I think that Meyer will revert back to type in selecting useless bulls players. This is the team that I predict he will select. 1 Beast 2 Bismarck 3 Jannie 4 Estebeth 5 Kruger 6 louw 7 Alberts 8 Vermeulen 9 Du Preez 10 Steyn 11 Habana 12 De Villiers 13 JJ 14 Bason 15 Kirchner
lolz, i was just thinking about the Boks and what team they could assemble and then i read this, albeit a more tounge and cheek version, like my title on the thread i started, :oP
Fourie use to a world class player until the quarter finals in the last World Cup. He just never to be the same player he was back in 2007. Not sure if it was shoulder injury or what. I have been really disappointed with pienaar. I thought that he would grab the bok jumper with both hands.
we still have a chane in blooding some really good youngsters. There have been some stand out players in the last couple of junior world cups.
i agree having both Alberts and Vermeulen in the same back row is simple not good enough. I would select Louw, kolisi and Vermeulen.
My team would be
1 Beast (Coenie on the bench)
2 Bismaark ( Strauss on the bench when it gets looser in the last quarter)
3 Jannie (no one else is better yet). Not sure who would be on the bench.
4 Estebeth
5 Flip Van DerMerve (more mongrel than Kruger) Lood deyaager on the bench,
6 louw (ideally Brussouw on the bench, but not in the squad). I would also be interested in trying Laberschagne as an openside flank. He is very mobile with a high work rate and would be a good impact player.
7 Alberts (I would sub him around the 55th minute with Cotzee). Starting Alberts to intially keep it tight and win the battle upfront.
8 Vermeulen (decent line out forward)
9 Pienaar. A quality player that has all of the attributes required for an international scrumhalf. Although these days does not snipe around the rucks when the option is on.
Sometimes people compare his performance to other players in the curry cup instead of against the top international teams.
Du Preez on the bench. Who knows maybe he the rest away from top flight rugby has got his conditioning back to where it was. Sometimes these players are not actually past their best, it is just a case of overplaying and poor conditioning which causes loss of form.
10 Steyn (I would start with Pat Lambie, but either way I would give him game time)
11 Habana
12 De Villiers (Jan Serfontein on the bench)
13 JJ (Robert ebersom on the bench)
14 Bason (substiuted around the 55th minute and bring on Serfontein at inside centre)
15 Willie Le Roux ( Kirchner on the bench)
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Some influence has been exerted on this team to select players of colour when decisions between 2 players are close.
Also influence to players allready in the squad, except when the alternatives are much worse
My game plan would be to start with a bigger pack to initially keep it tight and dominate up front.
Less up and under kicks, but instead more carries by the forwards to win the trench warefare and soften up the opposition.
We have louw and Vermuelen on the pitch whom are both effective at retaining possesion at the break down, so keeping the ball in hand and just getting the forwards to run at the opposition to apply pressure is a viable option.
This approach should get the opposition to give away penalties- so that we can get shots at goal and also setup linout drives in the opposition 22.
No ball in the opposition half must be kicked away, and kicks from. within our half must go directly out(when in our 22) or for the corners when out of our 22.
A few up and unders are fine but not to overuse especially not on first phase.
Lots of collisions when keeping amongst the forwards, and initially only going wide when good oppertunities arise.
Out pacey backs would run when overlaps appear or when exploiting turnovers and mistakes by the opposition.
Around the 55th minute when the game gets looser I would replace some of the heavier players like Alberts and Flip Van Der merve for more mobile players.
Substitute Bismaark for Strauss- Bismaark is better on the ground as a fetcher with Strauss more mobile on the park.
Assuming we have the advantage at this stage Strauss will make a positive impact with his carries and open play.
Then bring on Jan Serfontein who is a better distributor than Jean, move Jean to 13 and JJ to the wing.
The last 25 minutes when players tire out and with fittter more mobile forwards on the field then a more expansive game would be played.
Initially it would be Springbok forward power play to soften up the opposition and tire them out from all the tackling.
I think with a big pack overdoing the kick and chase just tires our forwards out. It also gives possesion back to the opposition when not implemented correctly. Plus the opposition are just waiting for the up and unders and have their back 3 , really far back.
I would like to see more keeping the ball in hand with the forwards to make the opposition do the tackling.
Sharkbok, I like some your backline options. Just not sure what to do with our wingers. Meyer might put willie on the wing and sideshow at the back.
Do you guys think its to early to Start with jan?
I'm thinking of 9 Pienaar, 10 Steyn, 11 Habana, 12 Jan, 13 De Villiers, 14 JJ, 15 Willie
Kingcorn I think this is probably going to happen with Jan starting at some point.
He needs to make the position his own like he did at the Bulls. By starting on the bench and then coming one and outplaying Jeans performance at 12.
Then it is going to be a case if JJ needs to move to wing or if Jean needs to be dropped to the bench.
With JP gone we do not have a world quality winger on the right hand side, but JJ may give use that.
Having JJ at 13 is also good because it gives pace to the midfield which has been lacking in years and gives our backs overall more speed on the field
Like your thinking Sharkbok and I am sure its not far off Meyers own thoughts as well.
When guys like Du Toit and Malherbe get fit and the bulle 7 Jaque Du Plessis come on stream there is one heck of a pack building up. I can foresee wee mcaaaaw retiring earlier than planned!
Yes Beeno, taking the approach of only playing light weight loose mobile forwards is not the way South Africa plays the game.
We need strong ball carriers that are also good at recycling ball. Players like Louw and Vermuelen are strong carriers but also good on the ground to retain possesion in the tackle area.
As long as we can hold onto to the ball, if we initially keep it in the forwards our heavier/stronger pack can dominate the advantage line.
We do not need 3 fast mobile forwards because initially we are going to run it up through the middle and not take it wide until we have earned to right to go wide.
We need our forwards to run onto the ball at speed and take on the opposition, with quick reycles for multiphase play-
The likes of Bismaark, Ezebeth, Alberts, the Beast and Flip need to dominate the line of advantage. It is possibale to pull one down, then another, then another- but if the recycles are quick we will become to relentless and create quick go forward ball.
I see that Meyer has employed a Scotland rucking coach. Scotland gave us a hard time at the rucks this year like they often do, and we need to improve our recycling of possesion.
No need to kick up and unders or play it too far wide, rather take it through the middle with the forwards until the gaps start opening up on the outside when the opposition begins to tire
Mendoza last year was an example of a bad loose forward combination
Sharkbok, I hope you would not even consider that pack against the AB's? All they would have to do is put the ball out and SA would never see it again. Alberts, Vermuelen, Flip are not great line out jumpers. Add Etzebeths strength to that and we have a pack full of lifters but no jumpers. We would see Sam Whitelock, and Kieran Read going up in front of us all day long.
We need a big pack but we also need to play to our strengths which has been the line outs. If we are going to play overseas based players then I dont see why Bekker is not there barring he is fit to play? I dont believe you need a line out full of jumpers but just 2 really good jumpers with 1 guy who can do a good job is great. We dont have the riches we once had in Bakkies, Victor, Schalk, Smith and Spies (all of whom can win you lineout ball and all on the park) but lets at least have 3 options.
Whenever the Boks play the AB's, we always "look" like we are dominating in the first 15. We go out there balls to the wall. They know that they can not match our size from 1 to 15 usually so they just absorb, play for territory and wear us down until passion settles and its skill taking over. Why would we want to hand back any advantage by removing one of our strengths?
The best attacking ball often comes from the line outs and we need all the help we can get in the attacking dept!
Boklogic agreed on the lineout. It is our best attacking platform to get penalties for goal and also setup mauls in the oppostion 22 for tries.
I was selecting players only from those within the current squad.
I did mention a few outside the squad as ideal candidates, but only when the option within the squad is much worse.
I think Bekker is the best lock in world rugby and ideally he would partner Ezebeth with a fit Pieter Steph Du-toit on the bench as an impact player.
Ezebeh is actually very good in the lineout and may be one of the best jumpers in the world. He can play both lock positions and their was talk of moving him from 4 to 5, which may well happen at the Stormers now that bekker is gone.
I did not want to play Kruger who is a lineout specialist hence my selection of Ezebeth in his position, and then Flip as the enforcer lock.
Kruger could be good towards the end of the game as he is looks more like a looseforward than a lock and perhaps more mobile than Flip.
Vermuelen is good in the lineouts, Alberts is ok and flip is ok but will be playing at the front of the lineout.
I think this is still a strong team for the Lineouts, the only option within the current squad is leaving out Flip for Kruger.
Clevermike
The difference between my plan and that of Meyers is that we do not kick the ball away all the time.
This is the big difference.
It is about cutting down on the up and unders and aimless kicks.
Instead we hold on to the ball more and run if up more with the forwards.
As long as we can retain possesion we will get more penalties than we give away.
This will give a platform to kick for poles and also setup lineout drives in the opposition 22.
We keep bashing it up until an overlap happens on 3rd phase, 10th phase or what ever.
Then we can spin it down the backline and get our fasts ouside backs into the game, or the opposition will concede a penalty.
Vermuelen and Alberts are very strong carriers, amongst the strongest in the SuperXV.
The key area to my plan is that we hold onto possesion and to do this we should have a back up fetcher on the bench. Probably Brussouw or maybe even Deon Fourie.
Clevermike
The stats of average runs can sometimes be misleading.
These should be taken into context with how many runs, and also what run was the highest.
A winger can have a very high average of metres gained, but only make 6 carries per game.
A player like Vermuelen could carry the ball 30 times in one game and most of the time it is in traffic, but it often takes 2 players to pull him down.
These are pick ups and carries.
Pick ups and carries are typically done in high traffic zones against opposition forwards.
Often these only gain 1 metre at a time or even less, but as long as the ball is made available for the next carrier to pick it is still useful because it pulls in opposition players.
This will pull down the average of his top runs that are say 5 metres gained.
If we can recycle quickly our strong ball carriers can do the pick and carry over and over.
Even if it is only gaining one or two metres, pull in defenders, then pick up and carry, then pull in more defenders.
Eventually one of the pick ups will beat the first line of defence, then it is fast go forward ball.
This can either be taken wide, or a strong ball carrier can run onto the ball at full speed.
That is the problem and how many teams are able to blunt our approach.
We need to recycle quickly so that are strong ball carriers can run on to the ball at full speed.
Try tackle Alberts, Bismaark, Bruno, Vermuelen and co down when they are running onto the ball at full speed- sometimes it will happen but the tackler will struggle to pick themselves up to keep doing it.
Great comments above but they are all in vein. Morne Steyn will aimlessly kick every ball he recieves leaving our sluggish forwards chasing around trying to get the ball. Get ready to watch DUMB ASS Bok Rugby again.
Meyer must go immediately !!!!!!!! Dont pass begin and collect a cent. Voetsak.
Boklogic I think most of your comments are spot on but I would really like to see the boks move away from channel one rugby. It is great that Meyer is focussing on the breakdowns as I feel that our big boys tend to be a bit clumsy at the break down, the come in really hard to destroy the defending player but in the porcess creat a pile up, leaving the 9 to dig for the ball. I like the way the crusaders and chiefs play, they have the skill to move the ball around and always make sure that when they make contact that they have enough players to secure the ball but also not over comitting. I think our teams often get caught up in the middle leaving now attacking platform which leads to Steyn kicking the ball out or going for up and under.
I don't mind kicks but as long as we can catch man and ball. Often the kicks are to long and it just results in a ping pong game.
I also think that in having two instinctive kickers in the team will not help either, both Steyn and Du Preez loves kicking the ball away.
I just wish the boks evolved their game play to suite players such as Hougaard. I would really to see our 9's attack the forwards to keep the guessing. Joost was the master at this.
Here is my starting line up
Khune,
Masilela
Mkhwanazi
Gumede
Tshabalala
Furman
Phala
Chabangu
Mathebula
Parker,
Manyama
