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Who can catch the All Blacks after their unbeaten year? Article in The Roar

Started by Just_win16 REPLIES509 VIEWS· 27 Nov 2013, 01:34
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Nov 2013, 01:34
#1
27 Nov 2013, 01:34#1

On Sunday morning, my cousin rang me and asked if it was true the All Blacks had just beaten Ireland on time. “No Jim,” I told him, “that was the Kiwis beating England in the Rugby League World Cup semi-final.”

We chatted about how unlikely it was the All Blacks would need an over-time try and conversion to defeat Ireland.

On Monday morning we chatted again and I suggested Jim was something of a clairvoyant in that he seemed to know something all the experts and supporters of the All Blacks and Ireland couldn’t possibly know.

There was something thrilling, in any case, with the way the All Blacks toughed out a victory in over-time against an Ireland side that was fired up, played strongly and believed in the seeming unbelievable – that they would defeat the All Blacks and kill off their prospects of the first unbeaten season in the professional era (starting in 1996) by a leading international rugby team.

On the All Blacks’ northern hemisphere tour, they toughed out a victory over France by forcing a penalty from a scrum on their own tryline with minutes left to play.

They were behind England on the hour at Twickenham and then rolled over them in the last 20 minutes by breaking down England’s lineout.

And against Ireland they came back from a 22-7 deficit at halftime to score after the full-time whistle had sounded.

Breaking down Ireland’s lineout was an important ingredient in getting the momentum to win what looked like being, with only minutes left to play and Ireland in possession well inside the All Blacks’ half, the unwinnable Test.

You could argue from all of this, with the All Blacks emulating the escape tricks of Houdini, the All Blacks are coming back to the field.

But there is a counter argument that you could make, too. And that is the measure of a team is the Tests it wins when everything suggests they shouldn’t win.

A lesser team, a team without the courage and wit, might have lost all three of these Tests.

Knowing how to win, and the unbeaten year by the All Blacks suggests they certainly know all about this, is a key factor in ongoing success.

Take Ireland, for example. They have never beaten the All Blacks, even though they’ve played Tests against them since 1905.

They had the All Blacks at their mercy and Jonathan Sexton missed an easy penalty to give them an 8-point lead with minutes left to play.

But even after that miss, they had chances to seal the victory.

With time almost up they started to do one-up hits to soak up time. The referee Nigel Owens warned them about sealing off the ball-carrier as he plunged to the ground. Sure enough, they sealed off a runner.

Penalty! The All Blacks had to make a series of plays from their own 10m line to score and convert to win. They did this with brilliant, steel-nerved and ruthless running and passing.

Ireland did not know how to win and the All Blacks did not know how to lose.

Back in 2001, Ireland were in a similar situation with a big lead at halftime. In the second half of the Test, the All Blacks steam-rolled Ireland into defeat.

The man of the match was an All Black playing his first Test, Richie McCaw.

The latest Ireland-NZ Test, though, reminded me more of the 2003 Rugby World Cup semi-final between the All Blacks and the Wallabies.

In both these Tests, the All Blacks presented an astonishingly successful series of previous Tests.

In both Tests, too, the All Blacks kicked short from the kick-off, lost the catch and then endured a long sequence of defence on their try line.

In both Tests, too, the All Blacks gave away a crucial and soft long intercept try.

The difference was that in 2003 the All Blacks did not have the mental strength to come back to win.

A decade later, the All Blacks had this mental strength. It is a belief that is going to make them a most formidable side for the next two years at least.

There are three things I look for in teams with pretensions to greatness.

The first is whether they have several great players in the side. Second, whether there is potential for further growth in the side. And third, whether the culture of the side is deep enough to allow for greatness in the side.

The culture of the current All Blacks is clearly strong and vibrant and creating a self-belief in all the players there is something special happening to them and the team.

The last pass of the Test was a hand-off in the Sonny Bill Williams manner by the new hooker Dan Coles to the substitute centre Ryan Crotty.

The All Blacks have used, according to Richie McCaw, about 40 players this season. Many of the new players will be established stars in RWC 2015.

As for great players, in Richie McCaw, Kieran Read and Dan Carter the All Blacks have three players who are not only giants of New Zealand rugby but among the greatest players to have played anywhere and at any time.

I was reading an interesting account of the All Blacks’ culture, ‘Legacy’ by James Kerr, that the senior players always clean up the team’s dressing room after Tests.

People more expert than me in mind games theory will be able to give a deeper analysis of what this gesture means, but to me it suggests a humility about their role as custodians of the All Blacks jersey and traditions that runs counter to the notion they are an ‘arrogant and cheating’ side.

I would suggest the Springboks, with 10 Test victories this season out of 12, with the two losses to the All Blacks, have had an outstanding year, too.

The Springboks look to be a much stronger side than the team that won RWC 2007. But whether that will be the case in RWC 2015 is another matter.

The problem with the Springboks is too many of the champions of Rugby World Cup 2007 have been recalled to the side.

The young players who played so splendidly in The Rugby Championship have been flicked on and the old champions have been brought back.

I also think Morne Steyn, iron hands at fly half, will be as much an impediment to the Springboks’ ensemble game, which they can play when they are a mind to do so, when he is leading the attack.

His first, second and often third option is to kick the ball away.

And where do the Wallabies stand in all of this?

Like England, they have a youngish side, that is struggling to find a style that works with the skills and attitude of the players on the squad.

The return of David Pocock, for instance, who I reckon will be used generally ahead of Michael Hooper as the number 7, will stiffen up the Wallabies’ defence and breakdown work.

Scott Higginbotham will give some speed and mongrel to the number 8 position. This will mean Ben Mowen can shift to his best position at breakaway.

The backs, too, have got a lot of potential growth in them as a unit, with the centres Matt Toomua/Tevita Kuridrani giving some strength and explosiveness to the Wallabies in the middle of the field for the first time since Stirling Mortlock and before him, Daniel Herbert.

Israel Folau is a try-scorer and terrific under the high ball.

The Wallabies have the chance to end the season with some momentum if they beat Wales (as they should) early on Sunday morning EST.

A victory will mean four straight wins and momentum, finally, going into 2014.

England will have a chance to show whether their young team is up to being a contender in RWC 2015 when they tour New Zealand next June. 

Sir Clive Woodward, the coach who built the greatest and most successful England side that won RWC 2003, makes the point England are too restrictive in their back play to have any pretensions to becoming a great side.

I think this is right, and it applies as well to the Springboks who (unlike England) have the back line talent but lack the imagination to unleash the devastating runners they have to destroy the defences of their opponents.

This bring us back to the All Blacks. This year in 14 unbeaten Tests they scored 51 tries to 19; 454 points for and 239 against.

Have they peaked? I don’t believe so. And more importantly, the coaches of the All Blacks don’t believe so.

I would expect them to be better next year than they were this year. It is up to their opponents to make more progress than they have this season to head the All Blacks off.

If they don’t, the All Blacks bandwagon will roll on to RWC 2015. 


Spiro Zavos
, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Nov 2013, 01:39
#2
27 Nov 2013, 01:39#2
A good read.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2013, 01:40
#3
27 Nov 2013, 01:40#3
From Barnacle, who sums up the position......cant say I agree with all but its close:
'We had two losses against the team currently ranked number one, but the two losses don't tell the full story. The game against NZ in NZ, could have gone the other way had the referee not messed up so badly. Please note I'm not saying would have. There was the possibility. Then there was the Ellispark test where we were chasing the four tries (naively), without securing the win first. If we focused on the win first and only then looked for the fourth try, we probably WOULD have won that one. That is the only negative for me in terms of this season. Although I must credit them for being bold enough to attempt it. It means the belief is also growing.

 

Then we need to look at the rugby championship log to see that the Boks scored 203 points and conceded 117. The All Blacks scored 202 and conceded 115. One point in terms of points difference (87 vs 86). And that is how close we are in those terms, but the All Blacks just ahead, by a VERY SMALL margin.

 

If we look at the Year End Tour results, we will see that the All Blacks struggled a bit more to get their wins, while we've all been used to the All Blacks dominating against their opposition in the past on the EOYT. So, could it be that the All Blacks are on the decline? Are they getting tired and fatigued at this time of year? (Ou r old excuse).

 

There appears to be a trend and it seems to be favouring the Boks. But when we look at the season as a whole, we might just still be that one single point behind the All Blacks.... Or taking into consideration the trend and the EOYT results are we even? Or maybe just ahead?

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
27 Nov 2013, 01:51
#4
27 Nov 2013, 01:51#4
 The only nit-pick I have is that the boks score for was inflated by Argentinas flogging at the hands of the boks ,I do hope HM keeps Steyne though he makes a very good anchor as in weighing the boks down when the wind is in their sails !
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2013, 01:54
#5
27 Nov 2013, 01:54#5
Yep if Meyer keeps Morne will will continue to lag that one or two points behind the AB's
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 Nov 2013, 01:57
#6
27 Nov 2013, 01:57#6


Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 683 RE: Who can catch the All Blacks after their unbeaten year? Article in The Roar
November 26, 2013, 23:51:06  The only nit-pick I have is that the boks score for was inflated by Argentinas flogging at the hands of the boks ,I do hope HM keeps Steyne though he makes a very good anchor as in weighing the boks down when the wind is in their sails !
You do not have the balls to admit that you were not able to hand out the same kind of flogging to the Argies.............???????
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Nov 2013, 02:25
#7
27 Nov 2013, 02:25#7
 Ceradyne: what? And let it be said that the ABs are copy ing the Boks - we resisted the temptation 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 Nov 2013, 02:58
#8
27 Nov 2013, 02:58#8
 Hahahaha. Nice try.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Nov 2013, 09:35
#9
27 Nov 2013, 09:35#9
Cloudy, Lithuania won 18 consecutive games. We have a way to go yet
MO
MO(NH)Club Pro426 posts
27 Nov 2013, 15:24
#10
27 Nov 2013, 15:24#10
Ireland could not get the win but in 1978 Munster beat the All Blacks 12-0. After the game wing Stu Wilson said we were lucky to get Nil (only claim to fame ha)Great win on Saturday by a great team.
 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
27 Nov 2013, 15:31
#11
27 Nov 2013, 15:31#11
 Talking about teams lifting to beat the AB's......how can we forget that famous WC semi when the French came out and rang rings around an AB side who in the first half looked like they had the game in the bag and were heading to the final!!!!
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
27 Nov 2013, 15:40
#12
27 Nov 2013, 15:40#12
 Ceradyne le mole ,I could just be ungracious and say the ABS put on the points where it matters ,like when playing the boks .Whats the points difference there? Wardad trying not to pour salt in the wounds [ well not too much ! }
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
27 Nov 2013, 15:58
#13
27 Nov 2013, 15:58#13
 I've long time given up reading, Spiro. He is an expat Kiwi who hates the Boks. I remember reading his articles in the SMH, never had a decent thing to say about Bok rugby.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 Nov 2013, 18:10
#14
27 Nov 2013, 18:10#14

Wardad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 689 RE: Who can catch the All Blacks after their unbeaten year? Article in The Roar
November 27, 2013, 13:40:56  Ceradyne le mole ,I could just be ungracious and say the ABS put on the points where it matters ,like when playing the boks .Whats the points difference there? Wardad trying not to pour salt in the wounds [ well not too much ! }
Uhmm, you were the one who brought in the points difference issue. Fact is that we did better against Arg in our own backyard than what you did.

Having said that, a lot of what Barnacle (the post that Saffex quoted) said is true. The battle between the two sides (Springboks and ABs) were skewed and if you want to be brutally honest the gap between the Boks and the AB's is not as big as you chest beating bunch would like to believe.

I for one, hate this blame the ref BS that everybody is forever pulling out of the bag. I believe the ref is human and part of the game, just as the players are. We have this constant birching ans moaning about poor reffing but the players make more game-changing mistakes that refs can dream of. You just need to count the scrums, penalties and free kicks per game (which is nothing but mistakes by players) and compare that to the number of mistakes made by refs.

Now, to get back to what I wanted to say about the gap. Yes, statistically the AB are ahead but how far, if at all? We cannot undo history and what has happened has happened but we do sometimes have to look at what could easily have been, to get perspective of what has happened.

The Dunedin game had a huge impact on what the eventual outcome of the season was as far as the Boks and the ABs are concerned. Had that first yellow card not been awarded against Bismarck du Plessis, we would not have been without him in those vital minutes and most importantly, the second yellow would not have been a red card. Yes, I understand that the ABs were also down to 14 or 13 men at some stage but by that time the damage was done and furthermore the ABs losing those players were through their own fault and not through a mistake by the ref. Once again, I am not blaming the ref.

Had we won that match, which will never know for sure, we would have approached the Ellis Park test in a different way. I am not blaming anybody or Roman Poite. I am looking at what could have happened. In addition, despite being a HM fan, he and the team made a mistake for Ellis Park. They had the wrong approach to the game. They decided to chase after those four tries from the word go, instead of going for the win first. Their strategy wreaked havoc with their, to that stage, solid defense and that made it possible for the ABs to score tries that they would otherwise probably not have scored. Shit happens and things could easily have been much different.

Enjoy your time at the top. It is well deserved and should be respected as such but do not for one  moment think that it was a walk in the park and do not accept it as a foregone conclusion that your guys are as invincible as you think.


HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
27 Nov 2013, 19:56
#15
27 Nov 2013, 19:56#15
 Ceradyne, please, "do not accept it as a foregone conclusion that your guys are as invincible as you think" that's not our job to think that, that's your job and you're doing it very well ! LOL
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
27 Nov 2013, 20:02
#16
27 Nov 2013, 20:02#16
 Denny, Spiro is of Greek origin and I think he is an Australian resident.

Interesting that you should mention the 1999 RWC Semi-Final - this is Part of the reason why I detest Justin Marshall as a player. Lomu scored all the ABs tries in the first half - count the number of times Justin ensures Lomu gets the ball in the 2nd half - whether his decision making in the 2nd half was conscious or subconscious, I am not sure.
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
28 Nov 2013, 03:20
#17
28 Nov 2013, 03:20#17
Lol. At Denny.  Yup, that French game is quite memorable but I prefer the RWC match where the chest beating limp Boks were man shamed by a tepid Wallaby team.  Most embarrassing moment of that tournament had to be when Hollywood Heirich faked a heart attack after getting a light love tap from the Samoan Fullback.  
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