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FORUM / RUGBY /  Who should be no 1 flyhalf theis EOYT

Who should be no 1 flyhalf theis EOYT

Started by clevermike11 REPLIES238 VIEWS· 19 Oct 2013, 23:28
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:28
#1
19 Oct 2013, 23:28#1

After a campaign of six months of Mozart comprising of often mythical castigation  of Lambie -  he proved today that he is really at this stage our top flyhalf choice - especially taking into account the debacle of  Morne  in the Ellis Park Test.   The back up should come from Catrakillis and Goosen - who shows signs today that he is still a real option in future.

 

The player that was useless today was Jantjies and it was not surprising that he was replaced early today - showed nothing  in attack or defence and the Lions backline in fact was better when Boshoff moved to the flyhalf position.  

 

So for flyhalf we are down to three candidates - Lambie, Catrakillis and Goosen.  The order is likely to change after Goosen gets some more playing time.

 

It would be a huge relief if we are last rid of the robotic and useless Morne Steyn - hope Meyer sees it that way too. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:40
#2
19 Oct 2013, 23:40#2
What campaign....the one where I showed Morne gained more ground, beat more defenders per run and made more clean breaks than Lambie? Seems to me thats just telling the truth.
I was happy to see  Lambie step forward and take charge. I admired his spunk as a young player......his tackling in his first test against NZ and his kicking on the YE tour. But face it, he was playing like a guy who didn't want to make mistakes....all year. My guess is the coach told him he was backing him and to go for it. If that was the case it snapped him out of his funk.
But let's not declare victory based on a break past a flank and a few chip kicks. Let's see if it all works out next week.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:53
#3
19 Oct 2013, 23:53#3

Mozart

 

You never based you line breaks and tackle breaks on anything but your selective imagination.  After you made the comparison between Morne and Lambie I went to the trouble to check the ESPN Scrum, stats for the first 8 rounds of Super 15 and found that your information is fictitious.   In fact throughout all those games Lambie was ahead of Morne in most categories relating to attacking rugby except at goal kicks - where Morne was successful in 80% of the kicks and Lambie in 75%.

 

So your comparisons were not based on fact - but on the normal discredit program of Mozart.      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Oct 2013, 00:09
#4
20 Oct 2013, 00:09#4
So if I prove you wrong, will you apologize and stop inventing your facts....yes or no?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Oct 2013, 00:21
#5
20 Oct 2013, 00:21#5

Obviously I do apologize when I am wrong - I don't try and wiggle myself out of the situation like you do.  I checked the first 8 matches each of Morne and Lambie played in and did not find it necessary to check other facts as well.

 

Just one thing though - meters gained is not significant because flyhalfs often fall back to cover kicks - run meters and then kick in return - that means really nothing in the gaining of meters over the gain line - where attackers are beaten or lines are broken.   Those two are the real issues  as to the value of a flyhalf in attacking rugby.  Meters gained is in that way not really of value to the team - unless the recovery is followed by a backline attack - but Morne never does that - he merely kicks after running around 10 or so meters with the ball.      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Oct 2013, 03:00
#6
20 Oct 2013, 03:00#6
Tell you what Oom I can see from your last  sentence that you simply intend to make excuses when I show you Morne made 25   per cent more per run.....beat more tacklers per run.....made more clean breaks. So I am not going to bother....you should though....but do the whole season. If you knew anything about sampling, and the normal probabilty distribution you'd know that's not a valid sample. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
20 Oct 2013, 03:17
#7
20 Oct 2013, 03:17#7
Lambie did look good today. He started the season well but fell apart for the Sharks as the season progressed. He was not dictating play and the 2 best attacking performances by the backline in SuperXV was when Lambie did not play at 10.
Perhaps the end of the John Plumtree era as coach was a positive thing. No disrespect to Plumtree he was an excellent coach for the Sharks, but sometimes a change is good especially if the next coach is also of the top level. 
Plumtree had a great run and was one of the most successful coaches for the Sharks ever, but change can also be good. Apart from the Sharks recruitment efforts going into the media for Plumtree to hear that he was no longer needed, it was all positive stuff.
At least the Sharks honored the verbal agreement of a contract extension from the former CEO,  so Plumtree got a well deserved payout and must be financially well off from his contract being terminated.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
20 Oct 2013, 03:27
#8
20 Oct 2013, 03:27#8
 1. Goosen 2. Lambie 3. Morne Steyn 4. Patrick Catrikilis
Goosen is for me the best South African flyhalf I have ever seen. I just hope that he overcomes his injuries. He needs to bulk up like Jean Devilliers did when he was young to take contact standing more straight up.
 I think he should be start for the Boks so if he is injured at least it is a bok level, and not on the lower levels like Curry Cup, SuperXV 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Oct 2013, 04:08
#9
20 Oct 2013, 04:08#9
Two excellent posts SB, I'm not sure of your pecking order, but your logic is impeccable.....if that's not too many pecks!  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Oct 2013, 06:16
#10
20 Oct 2013, 06:16#10

 Mozart

 

Why don't you just concentrate on "beat more tacklers per run.....made more clean breaks."     Those are the crucial issues - because the meters gain is not really a true value norm - unless it is meters gained over the gain line and that is not clear from the ESPN stats.   I will give you an example - before Taute was injured - he had the most beneficial meters gained stats of virtually all full backs in upper 15 - because he gathered balls kicked at him and ran with it long distances before he got tackled or kicked the balls himself.    OK - you can say Taute played at full back and Morne at flyhalf - but Morne's playing style often enough allows for -

 

*   making so-called strategic kicks; and

 

*   falling back to cover return kicks together with the wings and full back.

 

He often enough receives the return kicks and run some meters before kicking again.  If you have not noticed that in his playing style you must be kidding.   That type of play - makes the meters gained very suspect and really affect the value of meters gained negatively - so stick to the following and I will be happy to accept those as value measures and make the necessary apologies you seek:-

 

*   Line breaks affected

*   Defenders beaten

*   Loss of possession

*   Conversions

*   Missed Conversions

*   Tackles made

*   Tackles missed

 

Those certainly are enough to test the value of the respective two players comparing them to each other.

 

 

   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Oct 2013, 07:22
#11
20 Oct 2013, 07:22#11
Continue  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Oct 2013, 15:55
#12
21 Oct 2013, 15:55#12
Morne should not go on tour at all..........our best 10's are Goosen and Lambie and both are fit...........forget useless Morne and let Bok rugby progress  
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