Who should be the Springbok flyhalf

I really think that a flyhalf should have some qualities relating to the number 1 requirement and that is BALL SENSE - which includes the ability to read games and to decide which option would be to the best advantage of the team when getting the ball.
That basic requirement cuts out the Steyns - both are poor decision-makers and mostly poor executors as well.   Insofar as attacking the game line they are failures as well.   Morne basically never attacks the game line and Fat Fransie is the opposite - he attacks - is mostly unsuccessful and is guilty of ball hogging.    Both the Steyns are also sub-standard defenders.
Lambie seems to be out of form and it could be that he is not happy with the Coetzee game plan, but could still be regarded as a candidate.
So basically there are three primary candidates and those are  Pollard - who has had virtually no rugby this year and it is an unknown factor after a very long injury lay-off.   WE will have to see how he performs next year.
The other two candidates are Goosen and Du Preez - of which I believe the better option is Goosen.  
So at this stage I think the ratings should be as follows:-
1   Goosen2   Du Preez3   Lambie4   Jantjies5   Du Plessis6   Fransie Steyn7   Morne Steyn
When Pollard comes back the above could change,

Wow!,It's a sad state of affairs isn't it?The whole Bok performance was toothless. One thing is for certain is we are NOT spoilt for choice.For me it has to be Goosen.  

Goosen must certainly start for the remainder of the tour, and be the incumbent for 2007. He has proved in France that he has developed his game after losing confidence with injuries. He is also in form for the Boks this year scoring tries. (in a team coached by Tootsie).
He is the most all rounded ten we have. He has a kicking game, a running game and passing game. He is the fastest runner- and has the most utility back experience to slot into broken play and counter attacks. 
Surely the revolving Delande must be dropped for the inform Rohan. This combination could offer allot on attack.

What about Schoeman?
Tian Schoeman (Gallo Images)

 Willie Le Roux

 Yeah that is your main problem, selections. No real obvious ten. You must hate NZ. Having Three World Class Tens to choose from lol. And having now the worlds best as an incumbant in Beaudan Barrett. With SA not even having one. But yeah I well say Goosen. Janties was great for the Lions, but he is not International standard. He showed that when Barrett outclassed him in the Super Rugby Final. Pollard is prob your man going forward, when he comes back.

Another poor decision by Coetzee could cost Lambie his international career.
He should never have been brought in so soon after that collision with Stander. We all saw how long it took him to regain his health.
Just plain stupidity.
We are definitely in need of a decent 10 and right now I don't think we have any alternative but to test Goosen and Du Preez out properly. 
We already know that Fats Fransie isn't an option so it reduces the list to less than a handful.
I agree with you, Mike. Goosen seems to be the best candidate at the moment. He deserves a proper shot.

Lambie is not an international quality no.10. End of story! He has had 50+ caps as a springbok, and he is yet to have a memorable performance. People can blame coaches and whatever else, but if a player has not been able to stake a claim in more than 50 attempts, he is not good enough. Time to send him out to and keep him in the Currie Cup and Super Rugby pasture. 
Goosen is the best of what is available on tour, but he is NOT the long term answer. Please, let us not fool ourselves. In short, Pollard is our only hope, and we can only gauge his form next year. If he is not the player he was then I'm afraid we are left with an empty cupboard. We can then only hope for some young up and coming hero.  

Goosen will be fine against Italy and implode against Wales. No player lost more possession in the RC and his tackling stats were abysmal as well. But suddenly he is the answer....but gosh wasn't Jantjies the answer 3 months ago and then wasnt Lambie defintely the answer. Embarrassing stuff by the Bok fans, grasping desperately at straws and Goosen is just another straw.

 Hey Arsehole. It's best you not give us any more of your thoughts. 
I think we've about had enough of them.
We all saw how your "egg laying" lecture worked out ... so please ... hush up!!

 

 Pick a number any number...oh look it's Goosen....yeah let's give him a shot.

 So MudBlood ... you also in favour of Fats Fransie then?
Thought as much!

 No, if you scrolled upwards you would have seen my choice...how useless are you not to be able to read, low life!?

 Mozart
Tell me something - how come the Springboks scored tries when Goosen is in the backline - and not with others like Morne Steyn being around? 
How come when he started in a game he himself score tries or is credited with try assists if he is so poor a flyhalf?
Or are you still up to your norm that tryscoring is not important in tests and that aimless kicks are to be pursued at all costs?
 

 Duplicate



 

CC
Just a question about Lambie - incidentally I agree with you.   Lambie is now standing almost as far back in the pocket as is nrmal with Morne and even more noticeable with Fat Fransie.   Is it as a result of his injury or is he playing according to the rules of Coetzee - whom I sincerely believe is  as dumb as some of our members are?  . 

 Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaaaaaa!!
You were serious about that, MudBlood?
Haaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaaaaaaa!!!
Willie Le Roux ... the Bok 10???????????????
Perhaps it's best I include you in my request to Arsehole.
"Hush Up"!!!

 I don't know, Mike.
It's just strange to see him playing like this. I can only assume it's Coetzee messing with his natural game. 
We saw the same thing with Jantjies. A brilliant season that turned to sh!t the moment Coetzee came into the picture.
Lambie plays flat. He has all his life. He usually attacks space and is aggressive with ball in hand.
Now he looks like a Morne clone.
The sooner we get rid of this ignorant coach the better. 
Never thought I'd see anyone worse as a coach than Meyer. 



  

 It is strange that back when Jake was still the Coach, Coetzee was a late addition and the subsequent year the boks went backwards in terms of backline play. The year before they won the Tri-Nations but only succeeded to win 2 out of 4. However, they played attacking rugby and chased the All Blacks really close to earn a 2 bonus point win. 
After that the boks were up and down and only came back to reach their full potential when Eddie Jones joined them. 
All of sudden Butch James looked world class, Fat Frans was breaking the line at will and a made a big name for him at 12 but then when Eddie left we lost all of that momentum. 
So for me we need somebody like Eddie that can bring the most our of our back line players and knows the subtle nuances.
I thought the bok back line over the last couple of years had great potential. We only missed a successor to Fourie Du Preez and we would be set. 
No flyhalf can play under Coetzee

 
 KC
I tend to agree with you.   One has to consider how Coetzee used to require the Stormers to play in Super Rugby - he used a variety of flyhalfs who ultimately all failed.
I was watching Du Preez playing for the Barbarians and only after a few games under their coaching he blossomed and improved drastically.   Does that tell one a story as to what a proper coach can do with a player.  
I blame the coach for the Springbok backline problems - there is no way that a backline should be there to play like he is required them to do.  
So lets look at the flyhalfs in recent tests.   
All Blacks    
In that game something weird happened to players in the flyhalf position:-
Scrumhalf
The ball was kicked 5 times by the scrummie and passed 51 times.   The question arises who did they pass the ball to?   Morne Steyn handled the ball 21 times and Lambie 19 times - some of these handling occurred when the covered in the back to handle AB kicks.  
What is clear was that the ball were too often passed to forwards and not the backline - a classic scenario where the backline was not used as required,
Morne Steyn 
Morne Steyn handled the ball 21 times in that test and kicked the ball 11 times and passed the ball 10 times - he himself never attacked the gain line.   The 11 kicks basically all represented handing over possession on a platter to the AB's.
England
Lambie/Goosen
Lambie on Saturday handled the ball 16 times and Goosen 19 times.  The stats were as follows:-
Lambie
Kicked    -    6 timesPassed   -    6 timesCarried  -    4 times
Goosen 
Kicked    -    3 timesPassed   -    10 timesCarried  =    6 times
The question is where did the balls go to - bearing in mind that Paige passed the ball 57 times and De Klerk 21 times.   The one thing is clear the flyhalfs did not get the ball more  than half of the time - so it was another really bad scenario of not using he backline.  
If one look at the other tests as well this year - it is clear that backline usage was severely restricted and limited under Coetzee -  hence the sub-standard performances of our flyhalfs.  
  

Some of you are still farting from an overdose of baked beans and consequently farting like lost fart in a thunderstorm running down certain players...ie Lambie and promoting Goosen...bearing in mind he had to work with a slow and ponderous number nine...Goosen at least had a ball of fire (Faff) to feed like...yes he did not shine but NEITHER DID ANY BODY ELSE. A wild goose chase...the real culprit...dare I say it.. AC.

We as fans think only about our feeble and fickle pride (especially those whose accolade in life is SA citzenship to 1995 WC....with me it is no pride...I have nation pride but a rugby game is fun and lovely win but is not a world shattering accolate...that sort of honour does even apply to even PGA, Wimbleton or any sport WC win but to the real sacrifices of laying down your life in WW! and 2 and all the heros long before that.

I stick up for Patrick because he is not only a real man...but a very talented no 10 and 15...a brilliant footballer and sportsman...whose performance was negated by a uninspiring coach and a consequently slow and useless no 9. I also accept everybody's exception to his appointment...and I may also be wrong but I find petty criticism from prejudiced from new money plebs in Chicago distastefull...Michaelhouse has real gentlemen...Cambridge, Oxford and especially Harvard have the miss-fires of society.

 Kingcorn is right. You could have 7 of the most talented backs in the world but without a coach who has a clue all will fail. Having picked the best players available the Coach will have to pick a pack suited to an attacking game. He will have to put in place an attacking game plan and coach the necessary skills, a pass can beat a player, backing up, running good lines, offloads, chips, decision making, tactical kicking etc etcThis coach actually does not need even to be a raving genius. ALL TO COUNTRIES PLAY A SMARTER BRAND OF RUGBY WE DO. JUST COPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FINALLY UNTIL QUOTAS ARE KILLED YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT IT. ENDLESS ARGUMENTS ABOUT PLAYERS AND THIS AND THAT WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. THERE ARE HUGE ISSUES FACING SA RUGBY THAT NOBODY WILL DEAL WITH. 

Beens I think most of us who are not on meds can say that there is talent in 10's in SA...we can have our favourites based on feeble displays of SA performances but we have useless coaches that kill talent stone dead...weak coaches that bend or jump to public pressure...nothing wrong with PL or Goosen or Du Preez (he can come later)....WE HAVE THE TOOLS...but this retarted interferering, rascialist govt...worst than AWV in other direction in messing us up ...big time.

When I was young I was taught to fight... was not the biggest guy at school...I once had to take on the biggest bully and guess what I beat him...it's heart.

Beeno you are right in your context.

 Frans Steyn! I am a genius hahaha. Or Morne, any Steyn really. You cannot go wrong with a Steyn in the Number Ten Jersey. I think SA needs to pick a Ten and stick to that Ten. Chopping and Changing, need some consistency. 
1   Goosen (Solid)2   Du Preez (Solid)3   Lambie (Mud)4   Jantjies (Average)5   Du Plessis (Solid)6   Fransie Steyn (Crap)7   Morne Steyn (Crap)

 Seb if nz had coached our backline players etc you would see a huge difference.
No everything is setup to produce failure and I don't see it changing as the anc is an epic failure and it ripples through the system. 
It would be interesting to see what the Lions coaching staff could achieve given a scenario where merit selections were the order of the day. Give them two years and I think you would not recognise the Boks.As I said every top rugby side in the world looks far, far more polished than we do playing far more intelli gent and creative rugby. Just take tactical kicking for example.

'Lambie attacks the space' ......wehe!

 He has had more ball carries in the tests this year than Morne Steyn had in his whole career since 2012,    However, the game plan is rubbish and you apparently still think that the role of flyhalfs is to kick balls away aimlessly and inaccurately.  
A choice between Morne, Fat Fransie and Lambie - my vote goes to Lambie - that is if he is allowed by an idiot coach to play rugby and not Jake-ball.    

 Kleintjie Carel and Pollard.

 Klop & Lambie at fullback or bench utility .

Plank: "He has had more ball carries in the tests this year than Morne Steyn had in his whole career since 2012."

Actual Stats:
Morne:
9 June 2012 - 6 runs
16 June 2012 - 6 runs
23 June 2012 - 8 runs
(No need to list anymore, as the first match already had more runs than Lambie in 2016 (i.e. this year) at fllyhalf)

Lambie: (at flyhalf)
11 June 2016 - 0 runs
12 Nov 2016 - 4 runs

Or is it your opinion that 4 > any number, including, but not limit to 6, 12, 20...???

(If I include his matches at fullback, you can add another 13 runs, which makes the total 17 in four matches... still less than 20 in three matches...)

 Which also reminds me of this wonderful theory some had for many years....

"Just get rid of Morne and the Boks will beat everyone consistently and we will be number 1 in no time"

So how did that work out???

2012 up to 2014, when Morne was finally dropped as regular starter with the Aus test...
Win ratio: 76.67% (30 matches)

And as all of you know, this was the period when Morne was "atrocious" and "kicked all the balls away" "handing the possession to the opposition on a platter" while his "pathetic defence" led to so many tries being scored against us...

From 13 Sept 2014 onward
Win ratio: 50% (28 matches)

And that seems to be a fair comparison with 30 matches vs 28... But let's be nice and add 2 wins to the 28... Which makes it 53.3%

Oh, How I long to the days when we had a useless plodder at 10, that kicked everything away and never tackled. At least we won more matches then!

 The Trooof Fairy is back - defending Morne as per normal.   He is and always was a hopeless flyhalf with only one attribute - his kicking at goal.
I am delighted that the Stade Francais bench flyhalf seemingly has now been dropped from contention for Springbok selection.  He is bad for backline play - extremely bad - and is only beaten in that regard by one player - Fat Fransie Steyn. 

 Ou Maaikie seems better at avoiding the shots/facts than Muhammad Ali.

 Another ape at it again - I say Morne is a poor flyhalf and the apes/village idiots  join in to suggest otherwise.   However, Fat Fransie is even worse and they would argue about that as well.

 "Another ape at it again - I say Morne is a poor flyhalf and the apes/village idiots  join in to suggest otherwise. "

I haven't said a word you stupid old w@nker. I implied that you are dodging the issue. You have been talking k@k again and when confronted with the facts, you started twisting it around.............. again. Now let's try again and see if you have one honest bone in your body. Is this the truth, yes or no? :

"He has had more ball carries in the tests this year than Morne Steyn had in his whole career since 2012."

Comparing Ali and Tokkie, geez Vlag that's quite a thought. Sting like a butterfly, float like a bee.

 Mozart
Have you send a letter of appreciation about this sideshow to your stooges and fellow Morne hero-worshippers.  
Must admit  am wrong in one respect - he is not the worst flyhalf around,   Fat Fransie is even worse than Morne.   At least Morne is a better kicker at goal - but for the absence of ball sense and decision-making ability they are on par.    

Morne, the only Bok flyhalf to defeat an IRB top 3 team this year.

 mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 17962 RE: Who should be the Springbok flyhalf
November 16, 2016, 19:12:24

Comparing Ali and Tokkie, geez Vlag that's quite a thought. Sting like a butterfly, float like a bee.

Nah. I am only comparing the Comrade's ability to duck and dive wit Ali's bobbing and weaving. As you can see he is still avoiding answering the simple question. My money is on him not answering the question........... ever. Just like he has, to this day, never admitted that he was bullsh¦tting when he broke the story about Morne's move to PSG.

 Understood......and good luck with Tokkie admitting he was lying. Bent by age, bent by disposition.