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Who would be your Springbok backline?

Started by sharkbok28 REPLIES660 VIEWS· 19 Sept 2012, 01:24
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,301 posts
19 Sept 2012, 01:24
#1
19 Sept 2012, 01:24#1

 

What would your Springbok backline be?   Roar Guru

By biltongbek, 19 Sep 2012 biltongbek is a Roar Guru

Tagged:  Bryan HabanaRugby UnionSouth Africa rugby unionSpringboks

 

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Jean De Villiers of the Springboks is brought down by Jamie Roberts of Wales. AFP PHOTO / Marty Melville

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If you were the Springbok coach, what would your backline look like? Currently there are only a few experienced players who still look like they can do the business. It is really only Bryan Habana and JP Pietersen who look to be at international standard.

Halfback:
Fourie du Preez was once touted the best halfback in world rugby, but I consider him to be a kick and chase expert. His accuracy at box kicking, his work around the ruck and his ability to read the game are his strengths.

Francois Hougaard is a free spirited player who is at his best when he is allowed to do his own thing.

His passing is crisp when he doesn’t play under the shroud of an overbearing structure. He is strong in attack and defence and has quick pace off the mark but is not renowned for his kicking prowess.

Sarel Pretorius went to the Waratahs in hope of establishing himself as a match winner. However, for whatever reason he was not selected often and in the little time he did get to play, he made a big difference to the pace at which the Waratahs backline received ball.

His passing can at times be a little erratic, but an opportunist if there ever was one.

Ruan Pienaar, his pedantic play behind the ruck has been frustrating to say the least, however every time Goosen came in, Pienaar’s service was quicker, more crisp and more enthusiastic

There are a number of youngsters putting up their hands at Currie Cup level. Charl Mcleod has always been consistent in Super Rugby and is a solid player.

Nick Groom has been lighting up the Western Province backline. Michael Bondisio has looked good for the Lions, and then of course there is Piet van Zyl who did very well for the cheetahs.

Flyhalf:
Johan Goosen has shown promise much in the same way Naas Botha did all those years ago. He can do it all but perhaps his one weakness to work on is defence. But then Naas Botha himself was never a good defender.

Patrick Lambie’s strength is his versatility. He can play 10, 12 and 15 but I wonder if even he knows his best position.

Elton Jantjies has gone under the radar for the past few seasons, yet he has the ability to light up the Lions backline and his kicking accuracy stands back for no one.

Morne Steyn, the metronome, however his rhythm is gone and he is now more like a broken watch.

Left wing:
Bryan Habana has admittedly had a few poor seasons and his confidence seemed down.

However, in recent months he has shown a renewed appetite for scoring individual tries and is still a very solid defender with great positional play.

Francois Hougaard came onto the international scene by making a big impression against Wales at wing during the pool rounds of the World Cup but there is still some doubt as to whether he is a halfback or a winger.

Raymond Rhule is another promising player. He won the Junior World Cup with South Africa, and since then has made a good impression in the Currie Cup. However, he is still a little green and has more to learn before he becomes a complete player.

Inside centre:
Frans Steyn has been around for a while now, yet he is still only 25, he is big, strong and has a huge boot. He showed some deft skills during the English tour and created a few tries with his distribution, but has he lost pace?

Jan Serfontein was named Junior World Cup player of the year and really impressed with his hard running, try scoring ability and good vision.

Patrick Lambie, a player with vision and a willingness to attack the gainline, his distribution is never under question. However, like Hougaard, there is still some doubt as to his best position.

Outside centre:
Jean de Villiers has oodles of experience and in defence you will be hard pressed to find someone more able to organise. However, his distribution skills have been found out and he has lost pace. He no longer looks anywhere near as good as he did in 2007.

Juan de Jongh is a bit of a conundrum. There is no question he can hit the line and has the pace to get through, however his distribution is virtually non existent.

Of all the U20 players of the Junior World Cup, Paul Jordaan is the one player who has shown undeniably that he can step up against the big boys. He had a fantastic Super Rugby year and has shown all round skills.

JP Pietersen is most likely the best back line player in South Africa today, a shame his injury has stalled his scintillating form.

John Plumtree regularly used him at outside centre this year and it paid huge dividends, he has vision, is strong and always looks for the offload, you could do worse than him at outside centre.

Right wing:
Paul Jordaan played right wing for most of the Junior World Cup and was very impressive there, however at Super Rugby he was also employed at outside centre. He is a player full of running and a crowd pleaser who loves interplay with his backs. A very promising player.

Louis Ludick, since his move to the Sharks has improved immensely and is unlucky to not have had a call up yet.

JP Pietersen’s strength is defence. Who will forget his try saving tackles at the 2007 World Cup. He is a deceptively quick runner and is in great form. Where will he be most useful to South africa?

Fullback:
Zane Kirchner does not distribute, he doesn’t like to share, but he is a strong runner and has a good boot. However, the way Aaron Smith outfoxed him in defence will forever be a mark against him.

Patrick Lambie can make incisive moves from the back into the backline, however his defence is perhaps a little questionable.

Frans Steyn, is solid as a rock at the back and his big boot and calm exterior make him more suited to the role.

Jaco Taute has been in Meyer’s plans from the beginning, but an injury put an end to his season. He is only 21-years-old and has an air of Andre Joubert about him.

Final selections:
It is important to have some experience in the backline, it would be risky to select a backline comprising inexperienced youngsters. Therefore, my choices are conditional to having some experience mixed with the exuberance of youth.

Goosen must get and opportunity at 10. South Africa will not go forward unless they insert a 10 with running skills, vision and someone who is not afraid to take on the advantage line.

The main question is who to pair Goosen up with. Sarel Pretorius needs experience and Fourie du Preez on form might still not be the answer as he will most likely revert to the kick and chase game.

However he will take a lot of pressure off Goosen by controlling the pressure situations, he certainly has the ability to read when the attack is on as well. So perhaps adding him into the mix for a few matches could be the answer until Goosen has settled.

Outside Goosen it will be important to have an experienced player again, so Frans Steyn gets my vote. A playmaker is required outside of Steyn, so JP Pietersen with his defensive abilities and distribution could set the wings on fire.

Habana at left wing, Hougaard at right wing and Lambie at the back would make for better all round attacking ability and good ball skills. Habana is still there to organise the back three and defensively they should do well.

So my backline for next year is:
9. Fourie du Preez to phase Sarel Pretorius in
10. Johan Goosen
11. Bryan Habana
12. Frans Steyn
13. JP Pietersen
14. Francois Hougaard
15. Patrick Lambie.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,301 posts
19 Sept 2012, 01:25
#2
19 Sept 2012, 01:25#2

 Decent Team- Having JP at 13 would be excellant for attacking rugby. This backline I think could match even the All Blacks backline. With our forward domination, we could put on a serious score against the AllBlacks. This backline is filled with brains.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Sept 2012, 02:33
#3
19 Sept 2012, 02:33#3
My backline would be: 15. Lambie 14. JP 13. Taute 12. Frans 11. JJ 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard .......bench v/Zyl, Jantjies, Jordaan
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
19 Sept 2012, 03:21
#4
19 Sept 2012, 03:21#4

 Saffex your backline is horrible. Taute ahead of Jordaan at 13? Are you serious? Also you keep on with jj at left wing when Bryan is at present the best 11 in the world. Mind I do agree Hougaard being the Scrummie.

My backline:

15 - Jaco Taute

14 - JP

13 - Jordaan 

12 - Fransie

11 - Habana

9 - Hougaard

And my bench would havelambie, Ruan and Basson.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 09:09
#5
19 Sept 2012, 09:09#5
A mixture of some of the players mentioned above would probably be the answer. Francois Steyn showed touches of class against the All Blacks - but in the previous tests was poor. There are players knocking on the door - and he better be aware that unless he puts his best foot forward regularly - he may also be out of contention. However, in essence I think that the list should look like the following:- 15 - Taute or Lambie Wings as is 13 - Jordaan 12 - Steyn 10 - Goosen 9 - Van Zyl - Groom The Hougaard experiment as a scrummie has failed - despite what some members of this site says - and will not be repeated. McCleod is an absolute disaster (his passing game is wildly erratic) - he may not even be first choice scrummie for the Sharks must longer. Scrummie remains a problem and we must hope some youngsters come through. The problem also is that there are serious limitations on what scrummies may do and may not do according to the present game plan. An example is what happened on Saturday. The scrummie is expected to play in the mould of Fourie Du Preez and Pienaar did just that - nothing more, nothing less. Differnece is - he has a better read of the game than Du Preez ever had and can vary his game slightly taking that into account. What will be expected from a future scrummie - that remains the question? There are players knocking on the door and I believe the above better beware that they could be superseeded. Am impressed by Du Plessis, know Serfontein has class (but not given opportunities at present), same with Howard. Coming back to the bench I would prefer Rhule, Hougaard and Lambie or Taute - with Du Plessis knocking very hard on the door.
BB
Bok -Bef$KClub Pro216 posts
19 Sept 2012, 09:19
#6
19 Sept 2012, 09:19#6
15) Lambie 14) JP 13) Jordaan 12) Frans 11) Habana 10) Goosen 9) Hougaard
EK
EkPro1,464 posts
19 Sept 2012, 10:40
#7
19 Sept 2012, 10:40#7

 rugby 365:

Mitchell said he would overhaul the current backline and introduce a string of young, inventive players into the back division and employ a more expanse game plan.

“I, personally, would love to see a backline of … the development of [Francois] Hougaard’s pass, [Johan] Goosen, [Pat] Lambie, [Juan] De Jongh, JP Pietersen back, [Bryan] Habana and I think Jaco Taute and Francois Steyn could really have a crack for the fullback position,” said Mitchell.

“I think that side would have a far greater attacking intent, certainly have the ability to beat a player one-on-one. I’d like to see the outsides get a lot more ball and they can still maintain a good set-piece and a tactical kicking game, which has always been a great strength of the Boks,” he added.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 11:14
#8
19 Sept 2012, 11:14#8
What Mirchell said is probably near the mark - but for two problems. It took Hougaard 16 games as a scrummie and his passing and kicking game is still not acceptable. So how is he going to correct that? De Jongh - really? There are much more inventive and better attacking playes available than De Jongh - he is past tense. Rather give me Jordaan in that position. Jordaan has proven on Super 15 level that he is creative and can execute attacking play extremely well - whilst De Jongh showed zero in that regard.
EK
EkPro1,464 posts
19 Sept 2012, 11:25
#9
19 Sept 2012, 11:25#9

 Honestly Mike it's just the guys oppinion Mike. I really have no debate on the staff that you pick, as a few players available could do the job. So to me the suggestion from him has nothing to do with the players he picks, but more to do with his intent. Intent is the main consideration here.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Sept 2012, 16:51
#10
19 Sept 2012, 16:51#10
The best available backline was on the park at the end of the NZ test: Lambie, Hougaard, Jean, Steyn, Habana, Goosen and Pienaar. As things stand we can't improve on that combination. With decent coaching I think they can improve markedly. Going forward.....Lambie is fine. Hougaard should stay on the wing, he will not become a natural scrumhalf....he has played a lot of games at 9 this year and the progress has been slight. Jean is now 10 years into international rugby, this will be his last year I think. It's scary though, he is still our best centre, what does that say. Frans Steyn has made one break in 6 tests, he looks very ineffective already....I can't see him lasting at 12. Bryan has found a second groove, long may it continue. Goosen is Maud'Dib......and Pienaar is far from great, but the rest of our scrummies are provincial class only.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Sept 2012, 17:08
#11
19 Sept 2012, 17:08#11
Yeah Moz, lets keep the ineffective Pienaar at 9 and the equally ineffecyive Jean at 13 - really progressive selection that!!
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
19 Sept 2012, 17:26
#12
19 Sept 2012, 17:26#12
You guys have it all wrong! 9) Du Preez (Tactical specialist is what we have needed in this position this year. He is a master in this area) 10) Goosen 11) Habana 12) F Steyn 13) J Fourie 14) JP Pietersen 15) Lambie Bench (Backs only) Hougard, Pienaar, M Steyn.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 17:53
#13
19 Sept 2012, 17:53#13
Bluebok Du Preez coming back scares the hell out of me. He was OK up to 2007 - bar a few off games. After that he in a major way contributed to a disfunctional backline of the Boks. In any event - he is way past it and any further usage of him is no investment in building a team for the 2015 WC. If Meyer brings him back - no amount of new talent further out - would be allowed to function properly. His only tactic which partly work is tactical kicking - for the rest he perfected the Joost waving of the arms fiasco intorduced by Joost. Wave to the forwards so he can pass the ball to them - allowing the opposition to form up in defence. I personally think that was a Meyer idea that did not work. It was evident with the game last Saturday that Pienaar had to execute instructions and he played accordingly. He kicked away 6 balls - 2 very effective - 2 was releiving kicks in the Springbok 22 - 2 was totally ineffective and handed possession over to the All Blacks. Did not wave his arms for forwards to form up to receive the ball - a certain quality that make me write off a scrummie immediately as ineffective, slow and useless - but he kicked the ball back into the maul 4 times and afterwards passed it to the forwards. That represents the same arm waving scenario as mentioned earlier - and I despise it as well, Both tecchniques only leads to the next maul and the results were not spectacular at all. When Goosen came on the tactic changed and more balls went to the flyhalf than before. The passes were fast, accurate and effrective. Du Preez is to my mind a reflection of playing styles that has been discarded by other teams and retention is unthinakble and a move backwards insofar as I am concerned. Gve me a scrummie anytime that has an effective, fast and accurate service to the backline and that backline will perform better - don;t have a scrummie that is not effective in that respect. The link roll is more important than theatrics at the base of the scrum or maul.
EK
EkPro1,464 posts
19 Sept 2012, 18:41
#14
19 Sept 2012, 18:41#14

 

  mozart
 
Status: Senior player 
Posts: 1355 RE: Who would be your Springbok backline?
September 19, 2012, 14:51:31

.......... Goosen is Maud'Dib......

 

:)

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Sept 2012, 21:21
#15
19 Sept 2012, 21:21#15
A fictional redeemer ...Ek. No offence to any religious beliefs.
KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
19 Sept 2012, 21:29
#16
19 Sept 2012, 21:29#16
Maud? Hahahahahahaha! Dont you mean Muad'Dib? Bok backline: Lambie, JPP, Jordaan, F Steyn (one more chance), Habana, Goosen, Hougard. Finish and klaar!!!!!!! End of thread!!!!
US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
19 Sept 2012, 22:27
#17
19 Sept 2012, 22:27#17

Lambie offers nothing at test level, scarcely anything for the Sharks, in any position. Lambie is at best 6th/7th best fullback in SA and only just ahead of Jantjies at 10, both are nothing. The best and most complete fullback in SA has been Joe Pietersen. For a time it was a very difficult choice between he and Terblanche. The best backline, given players who are not available and assuming Goosen is test ready as a starter, is: 

15.Joe Pietersen
14.JP Pietersen
13.Juan de Jongh
12.Frans Steyn
11.Bryan Habana
10.Johan Goosen
09.Frans Hougaard

It really cannot get better than that but for Du Preez and Fourie.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 22:49
#18
19 Sept 2012, 22:49#18
The Cat Love your contribution again. Have you ever been right - I suppose never. Hougaard is NOT a scrummie - he had enough games in that position to overcome deficiencies and never had. His kicking game is diabolical - inclusive of way too many charged down kicks - mostly aimless and ineffective. His passing game is slow - often runs two or three steps before hie passes - putting Morne under pressure as well. In wet conditions such as in PE - he really was very, very poor. That was the reason why Meyer moved him to wing. I believe he is a natural and very good wing - definitely not a scrummie. They tried hard and persisted with him for enough tests - and I believe Meyer gave up on the efforts to convert him to a scrummie. Don't think Meyer would use him in that capacity again. Now for De Jongh - what a farce that one is. De Jongyh was a key component of the disfunctional and very poor Stormer backlin thar struggled to score tries this year and his contribution to attacking backline play was ZERO. He is a good defender - but otherwise worth very little to any team. A very bad choice when we look for attacking backline play, Wher did you dig that one up? Want to give us some furhter false reports on a player? Anyway - De Jongh is not any investment in the future. As stated earlier I am delighted that Gourie Du Preez and Fourie are not in the run anymore. We are dealing with the future here - not the past.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 22:49
#19
19 Sept 2012, 22:49#19
The Cat Love your contribution again. Have you ever been right - I suppose never. Hougaard is NOT a scrummie - he had enough games in that position to overcome deficiencies and never had. His kicking game is diabolical - inclusive of way too many charged down kicks - mostly aimless and ineffective. His passing game is slow - often runs two or three steps before hie passes - putting Morne under pressure as well. In wet conditions such as in PE - he really was very, very poor. That was the reason why Meyer moved him to wing. I believe he is a natural and very good wing - definitely not a scrummie. They tried hard and persisted with him for enough tests - and I believe Meyer gave up on the efforts to convert him to a scrummie. Don't think Meyer would use him in that capacity again. Now for De Jongh - what a farce that one is. De Jongyh was a key component of the disfunctional and very poor Stormer backlin thar struggled to score tries this year and his contribution to attacking backline play was ZERO. He is a good defender - but otherwise worth very little to any team. A very bad choice when we look for attacking backline play, Wher did you dig that one up? Want to give us some furhter false reports on a player? Anyway - De Jongh is not any investment in the future. As stated earlier I am delighted that Gourie Du Preez and Fourie are not in the run anymore. We are dealing with the future here - not the past. Thw last onw is Joe Pietersen - very disappointing in the last few Super 15 games and very, very poor on CC level. What happened to Kirchner - is he not in favour anymore?
US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
19 Sept 2012, 23:02
#20
19 Sept 2012, 23:02#20

de Jongh was a key component of the Stormers backine struggles? That truly is a laugh. He was the only one who tried to be productive ball in hand, in a team dragged down the gutter by Coetzee.  And Hougaard has been no worse than any other 9 in SA. He has more potential than any other 9 and we need to let him grow. Genia too was inconsistent with his kicking as late as 2011! You have absolutely no clue at all. And take note that this is Hougaard's first season as the Bull's starting scrumhalf. 

 Mike, you are the most deceptive, most clueless fool I have ever come across. I could tolerate that were you in the least bit honest, but even that is a stretch for you. You were blown apart on your Morne gaff, Du Preez gaff, Kirchner gaff. Your complete and utter lack of understanding of even the most basic principles of backplay is totally nonexistant. You bleat the most puzzling misuse of terminology you picked up from God knows where and waffle on aimlessly never reaching any kind of logical conclusion. Your assesments are wrong, your data is wrong, your recollection of past events has always been woeful and highly deceptive. Mike, please, do yourself a favour and sit on your hands. It's simply too much reading such drivel. I fact, there was a time when I suspected you were Allyphint, such was the ease with which I steamrolled over you. No more. 

Anyone else wants to comment on what I say, I'll read it, but never again from you.  

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
20 Sept 2012, 06:04
#21
20 Sept 2012, 06:04#21

9 r pienaar, 10 j goosen, 11 b habana, 12 f steyn, 13 jp pieterson, 14 f hougaard, 15 p lambie
20 j vermaak, 21 j taute, 13 jj englebrecht

while theres pleny of young superstars on the rising, u cant just put them all in, experience is a big must have for any team and as log as it dosent compromise the at5tacking and defnesive structures (like johnny smit), then they mus be included.
thats why jp pieterson, habana, piennar would have to step up as a kind of leadership group.

i would like to iclude the likes of jordaan and janties too, but theres enough youngsters in my backline as it is who IMO offer more in terms of utility factor, plus janties has areas in his game which needs addressed ASAP. hopefully he moves to WP cos they can help big time in the areas that janteis needs fixed.
 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Sept 2012, 08:50
#22
20 Sept 2012, 08:50#22
Sasu Just two observations about your comments. I do not think that moving Pietersen to 13 was really a success and there are serious disagreements on the issue whether he should play in that position or not. I would not like to see that though and have stated in the past my reasons for that. I do not think - that unlike in SA - where we see lots of New Zealand rugby competitions - you see the CC matches in SA. Engelbrecht's performance on CC level this year was sockingly poor and that can cost him in future squad selection. The other issue is Taute - he came back for about 20 minutes of rugby affter injury - handled the ball once and made a few tackles. Doubt it whether he would come into th picture this year. The bench should actually include him and Jordaan - since they can cover more positions than other players.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Sept 2012, 08:50
#23
20 Sept 2012, 08:50#23
Sorry - duplicion
MA
Marty70 Rookie56 posts
20 Sept 2012, 20:34
#24
20 Sept 2012, 20:34#24

My backline :

15 - Frans Steyn

14 - JP

13 - JJ Engelbrecht

12 - Jaco Taute

11 - Habana

10 - Goosen

9 - Pienaar

And my bench would have lambie and Willie le roux / Hougaart . On call Jordaan , Lional Mapoe and Sarel Pretorius.

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Sept 2012, 22:31
#25
20 Sept 2012, 22:31#25

"Requiescat

Status: Senior player
Posts: 1093 RE: Who would be your Springbok backline?
September 19, 2012, 20:27:49

Lambie offers nothing at test level, scarcely anything for the Sharks, in any position. Lambie is at best 6th/7th best fullback in SA and only just ahead of Jantjies at 10, both are nothing. The best and most complete fullback in SA has been Joe Pietersen. For a time it was a very difficult choice between he and Terblanche. The best backline, given players who are not available and assuming Goosen is test ready as a starter, is: 

15.Joe Pietersen
14.JP Pietersen
13.Juan de Jongh
12.Frans Steyn
11.Bryan Habana
10.Johan Goosen
09.Frans Hougaard

It really cannot get better than that but for Du Preez and Fourie."

Good back-line. You can even replace Joe with Aplon without actually weakening the team. If Jean have to be captain, I would try Fransie at 15, with Jean at 12. I know you don't like it, but I would give it a go all the same. I do however believe that Jean has passed his best and needs to retire sooner, rather than later. Had the cupboard not been so bare, I think he would have done so already.

BO
Bokkilla1Rookie30 posts
22 Sept 2012, 16:22
#26
22 Sept 2012, 16:22#26
My posts have been deleted due to extreme profanity. I love the Springboks and I apologise for being sheepish.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Sept 2012, 17:58
#27
22 Sept 2012, 17:58#27

@clevermike,

i know im in the minority with jp pieterson at 13 (but i think sharkbok agrees with me, lolz), but from what i have seen of jp playing in the No13, he has all the skills to make it work and i still cant help but think its only a matter of time, before that transition is made.

i also know that englebrecht hasnt been setting things a light in the CC, but his performance in 2011 really got me excited with his potential and i really believe he has a lot of value, especially if coached correctly. maybe we should send englebrecht to NZ for a season??? LMAO, :P

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Sept 2012, 17:58
#28
22 Sept 2012, 17:58#28

@clevermike,

i know im in the minority with jp pieterson at 13 (but i think sharkbok agrees with me, lolz), but from what i have seen of jp playing in the No13, he has all the skills to make it work and i still cant help but think its only a matter of time, before that transition is made.

i also know that englebrecht hasnt been setting things a light in the CC, but his performance in 2011 really got me excited with his potential and i really believe he has a lot of value, especially if coached correctly. maybe we should send englebrecht to NZ for a season??? LMAO, :P

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Sept 2012, 18:01
#29
22 Sept 2012, 18:01#29

@bokkilla,

the backs arent crap, but meyer does need to trun things around soon, cos he is hemorrhaging support big time.IMO meyer can do it, just a matter of when.

— END OF THREAD —

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