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Why are the SA Franchises Under-Performing in Super 15

Started by clevermike7 REPLIES252 VIEWS· 17 Apr 2014, 23:24
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Apr 2014, 23:24
#1
17 Apr 2014, 23:24#1

This is a topic that certain members of this site will have a real problem with because it goes against the grain of what they believe is the way to play the game.


The Boots & All penal inclusive of Mallett and Skinstad was discussing the the Super 15 thus far this year,   They claimed that while there were an advance in the performance levels of the New Zealand and Australian teams - the South African Conference teams have gone backwards from what they produced last year.


They mentioned a few issues that SA players are guilty of and among those are - 


*   running straight at the first defender - some of our players are habitual offenders in doing that;


*   senseless kicking away of balls - another habit of some players.   


In the second case they mentioned two extremes as an example.  Juan de Jongh being in space and then kick away two balls - one directly into touch  and the other directly into the arms of the opposition full back.


The whole problem relates to senseless and non-thinking play 0 so clear for all to see if they just wants to open their eyes and look at what our backline players in particular produce.


        

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
18 Apr 2014, 00:48
#2
18 Apr 2014, 00:48#2
same old, same old. 
Our backline players have the passing skills of loose forwards or sometimes worse.If the rauling maul was banned we would have more teams at the bottom of the table.Our forwards are expected to score most of the tries, and if they dont dominate the set piece and advantage line, the wheels fall off.
It is clearly a coaching problem that stems back to school days, most of our backline players have poor passing skills- the centres in particular are weak passers. A a result the teams do not develop running lines to give the ball carrier options to vary play. Then when getting to senior level, skills development involves spending more time in gym pumping iron and eating creatine.
A player like Frans Steyn will often take contact because their is no one running a good angled run into space, or dummy runners drawing defenders. His option is to take contact or pass to his outside centre who is running straight with his opposite number closing him down. The options are take contact or give a hosptal pass.
The Cheetas are the only team at the moment with an exceptional backline. Not sure if it their backline coach or just Willie Leroux being the catalyst. 
Once they get to senior level, skills training involves pushing weight in the gym.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Apr 2014, 01:49
#3
18 Apr 2014, 01:49#3
 What you said is very true in some respects - but there are other issues as well.   Let me be more explicit about some of those.
The first issue relates to what comes out of our schools.  I often see the schools rugby on TV and I also watch Craven Week on TV - the passing and running skills showed by those kids are really very good.  Their running lines are excellent.  So the question is - what happens to the kids that have the relevant abilities?
They often enough are drafted into the Rugby academies and there the issue is vastly different.   First of all and most importantly - they are put on a programme to develop physically and little attention is given to skills development.  Muscle-bound their running speed goes out of the window. Size is everything - speed and skills go out of the window.
The end result is that speedy kids become slow adults without skills.   The clever players are generally of smaller built and they are cast out in the wilderness.   You get the rare case of a youngster like Willie le Roux coming through the process by not going to the academies of one of the major Unions and not being coached out of their skills in that phase.  
Slow backline players make it impossible to run lines and catch the ball at speed.  However, there is another problem and that is the lack of rugby intellect and game reading ability that needs to be mentioned.  It is absent in total from most of our backline players.
The other issue that has developed in SA since the 1990's is the tendency for a flyhalf to stand still when receiving the pass from the scrummie.  The idea that flyhalfs is stationery is according to some the SA way to play the game - which is obviously rubbish.   A flyhalf receiving a ball standings still puts the whole backline in reverse gear - leaving no space for operation - running lines or anything else.    By the time the 12 receives the ball he is swamped already. 
You mention Francois Steyn having to take contact because of absence of running lines. etc.   It is not the case entirely - I have seen players with acres of space outside of Steyn and he still refuse to pass the ball to them and take contact or kick the ball.
The problem with the size obsession is that the thinking players who reads games and instinctively take decisions are not retained in the set-up.   You get players like the two Steyns who have to be told in advance what they gave to do - so they do it unthinkingly without regard to circumstances.  
People wonder what my problem is with players like Francois Steyn and Morne Steyn - the reason is both are poor readers of the game and poor decision makers.   The result os kicking or crashballing galore.
Our best backline players over the past 20 years were players like Montgomery, Habana and Paulse (Willie le Roux shows similar tendencies).  Al those players were small in size - but were or are clever players who use their brains even more than their bodies to get  better results.  
Lets look at the abilities of some of the present Springboks:-
JP Pietersen - strong ball carrier - but seriously questionable speedwise.  Not really a thinking player.
JJ Engelbrecht - physiocally strong and speedy  - but insofar as rugby thinking is concerned he is in a special school for mentally retarded. 
Francois Steyn - insofar as physical development is concerned very strong - but seriously deficient in the speed department.  Insofar as thinking rugby is concerned same and in some respects even worse than JJ.

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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
18 Apr 2014, 05:45
#4
18 Apr 2014, 05:45#4
Their has been good individuals over the years. Montgomery was one of them, but even he lost some of his pace and acceleration after too much creatine.
One thing New Zealand have for them is that the some of their players of Islander decent have 20-30 kg's over most backline players around the world, but have the skills of small players. 
We have skillful players like Cheslin Kolbe or Willie Leroux, but they are much smaller than some of the New Zealand stock.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
18 Apr 2014, 06:45
#5
18 Apr 2014, 06:45#5
 Well the comp winning Chiefs must have the smallest backline in Superugby . Go check .
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
18 Apr 2014, 06:59
#6
18 Apr 2014, 06:59#6
its a whole snowball into avalanche effect, one thing piling onto another leading to this current saffa prediciment.

NZ conferecne has always been the hardest, three multiple champions and the only conference where every team has not only played in the finals, but have also played in at least one grand final.
SA conference has as in all things rugby been the runner ups to NZ, and this has been the way its been for the longest time (though technically they are tied with the aussies as both only have a puny three titles to their name, )

but it brings me to my main point, one of the main reasons is the resurgence of the australian conference who for the first time ever have all teams preforming, making their conference IMO the hardest conference at the moment.
not only can any aussie team beat any aussie team, but the aussies are currently doing better then both NZ and especially SA in matches between the three conferecnes, just look at the numbers in my ongoing thread SANZAR WARS!!!

another reason is its been a known fact that SAs brand of rugby has been the least exciting of the three SANZAR countires. the inability of SA rugby backline play as a whole to evolve is starting to catch up with them.
rugby has slowly but surely shown a lot of favour to teams who embrace the expansive plan, and its in this area where NZ are world leaders, while SA have managed to coast by relying on their bigger is better mentality and the famous but outdated reliance of the boot.

this problem has been mentioned in that article i posted about exBoks not doing enough.
a former Bok player said the from the junior levels up they pick the same old big boys first, meanwhile in NZ,,,
remmeber that utube clip oimatey posted with that 10 year old kid rugby prodigy??? just like 10 man rugby is part of the Bok DNA, expansive rugby is part of the All Blacks DNA.

this attitude is also reflected in some of the posters train of thought, parttime sharkbok couldnt understand why so many hurricane tight 5 players were amongst the top players in their position according to foxsport, despite them getting pwned during the scurms and hwat have u, especially against the sharks scrum.
and granted foxsport dosent paint the whole picture, but neither does parttime sharkboks understanding of the role of a modern day player in all positions including the front row.
attacking with ball in hand, tackling, breakdown work, link up plays, defensive scrambling, scrums, lineouts. NZ frontrow can compete with others in all categories, but might end up on the short stick in some.
saffa front row players can scrum but dont do anything anyhwere else, there are always exceptions though, bizzy, strauss, connie and greyling come to mind, but as a whole, their is a need for massive improvement in all round skills, stamina and effort needed.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Apr 2014, 12:46
#7
18 Apr 2014, 12:46#7
 I see the blowhard saSUE is in full flight. Please saSUe your appaling ignorance would be solved if you heeded Murray Mexteds words. The day we put our house in order its tickets re the wee abs who will then resume their traditional role as second best to the Boks. Please recall that for many decades our head to head record was better than yours and for a reason - we produce better talent.
The playing fields have not been level since readmission. Your usiing central contracting to load the cursaders for years is legendary. Bent refs are your main arsenal. Travel advantages.
Here in SA we battle quotas and political intereference. Incredibly weak rand sends players scuttling overseas in unprecedented doves. Too many provinces. No central contracting system. In WP the clubs rule the professional arm and loot the coffers of the Stormers. Top coaches walk out due to interference etc etc etc. 
Our best coaches are ignored. Venter, rassie and mallet sit on the sidelines.
It is a complete mess that a first class idiot could not have better contrived.
What is amazing is that we are still competitive! What is more with a decent coach in Meyer we should be beating the wee abs this year and winning the world Cup next year. Certainly the wee abs are on the skids as so many burgled wins last year showed.
I do hope the above gives the blowhard saSUe something to think about but thinking is not ou saSUe's forte. Bwahahhah ahahahahhahaha 







BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Apr 2014, 13:01
#8
18 Apr 2014, 13:01#8
Sharkbok are you hallucinating? Weights between sa backline players and nz are pretty close these days apart from one or two exceptions.We oif course like to move any really backline player to loose forard. Frans being a notable exception. That we are flooded with wolrd class loosies has escaped tehse nutters making the decision. Spies is the worst example of this. Deon Fourie would have made a brilliant inside centre. Keegan Daniels a briliant scrummie. Breyton Paulese too would have been agreat scrfummie. Its just that the oaks have no vision. Brain power has been a problem as I have always maintained. Bright coaches like Mallet, Rassie and Venter scare the twits in power.

Always remember too we had no problems even with Jono lowmowed. We set our scrummie Joost to flatten him. Os got in on the act as well and Jono lowmowed went very quiet. In fact he never ever scored a try against the Boks.  Job done with no fuss.
Our problem re backs is bad coaching and and unbalanced approach and strategy - end or story. 
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