Why cant our players pass the ball......

Mozart

Are you really surprised by this phenomenon?   You really should not be a all.   They and for years have coaches dead set against passing of balls -  prime examples being Meyer, Ludeke, Coetzee, White, Gold, Marais  and Fleck.

Players are not selected on the basis of ball skills - but on the basis of size and  stupidity,   For years performance was not a basis for selection at all,   Passing of the ball was not an issue for inclusion in the game plans of all the above.   Meyer in fact prohibited off-loads in WC games in 2015.   

You should be happy about the kicking game the players were selected for, but often enough kicks were totally aimless and only ball possession handover of possession.   But then the people who place kicking ahead of passing of balls do not know the difference between aimless kicking and strategic kicking with the object of putting recipients under pressure or neutralizing defense,     There were plenty of aimless kicks this year.  

   .  ,     

This was the most noticeable difference between the Bulls and the Chiefs. The Bulls always go to ground, while the Chiefs offload in the tackle- if there is no space to draw and pass.

I stopped watching the game because it was just pathetic. 

The tackling technique needs to be looked at as well, to pin the arms of the ball carrier to prevent offloads, or at least make them harder to do.

The forwards in SA are better at offloading in the tackle than the backs. The white Afrikaans backline players, in particular, seem to never pass, or when they do it is not to the standard of a professional sportsperson. Some of the backs doing the best passing are black and players of colour, but they are typically smaller players and not as good on defence. It seems creatine donkeys progress, while the players with skill get lost in the system, or have to play 7's

Long standing problem. Charge into your oppent and go to ground. Opposition regroup try again. 

Schoolboy players can pass but not seniors. 

It's not rocket science, nothing secret about it either. Don't have to reinvent the wheel either. 

Look at our Sevens players. Probably the most skilled side in the world. Outstanding passes offload and support play. 

The stupidity involved is beyond words. 

Exactly what I thought Beeno. Watching varsity rugby, the guys are skillful, run rapport lines and offload with timing and precision.

What happens to those skills when they move up to the next tier?

plum

I have always maintained that skills are being coached out of our players by the dud coaches we are used to.   Most of them have no idea about how a ball-in-hand game is played and it is not part of their game plans.

Meyer made it very clear in his own remarks and his selections - he even went so far as forbidding   off=loading of balls in the 2015 WC.      

World Cup finalists Australia made only 38.

Pakie 

You have a very short memory preferring not to remember what Meyer saod about SA Backline players not have the skills to playa ball0in-hand game.   You also prefer not to remember what Vermeulen said after the Wales game that he by off=loading the ball that let to the Du Preez try that he thought he was going to be ion trouble with the coach - because Meyer forbid off0loading in games,   

Fix your memory and you would remember both of those issues widely reported in the media.   

Go back to what the papers immediately after the Wales match reported.   And that Bosman story is stale as is most of your BS.

You also prefer not to remember what Vermeulen said after the Wales game that he by off=loading the ball that let to the Du Preez try that he thought he was going to be ion trouble with the coach - because Meyer forbid off0loading in games,  

Well I have so far looked at all the post-match reports I can find online and there's no such comment anywhere. Meyer's comments on our players not having the skill to compete in an expansive game is well documented and easy to find. This nonsense about offloads is nowhere.

Go back to what the papers immediately after the Wales match reported. 

Actually Mike, how it works in the real world is as follows: if you make a claim and someone challenges you on it, you need to produce the proof for it. This is how we prevent people from just talking any old nonsense they please. So until you can do that, I call bullshit.

In the real world the challenger must provide the proof that his challenge is not baseless.    So you admit it that the BS spread by Meyer was real in the case of passing the balls and his coaching  contributed to the situation where we are now,     Any player wth a tendency to pass balls were totally opposed by him. 

Le Roux came in and he was much admired for what he did,   His second  season he did not pass the ball anymore and instead of attacking play he started to kick the ball making mostly poor kicks,   By 2015 Meyer had forced him into a game where he was as useless as Kirchner.    He dsid not play for the Springboks because there was no difference between the BS Meyer and Copetzee expected from players,     It took Le Roux two years to get back to what he used to be. when first selected  to play for the Springboks.  Who coached his natural skills out of him?       

In the real world the challenger must provide the proof that his challenge is not baseless.

Okay, so by that logic I can claim that you, for example, steal money from pensioners and you must prove me wrong. The onus is not on me to prove my claim at all, right?

So, you steal money from pensioners Mike. Produce proof that I'm wrong, otherwise you're guilty.

So you admit it that the BS spread by Meyer was real in the case of passing the balls and his coaching  contributed to the situation where we are now,     Any player wth a tendency to pass balls were totally opposed by him.

Nope, I simply mentioned that the following is documented :

Meyer feels most of the Boks in his World Cup squad are ill-equipped to play a dynamic brand of winning rugby. It is for this reason that he decided to revert to a more pragmatic approach after the shock 34-32 defeat against Japan in the opening game of the Rugby World Cup against in Brighton.

The Bok coach believes the Boks are at their best if they play their traditional power game where they smash their opponents into submission rather than using skill and guile to outsmart their opponents.

“We don’t have the skills how can we play differently,” he said when asked if the Boks will consider adapting their style of play again in the future.

The rest of the embellishments are yours alone.

Oue Mike can't remember the facts from his own BS. To support his own argument at the time, he adds a line of BS. Then later down the line, he can't distinguish from the original facts and his original BS, he then adds a subjective interpretation of the facts. The net result is total BS

Pakie

The remark I referred to about the lack of skills of the Springbok backline was made more than a year before the WC and was an integral part of Meyer's approach to the game,    It was even more so in the case of the Stormers when Coetzee was in charge, 

I did not only refer to Meyer - - I referred to his co-thinkers who coached the various franchises while he was coach,

Anybody referring to  "The Bok coach believes the Boks are at their best if they play their traditional power game where they smash their opponents into submission rather than using skill and guile to outsmart their opponents. "  is a total nut case.   That approach was dead and buried  fifty years ago when modern dietary and training techniques resulted in a more equal situation as to forward play - there is no way that that was not total BS.   

One always wonders why that type of BS is still spouted nowadays by SA coaches and their demented supporters,   If after the disasters of the past decade that is not realized then we must have a serious need for trying to think before we accept that from any coach,   Nobody who thinks that in the Japan game a different a style of rugby was used to what followed in the rest of the WC must be a nutcase too.    

SO LETS ANALYSE THE SITUATION TO PROVE MY POINT:- 

Japan test 

SH

Pienaar

0/1

0

4/79/6

34

0

0

0

1

2/0

0/0

1

0/0

(SH)

du Preez

0/1

0

1/14/1

1

0

0

0

0

1/1

0/0

0

0/0

FH

Lambie

0/0

7

14/22/5

20

0

0

1

0

6/0

0/0

0

0/0

(FH)

Pollard

0/0

5

4/1/2

21

1

2

0

0

2/0

0/0

0

0/

So the scrummies in that game passed the balls 93 times and the flyhalfs handled the balls 48 times.   A person must also remember that flyhalfs do handle the balls when covering kicks by their opposition  so not all balls handled by the flyhalfs they get from the scrummies,   careful analysis indicates that more than half of the passes went to forwards and not the backline players at all. Now look at the situation as to balls handled by DE Villiers at 12 in that game:-

C

de Villiers

0/0

0

2/6/11

28

1

1

0

0

8/2

0/0

0

0/0

De Villiers handled the ball 19 times and of those he crashballed 11 times.   He passed the ball only 6 times, 

Wales test  

SH

du Preez

1/0

5

16/103/8

40

1

1

0

0

2/1

0/0

0

0/0

FH

Pollard

0/0

18

11/16/12

35

0

2

0

1

3/0

2/0

0

0/0

(FH)

Lambie

0/0

0

1/0/0

0

0

0

0

0

5/0

0/0

0

0/0

So in the Wales test  the scrummy passed the ball 103 times  and the flyhalfs handled the ball 40 times.    The same situation is evident in both games  and the reference as quoted above  is therefore total BS anyway,  Must say the no 12  handled the balls in the Wales test  more efficiently than De Villiers handled the ball  in the Japan test:-

C

de Allende

0/0

0

1/1/14

59

0

3

0

2

7/1

0/0

0

0/0

De Villiers in the Japan test handled the ball   19 times  as against De Allende who handled the ball 16 times in the Wales test.  

IN BOTH THE ABOVE TESTS  AND IN THE REST OF THE WC  THE SAME  LUNATIC STYLE OF RUGBY WAS PLAYED,   THAT IS WHY MEYER DID NOT SELECT ANY LIONS PLAYERS FOR THE WC SQUAD,  A NUTCASE THINKING ENDIORSED 100% BY HIS NUTCASE SUPPORTES,

So the scrummies in that game passed the balls 93 times and the flyhalfs handled the balls 48 times.

In other words, 51% for the flyhalf against Japan, and 38% against Wales.

Let's look at Rassie in similar conditions on the EOYT (SH passes/FH possessions):

vs England - 97/38 = 39%

vs France - 62/26 = 41%

vs Wales - 102/56 = 54% (probably less as Pollard moved to center with Jantjies coming in, but I factored in all their possessions together)

Some other games:

vs Argentina - 33/71 = 46%

vs Argentina - 35/92 = 38%

vs NZ - 28/62 = 45%

Yet Meyer is hailed as a stone age donkey and Rassie, with roughly the same amount of passes reaching the flyhalf, as an enlightened genius.

Mozart

You know you are diverting from the issue you raised yourself and repeating a falsehood you invented to attack De Allende on the try scored by Barrett, 

In any event that was never the issue,    You said  that  the SA players cannot pass balls and I stated categorically that after years of defective coaching by not only Meyer - but virtually  all other franchise level coaches where passing of the ball was totally coached out of players the present situation can be explained what happened as a result of those coaches.

Passing skills can be coached - but was coached out of players by dud coaches - whose game plans were totally opposed to refining and  using backline passing skills of players,   And then ended up with players not using it,      Why did both Le Roux and Pollard  started off brilliantly and ended up being duds by the time Meyer left as coach,    After playing in Europe Le Roux came back with the same skills he had when first selected to play for the Springboks after two years not being selected by Coetzee - a coach with the same tendencies as Meyer,   Why did Pollard ended where he was by the end of 2015 under Meyer and Ludeke?

So back to your myth of Du Preez not wanting to pass the ball to inexperienced players at 1-0 ad 12,    It really is far-fetched - the same thing happened in the Japan test where De Villiers played at 12 - and there was no real change in  the later tests.    The game plan was the same throughout the WC and there was no change at all,   It was all based on the same game plan.  I quoted the stats to show where Pakie went off the rails.     

No Mozart - the ideal situation for the past 7 years was to derail the coaching of ball handling skills out of players through seriously defective game plans and the players cannot be blamed for it now.    

In the meantime your reference to the AB game is totally questionable as well - the fact is the AB's use their backline players to derail the opposition defense by using of their wings and full back as alternative recipients from the flyhalf and not only the inside center like Meyer did.   

This remind me of your ridiculous claim that Morne Steyn was on par with Carter as a flyhalf some years ago - your comparisons here are in the same vein. 

So lets get back to hat you wrote initially "Why can't our players pass the ball …."   Think again and you may yet see the light on the issue if you are prepared to be objective.                    .  

I never could understand the logic of going to ground with the ball.

A simple pop pass before or in contact would keep the momentum going and put a lot of pressure on the opposition, and yet we don't have this simple basic strategy in place ... not even at the Boks.

I don't think it's dawned on any of our coaches to encourage this basic move ... then again ... does it really need to be coached at this level of rugby? Surely it should already be a part of any and every players arsenal?

Pakie

For a change don't be the idiot you always are - the flyhalf also cover kicked balls and thus handle balls not always received from the scrummie.  Fact is if you cannot see what happened routinely in the games and that there is a serious similarity in playing styles betweent he Japan test and the Wales test - you must really be idiotic.   

Then = was Jantjies in the WC squad in 2015?   Himmell - I ask you where did you got that from?  And don't do the Silly Billy thing changing the utter bs he wrote after beingc aught out and then denying that he wrote it,  So here goes the quote to preent it happening:-

" (probably less as Pollard moved to center with Jantjies coming in, but I factored in all their possessions together)."

Yes your  reference of Meyer being a "stone age donkey" as a coach is the best description I have ever seen of him as a coach,     .   

Then = was Jantjies in the WC squad in 2015? 

Again, try reading what was written.

CC

If you watch school rugby and Varsity Cup rugby the skills are there and used.   Ask yourself the question - why does it vanish when it comes to franchise and test level players.   Fact is the game plans of SA coaches do not allow for players to pass and off-loading of balls,

Ackerman opposed that trend and was duly rewarded  by his team being in the finals of the Super rugby series twice - t first time it happened since 2012 when Plumtree took the Sharks to the final.   You know how silly Billy went bananas on that one and how Mozart and co swore that it was White who saved the Sharks from terminal decline disregarding the nearly unheard of injury crisis the Sharks faced in 2013,   

My statement that the SA Franchise coaches - other than Ackerman - through game plans and coaching deficiency coached ball skills out of promising players have been proven over and over again - and now we wonder why players coming through the system during the past six years  seem to be unable to use ball skills in games.         

Pakie

Sorry I did not see how you tried to change the topic.  You moved from the stone age donkeys to Erasmus,  

What could Erasmus do in the tests - he inherited the players from the two stone age donkeys and has to  use what he got after they were already spoiled and has to be retrained comprehensively,

This crying about Erasmus is unjustified and total delusion anyway,   You and your fellow idiots ignored what happened in comparing  Erasmus record  with what the stone age donkey did in 2012,  It was indeed farcical - especially when it came to scoring of tries by backline players,

But now back to your Erasmus story based on his first year as coach.  Even what he inherited was better than what the players achieved.   Look at Le Roux's and Pollard's performance at the end of 201 5 and compare it with their performances in 2018 and you would not believe that it is the same two players playing.

The stone age donkeys - LMAO.