Will SA be banned from international sport?

The following article refers:-

 Australian media are reporting that South Africa should be banned from international sporting events as "punishment" for land reform plans and attacks on white farmers, just as it was during apartheid.

Paul Murray, a popular host on Sky News Australia, hinted that land expropriation without compensation is apartheid in reverse.

"I don't want to ostracise the entire population of South Africa tomorrow, but in the same way that little things built to what became apartheid, little things can build to a reverse of it," he said during a panel discussion on his show.

"I don't think they [South Africa] should be banned tomorrow [from the Commonwealth Games in Brisbane in April], but I do think it's a little bit weird that no one is having a conversation about punishing South Africa through sport as we did quite correctly for apartheid, when they have passed laws in their parliament to forcibly remove the land of whites."

Australian media is abuzz with a debate around the land issue in South Africa, and the peril faced by white South African farmers.   This comes after Australia's minister for immigration and border protection, Peter Dutton, reportedly said that his department is considering fast-tracking the visas of white South African farmers looking to emigrate to Australia, because the group deserves "special attention" owing to the "horrific circumstances" they face in South Africa.

The Guardian on Wednesday quoted Dutton as saying: "If you look at the footage and read the stories, you hear the accounts, it's a horrific circumstance they [white farmers] are in ... from what I have seen, they do need help from a civilised country like ours."

Australian former speaker and ex-MP from the Liberal Party Bronwyn Bishop told Murray during his panel interview that Nelson Mandela's legacy is now dead.

"Well, it's apartheid isn't it?," she claimed. "It's [land expropriation is] being brought in, and it means Mandela's legacy is dead. He was such a remarkable man with such a vision as to how things could be reconciled and people could live together, and this is reinstating apartheid – this time by black over white."

In another interview with Sky News Australia, Sunday Mail editor Peter Gleeson said Dutton's bid to fast-track the visa process for white farmers was a good idea.

"I think this is a good one from Peter Dutton. I mean bring them in. Just the gravity of what's going on in South Africa, with 400 white farmers murdered every year. The murder rate in South Africa among these people is 138 out of one hundred thousand; when you consider that in Australia, it is three out of one hundred thousand," Gleeson claimed.

"If ever there was a case where we should bring our South African neighbours who are in peril – these people are in peril; they are being subjected to the most extraordinary torture and murder regime. If we can't bring some of these people out here and have them own the land in some of our rural and regional areas, I don't know what this country is coming to... At the moment, those statistics around the murder rate and the rape rate are extraordinary."

Australia can never be accused of being a model when it comes to treatment of people on the basis of race - they have a poor history on that score and that is a fact.     They have a seriously self-centered approach in this case - when the bottom fell out of Zimbabwe agriculture they did the same iro Zimbabwe farmers as they are saying now  iro of SA farmers.   Some of these youngsters from Zimbabwe turn out to be top class RUGBY players - eg Pocock and Godwin.   

However, there is already a storm brewing iro of the quota selection system introduced in sport by the Government - although not as prominent on the public forum as is he case now with the land issue

Then we also have to face facts - the UK and USA also have made disparaging remarks about the policies of the SA Government on issues such as farm attacks and bribery and corruption in SA and in sporting circles there are serious reservations about the competitiveness of SA teams as a result of quota selections.

Lets face facts - from a rugby perspective we are in serious trouble and from a political perspective in even a worse situation.  I am glad I do not have a long way to go at my age - but I pity the poor young people of all race groups caught in the middle of the present quagm ire.    

Here are some things that would make land expropriation much more acceptable...

1) A government that isn't one of the most openly corrupt in the world.

2) A country where whites aren't threatened by the majority's politicians.

3) Actual research into 

a) who initially owned the land

b) who sold and bought the land and for what price 

c) what was the norm at the time when the land changed hands 

d) how productive was the land prior to changing hands as compared to after

e) what was the effect of the increased or decreased productivity of the land

f) records of land transactions

g) how did the "original" owners of the land come to own it and where are those people who owned it before them?

h) how much of the land was completely vacant prior to the "original sin"

4) the world wasn't dictated by populist culture

5) the ANC had actually made an effort since 1994 to train people to farm.

6) if there was any evidence anywhere else in Africa where reclaimed land was being used productively and aided in building a thriving economy.

7) if there weren't glaring examples within SA where people being given land amounted to ZERO due to bad management and despicable leadership.

The last point there. Anyone been down to the Transkei lately? Everyone has their piece of land. An area about half the size of England and each one has his bit of land to build his house on and generally do whatever the fk he wants. 

That area is so pristine for farming that irrigation is almost an afterthought. I once bought grass(actual grass), about 2000m2 from a woman in East London. I asked her about irrigation she laughed. "No need for that here" she said. Granted it's further south but that entire area has ample natural moisture and consistent rain with lots of sunshine.

Is it successful or showing signs of progress. NOPE. Natural beauty aside, from Kokstad all the way down to Butterworth the entire place is owned by locals and the entire place is a screaming shytehole...and getting worse by the day.

So what have they managed there? Well subsistence living...sort of. Everyone from every family collects their SASSA cheque monthly. Each guy has a cow or two and him and all his neighbors let the cows feed on the same patch of grass every day so that when you drive through that entire(hundreds of kms) area now all you see everywhere are giant tare s in the land due to erosion from over grazing. The longer it continues the more "unfarmable" the land becomes. And these aren't even bloody farm stocks. They're practically pet cattle.

Anyone been to Mthatha lately? I'm not exaggerating when I say that it is the most horrible, crime ridden, filthy, disfunctional and generally hellholish place I've ever had the displeasure of spending any time in. The capital of the Kei. The place where everyone's owns land. Wonderful.

Are there any government projects to teach people how to farm? NOPE. Are these people some kf the most impoverished people in the country and indeed the world? ABSOLUTELY.

The black blokes I know, who owns some land in the Eastern Cape, old Tramskei, don't pay any property tax.

Thank you Australia...I hope other countries too will rise to this and impose not only sporting sanctions but economic ones too and force the issue until this horrific issue is abandoned.

This is extremely good news.

Plum

I worked for the Forestry Department in the 1960's and there used to be a large number of plantations controlled by the Department on the Transkei - there even was a saw mil in Umtata - the whole set-up provided thousands of jobs to the locals.   The conditions for afforestation is marvelous in the Transkei and their was massive opportunities for development of a forestry based industry.   The question is what is left of that today and the answer is near to nothing.

On the 1970/s and 1980's the Government started aa major problem for development of agriculture in the Transkei and provided seed, equipment and professional advice to the locals as to how to earn money from farming and in the main to produce extra food above the family needs.- anyone  travelling through the  Transkei could see the results - huge maize-fields and even tea and coffee plantations.   What is left of those efforts?   Zero ad the older residents even now complain bitterly about the destruction of those projects by the present Government.

Unfortunately it is not realized by the politico's and their hangers-on that farming is a business where market research and structured capital investment makes the difference between success and failure and in Africa it represents massive failure.  

That is why you will find SA farmers in Nigeria, Brazzaville Congo, Zambia and Mozambique being given land and support by the Government.   In Nigeria about 30 farmers from SA and Zimbabwe in one state produce 70%  of the wheat production in the whole country.   The same is happening in the other countries mentioned.   The agricultural production in those countries mentioned and others is increasing - in SA it is decreasing.   We are getting nearer and nearer to the Zimbabwean situation.

Ask Seb about this issue as well.   Whenever the State takes over agricultural land - the result is a disaster,   In 1984 the Soviet Union produced less food than in 1914 - this despite the technological advances in that period.   President Gorbachev in his biography said that two of his brothers died from starvation in the 1930's.  

However, the emphasis here is actually on sport.   We will be isolated sooner than we think.  Imagine the Indian and Pakistani farm owners losing their properties aand hacing to leave for India.   No more international cricket.

The same applies to rugby where the top ten countries are based in Europe and Australasia   - no more rugby.              

@ Mike there are some lovely tree plantations up around and north of Kokstad.

The Transkei could be a wonderful tourism destination. Unfortunately the only travellers one ever sees around Port St John's etc are third world groupies who think seeing poverty makes them deeper people. 

A friend of mine runs a backpackers down there. Employs about 20 locals in total. One of them got fired for repeatedly stealing booze. Guy used to still come around and drink at the bar. Tried to cause trouble one night and after being chucked out came back in and literally bit a full bite size chunk out of my friend's forehead. You could about a five rand size piece if his skull. Need plastic surgery. 

That's what you get for giving someone a job and then having the nerve to fire them after they steal from you.

On another occasion a bunch of guys from Mthatha rocked up, held everyone at gunpoint, raped some tourists girls in the shower and beat the shiz out of almost everyone there. 

Place is as Trump says "A Sh1thole". 

What a waste. Such natural beauty.

Taking land from white farmers worked well in Rhodesia didnt it ? Having said that Dutton and Bishop are a pair of arseholes ,bishop was forced out of parliament because of her rorting expenses .

Wardad

Zimbabwe went from the breadbasket of Africa to a basket case where millions must be fed by, food donation from the hated western countries,   Starvation is always a threat in that poor country which  under Mugabe became one of the poorest countries in the world.   Everyone who could st ole everything they could - Mugabe ended up with 16 stolen farms,

From my comments you should note that I am not particularly fond of Aussie politicians..   The Aussies has been hunting for years for SA farmers and it started in the 1960's already,   In general the Aussies are not keen in living in the Outback and on farming and the Aussie  Government is keen to find farmers from SA anyway,      For instance I had a friend -  Charles Dent - who was the third biggest private shareholder in the Tongaat-Hulett Company in SA - who in the 1970's bought a huge sugar farm in Queensland and send his daughter and her husband to farm there.   Some of the Hulett's also ended up farming in Australia.   I foresee a flood of emigrants ending up on Australian farms.

Plum

The forest you are referring to is Weza - situated between  Harding and Kokstad in Kwa-Zulu-Natal.   Weza and Mbazwane-Ngwenya  were famous at one stage as the biggest two plantations in the  Southern Hemisphere,  

Weza (41 000 hectares) is also world famous - especially in the Netherlands - as the biggest quality dagga production area in the world.   When I was in Amsterdam in 1973 a tout was offering me dagga to buy claiming that it was legal in the Netherlands.  He claimed it was top quality stuff from Weza.  I nearly collapsed laughing - until 1970 I worked for the owners, but was fully aware of the Weza dagga production reputation.

Incidentally the dagga plant has various potential uses which can be used in industry - even for producing clothes - but that is absolutely forbidden at present.   

Land taken illegally says that nutter shakbokke! So who did the prior possesors take form and who took it form them.  Shakbookie please thnk before you post.

SA should also be banned  for the racist job reservation policy of the racist anc. White South African should be given refugee status n Australia and USA. What a boon for those two count ries and  foresee a fight as to who get Beeno!

Lol Beenis

Trump will pay Zillions for you. 

For me, I've started immigration proceedings to Canada.

Came back here some years ago full of optimism, managed to build a nice business and hired locals at good fair rates. 

It's too much now man. Gonna see how this all plays out, fight if I have to, but but ultimately will go to a country where I'm not constantly hearing how I'm the evil white man. 

I'll do my work somewhere else at let my tax $ support people in an actual multicultural society where knowledge and udnerstanding means more than skin color.

Plum

If I was thirty years old today I would be out of SA forthwith - it is fast becoming a racist hell-hole for Whites.   I cannot find employment due to my age - so I have to put up with it.   My best advice to working people is to get out why they can.

I have one problem though - I do not want to be starved to death like happened to so many elderly people in Zimbabwe.     

Rhodesia was the garden of Eden of Africa...their maize was the highest yield per acre in the world, their beef far best than any I've ever tasted, their citrus, especially grapefruit unbelievable...their Burley tobacco the highest yield in the world...when they looted the country became the poorest country in the world....I lived there for one year...in 1971...The Rhodesian Dollar was even more than the rand and certainly higher than the US $ despite sanctions. Salisbury was the cleanest city I've ever seen in the world, most Rhodesians are the nicest folk you could ever meet...Rhodesian rugby side beat the AB's in 1949 ...by the way the African people too were the nicest black people I've ever met...a tragedy...Ian Smith was not a racist...on the contrary he was well loved by those workers on his farm...every member had a medical aid and he could even walk freely in the streets  even after he was no longer Prime Minister...even Harold Wilson (his enemy) once said he was the most honest politician he ever met.

What happened there is a bloody disgrace.

I was joking with Johnny Rey - he and his brother Micky (the husband of Penny Coelen - a previous Miss World)   have the biggest  sugar  farm  in Zululand,   Mickey and Penny is going to Australia next month and he may be looking for farming opportunities there.