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FORUM / RUGBY /  Will Willemse be a great player?

Will Willemse be a great player?

Started by Beeno124 REPLIES838 VIEWS· 27 Mar 2018, 14:59
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Mar 2018, 14:59
#1
27 Mar 2018, 14:59#1

Cape Town - The Stormers’ skills guru Paul Feeney has coached All Black wing Rieko Ioane so it says something about Damian Willemse’s potential that the Kiwi should describe him as a talent who is as good as anyone he has coached.

Feeney though is not in a rush to join those who are describing Willemse as a great No10 in the making after the 19-year-old’s three good performances in succession against the Highlanders, Blues and Reds, according to the supersport.com website.

Feeney, who worked as one of the assistant coaches at the Blues before heading to South Africa in late 2016, has just seen too many young flyhalves pushed too young and have too much expected of them not to be wary of doing the same thing with Willemse.

I coached Gareth Anscombe when he was just 20 and everyone thought he was going to be the next big thing in New Zealand but then when he didn’t push on as quickly as everyone wanted him to they said he was on the scrapheap at the age of 21,” said Feeney.

Anscombe is a good example to use as a player who too much was expected of as a flyhalf while still young. At the age of 26 Anscombe is now playing for Wales, but he might still be in New Zealand had it not been for a perception five years ago that he wasn’t delivering what he was expected to deliver.

Feeney is a big believer in the dictum that it takes time to mature, and he believes that is even more the case at flyhalf, which he sees as a special position.

“Damian is a super talent, he’s one of the most talented players I have ever coached and talent wise he has everything, but No10 is a special position – will he be a Beauden Barrett, a Jonny Wilkinson or a Johnny Sexton?" asked Feeney.

"The No10 isn’t there for flair, he’s there to push the team around the park and be smart. But he has the bonus of having more flair than anyone else.

So if he can have the same brain as a Sexton, a Wilkinson, a Dan Carter or an Andrew Mehrtens, then he will kill it. We will only know that in time. He is still young. He needs to develop. That is why I am careful of opening the lid too much, of expecting too much. As a No10 you have to be the brains of your team. It’s all about the computer you have in your head. You have to push your team around the park and know when to kick, when to pass, when to run, and that only comes with time.”

In Feeney’s view a player has only properly settled at Super Rugby level after he has played 30 to 40 games. Before that, young or new players are learning and are yet to become completely comfortable.

“You will see once Damian gets to 30 or 40 games whether he has the capabilities to be a great flyhalf,” says Feeney.

“He is definitely a talent. He has much talent as anyone I have ever worked with. Curwin Bosch (of the Sharks) is also a special talent, but with both of them only time will tell how far they will go as flyhalves.”(BOSCH IS TOO FRAGILE. WILLEMSE GETS STUCK IN)

Bosch is currently playing mainly at fullback for the Sharks. Stormers head coach Robbie Fleck believes the only way to learn to play flyhalf is to play flyhalf, and Feeney agrees that Willemse needs as “much time in the saddle” as he can get. But he is also not completely averse to Willemse playing a few games at fullback like he did at the end of the last Currie Cup season.

There are similarities between 10 and 15 and the benefit of playing at fullback is that you get a good perspective from the back on what is happening in front of you, you can start assessing for yourself what the good options are and what the bad options are,” said Feeney.

“It is a fairly easy transition between flyhalf and fullback. But I would rather not see him bouncing around between too many positions. The more experience he can get as a flyhalf so much the better.”

Life might get more interesting for Willemse and more comfortable for the Stormers coaches quite soon as Jean-Luc du Plessis, who started off as the first choice Stormers pivot last year but was ruled out by long term injury, is back playing again.

A minor rib injury sustained in his first game back has put the son of former Bok wing and coach Carel out for another week, but Feeney recognises Du Plessis as a big talent who will introduce some competition for Willemse at flyhalf.

“The thing about Damian is that he is very young. You will recall that last year we weren’t keen to push him, and it was only much later in the season, when there were injuries, that we ended up starting him out of necessity. There is a lot of responsibility that comes with playing at flyhalf.”

At least with Du Plessis back in the mix, there won’t be quite as much pressure on Willemse to play in every game and as Du Plessis is a bit older than him Willemse will be able to learn off him. Given Willemse’ current form, however, it is hard to see anyone other than the 2016 South African Schools flyhalf wearing the Stormers No10.

GOOD COMMON SENSE STUFF FROM FEENEY. SO MUCH SA TALENT HAS BEEN BUTCH ERED

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Mar 2018, 15:45
#2
27 Mar 2018, 15:45#2

Beeno

The Stormers let Robert du Preez go because they know Willemse and Du Plessis were better options.   Willemse is sponsored by Johan Rupert and you can be sure he is going to help him go all the way.  He would get the best advice money can buy to help him in his career and some very large pocket money contributions.

Although he is just out of school a nice house in Stellenbosch and a Merc will also be on the cards.    

   

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
27 Mar 2018, 16:06
#3
27 Mar 2018, 16:06#3

man, you are copying & pasting 24/7,.... you are probably the one who more copy&paste have done in the whole world,... and still didn't learn how to do it properly?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Mar 2018, 17:27
#4
27 Mar 2018, 17:27#4
He will be if he becomes an orchestrator and a tactician, as well as a dangerous runner. That's the difference between Barrett who succeeded and the Quaalude who failed. Sexton is not a particularly dynamic runner but he is winning tests, because he knows how to control tests....when to run, when to pass....and crucially when the odds favour a well placed kick. He has also developed a slick wrap around move, which creates an extra runner.....Ireland have scored from this several times this season. But he uses it at the right time and rarely so keeps the element of surprise. Willemse is a terrific stepper, that wont make him a great test flyhalf by itself.... it can make him more dangerous. But I'm equally encouraged by his nerve, defence and competitiveness, attributes that suggest he has what it takes. Competitiveness distinguishes him from Goosen and Jantjies. Speed and physicality sets him above Lambie.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
27 Mar 2018, 18:10
#5
27 Mar 2018, 18:10#5

You need BMT from a flyhallf, Morne Steyn had that for a couple of years back in 2009 when he was slotting long range kicks at will to win games, controlled the space well and was able to get the likes of De Villiers and Fourie away, not to mention having a really classy 9 on the inside that took the pressure of him. 

I like the combo of Papier and Willemse as both are super fast, but neither of them have great tactical awareness. 

If you look at Aaron Smith, he is really quick around the fringes and can run a 40 meter try on his own. 

His service and passing under pressure is phenomenal, the speed, distance and accuracy that he can get with his passes with little room is amazing. I think he must have had a lot of wrist action back in the the day. 

The other reason why Sexton and Bauden does so well is because they both have world class 9s on their inside. 

None of our flyhalve will succeed with our current crop of 9's 

I really like look of Jansen van Vuuren, seems to have good service, box kick etc. 

Cronjy is terrible, Jantjies would have done better with a Murray or a Smith on his inside.


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Mar 2018, 18:20
#6
27 Mar 2018, 18:20#6

Willemse should look even better with Vermaak @9

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Mar 2018, 18:32
#7
27 Mar 2018, 18:32#7

Kingcorn

Forgive me - but I differ from you.  Morne always was a kicking dummy with near to zero ability to get the backline moving because he was standing to deep in the pocket,   He also virtually never attacked the gain line - so nobody bothered to cover him in defense.  Players could fall back to cover his kicks - often enough aimless and inaccurate - and the loosies and opposition flyhalf and center ccould go for the inside center should he receive a hospital pass.   In most peoples books he was a terrible flyhalf,

Even with their own deficiencies all of  Goosen. Lambie, Pollard and Janthies were bette r flyhalfs than Morne, who beat Fat Fransie by a short head as  flyhalf.               

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Mar 2018, 19:59
#8
27 Mar 2018, 19:59#8

Mozart

Don't you think the finesse will come with experience?  He has already showed class and  that can help him to improve in future.   

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Mar 2018, 20:34
#9
27 Mar 2018, 20:34#9

I like the combo of Papier and Willemse as both are super fast, but neither of them have great tactical awareness. 

Kingcorn this looks like an exciting combo. The natural ability s all there. t will now depend on sound management and the mental astuteness and toughness of these two players but man are they exciting prospects so far.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,256 posts
27 Mar 2018, 22:20
#10
27 Mar 2018, 22:20#10
Like the Stormers coach says, these players are like products. If they do not make a certain level, by a certain time they get discarded for the next new kid on the block. How will he fare in test rugby with less time and space?
Coaching is also key. Many of our best young talents get squandered by dummies that cant coach the backline. Noel Marais made the Bulls backlin e look like a thirds school team.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
28 Mar 2018, 08:55
#11
28 Mar 2018, 08:55#11

He is the best prospect we've seen for many years.

We've had crap for so long now (apart from Lambie) that anything a little better than a steaming pile of shit looks good to us.

We'll soon see how he handles test match rugby.

In all honesty ... I would just be pleased to see the last of Jantjies in a Bok jersey.

 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Mar 2018, 14:31
#12
28 Mar 2018, 14:31#12
Apart from Lambie.....what exactly did Lambie provide at 10 apart from brave defence: Great runner....nope, hardly ever beat a tackle Great passer/offloader......nope I can't remember one inspired pass. Great reader of the game.....nope he got confused as the defence got more aggressive. Great tactical kicker....not really Good defender....yes when going low, but often couldn't stop the offload. Great goal kicker.....technically yes, but he was unreliable when the kick was crucial...with the one exception of the AB winning kick which nobody expected him to make. .>>..............>...>................>.>................>..> So why 'apart from Lambie', give us a few examples, hell any example.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
28 Mar 2018, 14:33
#13
28 Mar 2018, 14:33#13

Unlikely. Very unlikely.


As show by his club, SA rugby still dont know how to initiate back line play. And this is above a player's capabilities to solve that issue.

And on the personal side, his profile does not fit into SA rugby, too much mobility and spontaneity to make it. Which means that he is left with no support and cover.

During the last game, for the second half, he was probably ordered to restrict the expression of his game as he was exposed and vulnerable to injuries.

Basically, a player who cant play.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Mar 2018, 17:55
#14
28 Mar 2018, 17:55#14

Aag fook off already Bitter-Ball z!

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Mar 2018, 08:49
#15
29 Mar 2018, 08:49#15

He's much like Mozart.

He has nothing positive to say about anyone. All our boys are failures it seems. Destined to join the ranks Mozart's "I told you so" lectures.

I wonder ... do you think they're one and the same person?


BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
29 Mar 2018, 09:43
#16
29 Mar 2018, 09:43#16
Willemse looks like the real deal. He certainly has all the raw materials. In the past I was always of the opinion that if a player was good enough, he should play, regardless of his age. However, my opinion on that has changed. We have ruined countless players by rushing them into the the Bok setup. I reckon let him be a part of the training squad to get a feel for the environment, but he should play out this year and prove he still has what it takes next year in Super Rugby. If he is still effective then...make him a Bok. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Mar 2018, 11:22
#17
29 Mar 2018, 11:22#17

Bluebok play Willemse off the bench as a starter against strong sides. He seems to be a confident character and not afraid to mix it.  Start him agai nst weaker teams

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
29 Mar 2018, 13:24
#18
29 Mar 2018, 13:24#18
Beans, we've done that so many times to rising stars only to see the pressure to perform and the expectation crack them on the big stage, because they are not mentally ready. Once that self belief is gone, its almost impossible to get it back. Lambie, D Hougard, Gaffie, Pienaar (At 10) and so on and so on. Some players like Carter and Wilkinson can get it right from the get go, but most need time to grow into the role. Especially at fly half. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Mar 2018, 13:31
#19
29 Mar 2018, 13:31#19

Bluebok

May I ask you  question - who would you suggest be the Springbok flyhalf this year?  

Please no Jantjies or Mozart's favourite Fat Fransie.   I would not mind Pollard - but he has his own problems at this stage - his defense is problematic.

However, I do not agree with you on the issue of Willemse.   You cannot select him only next year as Springbok flyhalf  since it would be immediately before the WC and he would have virtually no international experience when the WC commences.

Perhaps he should be placed off the bench initially and given ample playing time in matches this year until say the EOYT - when he should start in at least two tests.   That wo uld give him the opportunity to adjust to the next higher level.   

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
29 Mar 2018, 14:49
#20
29 Mar 2018, 14:49#20
Its a bit of a conundrum Mike. Because, we don't have a complete flyhalf in SA. I agree with you regarding Jantjes, and I am pretty sure that F Steyn is no longer in the picture anyway. Pre-season Du Preez looked like a solid option, but that is no longer the case. We are basically left with Pollard and Willemse. Pollard is not the player we once thought he was, but he is still more stable than Jantjes. So I'd have to say start with him. With reference to Willemse...do we risk ruining him by playing him too early, or do we take our shot now because if we don't, there won't be time to prepare him for the world cup? Well, its a rock and a hard place thing. However, we need to learn from history. Guys that are pushed up to early invariably fail. After that, self belief is their enemy. Let him earn his spot. Maybe bring him on as the replacement 10 for the 2018 EOY tour. He can still gain more experience during the 2019 Super rugby and the Rugby Champs. If he is still a force then...I say go for it.   
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
30 Mar 2018, 12:02
#21
30 Mar 2018, 12:02#21

He should absolutely be given a shot.

A needs to be brought in as soon as possible and the only way to do so is via the bench.

It would be stupid to slot him in as part of the run on team. Same goes for Papier.


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
30 Mar 2018, 13:52
#22
30 Mar 2018, 13:52#22

He has nothing positive to say about anyone. All our boys are failures it seems. Destined to join the ranks Mozart's "I told you so" lectures.


This player is not anyone: he is a quota player in the making.

As a matter of fact, SA missed the turn of professionalism. Consequently, SA players are limited in their approach to rugby.

As not having nothing to say positive, it is shown wrong by the post in this thread. No needs to go elsewhere to read that, contrary to SA, the NH has trained decent non white players for example.

In this thread, this player is acknowledged as having mobility and spontaneity. These qualities would turn out positive given the proper environment. SA rugby does not provide such an environment.

They turned out as negative. So much that this player was asked to restrict his game during the second half.

No matter his qualities, this guy playstyle does not fit into SA scheme. NZers might see promises in this guy as they use their own pattern of rugby as a reference. Yet, once put back where he belongs, his qualities are negative points in a rugby that shrinks from mobility and spontaneity.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Mar 2018, 16:48
#23
30 Mar 2018, 16:48#23

CC

This guy is a nutcase if I ever saw one - most of Mozart's failures are anything but.

I agree with you though - put him in the bench in the June tests and gradually introduce him into test rugby.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Mar 2018, 18:32
#24
30 Mar 2018, 18:32#24
Dan Carter played inside centre outside Mauger and off the bench for a while.....he was not catapulted into starting 10. Pollard is the only young flyhlf who went straight out of the Juniors into match winner against the ABs. I think he is still the same player and our best option as starting 10.....Willemse on the bench.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 Mar 2018, 10:42
#25
31 Mar 2018, 10:42#25

Agree Moz that is the way to proceed.  Didn't see the whole Sharks/Blues game but from what  saw Du Preez looki ng good

— END OF THREAD —

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