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FORUM / RUGBY /  Willemse at 10 is a worry

Willemse at 10 is a worry

Started by Saffolk 54 REPLIES5,854 VIEWS· 30 Aug 2022, 11:52
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 11:52
#1
30 Aug 2022, 11:52#1
But with Pollard and Jantjies injured there was no other option Willemse is not great at 10. His hand to foot is slow Am is a big loss. With PSDT also injured in comes useless Mostert when it should have been Elrigh Louw Bok side for 2nd test: 15. Willie 14. Moodie 13. Kriel 12. de Allende 11. Mapimpi 10. Willemse 9. Hendrikse 1. Kitshoff 2. Marx 3. Malherbe 4. Etzebeth 5. Lood 6. Kolisi 7. Mostert 8. Wiese 16. Fourie 17. Oz 18. Nyakane 19. Kwagga 20. Vermeulen 21. Reinach 22. Frans 23. Gelant
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
30 Aug 2022, 12:11
#2
30 Aug 2022, 12:11#2

I would have started Kwagga 

XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
30 Aug 2022, 12:26
#3
30 Aug 2022, 12:26#3

What people don't understand is that if Marx Starts Kwagga and Duane will be on the bench and vice versa. Siya and PSDT/Mostert are not gonna get turnovers anywhere near as much as those three.

Deon is an interesting selection. Could it be that Marx goes full 80 and we end the game with four fetchers, Marx, Fourie, Smith and Vermeulen??

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
30 Aug 2022, 12:44
#4
30 Aug 2022, 12:44#4

Ja, it's called all hands on deck

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
30 Aug 2022, 12:50
#5
30 Aug 2022, 12:50#5

We should rather refer to the likes of Marx and Vermeulen as "lean overs"... as they do not "fetch" the ball at all.

We have room for a genuine fetcher but that spot is taken.

I too would have started with Kwagga at 6. Apart from playing the much needed fetcher role, he at least knows which direction to run in.

Mostert is not a flank. That is a stupid selection.

Deon Fourie is 35 years old. Why is he in the mix ... and why is he cover for Marx? I thought Dweeb was the man for the future.

Vermeulen is 36 years old. Slow, ineffective, useless.

Fat Frans Steyn is 35 years old. Overweight, out of shape, has man boobs and a belly bigger than Redneck's.

Reinach is 32 years old. Cant believe he's still being considered for duty.

Is this a rugby team or an old age home?

You cannot tell me we are building for next years WC with these elderly out of form hasbeens?




 

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
30 Aug 2022, 12:51
#6
30 Aug 2022, 12:51#6

Great quota team. Again.

With the controversial call on the hit, the refereeing will be a point of focus. It will not be a surprise if an even more biased for SA rugby reffing is produced as a way  of preventing tantrums from being thrown.

A win would soothe and avoid escalation.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
30 Aug 2022, 12:54
#7
30 Aug 2022, 12:54#7

Could it be that Marx goes full 80 and we end the game with four fetchers, Marx, Fourie, Smith and Vermeulen??

What a nightmarish thought. SA rugby taking the scoreboard control through their usual spoiling strategies and ruining the rest of the game as the biased ref keeps seeing on feet contests when they obviously are not.

Memorable match to come. Game of the year.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
30 Aug 2022, 12:57
#8
30 Aug 2022, 12:57#8

Willemse is not great at 10. His hand to foot is slow

Punting is all that matters. If that guy is  the designated punter and he is reliable enough, then he fits his part.

If he is, then doing nothing else is harmless as he is expected to do nothing more anyway.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,227 posts
30 Aug 2022, 13:32
#9
30 Aug 2022, 13:32#9

Faff has been dropped from the match-day squad altogether. He is playing terrible, so that is no surprise. 

Jessie Kriel is shit. I would rather try Gelant at 13 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,227 posts
30 Aug 2022, 13:32
#10
30 Aug 2022, 13:32#10

Faff has been dropped from the match-day squad altogether. He is playing terrible, so that is no surprise. 

Jessie Kriel is shit. I would rather try Gelant at 13 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 13:34
#11
30 Aug 2022, 13:34#11
Bullshit Kriel is good at 13
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,227 posts
30 Aug 2022, 13:47
#12
30 Aug 2022, 13:47#12

2 centres that cant pass more than 5 metres.
Both are one-dimensional cart horses that seek contact, even when they have overlaps.

I don't remember ever seeing Jessie Kriel pass, and if he can even make a basic pass - I suspect like Delande he cant pass right, only left. 

At least Gelant has a good pass. John Mitchell was considering him as a 13 because he has a good pass and playmaking ability. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 13:57
#13
30 Aug 2022, 13:57#13
Bullshit there is nothing wrong with DA’s or Kriel’s passing - you are speaking utter shit re Kriel who has good pace and a great step The only issue with Kriel is when he plays out of position, he also lacks game time at 13 for the Boks plus plays his rugby in Japan which sees all Jap based players off their game - they lack the sharp edge Our centres are great players playing a restricted game plan. Only an ignorant observer like yourself will have us believe our players are so shit Wake up to reality - you don’t become world beaters being shit players and good players don’t just suddenly become shit - they do become old and washed up which is not yet the case with our centres other than Frans
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
30 Aug 2022, 13:59
#14
30 Aug 2022, 13:59#14
Kriel or Gelant at 13 makes no difference with Duh Allende at 12.DdA must have compromising photos of Rassie and Jacques.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 14:25
#15
30 Aug 2022, 14:25#15
You idiots have no idea - DA plays to a game plan which is to take contact It’s the same reason we see the likes of Vermeulen and Wiese at 8 - it’s head down and crash If we were looking to play expansive rugby we would see Roos at 8 and DA being encouraged to take it wide or be more creative - something he is more than capable of doing You fools just don’t get it
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,227 posts
30 Aug 2022, 15:01
#16
30 Aug 2022, 15:01#16

I have watched Delande for ages, long before he was a Bok. 
He has strengths and weaknesses. 

He can't pass, it is that simple. I have never once seen him make a long pass. 
His pathetic kick pass when there are overlaps confirms this. 

He can make short pop passes to his left, but you never see him pass right.
Those that played rugby in school will remember that most people pass better left than right, but we expect a professional rugby player to be able to do this.

Even Jean Devilliers says Delande is not a conventional inside centre. He is big and strong, but more like a forward than a backline player.

I am so tired of watching Delande carry the ball up, and get gang tackled because everyone is waiting for him to do it.

As for Kriel, he is just shit. He will die with the ball every time. His defence is solid, but his attacking game is not test standard. 

How can you choose 2 centres that cant pass?

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
30 Aug 2022, 15:08
#17
30 Aug 2022, 15:08#17

What???  ... SharkShit has a brain? 

It might be a very small brain ... but there is definite grey matter working there.

How does it feel thinking for yourself, hey SharkShit?

Good huh!!?

Congratulations!!!

I agree ... Kriel is a very poor choice at 13 and putting him outside the selfish De Lindy is probably the wort thing you could do. Utter madness.

The two worst possible choices for our midfield has now been selected.

Neither can pass ... neither know how to defend  ... neither can create ... and in all honesty the mere fact that both have single digit IQ's is rather worrying.  

It would have been better to bring Elton "Panic Stricken" Jantjies in at 10 with Willemse to 12 and the useless Kriel at 13.

He'll at least see a bit of ball. What he does with it is another story. 

Also ... blaming De Lindies inability to play properly on a so called game plan is nonsense.

He knows nothing else. 

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2022, 15:24
#18
30 Aug 2022, 15:24#18

So here are a few issues:

Willie can create but nobody can finish nowAm is gone.

Moody should surely have had at least a few bench runs….and he gets Koroibete.

Jessie Kriel is not a good defender…witness Japan, witness the ABs. He is a frenetic player with reasonable pace and zero guile…we are way worse off without AM

Dud Allende has got even worse now that somebody has tried to add tactical kicking to his arsenal

Mapimpi is a finisher who can’t finish.

What’s Willemse’s approach as a test flyhalf? Can he make the kicks. A running flyhalf with a crashball non passing center seems contradictory, why not give Esterhozen a shot with Willemse

Hendrikse is going to get charged for a try soon…he is not aware enough

The front row is a gift but why waste it on this team. Five scrumming penalties might help.

Etzebeth and Lomp are better than any other available combo in test rugby…but the Aussie locks are decent and did a good job of negating them

Kolisi  can play for about 10 minutes then he gets brain fog, will it be the right 10 minutes.

Mostert is a huge step up on Dud Toit, much more where it counts.

Wiese will put in a lot of work, but he will get penalized ….how much will it cost us.


We almost seem to throwing games these days. Perhaps this team will be up to play….a sort of AB second test reversal. But on paper we look much less likely to win.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 16:39
#19
30 Aug 2022, 16:39#19
Mostert a huge step up from PSDT - Moz that is insulting Mostert is utterly fucking useless especially as a 7 To prove it - here is a challenge for you. Watch him closely this Saturday and let’s reconvene post match He is utterly useless - zero physical grunt and absolutely at sea when it comes to 7
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 16:58
#20
30 Aug 2022, 16:58#20
Shark you are speaking utter shit - DA can pass as well as any other centre out there be it short or long Jean has never said that about DA you are lying What has been said about DA by Schalk Brits is that he is one of the most gifted players he has ever played with but people fail to recognise the fact that he is playing to a plan That plan got us to number 1, WC champs, RC and a Lions series. Are you seriously too fucking stupid to comprehend this? We all now acknowledge that the plan needs to change as the world know how to counter it. But Neinaber has not worked that out yet so DA will continue to crash it up under instruction Fuck me are you people too stupid to work this obvious fact out? Say we replaced DA with Esterhuizen, do you think anything will change, do you think Esterhuizen would look to offload in contact? NO he would not as that’s not the plan. The plan is to keep it narrow not to offload to the next player taking the contact point further away from the support players thereby potentially isolating the player and have him turned over This technicality is obviously beyond you. You ignorantly keep blaming the players when you should be looking at the plan. When we do decide to take it wide we end up kicking possession away in the name of pressurising the opposition deep in their half - that’s part of the plan You dumb basic rugby followers don’t get it - its only the basics you understand It reminds of the school boy days when the coach said get the ball to the wing - that’s all you see. It’s the same as the fools who rate Mostert as a player - they see all the heart and energy and equate that to a good performance. When in fact his physical contributions are zero and that is insulting for a test 7 or lock
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
30 Aug 2022, 17:01
#21
30 Aug 2022, 17:01#21

Much better team, pity Am is injured. Happy with the tight five. Loose forward combo is kak and as well as the centers. 

Our 9 / 10 axis is questionable. Centers are completely rubbish. 

Back 3 is okay but not brilliant. 

All and all, way better team than last week.


MS
Mrs SearlePro1,533 posts
30 Aug 2022, 17:22
#22
30 Aug 2022, 17:22#22

What's the bet Blocks win and we hear how great this group of players are. Block fans are so fucking fickle. 

AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
30 Aug 2022, 17:40
#23
30 Aug 2022, 17:40#23

Red Nose if the Boks win will you get your mom to do a handstand as we are tired of having to observe her "Hanging Udders".

Thanks.

AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
30 Aug 2022, 17:52
#24
30 Aug 2022, 17:52#24

I for one think that this team is going to struggle in the test.

Playing with old men and players out of position is a sure sign of panic and the management team not having a solution or fall back plan.

The manager and his amature assistants simply do not have the experience or understanding for this level of rugby.

They are really square pegs in round holes or as Denny would say " Old hands on deck " experts..

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Aug 2022, 17:52
#25
30 Aug 2022, 17:52#25

"Etzebeth and Lomp are better than any other available combo in test rugby…but the Aussie locks are decent and did a good job of negating them"

Moz. Aussie hardly won any lineouts last week...or did I miss something?

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,227 posts
30 Aug 2022, 17:56
#26
30 Aug 2022, 17:56#26

The Springboks won the world cup due to the bomb squad.

South Africa has more test-level forwards than any country, so it allowed us to make like-for-like replacements with fresh players (Notice the 6/2 split). 

We just have more forward depth than any country, and this enables us to field fresh players for 80 minutes. 

When our backs play well, often is opportunism (e.g. Kolbe dancing through a brick wall of defence).  Individual brilliance rather than rehearsed team moves. 

Delande has positive attributes but show me video evidence of him making long passes. 
Don't tell me the game plan is for Delande to kick, when the Boks have 3 on 1 situation, overlaps etc.

No coach is going to tell a player to go to the ground if they have space on the outside with an overlap. 

Many South African coaches will play no rugby in their own half (unless) they have an overlap. 
The game plan is not for Delande to kill overlaps by taking contact and going to the ground.
I "hope" the game plan is not for Delande to do kick passes, as every attempt he has done of this is crap.

If it is the game plan, why does Willemse throw long passes?
The one he did for Mapimpi was world-class. We need a centre that can pass and create, not just someone who can carry into traffic.
At the very least switch the 12 and 13 on attack and defence every so often to keep the opposition guessing. 

On his day Delande is very good, but we need some more consistency and playmaking ability in the mid-field. Especially given Pollard has not been an attacking force for a long time. 

XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
30 Aug 2022, 18:44
#27
30 Aug 2022, 18:44#27

@ Saffex. 

The problem with DDA is that he no longer takes contact and gains ground, partly because our passes are so deep behind the gain line and he's taking it standing still and then runs into a gang tackle.

His passing is bad, look at the pass he gave on Saturday behind the player outside him. Also his decision making is lazy as well as bad. First thing from a turnover He kicks it away or a 3 v 1 and he puts in a kick that's executed poorly.

That's not "game plan", that's a dullard who believes he's safe in his position. 

Between him and Kriel this weekend I expect our midfield defence to be turnstiles on rollerskates. Could be worse, Pollard could be at 10.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 18:45
#28
30 Aug 2022, 18:45#28
Geez Shark wake the fuck up, I’m not saying we never play it wide, we have often seen DA make a nice break so yes it happens once we have hit phase 3 or 4 or from broken play Yes he kicked that ball to take it deep to put pressure on the opposition. There was no overlap. It’s exactly what Swys and Mallet said about that passage of play. I know for a fact DA has thrown a long pass I’m certainly not going to waste my time looking for video evidence to prove that, especially not to you who does not understand the concept of players playing to a plan. Why does DA play differently when he plays for Munster than he does for the Boks, huh? We did not win the WC because of the bomb squad, what utter shit, yes it contributed but was by no stretch defining. We won because we were physically dominant and won the aerial dual
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 18:50
#29
30 Aug 2022, 18:50#29
Xavi you are speaking shit there is nothing wrong with his passing, every player throws a shit pass from time to time Fuck me 12 is one of if not the most important positions on the field. Do you honestly think we would have achieved what we did with a shit 12 who can’t pass - you are delusional Of course DA still takes contact, he does it every game and makes good metres, its why he was so effective, it’s why the very astute Greenwood said you stop DA you stop the Boks
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
30 Aug 2022, 19:02
#30
30 Aug 2022, 19:02#30
Boete, that was 2021 and He was commenting on his WC form 2 years previously. Greenwood is probably more coked up the Keo so not as astute as you would like.
Even for Munster in the URC he was a shadow of himself. Hume and McC loskey made a fool of him when they played Ulster. 

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
30 Aug 2022, 19:12
#31
30 Aug 2022, 19:12#31

it’s why the very astute Greenwood said you stop DA you stop the Boks

No one needs to stop DA as he never gets started.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 19:22
#32
30 Aug 2022, 19:22#32
Oh boy the amount of rugby ignorance on here is astounding
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
30 Aug 2022, 19:53
#33
30 Aug 2022, 19:53#33

They don't call him Deadend De Allende for nothing. 

I like Willemse at 10, I see skill and a willingness to run the ball, kinda think he has a brain as well and in a bit of space he could be lethal. For that he needs the tight five to step up, forget the loose trio, it's a lucky packet with nothing in it....... same again for the back line. Gotta feel for 19yr old Moodie though, he's about to cop the initiation from Hell, a mix match of a team lacking in confidence on away turf....who exactly does he turn to for a bit of confidence and inspiration? Let's pray for a miracle.

Anyone keen on a couple of freebie tickets....comes with a dose of embarrassment.....and there's plenty of that as well.

No need to thank me

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Aug 2022, 19:54
#34
30 Aug 2022, 19:54#34

Bokke by 10.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 20:43
#35
30 Aug 2022, 20:43#35
Willemse is crap at 10 don’t be shocked to see a kick charged down
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
30 Aug 2022, 20:56
#36
30 Aug 2022, 20:56#36

I'm excited to see Moodie debut, one for the future for sure. Zas 11 Arendse 14 , Moodie 15. Jaden and Jordan @ 9&10 respectively. Willemse @12 and I'm sure Saffex can find a young 13 we haven't heard of yet. (Not Simelane). Brewing nicely for post 2023.

https://youtu.be/OPlkbe_cIEs

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2022, 21:15
#37
30 Aug 2022, 21:15#37
15. Fassi 14. Nkosi 13. Xamlashe 12. Willemse 11. Moodie 10. Hendrikse 9. Hendrikse
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
30 Aug 2022, 23:56
#38
30 Aug 2022, 23:56#38

Saffex, I could have sworn you picked a team for the 2nd test in the last day or so and had dropped DDA but now you are extolling his non-existent virtues once more?

And Kriel has a step?? Don't make me laugh! My unabiding memory of Kriel was when I was at Twickers for the 2015 RWC semi vs the ABs. Almost in the first couple of minutes of the game Kriel was put through a large gap and had acres of space to attack the ABs with. What did he do? Raced up, stuttered and ran straight into a tackler (can't remember who) and the promising move died right there!

If the Boks had scored then, there could have been a completely different result.

So, I can't wait for this magical sidestep on Saturday..........

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
31 Aug 2022, 06:00
#39
31 Aug 2022, 06:00#39

Shame about the injuries - very surprising to see Frans still in the mix - is it just me or doesnt his conditioning look so good atm...?

I think Boks will go close to winning this one - Wobs seem to play one good one bad - time for the latter... 

On side note bumped into Kurtley & Bernard at a semi final at local footy last weekend - I'd be guessing similar age to Frans... but I can tell you both these boys looking a lot fitter...

All the best and hopefully we have a good game not marred by idiot refs from Bryce land...

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
31 Aug 2022, 06:06
#40
31 Aug 2022, 06:06#40

Fair call.....GL.

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