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FORUM / RUGBY /  Willemse has to be smarter....

Willemse has to be smarter....

Started by Mozart16 REPLIES472 VIEWS· 24 Oct 2018, 17:53
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Oct 2018, 17:53
#1
24 Oct 2018, 17:53#1
....his overly aggressive, poor positional play enabled the last NZ try. Now here's Stransky making the same point about his flyhalf play. About time somebody took off the rose coloured specs. Joel Stransky says Damian Willemse should retain the Western Province No 10 jersey for Saturday’s Currie Cup final but play more conservatively. MARIETTE ADAMS reports. The 1995 World Cup-winning flyhalf, who won the 1990 Currie Cup with Natal before going on to represent WP, told SARugbymag.co.za that neither team should alter their starting lineups. ‘When you’ve got a settled environment, you don’t go change the recipe,’ he said. ‘My first reaction is that both flyhalves should start again. They’ve played pretty well; granted Western Province had a huge scare and could well have lost against the Bulls last weekend. ‘It’s about consistency now. There’s not much you can do in one week, in terms of changing the way you go about things and the way you do things. I wouldn’t change anything.’ While Stransky believes Willemse should start again at the expense of Josh Stander, he says WP’s 20-year-old Springbok should stifle his attacking instincts in favour of a more effective kicking game. ‘Damian is unbelievably exciting from a running perspective. He has pace and is a great stepper, all those exciting attributes you want to see in a running game. But I’m not sure a final is suited for that sort of open game where you can go and play like that from the start. ‘If there’s a gap in a moment you can steal it, but it’s not something you can force in a final. You have to wait for the opportunity as opposed to creating the opportunity. He has to be a little more conservative.’ Stransky said Sharks flyhalf Rob du Preez’s style of play would benefit the Sharks at Newlands. ‘Rob is a big kid, strong and powerful. He gets over the gainline and is strong defensively. He has controlled things well for the Sharks with his kicking game and that’ll suit them in this final.’ Like Willemse, Du Preez also made his Test debut earlier this year and Stransky says how the two Springbok teammates measure up in terms of handling the pressure will be pivotal to the outcome. ALSO READ: Five key battles at Newlands ‘There’s no need to worry about bonus points and permutations anymore. They don’t have to worry about anything other than winning, even if it’s close, tight and ugly. ‘When you play winning rugby, two things happen. One is the team that defends best will probably win. And if it’s a strong defensive effort from both sides, whoever makes the most of their opportunities takes it. ALSO READ: WP-Sharks have dished up thrilling finals ‘When you get into a final and the nerves of playing in an arena with a big crowd and the pressure that comes with a game of this magnitude hits, it’ll be important to play slightly more conservatively and certainly with a stronger kicking game. ‘Rob and Damian are both smart kickers and when a team has a strong kicking game it brings the back three into play a lot more, particularly the likes of Dillyn Leyds and Curwin Bosch. ‘It will be a fascinating battle at No 10.’
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
24 Oct 2018, 18:11
#2
24 Oct 2018, 18:11#2

That's the first insightful thing I have ever heard from Stransky. I happen to agree as well. Be what the game requires you to be. Think Quade Cooper. His ist effective games were where he just did his job. Australia even managed to beat New Zealand. Solo running becomes too predictable. Wild, forced fancy passes cause pressure for your teammates. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Oct 2018, 18:20
#3
24 Oct 2018, 18:20#3

Read the crap as normal is a waste of time.

There is one aspect that needs attention and that is that Willemse still has some finer  points needing attention and that is necessary in the case of a youngster.   

The rest of the nonsense is typically Mozart and AO - not at all anything but crap.  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
24 Oct 2018, 18:28
#4
24 Oct 2018, 18:28#4

Okay Mr. Clever, Willemse must then

  1. Run every ball
  2. Force high risk passes 
  3. Not kick
  4. Ignore situational rugby and be contrary to the context of the game 
Anything else is nothing but crap. Right? 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Oct 2018, 18:49
#5
24 Oct 2018, 18:49#5

Your statement above is crap to the core.   What the  is wrong with you?   

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
24 Oct 2018, 20:46
#6
24 Oct 2018, 20:46#6

Stransky played for both WP and the Sharks, but this looks like he is willing WP to lose.

Josh Stander was part of the team that got WP to the final by playing a certain brand of rugby. Willemse is a sure tallent,  but he is not part of the CC team in the same way as Josh and he was partly to blame for the poor match against the Bools by seriously deviating from the normal game plan. If WP is going to try and play finals rugby on Saturday, they will lose. 

I'm not saying they should go Spartan, but they should st least stay true to the game that got them to the finals.

GO WP!!!!

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
24 Oct 2018, 22:13
#7
24 Oct 2018, 22:13#7

Willemse still has lots to prove. First and foremost a flyhalf must be a decision maker to take the best options. 
1. ) Option taking2. ) being the complete package. 
If a player is a complete package, they are at least capable of playing the various options- assuming they can read the play. Although being physically capable does not mean they are mentally capable of taking the best options. So if they don't take the right options, being the complete package is redundant. 
If a player has limitations like Morne Steyn, then their option taking must account for this- even if it means fewer options are on the table.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Oct 2018, 08:59
#8
25 Oct 2018, 08:59#8

In general there are always cases where youngsters make mistakes due to inexperience.   I do not think there ever was a case whe re such mistakes were not in evidence.   

One must never make the mistake of seeing such and then claim it is career-defining.   

One of my problems is that here we have a youngster here who used to play at flyhalf and inside center on school level and otherwise at flyhalf for the Stormers.  Now on Springbok level he is used as a bench full back and some members claimed he was to blame for being out of position iro the last try of the AB's in Pretoria.   Not sure if that claim is sustainable in view of the preceding sequence of play - but leave it there.

Every young player on test level has to learn a lot of the game and I would never have used Willemse as replacement full back.  To my mind he should be the bench flyhalf and another player should be there  to cover the outside backs positions.   This is in fact one point where I have problems with Erasmus selections.

Another issue is that I do not think single incidents at that stage of a youngsters career is necessarily career-defining - I would rather say it is part of the learning curve of such a player.

Be it as it may I think that with proper coaching an already good player will develop into a great player.   He is still only 20 years of age.

Mention is made of Morne Steyn as well.  He played in 2003 in the then Under 21 WC and was a mess in the final in Argentina.   He missed all his kicks at goal in that match and his decision-making was horrible.   In 2003 he started his career at the Bulls and only 6 years later he became a Springbok at age 25.   If there was one major deficiency Morne always had it was decision-making.  

That compared to the 20 year old Willemse showed some clear differences already.  I think that Willemse has all the qualities of developing into a top class flyhalf and will wait and see how he develops before going on a witch hunt against him. 

   

     

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
25 Oct 2018, 09:40
#9
25 Oct 2018, 09:40#9
He is 20. Not yet ready for test rugby or even proven himself at SR. What is SA and it's coaches obsession with youth. Oh, we need to meet our quota numbers. Now we run the risk of messing up, yet again another young player. The kid needs to be around for at least another 3 years.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
25 Oct 2018, 09:42
#10
25 Oct 2018, 09:42#10
... And we run risk of being struck with a quota label
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Oct 2018, 11:18
#11
25 Oct 2018, 11:18#11

Willemse is extremely talented and where he will end up in not cast in stone as of yet.

What is certain is that 15 is the position he should concentrate on as of now. He will find 15 less difficult and he has ALL the attributes to make a great success of that position.

He will be more dangerous at 15 as he has more space to work with and there is far less traffic. His ability to cut a line makes him extremely dangerous and this talent is best used at 15.

Take it form Beeno the one who knows!

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
25 Oct 2018, 13:00
#12
25 Oct 2018, 13:00#12

Announced months ago. This player's qualities do not fit with SA anti rugby approach.

He is now asked to turn into another player in order to hide the shortcomings in SA rugby.

Any run this player takes is a risk to expose the lack of game flow understanding his typical SA rugby team mates have.

Anything a bit spontaneous is a threat to throw off their legs a typical SA rugby player who is condemned to follow a step by step approach to rugby. Grind or die.


This player would be better off by exploring his options in the north, players of his skin colour are treated fairly and assessed on their qualities, contrary to the failing SA rugby white monopoly.

Find a team in the north and go to grow.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
25 Oct 2018, 13:02
#13
25 Oct 2018, 13:02#13

Oh, we need to meet our quota numbers.


There is no needs to meet the quota numbers as they are not met.


There is an emergency though to conceal that rugby, after all these years, is still not an activity familiar to the majority of the population.

There is no tradition of rugby in SA.

Terminate rugby in SA, it has been tainting the game for too long.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
25 Oct 2018, 13:09
#14
25 Oct 2018, 13:09#14

Probably interesting to draw some parralels between Dyanti and Willemse.

One has gotten a good run this year and the other hasnt...both being of similar age and similar experience prior to the start of the 2018 international season.

Dyanti managed to do some spectacular things and mess up a good few times as well. On balance though, he did more good than bad and now has a full season of test rugby under his belt. So probably a good outcome for him and for the Boks on the whole.

Willemse has had about as limited a run in 2018 as a can be form a Bok perspective. The difference btween him and Dyanti is in their positions. Willemse's position requires a lot more thinking and crucial decision making than Dyanti's. If he plays 10 or 15...both are crucial numbers and messups can result in huge momentum shifts.

On balance i agree with the sentiment that he'd probably benefit from at least one more season of SR before truly being a contender for a starting spot or understudy to either Pollard or Willie.

Does look like he's easily got what it takes though.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Oct 2018, 14:07
#15
25 Oct 2018, 14:07#15
What it takes at flyhalf is brains and a flyhalf model that works under test pressure. I'm not sure he has either, time will tell.....but he made two test losing type blunders in the short time he was on the park. And I don't recall anything particularly positive from the Junior WC either. Think of the succesful test flyhalves of the last 20 years....Larkham, Butch, Carter, Morne, Barrett, Sexton......these are the guys who have won the big matches and big tournaments. The only one of these who is a dangerous runner is Barrett....and half of NZ thinks he is a fullback.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Oct 2018, 20:55
#16
25 Oct 2018, 20:55#16


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Oct 2018, 21:04
#17
25 Oct 2018, 21:04#17

I get the impression that he tries a bit too hard. He should just settle down a bit and play his natural game.

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