Willie has to go

Dave I agree that Willie has to go but Willemse to start in the final is going to be such a big step up not sure that he will be able to deal with the pressure of the final and the English at this stage of his career.

Gelant as you have stated has issues.

Kolbe if healthy is a shoe in for the wing and #15 but what does Erasmus want from him for this final is the question.

So who else.....Frans?

What a difference a week makes....

Sharkbok

Oct 22, 2019, 19:42

"Too late to try Kolbe at XV, as we dont know if it will sacrifice his attacking game- especially if the game plan is to kick bombs from the back."

 Oct 27, 2019, 23:28

"I have been calling for Kolbe at XV for a while now given he is the best under the high ball, has a better clearance kick, is a better defender- at least compared to Willie- and he may get more space to counter attack." 

Saffex

Oct 22, 2019, 19:38

"Agreed I would not drop Willie." 

"Disagree Rooi, I thought Willie was good on his return last year thanks to Rassie as Coetzee had previously ignored him."

"I think the problem is we don’t have a viable alternative to Willie right now"

And just to clear up any doubts on whether Willie Le Roux is out of form or whether he lacks the skill set under the high ball let alone poor option taking with his dumb chip kicks have a look at the RWC quarterfinal Wales vs South Africa 2015. There are numerous other examples in several other tests but the below proves that his problems are nothing new and that it has nothing to do with being "out of form."

Minute: 17.21

Minute: 44.12

Case closed.

It's always entertaining to read what these two self proclaimed rugby geniuses spout on here.

One can liken it to the same standard of comedy you get from watching Moe and Curly do their thing.

Whatever would we do without Sharkshit and Stupid Dave?

No. What you still don't get is that Willie's problem is not a lack of form.......you speak of mere weeks, your tjommie Koosie and yours truly have been on about him for years. Clean your lenses or catch a wake up.

Don't waste my time, have a squiz at the time stamps of Wales vs South Africa quarterfinal RWC 2015.

Minute: 17.21

Minute: 44.12

And oh, forget Willemse as a replacement.......it's the RWC final you dumb cluck.

Stick with Willie. 

As if Willie was the only one miss a high ball when high balls we raining down all match. 

Stick with Willie. 

As if Willie was the only one miss a high ball when high balls we raining down all match. 

Funny....for yonks Koosie and myself have been banging away at Willie's dumb chip kicks which incidentally never materialised into anything good,  a poor option but also there's his takes under the high ball which has suddenly not only gotten under the microscope of a few posters but also a few rugby scribes. Added to this his once reliable hands are letting him down as well......the ankle height pass to Kolbe with a beckoning tryline in sight and again the forward pass with air to beat running to the tryline.

Form has nothing to do with it, there's an abundance of evidence of his poor skillset going back years.

Suck it up, Willie is a liability and has been for a long, long time.

If half the players described as useless were indeed so the Boks would have lost to Namibia. 

I trust Rassie to make the correct decision. 

Save some of your excuses for after the game, don't outsmart yourself by using all of them now because believe me you're going to need them. There'll be a few raining down on Willie with his name written on it.

Dave

I must agree with you -Willie was not really effective this year.  I would rather see him replaced because to my mind he has been found out by foreign coaches and they have worked out how they should play to reduce the threat he provides in  matches.

The question is who should replace Willie in the starting line-up.  .   There are obviously 3 candidates:-

*  The first one always mentioned is Steyn, but I am afraid I do not think he will be up to standard,  I always distrust players whose club contracts have not been renewed and would rather not see him at full back where he played for mostly in the past year for Montpellier.  Despite all the noise to the contrary Steyn ddoes not have the pace to get to balls.   If h is 20 meters from where a kick is landing and the nearest chaser is 30metersfrom that spot -the chaser will get to the ball before him.   That will always e a problem with a slow full back.  Opposing players will not runto him  they will just run past him.   For me he is not the player that can deliver at full back.

*    The second player on the list is Gelant.  He is a strong ball carrier - but also rather pace-deficient and his kicking game is not what it should be.  

*     Willemse would not be all that well-known to the English and may be the surprise package that would be difficult to deal with,by them.   He is very fast and slippery s well and from what I have seen of him on both test level and Super Rugby level is good under high balls.  He is not as inexperienced as some claims him to be and would be my first choice to replace  Willie,   fact is that with three real speedsters in the back triangle it could be a serious problem for the English.   

Fact is if I was the selector the team would look likethe following:-

15   Willemse

14    Kolbe

13    Am

12    De Allende

11    Mapimpi

10    Pollard

  9    De Klerk

  8    Vermeulen

  7    Du Toit

  6    Kolisi

  5    De Jager

  4    Etzebeth

  3    Malherbe

  2    Marx

  1    Mtawarire

16    Mbonambi

17   Kitshoff

18   Koch

19   Snyman

20   Louw

21   Reinach

22   Le Roux

23   Nkosi

I think Erasmus realize that there is a need for a variation in play and he may just come up with the team as indicated.            

Leave the team as is...they are a unit, removing the weakest link might break the link altogether and cause more disruption than is worth the gain. All I would change is when we unload the bench.

New front row at about 50 min...keep the locks on longer. Eben must stay on as long as possible to keep Itoje in check. Itoje started to rumble when Eben left the field at Twickers last year...and the momentum shifted in England's' favor.

Rest of the bench no sooner than the last 10. We don't want a repeat of Loftus last year.

We can start talking about fiddling with the team after the WC.

Let's face it Dave.....Nkosi was out of his depth. A liability who fortunately didn't cost us. Now we want to try Willemse in a WC final. Surely not!

With Willlie seriously flopping in all matches he played in what really is the use of having him in the team in the final?

There is zero  chance Eraser will start Willemse in a WC final....he isn't  that stupid.

Because replacing him (Willie) might disrupt the cohesion of the team and the replacement might be even worse. A RWC final is not the place to make unforced changes to a team.

No Mozart

Not as dud stupid as you are suggesting that Steyn replaces De Allende in the team.

Dud stupid I agree....double Dud stupid. 

Lots of opinions, here are a few facts:

5.16 Halfpenny and Willie wrestle for the high ball, HP wins.

6.20 Good high ball take by Willie.

16.28 Willie's silly offside.

25.00 Willie fluffs a difficult pick up off the ground under advantage.

27.44 Willie runs the key support line off Am's break, he started next to Allende who didn't bother to run, one more support runner was a try.

30.15 Great Willie take  in the air HP penalized for interference.

45.23 Willie spills a sitter near touch.

48.00 Can't  secure a contested high ball.

Early second half two excellent Willie U&Us....both recovered by the Boks.

68.05 Excellent contested high ball take by Willie

....

So there were plenty of contributions ....rather spoiled by his silly penalty and the easy ball he dropped near touch.But his positional play was excellent, his own u&u's were pin point and when there was a rare backline break he was a key participant.

He isn't perfect and I know I was critical of his game a couple of days ago but he is the only playmaker in that team. Can that ability be replaced? Because there is absolutely nothing going on ball in hand in that team . Willie has good vision and I think under a better coaching team he is world class again. 

Fatboy.....you've lost it with the Willie debate, wipe the froth from your mouth you only have yourself to be blamed. Kicking and screaming is not good for your well being and it only makes you look like a bigger Dik if that's humanly possible.

Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger as the saying goes. 

But what does it say about Willie flying under your radar and now in shock horror on the eve of the WC final you want him dropped? 

You really are a mess, Fatboy.

Anyway, I'm glad we're on the same page regarding Willie, I'm always happy to assist just don't be afraid to ask. 

And about Willemse, give it a miss, surely you're not that dumb to suggest introducing an inexperienced kid to the biggest stage in world rugby.....the world cup final? 

Oh alright, maybe I've missed something.....is that how a self styled rugby genius thinks?

Oh Dear, he must be an even bigger show pony

Leroux was the preferred fullback, then Daly must have played on the wing

Denise I stand by my Willie take

You always stand by your take. And what may I ask is that?

Is that the one where you want him dropped on the eve of the WC final?

BTW are your meds proving ineffective? ..posting in the middle of the night now huh?

Good, he's gone back to bed. Sweet dreams Fatboy, the board will still be here tomorrow.

Oct 29, 2019, 02:41