FORUM / RUGBY / With so much depth...Why do we still have these problems!!

With so much depth...Why do we still have these problems!!

Started by Boklogic21 REPLIES1,006 VIEWS· 17 Jun 2013, 04:34

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Boklogic

Pro1,978 posts

BoklogicPro1,978 posts

17 Jun 2013, 04:34

17 Jun 2013, 04:34#1

I get so irritated that the Boks get shown up at a breakdown. This should never happen. Not even against the slimy Wallabies who are masters at "dirty" tactics. Year in and year out, we produce superstar loose forwards but still we end up getting dominated by a depleted Scottish side and worst of all, we saw it happening and stood back and watched!

Why?? Because the players on the field were no better than the Scots and we handed them the advantage.

Spies - Fucken pussy. He has always been a flat track bully. He will put 3 tries on the board against Namibia but wont be seen against the AB's. Never heard his name this weekend except for when he dropped that uncontested up and under. Useless. Vermuelen is twice the player Spies is and thats when he is injured!

Kolisi - Had a decent game but he is never going to make an impact against "better" opposition and we must talk about the AB's here. That is the bench mark. We can not play test matches with small, ineffective forwards. If he was a fetcher, maybe but he is not and that is just wasting acrucial position. He adds nothing in terms of the physical game plan the Boks adopt. A liability!

Coetzee - Like Kolisi, a one season wonder. Coetzee is stuck between being bigger than average but smaller than "big" needs to be at test level for the Boks. Ineffective, run of the mill player. Nothing special.

We used to have Schalk and Smith (special players) and that allowed Spies to go awol a bit because of the work they do. We dont have that anymore and we are not playing our next crop of special players (Serfontein is one for the backs). SA needs to trim the fat (as they did with Kanko). Way too many passengers getting a free ride like that soft cock Spies. Baffles me that he is so big yet so ineffective.

We should only have guys like Louw. Alberts, Vermuelen, Labuschagne, Botha, Philip Smit and Elstadt come into contention for the Boks. Brussouw too if he can recapture that form that made him "special!" Test rugby is about the countries elite. Kolisi, Coetzee and co are not elite players. They are run of the mill. Good enough for Italy and Namibia maybe but thats why they dont beat the Boks and AB's!

If 6. Louw, 7. Alberts, 8. Botha can not play, we filter in guys like Labuschagne, Smit, Elstadt. Even Steph Du Toit can do a job whilst he is primed for lock!

I just dont understand why we are still seeing guys like Daniel, Kolisi, Jacques Potgieter, Coetzee and co in and around the Bok squad. Hell, we let guys like CJ Stander move on! Madness. You will never see the AB's play Latimer, Saili, George Whitelock (ex AB), Luke Whitelock in their team as they are not the best they have currently yet all 4 of those guys would have been Boks no doubt!!

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

17 Jun 2013, 08:44

17 Jun 2013, 08:44#2

Boklogic The main reason for the Springbok selection lies with the coach and what he does about it. He is absolutely addicted to selection of Bulls players above everything else - and cannot see when they under-perform. Meyer stated that he is concerned about quick and effective ball recovery from breakdowns - and even appointed to advise players how to improve in that regard - yet he keeps on selecting players that was deficient in the relevant regard and where the expert advice would not be implemented as theplayers who did not do so in the past - will be patently unable to do so in future. Of the loosies who played on Saturday not a single one can ever recover balls in breakdowns and they will not be able to do so in future. Spies is not an effective player in any facet of the game. Kolisi is suddenly the flavour of the month - because he played so well on Saturday - but normally he is ineffective in most components of the game. He is a relevant light weight with statistically a fairly low tackle count with . Likely to be a one-test wonder that against top class opposition would vanish into insignificance- as he did regularly do on Super 15 level. He is particularly poor in breakdown ball recovery. Of the other loosies - Spies never really performed on an acceptable level at no 8. Botha will not be available this year at all, Alberts is a lock that has been tried with limited success as a loosie and Coetzee was very good at Super 15 last year - but never really successful on test level and insignificant in Super 15 this year. The latter two plays no role in breakdown ball recovery at all. We have no real depth in loosie performances at this stage purely because Meyer is selecting players that cannot do the job properly He ignores completely the playersthat can play a positive role and select players with limited capacity. That is why players like Elstadt, Engelbrecht and Labuschagne - that can make adifference to the scenario is no considered. We do not have a shortage of good props - but Meyer keeps on selecting a player like Jannie du Plessis that under-performed in Super 15 this year and in some matches was played from the bench by the Sharks. H is not up to standard anymore. The prop selection is where Meyer is letting his own team down badly. Where we have a bit of a crisis is in fact at lock. The real thing is we have lost Bekker and the selection of Kruger is an insult to intelligence - he is poor in all matches he plays in. We have Etzebeth - but no real support at present. The obvious other choice is Du Toit - but he will only be available as from mid-September. I would rather pick De Jager at 4 and Etzebeth at 5 - with Flip on the bench. When Du Toit is back - we would have a much better situation and the young Jacques Du Plessis can also develop further as a lock. The other place we have problems is at scrummie. Vermaak is really nothing above average, Hougaard has deteriorated badly and so has Pienaar. Of the other players Van Zyl is good and Reinach above average - however the latter is also injured. With Goosen out and Steyn being a poor flyhalf on international level - we have only Lambie to fall back on. I hope Goosen will be available at least for the EOYT. The above gives a relatively poor reflection of what we have available in certain positions - but the main problem we have is a coach who cannot see beyond certain deficient players - especially the perennially poor Bulls players. The real reason is probably the latter one. If he takes less not of the Bulls players and look at real performers elsewhere - we will have a really effective and performing team.

Beeno1

Captain40,032 posts

Beeno1Captain40,032 posts

17 Jun 2013, 12:44

17 Jun 2013, 12:44#3

The Bok loose trio was a no, no. But I think spies was the only really daft choice. Arno got injured so we are talking about Coetzee and Kolisi. Both were no too bad and kolisi earned a man of he match award.

However I agree with Boklogic that none of the three look to have a bright Bok future at the moment. Spies will never make a test class 8. Boklogic , Spies isn't so big in any case 108 kg - but does not have the heart of a forward. Kolisi and Coetzee are young and I am loath to write of youngsters as with hard work they can improve. Fact though is that Kolisi is just over 100 kg and Coetzee 106 kg. Unless they can offer superb skills and pace they wont make it. I would dread either of them playing in a test against Oz or the abs for example.

I think Spies and Juandre are there for the experience side of things . Juandre is fairly busy and I would think his stats would support this. However I still maintain with his pace 7 is better option for him. He does not have the clout a top lock needs.

One can crit meyer re Spies etc but if Louw, Alberts and Vermuelen were fit would he be there? We are also missing Burger, Elsatdt, Rhodes and now Arno. Would Kolisi and Coetzee be part of the mix barring injuries.

At lock Bekker in his prime has departed. Du Toit is injured. So we would need to Flip and Etzebeth or De Jager and Etzebeth. However Meyer thinks one lock new to test rugby is enough. Personally I would prefer De Jager to Juandre.

Beast has been underperforming for some years. He cannot sustain an 80 minute game and his work outside the scrum has deteriorated, His driving of the ball up is not very effective. I see him and jannie as support for the youngsters. It was very unfortunate that Malherbe was injured and ditto Marcell van der Merwe. Kitshof is about a year off test level.

Yes Meyer has made some errors straying on the conservative side. He doesnt want to go into the RC with no experience. Unfortunately due to injury he is left with a group of experienced players who are not up to it.

In the backline the injury to Vermaak was a pity as was the injury to Reinach. Goosen being out was a great pity and the loss of JP is a real blow.

Again we are dealing with a huge number of top players out. Yet little cognisance of this is taken. We have good player depth but its not endless!!! What should have been great years for both the Sharks and Stormers turned sour because of the 36 injuries these two squads suffered (And bent nz refs). Likewise the Bok propects are turning sour because of undue injuries. (My list of departed or injured players is no doubt missing names)

One hears comments that coaches dont take the advice given by the Sports Institute but given these levels of injuries we have reached a crises point and a full investigation needs to be performed. Next how to stop the player drain and improve coaching/skills. Finally deal with quotas and bent nz refs. These are the key challenges.

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

17 Jun 2013, 12:59

17 Jun 2013, 12:59#4

I really love the way everybody is so adamant that Coetzee wont make it ....now! When I suggested at the start of this year he would never, ever make a Bok flank, guys like Maaik and RooiAAS were all over me. He wont make it...Labuschagne wont make it, nor will Kolisi, Spies will never come back. The loss of Schalk these last two years has been huge, but again there were guys who called Schalk unskilled.....what wouldn't we give to have a fit Schalk run out in the RC. _ - The fact is we don't have massive test depth, just fans that think a lot of players are test capable....who aren't. Our B teams have always been thrashed in RWC years when we are resting the test squad.

Beeno1

Captain40,032 posts

Beeno1Captain40,032 posts

17 Jun 2013, 13:16

17 Jun 2013, 13:16#5

Moz, Coetzee had quite a reaonable game. However having the non presnt Spies was disasterous. Coetzee needs to grow his skills - that is not impossible. I awaut developments given the Sharks now have a very good coach in Dr Brendon Venter.

It would be foolish to write off Kolisi and Coetzee. given their youth. What is fair comment is they are not as yet up to it now and will not make it if our top loosies are fit.

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

17 Jun 2013, 13:26

17 Jun 2013, 13:26#6

HasBEEN props need an apprenticeship, top loosies like Brussouw, Schalk, Juan Smith, McCaw, George Smith and Pocock burst onto the scene young. There aren't questions about their test suitability. - - The fact is neither Kolisi , nor Coetzee will ever be a source of competitive advantage at open side flank. They may be somewhat adequate, but will be outplayed by most top 7 country open sides. Which means they are stuck with the ball carrier role.....but Coetzee has simply got smashed playing this role. As a smaller flank he never gets out wide on defence either. He doesn't have the raw power. Kolisi had a good game on Saturday, but not at the breakdown. He made lots of metres, but do we seriously think he will do this in tests against better opposition? - - Nope you can safely write these guys out of the picture. If we don't we will just waste a number of tests.

Beeno1

Captain40,032 posts

Beeno1Captain40,032 posts

17 Jun 2013, 13:29

17 Jun 2013, 13:29#7

I would not play them now as I said but wont catergorically rule them out. Lets see how they go in years to come.

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

17 Jun 2013, 13:40

17 Jun 2013, 13:40#8

Mozart Your basis for whether he player would make it or not is based on crap and not on anything else. According to you the norms are - * once a Springbok always a Springbok - irrespective of whether players get worse later on in their playing careers and fail to perform; * your prejudice against players - without any reference to actual achievements of players - hence the convenience in ignoring stats when it does not fit your arguments and using the if it does. I have said in the past that Coetzee was acceptable based on his performances in Super 15 last year and his initial performances on test level - which showed that he had the potential to develop further. However, he did not show any further development and his performances in Super 15 this year was not at all acceptable and I as early as May this year expressed reservations about him and indicated that he does not really justify future selection for the Springboks. In any event Coetzee was substandard on Saturday - which is based on substantiated facts - nothing else. You go on about players like De Jongh and Morne Steyn like they are demigods. Last year Steyn was a disaster for the Springboks in the test series. You were over the moon about Steyn's goal kicking this year - which showed that the deficiencies last year in that respect - but the rest of his game was still the same. Especially in the Super 15 game against the Cheetahs I indicated that there are some worrying aspects about Steyn - I watched him carefully throughout the game and saw signs that he was nervous and in a way insecure. Like his first test last year - he failed again on Saturday. I was not surprised at all about it - the signs of nervous tension were there for all to see - and he is bound to get worse as the test series progress. Your comments when I said I see worrying signs in Steyn was a classic - same as it was when you said that a player needs not be test standard when he is a bench selection. Now lets get to Juan Smith and Burger - you were singing songs about Smith whn he started to play again - while I said that he has to prove himself again. I say the same about Burger - but you babble on that he is the great saviour of back row play for SA - but by the time next year when he is able to return to play - will he still be the same player he was three years ago? Nobody knows - but you accept unreservedly that he will be. Now the other big saviour is Alberts - yet for the past 18 months he was poor in performance after establishing an image of being a strong ball carrier. He is heavy for a loosie - and can carry balls a few meters - but what happen then? His stats showed that he has a low tackling ratio compare to other loosies - and he brings nothing in respect of ball recovery from breakdowns because of his slow speed on the field of play - yet Mozart wants him desperately. What about stats - they are not applicable in his case since does not support your spurious arguments. You have no reason to babble about Labuschagne either. While the Reds coach sings his praises as one of the main reasons why the Reds lost against the Cheetahs and Drotske said he is the best 7 in SA at present - you come up that he is physically too weak to play as a 7. When it was pointed out that he is as tall as Botha and weigh a few kilos more than him - you came up with the story that Botha "looks" stronger than Labuschagne. In the case of Labuschagne - an all-round player that has abilities which is better than Coetzee ever had and is also statistically better than Botha achieved on Super 15 level - you came with biased statements that he looks weak. Your prejudice came through early when after the first match you actually saw him playing - you said that he did nothing of note - because you fail to see what he does. Why you are prejudiced against this player - I can only explain in that he is a threat to some players you think should be in the team. Mozart - the day you prove your ravings statistically or otherwise - I will accept same - like I did in the case of Coetzee. Otherwise one can accept that what you spread on this site is absolutely rubbish

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

17 Jun 2013, 14:09

17 Jun 2013, 14:09#9

Maaik , shame man, why do you lie so much old chap. I have said from the moment Juan Smith tore his Achilles that his return was very dubious. At the time I was the only poster saying this. And I frankly doubt, having missed two full seasons, Schalk will come back. At least as Schalk. There was some hope when it was just the knee. Why falsely ascribe things to another poster? What's the point? - - This is the same kind of thing you pulled about Willie le Roux. You said you were for him from the start of the season....whereas I showed you picked 3 fullbacks, not one of whom was Willie le Roux. You said Dave and I were always against him.....but on April 1 we both posted strongly in support of him. Faced with these facts you did the deep dive.....and now this? _ _ It's getting old Maaik....stop lying.

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

17 Jun 2013, 14:23

#10

17 Jun 2013, 14:23#10

Mozart Please - when Juan Smith was on the come-back trail - you were writing eulogies about him - while I said h e must still show that he will deserve future selection through performance. Only in the thread above - you went on without any reservation about Schalk Burger. I said he must prove that he still is the same as he was when he played competitive rugby in 2011 - by next year he will be out of competitive rugby for nearly three years - so is he the answer you try to conjure up above. Although it could not be found anywhere - at least I do not know how to recover the item - I still maintain that I was the first person who wrote about Le Roux as a potential selection - I am absolutely sure of that. It was definitely sometime in December 2012 - January 2013.

Beeno1

Captain40,032 posts

Beeno1Captain40,032 posts

17 Jun 2013, 14:43

#11

17 Jun 2013, 14:43#11

Juan was starting to look good when he can back but unfortunalely his injury never healed so as to allow him to play again.

Schalk - well I remain open to seeing how well he comes back. Ou maaaikie EVERYONE KNOWS schalk will have to prove himself!! Man that is stating the obvious - I mean even ou rooitiwt would know that!

Ou maaaaikie Alberts has suffered many disruptive injuries. He needs to have a run of games to build up to his best form. Again I am not writing him off

Many people were calling for Le Roux's inclusion. No surprises about that.

Your imagination is running away with you re Morne and I suggest you desist from trashing the player. Thus far he has been good as has been the general consensus. Bear with him - hes off to France in any event in the near future.

I am a fan of labbers as he is an all round skilled palyer. My only concern with him is how will hefare at top test level. Remember Mike that we are looking for palyers who can outplay ther counterparts at the TOP level of the game. Meyer should have palyeed labbers against Scotland.

The samoans will test any guy who lacks the necessary pyhsicality. Given no injuries this itest should open meyers eyes to a few problematic selections. In some ways it wouldbe a good thing for Meyer to pick the same pac to drive home a few points.

I look forward with interest to see who he selects.

Spooony

Club Pro718 posts

SpooonyClub Pro718 posts

17 Jun 2013, 16:37

#12

17 Jun 2013, 16:37#12

The depth are being wasted at the Bulls. 5 loosies, 4 or 5 centers. That is not backup. That is wasting talent pure and simple

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

17 Jun 2013, 22:16

#13

17 Jun 2013, 22:16#13

Not a word about Willie....Maaaik? But you are lying about Smith. How do I know that for sure? well because since well before the RWC I have been pushing for Schalk at 7.

Spooony

Club Pro718 posts

SpooonyClub Pro718 posts

17 Jun 2013, 22:31

#14

17 Jun 2013, 22:31#14

Its just a jersey number. Schalk will play the way he have been always playing. Just like the guy wearing 6 will always play like he have been playing

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

17 Jun 2013, 22:50

#15

17 Jun 2013, 22:50#15

Here you go Maaik the relevant string....laaik you will see you traaied to make a point.....and I said nothing, in fact I never even posted on the topic. Most decent folk would apologize, but I'm not holding my breath: http://www.sarugby.com/forum.cfm?threadid=3326

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

17 Jun 2013, 23:06

#16

17 Jun 2013, 23:06#16

Mozart I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments - but your praise singing of Smith was so over-whelming that I naturally assumed that you advocate an automatic inclusion of Smith in the Springbok team and that in such a case Burger would play at 5 and Smith at 7. You never said anything about Burger been preferred to Smith either - but keep on referring to matches where both of them was in the team.

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

18 Jun 2013, 00:56

#17

18 Jun 2013, 00:56#17

What I said when Smith retired was : " a pro leaves the arena". You will find it on string 3698....just replace it in the full address above. - - - I also said: "look at how Juan Smith's Achilles tendon effectively took him out of rugby." on string 3657. - - None of that remotely sounds like "overwhelming support"

Saffolk

Captain30,741 posts

Saffolk Captain30,741 posts

18 Jun 2013, 03:03

#18

18 Jun 2013, 03:03#18

Boklogic, its has stuff all to do with our depth and everything to do with a coach out of touch with selections and the art of playing winning rugby.

Game plan aside, Basson, Jean, Morne, Pienaar, Jannie, Juandre Kruger and Spies should not be in the side. Thats effectively half the team.

As for Kolisi he had a great game and has test player written all over him as I have said from day one. Coetzee is up there with him. These players are far better than the likes of Spies, Alberts and co. Time to move on. Bring Brussouw and Labascagne into the equation as well and make a call to CJ Stander - wake up Meyer.

Start with Serfontein for crying out loud and play Lambie a ball player at 10. Select a real wing instead of the brittle Basson and select a lock with a hard edge instead of the passive Kruger who is not a test locks backside. Time to move on from Jannie, start Coenie at 3. Pienaar at 9 is another passive player, give the impressive v/Zyl a run.

Spooony

Club Pro718 posts

SpooonyClub Pro718 posts

18 Jun 2013, 11:34

#19

18 Jun 2013, 11:34#19

I was so much enjoying that post of your Saffex till you turned Seerfontein fanboy. The lad is good. Still young and lots of years ahead of him. Lets not break him before he reaches 25.

Beeno1

Captain40,032 posts

Beeno1Captain40,032 posts

18 Jun 2013, 11:43

#20

18 Jun 2013, 11:43#20

Spoony you echo my concerns. I am worried about Jan facing the Samoans. Will they try some cheap shots at him?

To me this is a last chance re the Samoans. Play dirty and they must never be invited back here. They were fine against Scotalnd but they were winning. If they are loosing things might be different. Lets hope they are maturing.

Saffolk

Captain30,741 posts

Saffolk Captain30,741 posts

18 Jun 2013, 15:25

#21

18 Jun 2013, 15:25#21

What bullshit, Serfontein is 20, weighs 97kg, he is more than ready for test rugby. This protection shit is for a bunch of girls. Sefontein is one of the must have's in the side, along with Etzebeth and Bismark

Spooony

Club Pro718 posts

SpooonyClub Pro718 posts

05 Jul 2013, 06:21

#22

05 Jul 2013, 06:21#22

97kg's is light for a inside center Saffex.

Pos EBF H-met W-met H-imp lbs st-lb Clb Fnam Player
=== === ===== ===== ===== ========= === ==== ======
p12 656 183cm 120kg 6' 0" 265 18s13 Tln Math Bastareaud
p12 601 188cm 113kg 6' 2" 249 17s11 Con Mata Fafita
p12 601 183cm 110kg 6' 0" 243 17s 5 LTg Manu Tuilagi
p12 589 192cm 113kg 6' 4" 249 17s11 XCh Sire Naqelevuki
p12 588 182cm 107kg 6' 0" 236 16s12 Hln Ma`a Nonu
p12 585 183cm 107kg 6' 0" 236 16s12 Qin Jord Turner-Hall
p12 583 175cm 102kg 5' 9" 225 16s 1 LTg Tom. Youngs
p12 575 193cm 111kg 6' 4" 245 17s 7 GWa Byro McGuigan
p12 571 191cm 109kg 6' 3" 240 17s 2 Nth Luth Burrell
p12 571 184cm 105kg 6' 0" 231 16s 7 Cas Remi Lamerat
p12 571 184cm 105kg 6' 0" 231 16s 7 Btz Sere Burotu
p12 568 183cm 104kg 6' 0" 229 16s 5 LTg Andy Symons
p12 565 186cm 105kg 6' 1" 231 16s 7 Sca Jona Davies
p12 565 184cm 104kg 6' 0" 229 16s 5 XCh Josh Tatupu
p12 564 188cm 106kg 6' 2" 234 16s10 Tls Yann David
p12 563 183cm 103kg 6' 0" 227 16s 3 SSh Jonn Leota
p12 556 180cm 100kg 5'11" 220 15s10 Edi Ben. Atiga
p12 554 193cm 107kg 6' 4" 236 16s12 Tls Yann Jauzion
p12 554 184cm 102kg 6' 0" 225 16s 1 WFc Juno Rasolea
p12 552 183cm 101kg 6' 0" 223 15s13 Sca Scot Williams
p12 551 178cm 98 kg 5'10" 216 15s 6 Tls Flor Fritz
p12 550 191cm 105kg 6' 3" 231 16s 7 Rbl Mitc Inman
p12 550 189cm 104kg 6' 2" 229 16s 5 RMo Alex Dumoulin
p12 549 193cm 106kg 6' 4" 234 16s10 CfB Jami Roberts
p12 548 186cm 102kg 6' 1" 225 16s 1 CmA Gavi Williams
p12 547 190cm 104kg 6' 3" 229 16s 5 RMo Albe Vulivuli
p12 547 190cm 104kg 6' 3" 229 16s 5 Cru Robb Fruean
p12 547 190cm 104kg 6' 3" 229 16s 5 Chf Rich Kahui
p12 546 185cm 101kg 6' 1" 223 15s13 Mun Case Laulala
p12 546 183cm 100kg 6' 0" 220 15s10 XCh Mark Foster
p12 545 191cm 104kg 6' 3" 229 16s 5 Mtp Shon Hape
p12 545 187cm 102kg 6' 2" 225 16s 1 XCh Ian. Whitten
p12 544 180cm 98 kg 5'11" 216 15s 6 Sar Adam Powell
p12 543 188cm 102kg 6' 2" 225 16s 1 Lns Andr Goodman
p12 542 190cm 103kg 6' 3" 227 16s 3 GWa Grae Morrison
p12 539 193cm 104kg 6' 4" 229 16s 5 Mun Jame Downey
p12 539 178cm 96 kg 5'10" 212 15s 2 Nth Tom. May
p12 539 178cm 96 kg 5'10" 212 15s 2 Rbl Lach Mitchell
p12 537 190cm 102kg 6' 3" 225 16s 1 Bru Jose Tomane
p12 536 194cm 104kg 6' 4" 229 16s 5 Bru Andr Smith
p12 535 185cm 99 kg 6' 1" 218 15s 8 RMo Fabr Estebanez
p12 533 195cm 104kg 6' 5" 229 16s 5 WFc Will Tupou
p12 533 184cm 98 kg 6' 0" 216 15s 6 XCh Sam. Hill
p12 533 180cm 96 kg 5'11" 212 15s 2 Uls Luke Marshall
p12 531 188cm 100kg 6' 2" 220 15s10 Rbl Rory Sidey
p12 530 183cm 97 kg 6' 0" 214 15s 4 Uls Darr Cave
p12 530 181cm 96 kg 5'11" 212 15s 2 Hur Reyn Lee-Lo
p12 529 189cm 100kg 6' 2" 220 15s10 WFc Chri Tuatara-Morrison
p12 529 189cm 100kg 6' 2" 220 15s10 Wat Tom. Carter
p12 529 187cm 99 kg 6' 2" 218 15s 8 Blu Mala Fekitoa
p12 528 191cm 101kg 6' 3" 223 15s13 Osp Ashl Beck
p12 528 191cm 101kg 6' 3" 223 15s13 Stm Jean De Villiers
p12 528 180cm 95 kg 5'11" 209 14s13 Nth Domi Waldouck
p12 528 180cm 95 kg 5'11" 209 14s13 Red Ben. Tupuai
p12 528 178cm 94 kg 5'10" 207 14s11 XCh Nick Sestaret
p12 527 186cm 98 kg 6' 1" 216 15s 6 Sca Nic. Reynolds
p12 527 184cm 97 kg 6' 0" 214 15s 4 CmA Bens Stanley
p12 526 190cm 100kg 6' 3" 220 15s10 Zeb Matt Pratichetti
p12 526 190cm 100kg 6' 3" 220 15s10 Sar Joel Tomkins
p12 524 191cm 100kg 6' 3" 220 15s10 SSh Corn Uys
p12 524 191cm 100kg 6' 3" 220 15s10 CfB Gavi Evans
p12 524 189cm 99 kg 6' 2" 218 15s 8 Con Dani Poolman
p12 524 189cm 99 kg 6' 2" 218 15s 8 WFc Nick Cummins
p12 524 187cm 98 kg 6' 2" 216 15s 6 Cas Sere Baikeinuku
p12 524 185cm 97 kg 6' 1" 214 15s 4 Zeb Gonz Garcia
p12 522 186cm 97 kg 6' 1" 214 15s 4 Chf Char Ngatai
p12 522 186cm 97 kg 6' 1" 214 15s 4 Osp Jona Spratt
p12 522 182cm 95 kg 6' 0" 209 14s13 WFc Alfi Mafi
p12 522 178cm 93 kg 5'10" 205 14s 9 Lns Bria O`Driscoll
p12 520 196cm 102kg 6' 5" 225 16s 1 Bru Tevi Kuridrani
p12 520 175cm 91 kg 5' 9" 201 14s 5 SSh Sam. Tuitupou
p12 519 187cm 97 kg 6' 2" 214 15s 4 Con Davi McSharry
---> p12 519 187cm 97 kg 6' 2" 214 15s 4 Bul Jan. Serfontein
p12 519 185cm 96 kg 6' 1" 212 15s 2 Mun Ivan Dineen
p12 519 185cm 96 kg 6' 1" 212 15s 2 Hln Tama Ellison
p12 519 183cm 95 kg 6' 0" 209 14s13 BTr Dopp La Grange
p12 519 183cm 95 kg 6' 0" 209 14s13 BTr Andr Pratichetti
p12 519 183cm 95 kg 6' 0" 209 14s13 Sca Gare Owen

— END OF THREAD —

With so much depth...Why do we still have these problems!!

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