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FORUM / RUGBY /  With the right coach

With the right coach

Started by Saffolk 10 REPLIES388 VIEWS· 11 Sept 2014, 01:37
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2014, 01:37
#1
11 Sept 2014, 01:37#1

We should be challenging hard for the number one spot right now given the depth of talent we have.  There is more youthful talent in SA now than ever and more than any other country has. A credible coach in tune with the way the modern game should be played would easily produce a winning side from this pool:


Fullbacks: Willie, Taute, SP Marais, Visser, Coetzee and Jessie Kriel. 


Wings: Habana, JP, Hendricks, Rhule, v/d Heever, Sithole, Sinatla, Kolbe, Jordaan, Mapoe, Kobus v/Wyk, Mjekevu, Sergal Petersen, Skosan, Mvovo, de Jongh, Volmink. 


Centres: JJ, Pat Howard, de Allende, Taute, Kobus v/Wyk, Hannekom, Watermeyer, Mnisi, Frans Venter, Sadie, Jessie Kriel, Serfontein, Odendaal, Esterhuizen, Frans, Fisher, Sithole, Mapoe, Williams, Whitehead, Dries Swanepoel, Rohan Janse v/Rensburg. 


Flyhalves: Goosen, Lambie, Pollard, Jantjies, Swiel, Coleman, Boshoff, Catrekillis. 


Scrumhalves: Hougaard, Reinach, de Klerk, Groom, v/Zyl, Schreuder, Hoffman, Wright.


Props: Jannie, Beast, du Toit, Marcel v/d Merwe, Mellett, Frik Kirsten, Maks v/Dyk, Coenie, Nkanyane, Cayleb Oosthuizen, Malherbe, S.v/d Merwe, Kitshoff, Kebble. 


Hookers: Bismark, Strauss, Chiliboy, Cooper, Visagie, Marx, Fourie, Scara, Mbonambi.


Locks: Etzebeth, Ruan Botha, Kleyn, Quinn Roux, Mostert, Carl Wegner, Lood, Willemse, Jacques du Plessis, Steph du Toit, Oosthuizen, Lewies, J.Marais, P.Marais. 


Loosies: Elstadt, Carr, Kolisi, Rhodes, Brossouw, Cook, Stegman, Labascagne, v/d Walt, Mohoje, Schoeman, Arno Botha, Jacques du Plessis, Hattingh,  Ross, CJ.Stander, Coetzee, Mtembu, Louw, J.Strauss, Whiteley.


As a coach with all this talent how could you possibly get it wrong?

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
11 Sept 2014, 01:45
#2
11 Sept 2014, 01:45#2
Yay....it's a Saffex list  

That should please everyone !  
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
11 Sept 2014, 03:47
#3
11 Sept 2014, 03:47#3

Keep a close eyen on Stokkies and Watermeyer......They are the real deal. 


Flyhalves: Goosen, Lambie, Pollard, Jantjies, Swiel, Coleman, Boshoff, Catrekillis . 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
11 Sept 2014, 05:04
#4
11 Sept 2014, 05:04#4
Saffex if you had a decent understanding of rugby you would realise that although South Africa is a great rugby playing nation, we have some major weaknesses. These are the determining factor why the Boks are not better than the All Blacks.

If the coaches are responsible, then it is starts at school boy level- not just the Bok and Super XV coaches. 

Our main weakness is backline play- the ability to combine as a unit is poor. Only Willie Leroux is a true playmaker at bok level.Many of our players lack distribution skills and running lines that will allow the ball carrier options. A chicken and egg situation. A bacline player that cant pass, and does not have supporting runners, will seek to crash ball. A coach that does not have players who can pass well, or players that can intuitively create space, has less options than a squad of players that can do this.
Each year our SuperXV backlines get hammered, and our teams are too dependent of the forwards dominating territory and possession.Teams like the Canes and Chiefs , can have 30% possesion and territory and still win. 
Each week you spout of list of names. Although many of these players are not even first choice club players in any country. All well and fine to blame the SA coaches, when the coaches overseas are not selecting these players.  (perhaps all coaches are idiots, and it is just S affex that must save Springbok rugby.....
South Africa has more depth than Australia, but it does not mean that they are international standard. 
What good is having a million centres and flyhalfs that will never have the talent to be test level players. Many of your new kid on the block centres will fail because they are fatties. One look at them it is easy to see they have no ability to step of either foot, let alone one foot. They are crash balls that when playing at top level are one dimensional
Jantjies is not SuperXV standard. He would struggle to get game time at club rugby in New Zealand.
Catrekillis is a decent curry cup player, nothing more. 
Goosen was the best talent at 10 in years, but now he is just too injury prone to be a test level player. 

Get your head out of your arse, and get back to reality.You are such a dummy. Each year you will have an updated roster of the current talent. Some of them will be overseas or retired, and you will built up the next batch as world beaters- but really they are not much different from those they are replacing. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Sept 2014, 07:01
#5
11 Sept 2014, 07:01#5
Nothing new here, just a long list of players, the vast majority of whom would get slaughtered at test level....and have already been in many cases.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2014, 10:53
#6
11 Sept 2014, 10:53#6
Moffie your negativity is so refreshing and given your rugby outlook I could compile a list of geriatrics that would tickle your fancy.
Wow Sharktwat given your history on this site imagine if I actually took your response to heart. Fact is I have no respect for your ignorant views so that long response has yet to get my attention. The opening line was enough to evoke this response. I might indulge you later lying here with my fucked back.
I have time on my hands
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Sept 2014, 11:59
#7
11 Sept 2014, 11:59#7
 Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3649 RE: With the right coach
September 11, 2014, 03:04:54
Our main weakness is backline play- the ability to combine as a unit is poor. Only Willie Leroux is a true playmaker at bok level.Many of our players lack distribution skills and running lines that will allow the ball carrier options. 



All of the rugby playing nations have there own strength and weaknesses. The trick is to find a balance so that your strengths negate your weaknesses. I read an article recently about what the French Top14 clubs have been doing all along and what they are getting right. I found this interesting. I just had a quick look at it at first but when I read it again and had a good look at the graphics, I found it actually quite interesting.

Top 14: Is there a blueprint for success?

Last season’s Top 14 was fiercely contested with just a 16-point gap separating top side Toulon and Brive in ninth place. As a comparison, the difference between first and ninth place was 43 points in the Aviva Premiership and 47 points in the Guinness Pro12. A notable change in attitude towards away fixtures is a factor in the increased competitiveness in the French league, but perhaps more significant is the composition and similarity of the squads. Are the collective owners following the same blueprint for assembling a ‘perfect’ team?

It may not be a huge surprise that the majority of imports to France are (in order) from South Africa, New Zealand, Fiji, Australia, Tonga, Georgia, and Samoa. Of greater interest is the clear pattern of recruiting each nation’s iconic or traditionally strong position(s), as can be seen below.





[Factors such as JIFF, Kolpak ruling, player eligibility / nationality means such a list can only be used as a rough squad guide rather than treated as fully accurate, as an example: Clermont prop Daniel Kötze, born in South Africa but now capped for France]

Georgia on my bind

Rampaging flanker Mamuka ‘Gorgodzilla’ Gorgodze might take the headlines, but The Lelos are better associated with churning out a seemingly endless supply of destructive scrummagers from the prop factories in Tbilisi. The sides without one of these (usually) bearded behemoths are in the minority and an average of four Georgian props start in each round.


Bok brains and brawn

In a league oft characterised as set piece orientated, it makes sense to head to South Africa for aggressive enforcers and lineout technicians in the engine room. With the likes of Juandré Kruger and Bakkies Botha are winning ball in the air or throwing their weight around, there has also been an increase in the number of South African scrum-halves brought in to manage the game, with an average of 4 starters each round this year.


Backing Black

New Zealand is well represented at prop, No 8, fly-half, centre and wing and an explanation for that variety would be the different heritages involved. As an example: powerful No 8 Alex Tulou who was born in American Samoa or prop Saimone Taumoepeau from Tonga.

Bayonne bruiser Charles Ollivon stood out in the first round not just for his strong carrying but also his status as a French qualified No 8, seemingly an endangered species, with an average of just 5 starting per round last season. Only he and (Durban-born) Antonie Claassen made starting line-ups in the first week, compared to Lee, Grice, Clarkin, Whetton and Tulou from New Zealand. Along with the dominant back-row ball-carriers and tighthead props, midfield guile is also a sought after commodity with an average of five Kiwi centres appearing each round.


Fijian firepower

Having overpowered an opponent up front or unlocked their defence, a finisher is still required and that role is increasingly being given to a Fijian flyer. Lethal pace and ability to beat defenders also means a defensively minded side can chose to sit back and strike on the counter.  Only 34 of the 81 tries scored so far this season were by French players and there has been a steady decline in French representation in the top ten try scorers each year, with just Sofiane Guitoune making the list last season. In contrast, Fijians Talebula, Nagusa, Nayacalevu and Nalaga all managed eight or more tries. With Brive seeking to gain an advantage in the recruitment arms race by opening an academy in Nadi, Fiji, Noa Nakaitaci is unlikely to be the last example of a French convert.


Effect on Les Bleus?

In Confessions of a Rugby Mercenary, John Daniell described top level rugby as: “not really a choice between the rapier and the cudgel: everyone has a cudgel, so you better have one too, and the bigger the better. But you would be well-advised to have a rapier as well, and to know how to handle it”.


When France coach Philippe Saint-André checks the Top 14 armoury, he may find those weapons aren’t all available for his selection.


Breakdown of starters by nationality for rounds one and two of current Top 14 season






Mention in the French media of Uini Atonio and Rory Kockott being called up is interesting when it is considered that New Zealand tightheads and South African scrum-halves have been used regularly in the opening rounds this season.

While hooker, flanker, centre and full-back appear to be positions of depth for France (in quantity at least), an under pressure and usually pragmatic Saint-André may opt to follow the blueprint used by his Top 14 colleagues for other positions. With an absence of traditional French flair, the next time we see another ‘try from the end of the world’ it may be created and scored by those from around the world.


Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/france-countries/top-14-blueprint-success/#3Tfv3G0xUsiDIp34.99
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
11 Sept 2014, 13:58
#8
11 Sept 2014, 13:58#8
Sharkbok, congratulations on your dose of reality.Saffex, that's why SA trail the ABs by so much; guys like you think your players are better but actually they're not. I'm happy you think like that as nothing will change until you accept a few home truths...  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2014, 15:01
#9
11 Sept 2014, 15:01#9
Moola stop speaking shit. If we selected our best players we would beat you more than you would beat us. 
We are never going to achieve that with 50% of our best players not being selected.
Just look at your replacement lock for instance. Thrush is pretty bloody ordinary which evidences your lack of depth. SA have 10 better young locks than Thrush
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
11 Sept 2014, 15:14
#10
11 Sept 2014, 15:14#10
 Dream on mate. You're all supposition and I thought you lawyers relied on proof!!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2014, 15:31
#11
11 Sept 2014, 15:31#11
 I can't provide proof when my useless coach can't get the basics right like selecting the right side. At least your coach gets 90% of the selections right and you play the game as it should be played.
Don't get me wrong your boys are good but SA has been sold short for years thanks to coaches. Geez just look who we had before Meyer. But I stand by the fact that we have more depth in young talent than you do.
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