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Wonderful NZ, more wonderful Ireland.

Started by Mozart31 REPLIES710 VIEWS· 06 Nov 2016, 03:39
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2016, 03:39
#1
06 Nov 2016, 03:39#1
Terrific stuff in front of a passionate crowd. Massive AB fight back .....but Ireland had got ahead by one score too many. Confirmed with MOM Henshaw's try. In the end this was one of those days and the lack of proper locks was a weakness Ireland exploited. It reminded me most of France/Nz in RWC99.....with Conor Murray's try every bit as shocking as the stunners by Domenici and Bernat-Salles. Good on Hansen for making no excuses, it wasn't the best AB performance but still it required a huge Irish effort. They showed the bravery and commitment that lifts a team a level in class. A great occasion in a City that was basking in a very late Indian Summer and the aftermath of the Cubs win.....which generated the 7th largest human assembly ever, on Friday. Our cup runneth over.
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
06 Nov 2016, 04:31
#2
06 Nov 2016, 04:31#2
 It must have been great to see it live Mozart, congrats to the Irish, what a win to break an over 100 year record. They deserve all the celebration and praise they will receive. 
I heard that bloke Stander was pretty good also Maybe the Boks will recall him?

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2016, 04:44
#3
06 Nov 2016, 04:44#3
 Mozart
I will watch the game - I must thank you for the info.   How did Stander perform in that game?  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2016, 04:47
#4
06 Nov 2016, 04:47#4
You mean CJ Stampkar? He has huge energy but 11 metres with no defenders beaten and 2 lost balls is hardly exceptional. He was also clumsy in not preventing 2 AB tries. Still he did some good things, most notably a fine recovery of an errant AB lineout throw. His tackling was also good at 11 out of 13 with two turnovers. Although he was monstered by Ben Smith with a hand off, allowed the offload which led to the Smith try and failed to bring down Barrett in time to stop his try. Part of a very energetic Irish pack.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2016, 05:16
#5
06 Nov 2016, 05:16#5
Aaron Smith clearly was way short of his best and Perenara must have a chance to start in the weeks ahead.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2016, 05:27
#6
06 Nov 2016, 05:27#6
 Mozart
Will have to wait and see the positives of Stander - since you never quote positives only negatives in the case of players you do not like.     
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2016, 05:35
#7
06 Nov 2016, 05:35#7
Actually Tokkie in my post responding to yours I quoted 4 positives. See if you can find the 4 positives children .....we have to start your education at Primary School level.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2016, 05:36
#8
06 Nov 2016, 05:36#8
Hint....the sentence starts with "still"
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2016, 06:26
#9
06 Nov 2016, 06:26#9
 Mozart
I see he Irish scored 5 tries - Stander scoring one of them - against New Zealand and ended up winning the game.   Do you still consider scoring of tries as immaterial in playing rugby and that the way to go is to kick t he ball away and hand over possession?  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2016, 06:30
#10
06 Nov 2016, 06:30#10
Stop talking rubbish Tokkie, it's not an either or.....the winning Irish try was set up with a brilliant tactical kick.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2016, 06:45
#11
06 Nov 2016, 06:45#11
 I have no problem with strategic kicking - it is a very important part of the game.   Where I differ from you is the constant harping on defense and non-recognition of the role of players in scoring tries on your part which led to my stated assumption.  
 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2016, 06:54
#12
06 Nov 2016, 06:54#12
More to the point, does this loss have something to do with the loss of leaders in the AB team. There has been much written about how the new team may be better than the WC winning team. Maybe, but today says maybe not. There was a hint of panic in the AB game today, not obvious in the Irish test they won from behind a few years back. Until today the current AB team hasn't really been put under pressure.....and a few tiny cracks appeared. As always in rugby tests, a resolute team is a difficult team to put away.
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Nov 2016, 07:32
#13
06 Nov 2016, 07:32#13
 Mike ... You're asking Mozart for an objective review on Stander???
Good luck with that.



CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2016, 07:34
#14
06 Nov 2016, 07:34#14
 Mozart
I have looked at the team and other than Whitelock and Retallick it seemed to have very few players who were not in the recent AB test team. 
I have highlighted the players who according to memory did not play in the RC:-

15 Ben Smith, 14 Waisake Naholo, 13 George Moala, 12 Ryan Crotty, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Beauden Barrett, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Squire, 5 Jerome Kaino, 4 Patrick Tuipulotu, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Joe Moody


Replacements: 

16 Codie Taylor, 17 Ofa Tu'ungafasi, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Scott Barrett, 20 Ardie Savea, 21 TJ Perenara, 22 Aaron Cruden, 23 Malakai Fekitoa

That does not really represent a major change from he team selection for the RC - so I am not sure your comments  about the comments of yours about the present team comp ared to the WC squad is justified.  


 
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Nov 2016, 07:35
#15
06 Nov 2016, 07:35#15
 Must say I'm a little stunned that the All Blacks lost to the Irish.
Never saw that coming.
Congrats to Ireland.
Turns out that the All Blacks are human after all. 
Who would have th ought it.



CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2016, 20:26
#16
06 Nov 2016, 20:26#16
 Mozart
I have now watched the game and it is clear how the Irish beat the AB's/   They played rugby and not the junk jake-balling that you support so strongly.   They have a thinking flyhalf - not the dolt you supported in the past and played for SA in two recent tests on instruction of Coetzee.
They managed to score 5 tries against the AB's and that is telling - they played comprehensive rugby - not what some expect the SA Teams not to do.    The story about playing "Traditional SA  Rugby" is sick fiction of sick minds.   
A flyhalf noted more for aimless kicks than for anything relating to  constructive rugby was one of our worst selections.   A center like De Jongh - who is tossed aside by opposing players because of physical inadequacy is not in any of the top international teams.    Add tp that Habana and Hougaard on the wing whose defense was atrocious and you have a totally inadequate team.  
Despite all your myths the problem is that we have to adjust rugby to be more professional and better - that is the only way SA rugby will succeed.   At preset there are no signs of that hapenng - we need professional coaching - not the dolts we have at present.          
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2016, 23:02
#17
06 Nov 2016, 23:02#17
 You apparently totally missed what happened. NZ outgained Ireland 514 to 190 metres. Passed 191 to 125 times for Ireland. Kicked only 13 times to Ireland's 29. Made 97 tackles to 135 for Ireland. Ireland played pretty much the way the Boks do and it was totally effective. Why? Because they really defended, dominated the breakdown and avoided dumb newbie mistakes. They also had the thing I have been calling for over and over....a surprise set play in the 22 which yielded the winning try. Away with your ignorance..
BO
bobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
06 Nov 2016, 23:32
#18
06 Nov 2016, 23:32#18
I confess to feeling a bit schadenfreudenistic with the result, plus it deflects attention away from another yet another stumble from the bumble Boks .
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2016, 07:21
#19
07 Nov 2016, 07:21#19
 Mozart
You are the one who said the Springboks played comprehensive rugby against the Irish when in fact it was not the case.   Now you say the Irish played very much like the Springboks did.
That is where your b becomes clear.   If the Springboks played like the Irish they would not have lost by a record margin and they would have scored tries - which the Springboks found impossible in their last two tests.   In neither did they even threatened to do that.
I posted a logical evaluation and your response was vague and comprise of your utter standard BS.   

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2016, 07:21
#20
07 Nov 2016, 07:21#20
 Mozart
You are the one who said the Springboks played comprehensive rugby against the Irish when in fact it was not the case.   Now you say the Irish played very much like the Springboks did.
That is where your b becomes clear.   If the Springboks played like the Irish they would not have lost by a record margin and they would have scored tries - which the Springboks found impossible in their last two tests.   In neither did they even threatened to do that.
I posted a logical evaluation and your response was vague and comprise of your utter standard BS.   

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Nov 2016, 07:41
#21
07 Nov 2016, 07:41#21
My response was vague when it's replete with stats and all you have is your usual assertions? Tokkie you are just thrashing around. Example after example is blowing up in your face.....many pundits are echoing my view that the loss of senior players contributed to NZ losing the plot under pressure against Ireland.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2016, 10:41
#22
07 Nov 2016, 10:41#22
 Your stats are used to confirm something which is total slanted tripe.   According to the stats you quoted  NZ should have won.
The crunch is the issue of scoring of tries and that is where the Irish won the game.   The scoring of the tries was done in a way totally different from what SA teams did this year.   I identified 3 players who were not playing and the rest was standard NZ first line players.   Those three players were replaced by top class players as well - so your argument is basically false as w ell.
It is the assumptions you make and not the stats etc which make your comments so farcical.    
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2016, 10:41
#23
07 Nov 2016, 10:41#23
 Your stats are used to confirm something which is total slanted tripe.   According to the stats you quoted  NZ should have won.
The crunch is the issue of scoring of tries and that is where the Irish won the game.   The scoring of the tries was done in a way totally different from what SA teams did this year.   I identified 3 players who were not playing and the rest was standard NZ first line players.   Those three players were replaced by top class players as well - so your argument is basically false as w ell.
It is the assumptions you make and not the stats etc which make your comments so farcical.    
AO
Admit One
Club Pro389 posts
AO
Admit OneClub Pro389 posts
07 Nov 2016, 11:23
#24
07 Nov 2016, 11:23#24
Schmidt provided the blue print how to beat the AB. We need to analyse this and last years end of year match.
AO
Admit One
Club Pro389 posts
AO
Admit OneClub Pro389 posts
07 Nov 2016, 11:24
#25
07 Nov 2016, 11:24#25
 S c h m i d t.

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Nov 2016, 16:21
#26
07 Nov 2016, 16:21#26
No Oompie.....wrong ou Tokkie jou dom ou drol. Since the WC final NZ have lost among others Conrad Smith, Nonu, Carter, McCaw....and for this match also Whitelock and Rettallik. A massive loss of 6 very experienced players. I have no doubt the WC team would have been much more settled in the last 15 minutes. Once again your theory that experience is dispensable blows up. But then again ....what's new.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2016, 17:08
#27
07 Nov 2016, 17:08#27
 Mozart
it was apparent that the players who played this year was a vast improvement on the retirees of last year.   Until Saturday they wiped the floor with all opposing teams and it was clear that the retirees was not missed.  
I forget - to your mind the retires would have performed better than any replacements.  So keep on believing it - but you cannot convince others that it is indeed the case.  
I never said that experience is not important - but I add something to that - experience without performance is a disaster for any team.  That is not new - it just clarifies the issue comprehensively.  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Nov 2016, 17:08
#28
07 Nov 2016, 17:08#28
 Mozart
it was apparent that the players who played this year was a vast improvement on the retirees of last year.   Until Saturday they wiped the floor with all opposing teams and it was clear that the retirees was not missed.  
I forget - to your mind the retires would have performed better than any replacements.  So keep on believing it - but you cannot convince others that it is indeed the case.  
I never said that experience is not important - but I add something to that - experience without performance is a disaster for any team.  That is not new - it just clarifies the issue comprehensively.  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Nov 2016, 18:12
#29
07 Nov 2016, 18:12#29
 No it wasn't apparent.....and now they have lost their unbeaten record, making the point clearer. You were yapping it up with that theory when NZ played disastrous Bok and Aussie teams. Things are now in better perspective.
KI
kingcorn
Pro3,695 posts
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
07 Nov 2016, 19:53
#30
07 Nov 2016, 19:53#30
Well done Ireland, made my day. Just imagine if that team faced the boks compared to the 2nd string we faced. The irish rugby are definitely on the up. This all started some 15 years ago back in Ireland with Tag rugby during the summer. It really aids in player skills development as it forces the player to run with the ball in both hands, not to mention that those tags are extremely elusive to grab. 
I agree with Mozart, it had a lot of good bok rugby. A very big strong 9 with a fantastic tactical brain. Both boot and passing. There back mauled exceptionally well and did a great job not falling apart even the all blacks used illegal tactics to bring them up. Normally they would give away a penalty a few times that forces the attacking team to reset. 
Well done to the all blacks for taking the defeat on the chin. Good to see that there is still competition in the sport and that a smaller unfancy team can compete at the highest level 
3K
3ku1
Pro2,580 posts
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
08 Nov 2016, 07:26
#31
08 Nov 2016, 07:26#31
 Lol more Woeful NZ, and wonderful Ireland. Worst AB performance since Sydney loss to Australia last year. 
BO
boorad
Newbie2 posts
BO
booradNewbie2 posts
14 Nov 2016, 13:56
#32
14 Nov 2016, 13:56#32

mozart


lies statistics and damn lies.  CJ is one of the first names on the Irish team and one of the main go to guys.  He  was excellent against the ABs.  his try was a demonstration of pure strength that few in world rugby would have got.  read this

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-rucks-stander-toner-ireland-all-blacks-3072542-Nov2016/

Murry Kinsella is the most respected rugby journalist in Ireland  (sorry the first four letters in analysis gets edited out)


read the Munster supporters forum he is their best player www.Munsterfans.com and is akin to the second coming.


I have no doubt he will be nominated for world player of the year in the next couple of years (baring injuries)


Personally i think telling CJ he was too small and had no future with the boks was a little bit of a mistake.  It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog

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