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FORUM / RUGBY /  Would these rule changes help? by some journo

Would these rule changes help? by some journo

Started by Just_win16 REPLIES673 VIEWS· 26 Jun 2018, 23:19
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
26 Jun 2018, 23:19
#1
26 Jun 2018, 23:19#1

OPINION: Some of the officiating during the All Blacks' three-test series against France was frustrating to say the least.

 

It wasn't that the referees were getting decisions wrong, necessarily, but that the laws of rugby are so heavy on interpretation, or just plain stupid, that every call was up for debate.

 

Add to that the fact that World Rugby reserves the right to swoop in with their legal team and upturn a refereeing decision - even if, by the laws, it seemed sound - and things get murkier still.

 

As Steve Hansen said on Sunday: "It has got to a point where we have got to do something, because it is starting to affect the game."

 

'It's just ridiculous' - Steve Hansen fires shots at World Rugby’s leadership

 

The All Blacks coach said World Rugby needs to take action after controversial calls went against the Wallabies and the All Blacks.

changes and additions that should be implemented by World Rugby, the intention being to simplify some areas and make it easier for the fans to understand what on earth is going on?

 

LAW 6 (MATCH OFFICIALS)

 


Current law: If the ball or the ball-carrier touches the referee  or other non-player and neither team gains an advantage, play continues. If either team gains an advantage in the field of play, a scrum is awarded to the team that last played the ball.

 

New Law: If the ball or any player touches the referee or other non-player and neither team gains an advantage, play continues. If either team gains an advantage in the field of play, a scrum is awarded to the team that last played the ball.

 

The reason Damian McKenzie was awarded his try by referee John Lacey on Saturday night in Dunedin was that he, as the ball carrier, never touched the referee. The fact that French halfback Baptiste Serin was impeded didn't matter, by the letter of the law. Rip that up and change it.

 

Current law: 16. Any of the match officials, including the TMO, may recommend a review by the TMO. The reviews will take place in accordance with the TMO protocol.

 

New law: 16. Any of the on-field match officials may recommend a review by the TMO. The reviews will take place in accordance with the TMO protocol.

 

There is too much TMO interference in rugby. Leave decision making on the field, and add a further law.

 

New law: 17. Each captain has one TMO referral, to be used to determine whether a try should or should not have been awarded. If a referral is successful, the captain retains his TMO referral.

 

Steve Hansen is right. Like the NFL, the teams should have the right to challenge a call. Keeping it on the field is good, so giving the referral to the captain to use, but it could be used by the coaches box instead.

 

LAW 9 (DANGEROUS PLAY)

 

By the laws, it seemed Benjamin Fall had to be red carded, only for World Rugby to quash the card.

 


Nothing needs to change with the laws themselves when it comes to dangerous play. They are straight-forward and make sense.

 

Where they get confusing is in regards to cards. To take some of the interpretation out of it, there should be guidelines as to when what card is awarded.

 

New law: A yellow card is awarded for an accidental act of dangerous foul play. This is when a player did not intentionally foul an opposition player. A red card is awarded for a deliberate act of dangerous foul play.

 

This is badly needed. If we go over some of the key calls from the past three weeks, these are the cards that would have been given under these laws.

 

Sam Cane and Ofa Tu'ungafasi would have been yellow carded. Both of them. They didn't intentionally tackle Remy Grosso high, so they both get yellow cards.


 

Finally, Israel Folau is yellow carded. His act was reckless, as he pulled his Irish counterpart down following a fair challenge for the ball. You wouldn't call it an intentional tug, as he was simply trying to make sure he himself fell safely. Had the player landed on his head, it should still be a yellow.

 

It wouldn't be a perfect law, but it would be an improvement. For reckless play in particular, it is always better to have a yellow card upgraded to red after the match, than the other way around.

 

LAW 21 (IN-GOAL)

 

Israel Folau of the Wallabies is shown a yellow card by referee Pascal Gauzere after pulling down an Irish opponent.

The current laws around grounding the ball need a little work.

 

Current law: The ball can be grounded in in-goal:

* By holding it and touching the ground with it; or

* By pressing down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of a players body from waist to neck.

 

New law: The ball can be grounded in in-goal:

* By holding it and touching the ground with it; or

* By pressing down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of a players body from waist to neck.

* A player must be deemed to have control of the ball to have grounded it.

 

All too often we have those moments where a fingertip is involved in the grounding of the ball. By the laws, having the very end of your pinky flick the ball when it comes into contact with the turf should be a try. Adding the "control" element makes it much clearer.

 The referral system Hanson is talking about might be worth a try but in fact now captains tell the ref when the think something is illegal and it seems he checks in many cases when they do this.

Making sure the player has control of the ball to be awarded a try would stop this finger tip stuff.

The change related to the ref potentially being in the way sounds excessive as how many times does this happen? Plus some players may seek the ref out and then run into him. If this is proven to be a real problem than change the law otherwise leave it alone.

What do you lot have to say about changes? Beeno banning kiwis from rugby is not an option


PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Jun 2018, 11:37
#2
27 Jun 2018, 11:37#2

Can't much argue with that, apart from the one below. I still contend that no card nor even penalty should be issued for anything that can beyond reasonable doubt be judged to have been an accident. Carding or penalizing a player when their only intention was to compete within the laws of the game is stupid.

A yellow card is awarded for an accidental act of dangerous foul play.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2018, 13:25
#3
27 Jun 2018, 13:25#3

Sure - don't worry about the players safety at all - they are machines that can be written off at will.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
27 Jun 2018, 13:40
#4
27 Jun 2018, 13:40#4

My goodness JW...wasn't there any bigger text available.

You want to break my "Down Arrow"

Reviews are a good idea, but not just for tries. It should be for anything.

But, considering that the TV ref has a better view of most things, i'd go for more involvement and more accountability from him.

The mount of off-side calls that TV refs apparently don't see is insane.

For me, the tv ref is the guy sitting up there with multiple views/angles of the each side of the scrum, lineouts, tackles, off-sides and off the ball incidents. He has an all round better view things and its makes no sense having him there and giving all the tools to make calls yet putting all these restrictions in place that don't allow him to intervene whenever necessary.

He is there, he has the technology and there is no reason why he shouldn't be way more involved.



PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Jun 2018, 13:48
#5
27 Jun 2018, 13:48#5

Sure - don't worry about the players safety at all - they are machines that can be written off at will.

Try again without the sarcasm, maybe then we'll be able to figure out what exactly you have a problem with.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Jun 2018, 14:12
#6
27 Jun 2018, 14:12#6

Ha ha, sorry about that Plum. Hopefully to increased font size will help the one-eyed and otherwise visually impaired posters


I like a fast flowing game & my concern of giving more authority to the TMO is that we will end up with a slow game with too many stoppages. As a fan it's hard to figure out when to celebrate a try & it takes a while for all the reviews. I would rather have the referral system Hansen talks about and see how that goes. Sadly reffing will never be perfect but some are entertained by having a go at refs anyway

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Jun 2018, 14:12
#7
27 Jun 2018, 14:12#7

Ha ha, sorry about that Plum. Hopefully to increased font size will help the one-eyed and otherwise visually impaired posters


I like a fast flowing game & my concern of giving more authority to the TMO is that we will end up with a slow game with too many stoppages. As a fan it's hard to figure out when to celebrate a try & it takes a while for all the reviews. I would rather have the referral system Hansen talks about and see how that goes. Sadly reffing will never be perfect but some are entertained by having a go at refs anyway

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jun 2018, 14:43
#8
27 Jun 2018, 14:43#8
Many laws need to be changed......here is one simple frustration fix.....handling advantage should be instant.....allowing for penalty advantage should be over after one phase. If the attacking team doesn't want to risk the penalty they can try a tactical kick. Thereis nothing more frustrating and pointless in rugby than phase play under advantage. It seems like 95% of the time one comes back to the kick anyway.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2018, 15:02
#9
27 Jun 2018, 15:02#9

There has been extensive investigations done as to the laws - especially those related to safety of players.   You lot wanted all change because you want to "enjoy the game - irrespective of what happen to the players.

There is a problem and that relates t interpretation of laws with due regard to what preceded incident.    Maybe the referees should get a full training course on interpretation of laws and there would not be any further stupid incidents like what happened top the French in New Zealand.

Why are most of the abuses of the rules by match officials and misinterpretation happens in NZ and very rarely elsewhere? 

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
27 Jun 2018, 15:25
#10
27 Jun 2018, 15:25#10
I have previously mentioned one part of the game that I think needs to be reviewed as far as player safety is concerned. The ball carriers can get away with murder, and nothing is being done about it. Players like Etzebeth and many others run straight at a tackler and deliberately stick their elbows (Or whatever other hard body part they want to) in front of them. They even lean forward, or whatever the case may be, to make contact with whichever part of the unfortunate tackler they want...head, shoulders, neck...its all fair game. Just because you have the ball in your hands does not make deliberate head or neck contact less dangerous.
Don't believe me, check out the clip below on the time stamps provided. I didn't even watch to the end of the video. There was no need. Etzebeth is just the first player that pops to mind, but there are countless others that also do it. 
1:211:232:443:203:584:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTCJe1jt-ro

If a tackler went in elbows first to the head or neck of a ball carrier, the whole world would be up in arms...but the ball carrier on to tackler ...all good. Makes no sense. 
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Jun 2018, 15:59
#11
27 Jun 2018, 15:59#11

You lot wanted all change because you want to "enjoy the game - irrespective of what happen to the players.

How does carding a player for an accidental incident help to keep players safe? "Accidental" means you have no control over it. It can happen at any time. Two players go up for a ball as happens numerous times during a match. One falls badly and gets injured. The other one is carded. To what purpose? The damage is done. With the next high ball players will simply jump into the air to compete again.

If you want to cut out accidents like that, make a law against players competing in the air. For example, that only the receiving player is allowed to jump for the ball. Good rule for safety, bad rule for keeping the game competitive. But something like that would actually be protecting the players. Carding an accident is not only pointless as a means of player protection, but also unfair if no party involved in the accident transgressed a law.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Jun 2018, 16:15
#12
27 Jun 2018, 16:15#12

Agreed ... an accidental foul is easy to see.

So is a deliberate bit of thuggery.

Punish those who deliberately want to injure the opposing player.

It really is pointless carding someone for an accident.

Let's get on with the game.


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Jun 2018, 16:32
#13
27 Jun 2018, 16:32#13

Our reffs should be trained better. The process should be formalized with a certain agreed standard.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2018, 16:45
#14
27 Jun 2018, 16:45#14

The refs will not card players for accidental transgressions if they were properly  trained in interpretation and if they look what led up to the transgression.   

I wrote laws for SA myself and knows what happens when stupids misinterpret laws - you go to Julius - he will tell you more about that than what you know about it,      

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
27 Jun 2018, 17:36
#15
27 Jun 2018, 17:36#15


"How does carding a player for an accidental incident help to keep players safe? "Accidental" means you have no control over it. It can happen at any time."

Exactly man!

Wish my gf would understand that when I fall right off my bar stool, out of my jocks and into a romantic setting with another lady that sometimes these things happen and we have no control over them. 

Geez, like it's my fault that I was born with bad balance.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Jun 2018, 18:35
#16
27 Jun 2018, 18:35#16
I think they should look more closely at the AB opponents who deliberately use their faces to try and injure ABs elbows
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2018, 20:25
#17
27 Jun 2018, 20:25#17


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