Yes we got a few bad calls but the ref alone was not to blame for the boks poor game.

Yes got conned by the frenchie but meyers game plan and the conservative head of meyer was rearring its ugly head once again....

meyers huge amount of praise for the AB seems to have filtered through to the players as the piss poor morne steyn lived up to his rep (as i predicted correctly last week in my post)....

meyer's game plan is only based on 150% commitment and not skills at all.

watching a game where the boks dont want to play rugby but rather want to lay back and wait to tackle is not rugby in my view. makes me even more angry than the refs bad calls

 Every team in history has had crap calls against them ,no matter the sport  and almost invariably it has nothing to do with cheating by the ref ,just crap reffing. Its what you do about it that shows what your made of .Look at Wales in the RWC against FRance ! they came within an ace of winning . Thats real heart and guts.

i agree 100%

meyer is was in awhh of the occasion and talking about the honour of playing in NZ that he forgot to honour the boks by going into a game with the defeatist mentality of not being on the park. not actually trying to play rugby but rather try and let the AB play......

meyers tactics is far worse than the refs calls could every have been. he did not give the AB any honour with the type of game he is playing. cant beat the AB with defence and bad kicking mate your also going to lose. did not impose any form of attack on them huge disgrace to bok rugby.

you will have the bleeters like beeno telling you otherwise but nothing of meyers method of rugby will give the boks a fighting chance in a post modern rugby enviroment. school boy like selections of players and blind stupidty in selections is what we have to deal with in SA it seems

Wardad

Status: Squad member
Posts: 190 RE: Yes we got a few bad calls but the ref alone was not to blame for the boks poor game.
September 16, 2013, 15:33:38

 Every team in history has had crap calls against them ,no matter the sport  and almost invariably it has nothing to do with cheating by the ref ,just crap reffing. Its what you do about it that shows what your made of .Look at Wales in the RWC against FRance ! they came within an ace of winning . Thats real heart and guts.

Correct. Just look at the All Blacks against France in 2007..................................

www.youtube.com/watch

@carpetmuncher,

finally, im starting to see a little light at the end of this boring saffa owned poite tunnel.

the poite incident has put the Boks uselss gameplan well into the blindpot of the average greentinted glasses wearing fan.

but mark my words, the comments here suggest that the Boks should win in ellis park and win it easily, so i cant wait for the All Blacks to prove once and for all why bizzy playing the whole 80 would have done sweet fudge all to change the outcome.

eliis park
All Blacks by 20.

Sadly there is no light coming from the boring kiwi owned denial of truth tunnel...

Playing the All Blacks with 15 men is hard enough never mind 14, it definitely would've had a positive effect on the game had Bissie only been sent off for 10 after elbowing Messam, he owned the breakdown for the short time he was on and scored a try. 

If the All Blacks couldn't beat the Boks by 20 at the fortress of Eden then how on earth you think that it's going to happen at Ellis Park is pretty foolish. 

Alright simmer down Muncher, we all know your hidden agenda of 0 loyalty towards the Boks. You and Mike should go support the All Blacks that you so love.

@shezza first off mate i am a bok supporter through and through so never question myself or mikes loyality. it have never waiverd and for the forseeable future wont even dream of ever supporting the AB. as a coach myself at a very well known university i am left frustrated by poor school boy like selections and game play. even though we have more talent i believe than the AB . bad selections/skills development and poor tactics has always been the cancer keeping the boks from world domination. self professed lures of grandure dont help our cause of becoming the best rugby team in the world. by supporting the methods and this style of play while you know in the back of your head is not the way forward is taking lying to yourself to a complete other level. the world has moved forward in terms of game play but watching our team play against the AB once again just proves that we have a long way to go still. if you still think other wise then your just lying to yourself and that is just sad.

did bismarcks red card have a impact yes...but even if you take the bad calls out of the match there no way anyone can look me in the eye and tell me we had a fighting chance. we only have some form of grunt int he scrums but in the breakdown and just in terms of general tactics we were boys playing against men to be fair. looked like the meyer just wanted to lose with some grace but never wanted to take the game and win it. showed the AB way to much respect.

and with meyers style of game that is totally based on gain line dominance if you match meyers game plan with some power the whole house of cards implodes. no plan b not structures to allow for secondary mode of attack nothing.....fat boy louw was cartwheeled but sam cane and was as i have been saying all along not a open siders ass worth. brussouw would have tipped the balance for us but old meyer wont see his error of his ways until its to late.

i have seen many a crap ref in my time but learning your players to adapt and play around it is the real key. everyone knew the frenchy had a history but what did the boks do about it ?.....bizzie's second yellow could have easly been a red as well.

@sasue yeah mate i dont condone this ref bashing at all. this performance by the frenchy was bad but was nothing nearly as bad as old bryce in the RWC. but the ref is part of the game and if you dont play him just like you play the game then its just shame on you in my view. playing to the letter of the law and sometimes bending it is part of the game and you need to take note of it and coach towards it. learning you players to think for themselves should be a given.

@shezza on another matter since when is it the hookers job to dominate the breakdown ? is that not the primary role of the open side flank ?. shows you how warp our rugby at the top level has become. i for one i am glad SARU has limited the amount of overseas based players to 2. hope louw get the cut as he has not done anything worth mentioning since he was chosen. apart from a few spirts here and there he has not done the hard graft you expect from a open sider. if the game is to up tempo he disappears

Usually the bad calls go against the visiting team. Especially when visiting New Zealand. I really don't see New Zealand losing at home for a very long time. The refs are human, and are influenced greatly by home crowds, and the black All Black jersey. No conspiracy,  just human nature coming into play. It happens in every sport with a lot of refs. If that was Tom Taylor who bismark hit it wouldn't have even been a penalty. But it's the great All Black Dan Carter who's lying on the field injured with a home crowd getting a little nasty at you.

And I agree. Even if Bismark doesn't get that first yellow the Boks aren't winning that game. Would have made for a better game then it was though.

I never said it was the Hooker primary job...

I implied it was one of the many facets of the brilliance that is Du Plessis, most tries scored come from turn over ball so I'm guessing the breakdown is kind of a big deal in rugby...

Flouw has had 2 bad games this year, Mendoza and Eden Park. Both times speak for themselves. 

"did bismarcks red card have a impact yes...but even if you take the bad calls out of the match there no way anyone can look me in the eye and tell me we had a fighting chance. we only have some form of grunt int he scrums but in the breakdown and just in terms of general tactics we were boys playing against men to be fair. looked like the meyer just wanted to lose with some grace but never wanted to take the game and win it. showed the AB way to much respect."

You named the breakdown as a key component to why we lost and also say that Bismarks red card wouldn't of affected the outcome... You do realise that Bissie owned the All Black breakdown while he was on, don't think you watched the same match. 

" if you still think other wise then your just lying to yourself and that is just sad."

Pessimism is a lot more sadder.

Even if I were to believe the fact that you coach rugby, 100% bet that Meyer is 100x the coach you are/ever will be. 

@shezza,

"You named the breakdown as a key component to why we lost and also say that Bismarks red card wouldn't of affected the outcome... You do realise that Bissie owned the All Black breakdown while he was on, don't think you watched the same match."
i take it then u think that the Boks would have won if bizzy was on the field???

im curious, do u think if bizzy had not been sent of, that would that have stopped morne and pienaar from the useless kicking game the Boks. obviously im not talking about when bizzy was on, cos he didnt sweet fuck all to stop the usless Boks kicking game then.
the level of insinuations around here, the Boks should be clear victors, lolz.

my God would ellis park just hurry up and come already, i cant wait to see all these bloggers scatter into the wind like last year after the swoetto test when the All Blacks gave the Boks a hiding in their own backyard. remmeebr that, cos i do, sarugby.com experienced its lowest level of activity that day.

 Wouldve had a much higher chance of winning at least. When you lose one player, a lot is affected Eg - Pienaar had to throw in the ball for the line out and gifted a penalty to the All Blacks for not straight this ruining a opportunity that had Bissie been on the field of play we could've used. Also the penalty you gained from Pienaar throwing the ball in the line out resulted in Brodie Retallick's try if I'm correct, so that right there reduces the score to 22 - 15.

@shezza,

",,,,,,a lot is affected Eg - Pienaar had to throw in the ball for the line out and gifted a penalty to the All Blacks for not straight this ruining a opportunity that had Bissie been on the field of play we could've used."
as most of us have said, bizzys yellow card in the first half was a bad call.
but how did the Boks respond??? hey pienaar can throw the ball into the linouts instead. first one went all right, but the second was a farce.
the real question here is, why didnt meyer send in strauss, especially as scrums and lineout thrwos are the hookers bread and butter???

u can say as im sure u will and many others have roughly a million times to day and for the next 24 hours, that bizzys yellow card was bad, but meyers response was worse, not sending in strauss for the lineout throws, Fing retarded.

and pienaar bad throw didnt gift the All Blacks a penalty, cos its not an offence that gets u penalized.

Muncher, you are one of very few Saffer supporters on this site with a realistic view. Bismarck's red card papered over the cracks in the BOK tactics as you say.

I said on another thread last week that although the Boks looked good against Argentina at home and Oz in Brisbane, I thought they would revert to their old crash & bash game against the ABs when the pressure came on. This proved spot on. They are too scared to use the backs for fear of dropping the ball and we all know how the ABs can capitalise quickly in that situation.

The best form of defence is attack and Meyer needs to grow a pair and be prepared to lose a few games by using the counter attack instead of hoofing the ball aimlessly back to our back 3 who are more than capable under the high ball. After all, how do you expect the Bok backs to score tries unless you actually give them free licence to have a go.

Some AB supporters may remember that game against OZ (1994?) where we were I think 17-3 down in Australia at half time and looking crap. We had played a structured game to that point to no avail. Rumour has it that Laurie Mains said to his side at half time "You may as well go out there and throw it around 'cos nothing else is working!".

They did just that and scored some great tries although just failed after Jeff Wilson did his "hollywood" dive in the corner and Gregan managed to dislodge the ball. I noticed from that game forward, the ABs used all out attack in every game and the tactics haven't changed since. Hence we win more than we lose because it's very hard to organise your defensive pattern when the ball is being run back at you at all angles!

@sheeza

well if it sounds like duck its more often than not a duck......did the boks deserve the win with the current style and brand of rugby against the AB no......the meyer flat track bully style of rugby works against the likes of the pumas ext but the top 2 teams on average that tactics has only given some decent wins in the past 20 odd years sheeza....so does our style work then ? no....with our current crop of players and the amount of registered players that is allmost double the amount of players that NZ and AUS have combined do you think in your honest view that we dominating ?

secondlly i never said i am a beter coach but even i can see that this crud that meyer is dishing out is not RWC winning stuff. school boy like selections and a bad pattern of play at this international level is not going to give us the edge we need. we need that exstra 10% to take us to the next level of play. meyer and coaching staff is not going to take us there

@moola yeah exactly....this ref bashing is all masked anger and frustration which is normal but even last night on the news i saw the news crew interview PDV and they were talking about some sort of conspriacy against the boks ext.......it seems like we have decended into a world of tin foil hats and harry potter like magic...yes the red card had a impact but lets be honest the boks did not make a dent in the AB defence tier. the first couple of breakdowns old louw has outgunned and then i could see the momentum changing. apart from a few blips here and there the meyer brand of rugby has proven ineffective.

The problems is not the players but it seems that meyer is so scared to lose that he is affraid to play the game. and the best form of defence is to attack and retain the ball. i dont know maybe i have not been taking my meds recently but watching how the boks trained recently in south africa and reading the statements that meyer is making last week just proves to me that the fundamental issue is meyer is affraid. the big talk of respect and the tradition is all wonderfull and great but the type of rugby that was dished out was rubish.

as much as it pains me in recent years we cant call the NZ BOK clashes a rivalry as we have won a handfull of games where as the AB have won pretty much all the rest.

It amazes me that we're not given a shot at the match ... at all. Not with 14 men ... not even with 15 men.

I remember a match aganst the All Blacks where we were something like 23 6 down, only to come back and pip them at the post.

It is never over till the fat lady sings and when Bismark was send off she hadn't even warmed up her voice yet.

So do me a favour ... stop speculating about who woulda won. You don't know what the final out come would have been.

We never had a shot at it.

 Thanks a Bunch CC, that's my belief too, I thought the team looked good but needed to settle a little; and who knows what could have happened?

 Agreed, the Boks never found any rithem,  we were robbed of a chance to see what could have been. The contest were so hyped beforehand and it all deflated in one absurd moment. NZ was also robbed. The whole game was tainted. No malice from NZ or the ref for that matter. It was a mistake. Fans are totally overreacting.  If the shoe was on the other foot and one of the NZders were sent off at that time with a red to follow later on and the Boks won, we would have taken the win. No need to blame NZ for this shit. If by some miracle the boks start to get the same kind of results as the kiwis for an extended period of time,  we will also start to get the rub of the green on the 50/50 calls. Hope there is no controversy in the last match. 

I think muncher is trying to fit his version of the facts to fit his meuyer bashing theories which have been unravelling.

Stop and think for a moment. what would the score have been if the abs had 14 men on the field for 50 miutes of the game?

Was that first try of the abs really a try?

As Moz pointed out and that thread I posted about there being much the Boks can take out of thsi game - it was amazing how well we did.

I recall us getting thumped some 50 points by England when Labuschagne was red carded shorly after the game had begun. Nothing remotely like that happened. As was mentioned some of the stats were astonishingly good given the circumstances.

Well done to the Bokke!

 I hate this f'n Meyer bashing, he has been one of our better coaches, I rate him, White, christy and some degree mallet quite highly. When we smashed the Wobblies he was our hero, now that the red mist has settled he is a zero.

my biggest disappointment was some of the players and not the coach, pienaar to me has to go. He has been absolutely rubbish, no Bmt, same for Kirchner, flip and Kruger. Steyn is okay and actually play better when du Preez is on. Time to get psdt in the team, move Lambie to 15. I would prefer that he plays 10 but he is still young and versatile. 

Beeno, why are you doubting Read's try was legitimate. The ref obviously saw the ball grounded over the line as all he asked the TMO was "Is there any reason I cannot award a try?".

The only reason he would have asked that is that he must have lost sight of the ball for a second and wanted to make sure Read had not lost it forward at any time in the manoeuvre. the TMO saw nothing untoward and reported back to the ref. What's the problem?

 @Moolaa: thanks for taking the time to explain this to Beeno. You said exactly what I would (I think a few others have said it also) but I couldn't be bothered. Our buddy Beeno is not open to reason on refs, lol

No Beandip ... your confused ... as usual.

Their first try was a cleverly worked out strategy that fooled us completely. We were out smarted by it. Well played to them.

I don't have an issue with any of the points they scored.

That's not the point . It has nothing to do anything ... please join the rest of us on the same page ...