Tiann Schoeman

Why, Why, Why is this person in the Springbok team? He is barely Curry Cup standard.  Surely even Morne Steyn would be a much better option.

 SB
One thing is for sure - on my list of flyhalfs in South Africa Morne is not in the top 10 such players.    He is a never-has-been and was normally a disgrace when it comes to flyhalf play with -
*    constant aimless kicking handing over ball possession to the opposition;*    non-existing option taking and attacking play; and*    a disastrous defensive record. 
Morne is a good goal kicker - his only asset.   For the rest he is absolutely a crap flyhalf.    

 Morne is as bad as they come. There is just too many issues with his game to warrant his selection. We saw how awful he was against the All Blacks. Why would we want that any where near the Boks?
Schoeman is slightly less useless. A good kicker of the ball, stands a little flatter but has nothing special  to offer on attacke nor defence.
It seems his main focus on the field is to end the match with not a single hair is out of place and as far as I've seen, he's rather skilled at that.

 Yes Morne is beyond his sell by date.... but to say he is and never has been one of out top 10 is just a dumb statement and exposes your bias against him. The only disgrace is having to skim over these duplication posts of yours.To be the player to hold the individual points tally in a game against the AB's, and second highest career total for the Boks  speaks to his ability (in his day).

Spot on BokBF. Morne was a valuable player and holds a string of South African test records. 

 I said he is a good kicker at goal - the sum-total of his records.   The rest of his game was always pathetically poor.  

 Morne Steyn is playing a watered down version of the same style he's had all his life.
He has NEVER been anything special on attack and let's face it, his defensive efforts in his hey-day was much the same we see today ... school boy stuff.
Making him out to be this special player is just not true.
He kicks ... and he kicks ... and he kicks ... and from these kicks came the records. He has nothing else to boast about. Completely "skop verskrik". 
You tell me where I have it wrong.

 

You guys must have great memories to remember every nuance of Morne's play for the last 9 years. 
Morne's test tackle success at flyhalf (2009 - 2016) is 88% (I disregarded games against minnows like Namibia, Samoa, Fiji etc). He was an extremely secure tackler especially in the 2009 - 2013 period. Hardly schoolboy stuff. Matter of fact, he managed a 100% tackle record in 25 tests, while dipping below 70% in only 5 tests (3 of those his last three). 
So, both CC and Mike have it wrong about his defensive record.
Interestingly, in the 2010 S14, the Bulls' outside backs with Morne at the helm scored more tries than the outside backs of any other team in the competition. 
Yes, he was predominantly a kicking flyhalf, but there was more to his game than that and absolutely nothing wrong with his tackling in his prime years. 

 I don't believe that.
The Morne I've been watching all these years has been a defensive nightmare.
I can also assure you that even though the Bulls scored a lot of trys those days it had nothing to do with Morne but rather everything to do with Fourie Du Preez.
Morne has always been is as average as they come.


 

 So lets take his last three starting tests and the result is a missed tackle ratio of 40%.   Add to that the Ellis Park test where he missed two tackles on players scoring tries - ben Smith and Barret.  Plus a number of other missed tackles as well.
The defense of Morne as a player has always been a classic - he is kicking so well at goal.   His defenders never explained why -
*    he is more often than not the bench flyhalf for his club;*    he is so poor in passing and attacking play - standing to deep in the pocket ad neutralizing the whole backline outside of him;*   he is so prone to aimless and poorly directed kicks.
Morne is a good player of Jake-ball but we all know that is not rugby.       

The Morne I've been watching all these years has been a defensive nightmare.

Ok, let's take the NZ Herald Super Rugby defensive stats. From 2010 - 2013 Morne scores respectively 90.8, 91.6, 87.7 and 90.8% tackle success. Compare that to Dan Carter's 88, 90.2, 87.8 and 87.5. Quade Cooper mostly hovers in the 70s. 
In passes per game, compared to Carter in Super Rugby (Steyn on the left, Carter on the right, average passes per game):
2010: 16.1 - 20.32011: 19.4 - 22.72012: 15.8 - 16.62012: 18.6 - 26.3
Those are pretty close numbers for a flyhalf who supposedly only kicks and starves his outside players of possession, measured against the best flyhalf of the last decade. The only blowout difference is in 2013, but in that year Morne carried the ball 100 times for 526m gain, while Carter carried 98 times for 407m gain, for an average of 1m more per carry than Carter. 
I know, just numbers without context, but it's the closest thing we have to forming a solid picture over such a long period of time. Bottom line: a flyhalf with no attacking or running game could not have rivaled Dan Carter for running meters. 
So lets take his last three starting tests and the result is a missed tackle ratio of 40%

Yes, let's take a player's last three performances in the twilight of his career to form an overall picture of his ability for a test career of 7 years. That's fair, is it? 
No one is saying Steyn was some sort of superhero. But give him his due - he could do more than just kick, and in his prime there was nothing wrong with his tackling.
But I have a feeling you guys have your minds made up regardless of any data to the contrary, so this is probably wasted effort.

 Pakie to have a meaningful discussion you need to be able to look at the other persons perspective. If you have a bias or an agenda that is not going to happen. No point in engaging as it is just a waste of keystrokes. There are a number of pigeons on this site.
 Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious

"Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a sh!t on the table, and strut around like its victorious".

Actually, that pigeon sounds just like Dense!

 Pakie
It is the effect of the rugby played that there are serious problems.   Morne routinely stand so far back that he becomes totally ineffective.   His passes are made with the defenders on top of the recipient way behind the gain line.   That makes his passes effectively hospital passes.  
Defenders routinely ignore Morne and go for the inside center, knowing that he is crap in decisionmaking and attacking of the gain line.  
Morne never attacks the gain lie like Carter routinely did.   His running meters are made up of catching kicked balls and running a few meters before making an aimless counter-kick.   If he was attacking the gain line your comparison may be of some value - but it just did not happen.
Just give me an answer to one question.   Racing Metro contracted Carte r and he is their first choice flyhalf - Morne is contracted by Stade Francais and he is routinely their bench flyhalf -  Why should that be?
      

Racing contracted Goosen....is he there first choice flyhalf, or do they prefer a 34 year old New Zealnder?

 Moz, Goosen ws their POTY, not Carter...must count for something...not?

 Goosen is always in the starting line-up of Racing and he has evolved as their most valuable player - and recognized with the recent award.   Nei ther Fat Fransie and Morne can claim that distinction.    A previous time when  he played at flyhalf for Racing against Stade Francais - he made Morne look like a second grade flyhalf.   Last season in the Top 14 semi - he played at center against Montpellier and he played the fool with Fat Fransie.  
 

Goosen would be my starting 10, followed by Jantjies and finally Lambie. 
Goosen did not set the world alight at 15- but he was certainly better than the slow Lambie. 
Lambie doesn't have the pace to be a 15- and rarely gets his backline running when at 10. I am not convinced of his form since his return from the fiasco earlier in the year. 
Goosen is the most all round player of the three. 
Jantjies, unfortunately, is stuck playing the brainless Coetzee game plan- so there is limited hope. 

His passes are made with the defenders on top of the recipient way behind the gain line.   That makes his passes effectively hospital passes.
Absolute nonsense.
Defenders routinely ignore Morne and go for the inside center, knowing that he is crap in decisionmaking and attacking of the gain line.  

How many games did you analyze play by play to gather enough data to reach this conclusion? My guess is none. It's another thumbsuck like the "disastrous defensive record".
His running meters are made up of catching kicked balls and running a few meters before making an aimless counter-kick. If he was attacking the gain line your comparison may be of some value - but it just did not happen.

Did you analyze the whole of the Bulls 2013 Super Rugby season or are you just fabricating again? Tell us the score of even one Bulls game in that season without looking it up if you remember what happened so well.
Just give me an answer to one question.   Racing Metro contracted Carter and he is their first choice flyhalf - Morne is contracted by Stade Francais and he is routinely their bench flyhalf -  Why should that be?

Gee, let me think. I would say (and this is a wild guess, bit of an out there theory) but I would say it's because Carter is a vastly superior player that fits the type of game Racing wants to play. What would you say?

 Pakie
I will just repeat what Hansen said about Morne Steyn.   He stated that they know what to expect from Steyn.   Do you understand that statement or are you to dim to realise what it means.   
Even Meyer dropped Steyn from the team - once in 2012 and twice in 2014.   The last case was insofar as Meyer was considered the final straw - he never started for the Springboks in the remainder of the term of office of Meyer and his recent tests he did start he was a flop as well.
By the way the classic in the Bulls Super Rugby season was when Morne made another flop kick that bounces inside the Bulls half and the brumbies scored the winning try.   that was the worst kick I have ever seen a flyhalf made.  
Hell - it is only a nut case like you that can compare Steyn and Carter as flyhalfs - a real nut case.   Carter is a class act - Steyn is a flop.     

Hell - it is only a nut case like you that can compare Steyn and Carter as flyhalfs - a real nut case.   Carter is a class act - Steyn is a flop. 
As usual, you completely missed the point. Don't know why I bother.

Hell - it is only a nut case like you that can compare Steyn and Carter as flyhalfs - a real nut case.   Carter is a class act - Steyn is a flop. 
As usual, you completely missed the point. Don't know why I bother.

 I did not miss the point - since you never had a point.  You compared a race horse with a cart horse and tried to prove  heaven knows what.    You use stats to try and prove it - yet you do not look at the actual content in what happened on the field of play.   That is why your so-called interpretations are so flawed and full of misrepresentations sometimes bordering on actual lies.   But don't feel alone - your mate Mozart is equally guilty.
Comparing Morne Steyn to Carter - LMAO

Anyone with half a functioning brain cell will understand why I used Carter as a benchmark, just like they'd understand that I didn't once try to imply that Morne and Carter are in the same league. I simply compared him to the best in the world to show how overstated or just plain wrong your assertions were - either complete nonsense (the "disastrous defensive record", where two independent sources confirm Morne's tackling in his prime to be every bit as secure as Carter's) or dubious at best ("non-existing option taking and attacking play").  
Stop your rabid foaming-at-the-mouth efforts to discredit Morne and anyone who provides a balanced assessment of him and you may pick up on these subtleties. 

 There was no real logic in what you wrote.   Morne Steyn remains the poores and clueless flyhalf in world rugby and all your stats comparing it with those of Carter - is tommy-rot.  
Problem is that your brain cell stopped functioning years ago and your repetitive junk has be the same all the time.   Your favourites are the same as those f Mozart and yur prejudice is also the same - nothing ne from you.
Even Meyer - who virtually were in tears when he dropped Morne Steyn in 2012 - he was accosted after a church service by the dimwits like you on the issue.  If you cannot see or realize what is wrong with Morne Steyn's performanes it is  because the brain cell went dim.   Meyer ultimately realized it - but it never dawned on you.