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According to Mozart De Kock is useless - was he ever right?

Started by clevermike23 REPLIES1,227 VIEWS· 23 Jan 2022, 14:54
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2022, 14:54
#1
23 Jan 2022, 14:54#1

The following from MSBC:-


 

"India vs South Africa: Quinton de Kock has gone level with Ab de Villiers and broken a long-standing record of Virender Sehwag after his century in the third ODI.


Quinton de Kock has broken a long-standing Virender Sehwag record

The South African wicket-keeper also level Ab de Villiers in an elite list of players

De Kock scored the 17th ODI century of his career against India in Cape Town.

After a flamboyant knock of 78 which helped South Africa win the second ODI of the ongoing series against India which helped the Proteas seal a series win, Quinton de Kock has continued his fine form with a stunning century in the third ODI of the series at Cape Town. 

 

After India won the toss and chose to field first in the final game of the series, de Kock played a flawless knock and reached the three-figure mark in just 108 deliveries to set the hosts up for a big score.   

Due to his phenomenal century in India, de Kock has broken a plethora of records. 

Most ODI 100s vs India
7 S Jayasuriya (85 inngs)
6 Q de Kock (16 inngs) 
6 AB de Villiers (32 inngs)
6 R Ponting (59 inngs)
6 K Sangakkara (71 inngs)

 

Meanwhile, de Kock has also broken a long-standing record of legendary Indian opener Virender Sehwag. The South African wicket-keeper has taken the fewest innings in ODI cricket history to score six tons against the same opponent

Fewest innings to six ODI 100s vs an opponent
16 Q de Kock vs Ind 
23 V Sehwag vs NZ
23 A Finch vs Eng
26 Saeed Anwar vs SL


Moreover, de Kock has also overtaken Australia's Adam Gilchrist (16) in the list of designated wicket-keepers with the most centuries in ODI cricket history. Only Kumar Sangakkara (23) has more tons to his name. 

Most ODI 100s by designated WKs
23 K Sangakkara
17 Q de Kock *
16 A Gilchrist
10 AB de Villiers/ S Hope/ MS Dhoni

 

Mozart rate him as useless and that says it all.  



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Jan 2022, 16:23
#2
23 Jan 2022, 16:23#2

Geluk Kokkie!

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jan 2022, 19:51
#3
23 Jan 2022, 19:51#3

Nice innings. But I have to point out no pressure with the series won….docile wicket with no movement….not the best Indian attack and a low level of intensity on the field. And the lucky packet came  good.

A great player of mediocre bowling and a disaster under pressure, witness his record in World Cups.

Stick with moz.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2022, 23:18
#4
23 Jan 2022, 23:18#4

If you want to stick with Mozart you must also be ready to enter an asylum.     

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
24 Jan 2022, 04:14
#5
24 Jan 2022, 04:14#5

The first noticeable thing about Quinton is that he's a stroke player and the second is that he never seems rushed, blessed with timing he uses the pace of the ball to guide it through the gaps in the field. A natural free flowing batsman who generally chooses to play at the ball when others might choose to defend.  Quite unique and distinctly different to the likes of batsmen who choose to punish the ball Quinton will carve up a bowler much like a butcher with a knife, he never clubs a ball or strains to hit hard. Timing is everything with a good centre of gravity, good balance, delicate nudges to balls bowled at his feet and a good stride forward when making a cover drive. He also has excellent economy of movement. Runs flow from early in his innings and his run rate accelerates the longer he's at the crease......exactly what's needed in the shorter versions of the game. 

His style of play is more suited to the shorter version of the game than it is to Test cricket which is reflected in his averages in the relevant formats. 

Although he's not in the class of Mark Waugh and never will be there is one comparison in that he always seems to have plenty of time to stroke the ball. 

Quinton De Kock as I've previously stated is not in the class of AB De Villiers, or Kallis or Ponting etc....he is what he is, a good batsman who would easily slot into any of the top 4 sides in the world.

An in form Quinton is a pleasure to watch......glad to see it's back as I'm sure all fans are.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jan 2022, 11:30
#6
24 Jan 2022, 11:30#6

Mozart

So De Kock was under no pressure - and he made by implication no real contribution to the series win against India,   The problem is the highest  scoring batsmen were -

*    De Kock            -     229  runs

*    Van der Dussen       218  runs

*    Bavuma                   153 runs

Stupid is clearly evident in your reasoning above.   


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
24 Jan 2022, 13:49
#7
24 Jan 2022, 13:49#7
...and everybody, myself included, were complaining about Dussen and Bavuma before this series began.
They're all in form for now and my guess is that when Bangladesh come here(March) we'll smash them. It'll be a while before anyone else gets a shot in the line-up.
Markram easily the biggest batting failure of both the Tests and the ODIs.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jan 2022, 18:49
#8
24 Jan 2022, 18:49#8
A lot more purple prose about de Kock, but here’s  the record in WCs
ODI
7, 7, 12,1, 0, 26, 78*,14…2015 WC
68, 23, 10, 17*, 68,5, 47, 15, 52….2019WC
Average ODIs 30.0
T 20s
25, 4, 4, 0, 26, 6….2014 WC
52, 45, 47, 9….2016 WC
7, 12, 16, 34…..2021 WC
Average  T20s ….20.5
Overall average in WC matches 26.1
Scores in knockout games vs pool games.
ODIs….78*, 14
T 20s…..6
So one good score of 78 not out in the knockouts. But that was chasing a total of 134 and Sri Lanka pretty much conceded. The pattern of failure under pressure is also evident in key pool games. Like the 5 against NZ in the 2019 ODI WC, when we needed to win to stay alive.
………
So what we see at WCs is average performance in ODIs and mediocre performance in T20s. And a failure to come through in big games. For a player who has been described as our premier batsman, these are not the results of a player that helps get his team into the knockouts…..let alone win WCs.
There is no argument that De Kock in full flow can be a devastating batsman. But you can’t count on him under pressure or when the ball is moving. In cricket, thankfully, the stats are definitive and they are crystal clear.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jan 2022, 20:21
#9
24 Jan 2022, 20:21#9

The issue of BS is  all under pressure.  The fact is that lack of run-scoring by his opening partners in limited over games cause him to hit out and remedy the situation.     He always tried to get the highest potentials trike rate for the team - that is a brave approach and occasionally he goes out cheaply.   He has an average of above 40 in ODI's - which is way above that of for instance Graeme Smith,   His strike rate is over 96 - which is just about a run for every ball he faces.   

So what happened in the last three series he played in - he was the highest scorer of runs in all three and had a major contribution to  winning of all three series.   

Now back to 2015 when De Kock was blamed for everything potentially possible by you.   De Kock then was 22 years old and  and due to injury  was absent from the game for two months - his return game was the first game played in the WC.   So now 7 years later you repeat all the garbage if nothing ever happened since.     The only WC since then was in 2019 when De Kock was the highest run-scoring batsman and the team was let own by the totally out of form Amla.   The whole squad was disfunctioning.    

 However, the day De Kock replaced Graeme Smith in the ODI's in 2013 your attacks on him started  and it never changed.   Firstly he could not bat against fast bowling, then he could not bat against spin bowling - so according to you he cannot bat.   One can expect one thing from you and that is prejudice in respect of all codes of sport, whether it is rugby cricket or tennis player involved.    It never change and in the process you routinely must be an embarrassment.   .                          .   

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jan 2022, 20:21
#10
24 Jan 2022, 20:21#10

Duplication

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jan 2022, 21:05
#11
24 Jan 2022, 21:05#11

It’s his partner’s fault….how feeble….but amazing de Kock was still playing when, as you say, he was 212 years old. My kind of player.

Nonetheless even though I like that kind of maturity his latest implosion in the T20 WC demonstrates my point, even as he’s gained experience his flaws trip him up.

The stats are crystal clear….this is not like Dud Allende blowing the Pom test or Dud Toit gifting the Wallies a try at the WC….you can’t pretend that’s not his average score. Because it is.

Game, set and match….bet you wish you hadn’t started this string….you never learn.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jan 2022, 21:29
#12
24 Jan 2022, 21:29#12

Listen think for a change - De Kock is ranked as the 9th best batsman in the world  - so how bad can he be.  He is by far the best wicketkeeper - batsman in the world as well.    So start getting real for a change - incidentally the next SA batsman after De Kock is Van der Dussen at 20.  

Now lets consider something straight.   Amla was a huge problem in the 2019 CWC - he either went out early or scored at a painfully inadequate pace.   That is not a feeble excuse.

The item under discussion deals with ODI's and not T20I's and the fact is that you blame De Kock for things caused by other players.    So you make a total asshole of yourself all the time.     

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jan 2022, 21:29
#13
24 Jan 2022, 21:29#13

Listen t hink for a change - De Kock is ranked as the 9th best batsman in the world  - so how bad can he be.  He is by far the best wicketkeeper - batsman in the world as well.    So.start geting real for a change - incidentally the next SA batsman after De Kock is Van der Dussen at 20.  

No lets consider something straight.   Amla was a huge problem in the 2019 CWC - he either went out early or scored at a painfully inadequate pace.   That is not a feeble excuse.

The story about De Allende losing the English test and Du Toit gifting a try to Wales are made-up BS made up by you and and nobody else came near to alleging that - you have a gift through  prejudice  making a complete idiot of yourself.      

The item under discussion deals with ODI's and not T20I's and the fact is that you blame De Kock for things caused by other players.    So you make a total asshole of yourself all the time.     

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jan 2022, 00:00
#14
25 Jan 2022, 00:00#14

Nonsense Ock’s failures had nothing to do with Amla. I suppose Amla caused his implosion in 2021 T20 WC? His ranking is generated by numbers, I provide the numbers for WC matches where he wouldn’t be ranked in the top 50. A great player of mediocre bowling….but only if there isn’t any  pressure.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jan 2022, 00:57
#15
25 Jan 2022, 00:57#15

In the 2019   WC it had everything to do with Amla's failures.    So all the 16 centuries were  against mediocre bowling like that of Bumrah - the present best bowler in the world.    Hell - you sound more stupid in every posting you make.    . 

The only stats that count are career stats and picking and choosing those you want to apply and ignoring the rest is pathetic.    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jan 2022, 02:27
#16
25 Jan 2022, 02:27#16
No I choose the stats from the biggest occasions. It’s quite simple…. In 5 WCs Ock has never come good. And that has played a big part in our mediocre record.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
25 Jan 2022, 02:34
#17
25 Jan 2022, 02:34#17
Moz’s take on de Kock is on par with his take on PSDT and DA
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jan 2022, 05:21
#18
25 Jan 2022, 05:21#18

Yup….all hyped and forgiven when they screw up. But in cricket the numbers are conclusive.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jan 2022, 07:14
#19
25 Jan 2022, 07:14#19

All performing players are always under attack by Mozart and the ineffective players praised by him.   If they fail to perform stupid excuses can somehow be dream up to blame other players for their deficiencies. 

Mozart is an expert to choose selective stats and ignore the total scenario when it fits his idiocy.   .       

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
25 Jan 2022, 11:49
#20
25 Jan 2022, 11:49#20
Yes de Kock’s numbers are very good
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jan 2022, 17:46
#21
26 Jan 2022, 17:46#21

The present rankings are as follows;-

De Kock is in the top five for the first time since the ICC Men’s Cricket World Cup 2019 after aggregating 229 runs that included a match-winning 124 in the final match in Cape Town.

The wicketkeeper-batter has moved up four places after his Player of the Series effort.

Van der Dussen, who scored 218 runs, has advanced 10 places to reach a career-best 10th position.

Now lets get back to reality - the  4th place is held by Ross Taylor with only 4 points more than De Kock - however Taylor has retired and he will soon be out of the top 10 ranked players.   So De Kock is effectively the forth best ODI  batsman in the world.    

By the way Mozart - in the 2019 WC you in your idiocy claimed  that De Kock was the weak link in the SA  Team - yet he came out of the WC with a world batting  ranking of 5  so he was not the disaster your prejudice says he was.  

  

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
27 Jan 2022, 09:25
#22
27 Jan 2022, 09:25#22

For months we've beem told ad nauseum that Quinny can only bat on flat wickets, that he was useless when the ball moved, and that he left a gap. In other words he's technically flawed......a broken player. Well if he left a gap opposition coaches with the assistance of video analysis would be instructing his bowlers to exploit that technical weakness....not so? Strange then that in his last twenty test innings he's been dismissed overwhelmingly caught not bowled. Cry me a river!

"He can only bat on flat wickets." 

Yeah right, how is it possible to score below 10 runs in one innings and a ton or more in another and vice versa? To score 22/50 and 6/100 in Test cricket with a highest score of 141 at times outscoring his fellow team mates. And if he only scored big on flat wickets when the ball wasn't moving then it begs the question why not his team mates.

His ODI results

M- 127

Innings 127

Ave 46.19

50's - 27

100's - 17

Highest score 178

Plenty of leaving a gap in that lot huh!


Really?

Oh my aching sides...








MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Jan 2022, 05:13
#23
31 Jan 2022, 05:13#23

Oh dear the Quisling has emerged….is it safe enough for the poor dear. Here are the numbers….his WC average is 26.1 ….in 30 innings, so a large sample of his play under pressure. He has failed to rise above mediocre on the biggest stage. 

But he is chilled….hahaha. What a tit.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Feb 2022, 07:14
#24
02 Feb 2022, 07:14#24

BS can at times be amusing.   

— END OF THREAD —

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