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FORUM / CRICKET /  Duminy experiment ....blown out the water by Pakistan?

Duminy experiment ....blown out the water by Pakistan?

Started by Mozart26 REPLIES2,143 VIEWS· 10 Mar 2015, 03:49
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Mar 2015, 03:49
#1
10 Mar 2015, 03:49#1

Cape Town – He has personally acknowledged that he was among the errant characters with the bat in South Africa’s reverse to Pakistan ... but it is JP Duminy’s short-lived bowling effort in Auckland that may have spooked the Proteas more at the World Cup.

Whilst opinion remains massively divided about the optimal shape of the South African XI, the team’s brains trust would have pleased some observers – at least immediately ahead of that game – as they finally tried the “seven frontline batsmen” formula for the first time at the tournament.

Of course it automatically meant that, ideally, Duminy would contribute as near as possible to a full 10-over bowling stint to make up for the resultant trimming of a bowler.

The trouble was that the Pakistanis, quite possibly in a concerted, pre-planned initiative, got stuck into his off-breaks with some relish – three overs leaking a damaging 34 runs -- and the Proteas found themselves instead having to entrust captain AB de Villiers with the bigger share of the fifth bowler’s duty with his essentially part-time, tranquil medium-pacers.

Between them, the pair conceded 77 runs in nine overs which undid much of the yeoman work done by their more specialist bowling quartet in what was a reasonably low-scoring affair.

De Villiers wasn’t all bad: after travelling for 20 runs in his first two overs, he came back fairly commendably to end with an analysis of 6-0-43-1 and some immeasurably more competent bowlers than he is have taken greater stick during the largely batting-friendly event so far.

Think, for instance, of Steven Finn’s gruesome concession of 49 runs from only two overs for England against a Brendon McCullum-fired New Zealand, and even that feared chin musician Mitchell Johnson copping a 68-run walloping in six overs from the very same Black Caps at Eden Park only a week before the Proteas ran out there.

Yet the stark fact remains that Duminy -- undoubtedly intended beforehand as the weightier bowling contributor than De Villiers on the day -- had a difficult, necessarily curtailed stint just when he was most firmly under focus in that department.

The question for coach Russell Domingo and others to ponder is whether the diminutive “offie” merely had the kind of bilious day any bowler on the planet can experience from time to time.

Simultaneously, they will have to decide whether there’s been enough evidence that someone like De Villiers can be a suitable, more consistent fill-in option against quality opposition if Duminy is targeted and part of his tab has to be picked up, as it were.

Interestingly, now after six bowling stints in his 184 one-day internationals – and most of them pretty recently – De Villiers’ average (31.00) is actually slightly better than that of squad-mate Farhaan Behardien (33.25) who is another possible candidate to share a 10-over quota with Duminy when necessary.

In fairness, Behardien boasts a better economy rate: 5.34 as opposed to De Villiers’s 6.45, although there increasingly seems little to separate them as dibbly-dobbly seamers.

Still, it will be making Domingo and his lieutenants understandably nervous that Duminy, for all his occasional usefulness and variety on the bowling front, has still only ever completed a full 10 overs four times in 88 bowling stints at ODI level.

His World Cup 2015 performance thus far is iffy, too: a combined total of 18 overs across three matches (Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan) at a cost of 118 runs, for one wicket at an economy rate of six and a half.

Yet muddling the huge team-composition quandary further is that, at the end of the day, South Africa surrendered their latest match more on the grounds of over-zealous and rash batting by various, key individuals than through collective bowling woe.

They will know they could -- and should -- have hunted down the required 232.

Beefing up the bowling once more helps them in one department, but what then of the weakening effect on a batting line-up just beginning to show signs of a tentative psyche and unhealthy dependency on De Villiers for game-tilting carnage?  

Admittedly without abundant confidence, a personal view – and I accept it won’t be universally shared -- is that the Proteas should show some backbone rather than jerk a knee: give this formula a further chance to work rather than scuttle back to past models also laden with imperfections.

There are all sorts of other factors to take into account, of course, like Quinton de Kock’s continuing CWC misery at the front of the order – at what point do you pull the plug? – and considerable uncertainty over the fitness of Vernon Philander for the business end of the World Cup.

Let’s face it, this is not an especially enviable time to be selector of a Proteas ODI team, as no combination under present circumstances will look emphatically watertight.

The only comfort for the time being, as the closing Pool B challenge of minnow United Arab Emirates looms in Wellington on Thursday, is that South Africa should win that one even if they were to pick eight blessed bowlers for it ...

*Follow our chief writer on Twitter: @RobHouwing

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Mar 2015, 10:28
#2
10 Mar 2015, 10:28#2
 He is a class bowler who can bowl 10 overs. Ask Safes. ex
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
10 Mar 2015, 10:45
#3
10 Mar 2015, 10:45#3
 Vlag you don't know (_)  you dumb (  ) bet you never went to uni , you (  ) &  (  ) off where  you (  ) , Dawie .
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 11:02
#4
10 Mar 2015, 11:02#4

Ah so one over where three 6's were hit off him in one over on a rugby field now defines JP as a bowler, this after having a career average of 5 per over.

 

We have some real cricketing brainboxes on this site.......so all of a sudden JP is not up to it and his career run rate is just a load of crap......one that spans some 10 years or so.

 

You boys know your cricket so well!!!!

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Mar 2015, 11:54
#5
10 Mar 2015, 11:54#5
 Hang on a minute. You have to decide how we have to look at stats. In the one hand we are not allowed to point out that Miller's averages were influenced by two outlier performances against popgun bowling, yet you want us to accept that this bowling by Duminy was an outlier bowling performance?
Fact is that you keep on arguing that Duminy is a good enough bowler to be used for 10 overs, i.e. a front-line bowler. All we are saying is that he is nothing more than a relief bowler who should never be more than one of the "fifth bowlers". He cannot be a seen as a front-line bowler. This bowling innings supports that view. This was an innings where the chips were down and he just had to perform and bowl better. Problem is that, by all accounts, his poor bowling then probably also impacted on his batting and he failed with the bat as well. Ironic, like Miller, he also produced a "steller" batting performance against Zim, and then (as one of the experienced players) folded against both India and Pakistan. 
He is a batsman first. He is by no means an all-rounder.  
In addition to the above, you keep on saying that the experienced players also let the team down but Duminy was the only one of the experienced players who really let them down. Go check. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 12:30
#6
10 Mar 2015, 12:30#6

Nope I define Miller by his overall average you idiot, just as I do JP with his bowling..........neither are defined by an innings or two.......what part of that do you not get.......its you that wants to define these players by a over or two bowled or the exclusion of an innings or two......you are the one opening yourself up to the bloody fool you are.

 

Miller's average has increased in the last year.......telling me he is getting better at the highest level.

 

JP's bowling average has always been around the 5 mark, being smacked for three 6's in an over on a rugby field is hardly going to impact that or dictate that moving forward he will now always be smacked for three 6's in an over.

 

Have you come to realise how stupid you are looking here......but keep going......its worth a laugh  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Mar 2015, 21:09
#7
10 Mar 2015, 21:09#7
 Overall averages count for bugger all when you fold in crunch matc hes........
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Mar 2015, 01:26
#8
11 Mar 2015, 01:26#8
He has completed 10 full overs 4 times in 88 stints!!!!! Any average in the light of that stat is flawed. Bowling a few overs is very different to being a regular 10 over bowler.....and much easier, especially if you are brought on early after a few wickets are down. Finshing your spell of 10 overs in overs forty to fifty is a different animal. 
On Saturday when he was on the brink of being taken to the cleaners he was withdrawn. So de facto he wasn't acting as the fifth front line bowler....just a change bowler which is what he should be. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Mar 2015, 10:38
#9
11 Mar 2015, 10:38#9
"On Saturday when he was on the brink of being taken to the cleaners he was withdrawn........" Which probably saved hi m from ending up with 15+ per over.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
11 Mar 2015, 10:40
#10
11 Mar 2015, 10:40#10
Experiment flop...let's move on.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Mar 2015, 11:19
#11
11 Mar 2015, 11:19#11
Clueless, absolutely clueless  
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
11 Mar 2015, 11:27
#12
11 Mar 2015, 11:27#12
It's best not to know than not to know that you don't know.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Mar 2015, 11:50
#13
11 Mar 2015, 11:50#13
Ah so in your opinion Denny, because JP got targeted in one game on a tiny field and the bat got away with it, that now all of a sudden JP is a failure and that we should disregard the fact that he has a half decent career average as a bowler......I mistakenly thought you knew your cricket......so in effect you are defining JP based on 3 balls.....in a nutshell.......wow  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Mar 2015, 11:54
#14
11 Mar 2015, 11:54#14
Ou Saffex getting all emotional and watery eyed over his beloved JP again. Nobody wants to discard of him. We just do not agree with your idea of having him as a front line bowler. Now stop sobbing and dry your eyes. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Mar 2015, 11:55
#15
11 Mar 2015, 11:55#15
Your best post ever Vlagshit  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Mar 2015, 11:59
#16
11 Mar 2015, 11:59#16
Thanks mate. Knew you would love it.  
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
11 Mar 2015, 12:07
#17
11 Mar 2015, 12:07#17

Dave, me mate, you're so predictable.....and boring.


It's an all too familiar line of yours....as soon as anyone disagrees with your view then he doesn't know or his stupid or his ignorant  and it gets worse.....it's the immature way we all had when we were 10yr olds.


Do grow-up. Now if you'll excuse me I know when I'm wasting my time ...cya.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Mar 2015, 14:54
#18
11 Mar 2015, 14:54#18

Look here Denny you fucking waste of space......at what point did I say you were stupid, ignorant or anything of the like.....my tone was fine.......unlike yours you worthless prick......your response is the very reason you are a wanker and always will be one.

 

Fuck you and fuck off you C U N T  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Mar 2015, 15:40
#19
11 Mar 2015, 15:40#19
Dave your problem is you don't take facts on board.....when the information changes you have to adapt. Otherwise you end up being the only person on the planet who still thinks JJ should play 13 for the Boks.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Mar 2015, 16:19
#20
11 Mar 2015, 16:19#20

Wrong.....I know exactly what the stats say.....the stats tell me Miller's average has improved since he moved up the order to 5.....this is a material fact.......much like its a fact that JP's career average is just over 5 per over......again a material fact.......I don't then define players by an innings or two.

 

Nothing will change the fact that I believe Miller is a class act and will succeed at the highest level, much like nothing will change the fact that I believe JP is good enough to bowl 10 overs............we don't have an out and out allrounder in SA.....JP is our best bet.

 

We cant afford to play with 5 specialist bowlers and restrict ourselves to 6 bats......and there is no way in hell we can play useless Berhardien.....for he cant bat and his bowling is no better than AB's  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Mar 2015, 16:36
#21
11 Mar 2015, 16:36#21

Actually we can afford to do that....we are almost forced to do that. Without a good all rounder  (we should have recalled Kallis) we are left having to take some risk. Either:

 

1) The risk of fudging the fifth bowler by using Duminy in that role....or

 

2) Giving up on the 7th specialist batsman.

 

The difference is the 5th bowler is highly likely to have to bowl his 10 overs. And the damage from that could be fatal. Whereas if the 7th batsman makes a duck, it's no different from Miller or de Kock making a duck. If our top order really fires his contribution could be unnecessary.

 

 

Take the risk with Philander as the seeventh batsmen....it's the lesser of the two risks.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Mar 2015, 17:17
#22
11 Mar 2015, 17:17#22

Disagree its no different to Philander or Morkel or Steyn going for 70 odd in 10 which happens from time to time.

 

Our 5th bowler is not limited to JP alone......the likes of AB and Faf can contribute.

 

The choice is ultimately between Rossouw and Abbott.......I'd much rather have Rossouw in the side and trust our 5th bowlers to do the job that going into a match with a tail comprising 5  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Mar 2015, 17:47
#23
11 Mar 2015, 17:47#23
 "Our 5th bowler is not limited to JP alone......the likes of AB and Faf can contribute."

Exactly. I agree 100%. What I do not agree with is that JP is good enough to be a front-line bowler, expected to bowl 10 overs per match. He is one of the bowlers sharing the load of the fifth bowler.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Mar 2015, 18:25
#24
11 Mar 2015, 18:25#24

JP in most instances should be able to bowl 10 overs as he is good enough to do that......but if it goes wrong as it does with any bowler, we have alternatives in AB and Faf.

 

I am not expecting JP to be our best bowler, he is the 5th best and we should expect that he will be more expensive than the rest on average......as will all the sides 5th bowler  

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
11 Mar 2015, 18:35
#25
11 Mar 2015, 18:35#25
 IIRC, Kallis rarely bowled 10.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Mar 2015, 18:50
#26
11 Mar 2015, 18:50#26
But could bowl at the death.....overs 35 and on. There's your difference. It simple really a top notch fifth bowler is better than a predictable off spinner. Bat Philander at 7.....drop de Kock. Then you have a plus in batting and a plus in bowling.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
11 Mar 2015, 19:11
#27
11 Mar 2015, 19:11#27
 Philander is out of form ATM and a debatable ODI player at best. Kallis should have been our 7.
— END OF THREAD —

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