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Quintie & Amla

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Jan 13, 2019, 11:02

And just to chuck a spanner the works, Quintie and Amla provide a match winning partnership in tough conditions.


How will the board deal with both the old and the young delivering the goods.


Haha!


Boucher was a fighter but Quintie is better in all facets and will accrue numbers that dwarf Boucher's.


Amla won't be replaced easily. A legend.

Jan 13, 2019, 15:04

Plum 

You are really looking for trouble here -

*   comparing Amla and De Kock in this test; and

*    comparing De Kock and Boucher as wicket keepers.

Remember ever since 2013 Mozart and his cronies have criticized De Kock endlessly - both as a batsman and as a keeper.   Only yesterday Mozart in his latest attack describe De Kock as "clueless".     It is from all available data clear that De Kock performed better than Amla in this test as well as the series as a whole.  He si despite the fact that he only batted in 4 of the 6 innings played against  Pakistan - he is the highest SA run scorer in the series,   In the rece3nt Mzanzi series  he was the second highest run scorer in the competition beaten by 3 runs by Van der Dussen.    He made a huge number of runs compared  toi Amla in that series as well.

As to the Boucher issue - you are in a minefield as well.   I was a great admirer of Boucher in his hay day - he was the best keeper in the world at that stage,   However, if you compare Boucher and De Kock statistically, De Kock shows up as a better batsman and even keeper as Boucher managed during his career,   We were lucky to have those two players in SA and I would think that a comparison in this case is a bit unfair.   One will have to see what De Kock produces in the next 8 to 9 years of his career,  In the meantime De Kock is becoming an extremely wealthy cricketer - especially from playing in the TPL   Good luck to him in that regard,


        

Jan 13, 2019, 16:51

De Kock a great bat against toothless, medium pace bowling....like Pakie....by far the worst bowling attack of any major country.

You could count on Bouch in a tight spot.....can't say the same for Quintie.

Jan 13, 2019, 17:27

Mozart 

Will always be the same BSter all the time.  When De kock made three centuries in a three match ODI tournament in 2013 - the Indian bowlers were the wort in the world.

If the Pakistani bowlers are so poor - why did virtually every SA batsman struggled against them.   Fact is the Pakistani bowlers are responsible for Pakistan being the top-rated ODI team in the world at present,

Statistically  De Kock is a better player than Boucher in all respects of the game.   So why the trust in Boucher ahead of De Kock?   Prejudice is a poor way to consider players.   

   

Jan 13, 2019, 19:20

Get your facts straight Tokkie.....Pakistan are the number1 rated T20 team....they are ranked 5 in ODIs and 6 in Tests. I assume you know the difference?

But lets put that stupid mistake aside....you say Pakie has the attack to be a top rated team. So rank the attacks:

1 India

2 Oz

3 Proteas

4 England

5 West Indies

6 New Zealand

7 Sri Lanka

8 Pakistan

Jan 13, 2019, 21:48

Where did you get those ratings about attacking teams from?    It is a joke - Australia's rankings higher than the Proteas when they were smashed by the Indians in the recent tests and by the Proteas in November last year,  Seems to be weird to see them up there with their test and ODI rankings both at 6 a long way behind for instance SA - tests  5 points behind and ODI ranking 9 points behind.

So let us look at the player rankings of Aussie test bowlers:-

3    Pat Cummings

11 Josh Hazelwood

13 Nathan Lyon

20  Mitchell Starc

So lets look at the rankings of the Indian test  Bowlers:-

6   Ravindra Jadeja

9   Ravi Ashwin

16  Jasprit Bumrah

22  Mohammed Shami 

However, that is not what matters here - what matters is what Steyn said about the SA bowlers and the BS you routinely comes up with.

Your rating of players is actually the one of the sick minded people pretending to know everything other experts are not aware of.     


Jan 14, 2019, 00:12

Those aren't rankings moron....just a list......put it in ranking order....show us where you put Pakistan. Hopefully though, you are now clear about ODI and T20 cricket...no need to thank me.

Jan 14, 2019, 08:10

Go to the ICC website and look at there ranking list in the case of bowling headed by Rabada.   No - you write down your own list and the fact is the list is unbelievably stupid stemming from your   normal  BS.   

Jan 14, 2019, 12:55

So lets get back to the test rankings.   The series win against Pakistan leaves us at no 2 in the test rankings (110) with India no 1 (116).

Before the end of the ICC year on 31 March there are some matches to be played and the SA team will meet and most likely beat Sri Lanka in two matches,   If we win both SA will go up to 112 points - and retain the number 2 ranking with ease,   

That means a nice bonus for the SA test players.        

Jan 14, 2019, 16:03

Lets have the ranking Tokkie.....you praised the Pakie bowlers, have the guts to put them in context. Just the ranking no more bs.

Jan 14, 2019, 17:21

You made  ranking of your own  and put it on site - I am not going to follow you in that stupidity.

Listen - the problem is your constant attacks on De Kock - I love the way he manage to force your  BS you constantly spout against him straight down your throat,:D:D:D  .     

Jan 14, 2019, 20:29

So you are too chicken to rank Pakistan.....which means you know they are at best 7, probably 8 among the bowling top 8. No need to confirm....your actions are totally transparent.

Jan 15, 2019, 04:47

Poor Mozart

In his normal idiotic way he compiled a "ranking" system entirely based on prejudiced with no proof of what actually is the case and he ahs the audacity toi invite me too join his very special League of Idiots,   Not appreciated at all,

Read carefully what I wrote above - but then there is a system to try and arrive at a ranking system - but that would not be understood by you at all and would be abused by you as is normally the case.

:D:D:D  

Jan 15, 2019, 08:09


Top 40 Test Bowlers

ID Rat. Name Nat. Career Best Rating

1 893 K. Rabada SA 902 v Australia, 12/03/2018

2 874 J.M. Anderson ENG 903 v India, 13/08/2018

3 804 P.J. Cummins AUS 836 v India, 30/12/2018

3 804 V.D. Philander SA 912 v India, 22/12/2013

5 794 R.A. Jadeja IND 899 v Australia, 20/03/2017

6 789 Mohammad Abbas PAK 838 v New Zealand, 19/11/2018

7 771 T.A. Boult NZ 825 v England, 25/05/2015

8 767 T.G. Southee NZ 799 v West Indies, 12/06/2014

9 763 R. Ashwin IND 904 v England, 12/12/2016

10 751 J.O. Holder WI 766 v India, 14/10/2018

11 743 J.R. Hazlewood AUS 863 v India, 08/03/2017

12 742 S.T. Gabriel WI 757 v Bangladesh, 14/07/2018

13 723 N.M. Lyon AUS 774 v England, 06/12/2017

14 721 N. Wagner NZ 785 v West Indies, 05/12/2017

15 717 Yasir Shah PAK 878 v England, 18/07/2016

16 711 J.J. Bumrah IND 711 v Australia, 07/01/2019

17 696 Mehidy Hasan BAN 580 v Zimbabwe, 14/11/2018

18 694 S.C.J. Broad ENG 880 v South Africa, 18/01/2016

19 675 Shakib Al Hasan BAN 705 v Australia, 30/08/2017

20 670 M.A. Starc AUS 805 v South Africa, 05/03/2018

21 666 Taijul Islam BAN 652 v West Indies, 26/11/2018

22 660 Mohammad Shami IND 703 v South Africa, 28/01/2018

23 658 K.A. Maharaj SA 695 v Zimbabwe, 30/12/2017

24 641 D.W. Steyn SA 909 v West Indies, 21/12/2014

25 632 K.A.J. Roach WI 774 v South Africa, 21/12/2014

26 625 M.D.K.P. Perera SL 689 v England, 27/11/2018

27 615 I. Sharma IND 671 v West Indies, 10/07/2011

28 600 M.M. Ali ENG 633 v West Indies, 19/08/2017

29 588 B.A. Stokes ENG 596 v West Indies, 09/09/2017

30 573 U.T. Yadav IND 613 v West Indies, 14/10/2018

31 561 R.A.S. Lakmal SL 590 v South Africa, 14/07/2018

32 560 D. Olivier SA 560 v Pakistan, 07/01/2019

33 555 B. Kumar IND 626 v South Africa, 28/01/2018

34 553 Mohammad Amir PAK 658 v England, 30/08/2010

35 539 C.R. Woakes ENG 609 v Pakistan, 14/08/2016

36 530 D. Bishoo WI 602 v Zimbabwe, 02/11/2017

37 511 Wahab Riaz PAK 585 v Sri Lanka, 10/10/2017

38 488 A.U. Rashid ENG 488 v Sri Lanka, 27/11/2018

39 457 P.M. Siddle AUS 816 v England, 05/08/2013

40 442 C.B.R.L.S. Kumara SL 442 v New Zealand, 30/12/2018

Jan 15, 2019, 16:12

Draad 

The rating of individuals should form a basis of how the attacking value of teams can potentially be assessed.    The way to arrive at such a situation is fairly easy.      Use the following basis to arrive at a comparable figures:-

Each player in the ratings 1 to 10 is to be given 400 points

Each player in the ratings 11 to 20 is to be given 300 points

Each player in the ratings 21 to 30 is to be given  200 points

Each player in the ranrings 31 to 40 is to be given  100 poimnts

Based on that formula the point allocation to each Country is as follows:-

South  Africa       800 +   600                        =    1400

England                400 + 300 +  200 +  200   =   1100

Australia               400 + 900                          =   1300

India                      800  +  300 + 400 + 100  =   1900

Pakistan                400 +  300  + 200            =    1000

New Zealand       800 + 300                          =    1100

WI                          400 + 300 +  200 +  100   =  1000

I only listed the teams having representation in the top 10 ranked  bowlers.   If th above rather questionable ratings are being used then the strength of the bowling components of the teams are as follows:-

1         India

2         SA

3         Australia

4         England – New Zealand

5         Pakistan – West Indies

Problem is that some of the rated players are not in the test teams of the various countries anymore – so we must watch out for those in future.

That is vastly different from the rubbish Mozart came up with.


Jan 20, 2019, 18:30

Actually dumbass.....if you rate England/Nz 4/5.......then Pakistan/West Indies is 6/7. Which proves the point that they have the worst attack of any top ranked nation.

Case closed.

Jan 20, 2019, 20:36

"However, if you compare Boucher and De Kock statistically, De Kock shows up as a better batsman and even keeper as Boucher managed during his career......."

1. Most catches in an innings. Boucher appears, on the list for test matches, no less than than four times, taking six catches in all four cases. The highest is seven catches in a match. QdK is not on the list at all. Boucher

2. Wicket Keepers Taking Most Catches in a Match. Boucher appears on the list twice for taking nine wickets in a match on both occasions. QdK is not on the list at all. Boucher.

3. Wicket Keepers Making Most Dismissals in an Innings. Boucher appears on the list three times for six dismissals in a match. QdK is not on the list at all. Boucher.

4. Wicket Keepers Making Most Dismissals in an Match. Boucher appears on the list three times for nine dismissal in a match. QdK features on a list at last for nine dismissals in a match, once in 2014. Boucher.

5. Keepers Taking Most Catches in a 3 test series. The first list that Qdk beats Boucher on. He features twice for 18 and 17 catches in a series. Boucher also features twice but has taken 17 catches twice. QdK beats him by virtue of taking 18 once and 17. QdK

6. Keepers Taking Most Catches in a 4 test series. Boucher on the list twice for 17 and 16 catches in a series. QdK wins this one as well with 17 and 18 catches in a 4 test series. QdK

7. Keepers Taking Most Catches in a 5 test series. Boucher is on the lisst once for 25  catches. I don't know if De Kock has ever played a 5 test series. Boucher 

8. Keepers with Most Dismissals in a 3 test series. Boucher on the list three times for 18, 18 and 16 dismissals. QdK also three times but for 18, 17 and 16 dismissals. Boucher 

9. Keepers with Most Dismissals in a 4 test series. Boucher twice for 18 and 16. QdK wins with 19 twice. QdK

10. Keepers with Most Dismissals in a 5 test series. Boucher once for 26 dismissals. QdK not on the list. Boucher 

Bouch 7 - QdK 4

The above is probably not definitive enough because there are still a lot of dimensions to be checked. I have done the same exercise for ODIs and they follow the same pattern. I just could not be bothered to go through all the effort. 

This is a condensed comparison, though.

Tests:

Boucher:

(147 matches)

Wicket Keeping
Catches:532
Stumpings:23
Most Catches in Innings:6
Most Catches in Match:9
Most Dismissals in Innings:6
Most Dismissals in Match:9

QdK
(38 matches)
Wicket Keeping
Catches:159
Stumpings:9
Most Catches in Innings:5
Most Catches in Match:8
Most Dismissals in Innings:5
Most Dismissals in Match:9

ODIs

Boucher
(295 matches)
Wicket Keeping
Catches:402
Stumpings:22
Most Catches in Innings:6
  
Most Dismissals in Innings:6

QdK
(98 matches)
Wicket Keeping
Catches:139
Stumpings:7
Most Catches in Innings:5
  
Most Dismissals in Innings:6


T20

Boucher
(25 matches)
Wicket Keeping
Catches:18
Stumpings:1
Most Catches in Innings:3
  
Most Dismissals in Innings:3

QdK
(35 matches)
Wicket Keeping
Catches:35
Stumpings:9
Most Catches in Innings:3
  
Most Dismissals in Innings:4

As you can see, Bouch spent the majority of his career playing serious (test) cricket and much less of his time playing less serious ODIs and very little of this hit and giggle T20 BS. 

QdK, on the other hand, has played much more less serious ODIs than serious test cricket. He has, in fact, played more than double the number of ODIs than tests. He has already played more hit and giggle BS than Boucher has in his entire career.

I wouldn't call it lying but I would surely like to see the evidence that proves that "statistically, De Kock shows up as a better ..........keeper as Boucher managed during his career......."

:D

Jan 20, 2019, 22:23

I'd call it lying, especially given the source. I also can't recall any error Bouch made comparable to de Kock's botch of simple run out to take us out of the WC.

 
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