The Over 30 players Mozart support playing in Australia - failures the lot

Mozart's hatred of what he called "SEUNTJIES" is notorious.   Every player under 30 is according to him a "seuntjie"  so lets see how the batsmen fared in Autsralia:

Player                             Age          Innings played           Total runs                Average Runs

Elgar                                36                   3                         31                          10,3

Erwee                              33                   3                          31                          10.3

Bavuma                           31                   3                          68                          22,3

De Bruin                          30                   1                          12                          12,0

Zondo                              32                   3                          38                          12,7

Verreynne                        24                   3                         116                          38,7

The only player he called a "seuntjie" was the one proving he was an international player - the rest was not.    

Here we go again my ‘hatred’ of seuntjies. Nope I was wildly enthusiastic about Grahame Pollock at 18 and Barry Richards at 19. Verrynne is certainly competent with good hand/eye coordination….but where are the others. 

Ock has been a serial failure in big games, like WCs. Markram who was lionized before he even scored a run has drifted into mediocrity. Where are the others over the 8 years since you first agitated for Amla to be dropped.

The over 30 players you list above were never great players. Elgar scraps hard and has a decent test average….the rest are as bad as the seuntjies.

The point I was making is simple….great players are rare and can perform deep into their thirties….youngsters may look good, but the proof is in the pudding….and youngsters with fatal flaws, like Ock with his bat/pad gap struggle against the moving ball and on uneven pitches.

The point is simple…..you don’t discard great players before their time. Learn it!

Mozart

It does not have anything to do whether player are greats.   A really great player can see when he is not producing the goods anymore and that is when he retires on their own.   

However - that is not the point.   It is dishonest to praise players when it is clear they are not productive anymore and that serious consideration should be given to their replacement.  I will refer to two players in particular. in 20111 Graeme Smith did not produce at the CWC in India.   he then went off to Ireland and on his return he started off being poor during  the whole of 2012 and 2013.   At the end of 2013 there was a serious against India in the Gulf States.  There were five matches played  In the first ODI Smith opened the betting for the Proteas and his failure attributed to losing of the match.  He then had to go back to  SA for some reason or other.    De Kock replaced him and your screaming reach crescendo heights     be as it may the Proteas won the series 4-1 and De Kock scored his first ODI century.   

There were also 3 matches played in SA and Smith and Kallis was back in the team.  The Proteas lost the first 2 ODI's with Smith being a failure and Kallis made 50 runs after facing 90 balls - totally inadequate in that format of the game.   Shortly after that match Kallis decided to retire from International cricket.   Smith wanted to play in the third ODI - h was told by the section Committee and stormed out of the hotel and went home.   It ws indeed surprising when he announced his retirement.

Kallis was always a great in trest cricket - but not in the shorter versions of the game.   Smith started off like a house on fire and fizzlled out in the end.  In his career Smith made 8 centuries as an ODI player -  De Kock made 15 - his strike rate was much higher than Smith's.   Your attacks on De Kock started in 2014 and never stopped.

The problem in SA is political interference and De Kock ended up thoroughly the hell in with SA Cricket and he was sub-standard as a result,   De Kock decided never to play for SA again - and one cannot blame him for that,   However he is making millions playing club cricket world wide and remains a very expensive player to contract.    If he was the failure you scream about he would not get contracted.

Now let me give you  the Protea batsmen are a miserable lot.   In the case of the batsman there is none of the five failures with an average above 40  and some is 31.   That is not high enough to be rated as a successful test player.    The bad part is if you look at their rating on provincial level is much lower than then a long string of youngsters.  THAT IS WHY IN GENERAL THE PUBLIC THINK THE TE AM IS SHIT POOR.

Yet de Kock failed in every WC. Even in the last WC if he produced the goods in line with his  reputation we would have at least been in the semis. Supposedly our best bat for the last four years he always chokes when the pressure is on..,because his technique is flawed.

"......,because his technique is flawed."

Really?

How so?

Go on, tell us what's flawed with his technique that makes him fail in WCps.

This will be inter esting.

Pay attention Comrade..  it’s right there in the post above:

‘ The point I was making is simple….great players are rare and can perform deep into their thirties….youngsters may look good, but the proof is in the pudding….and youngsters with fatal flaws, like Ock with his bat/pad gap struggle against the moving ball and on uneven pitches.’

Ock doesn’t move his feet to the pitch of the ball and tends to throw the bat down the line. It works when the ball isn’t moving and he isn’t nervous.  But that yawning gap is always there and with a bit of movement it’s exposed.

And it tends to get worse when he’s nervous because his feet become even more planted, like at WCs where he is a serial failure, except when we are playing the minnows.

Cricket 101….but then you never played the game.

Ock doesn’t move his feet to the pitch of the ball and tends to throw the bat down the line. It works when the ball isn’t moving and he isn’t nervous.  But that yawning gap is always there and with a bit of movement it’s exposed.

Utter hogwash. All batsmen struggle against swing whether they move their feet or not. I've seen many a technically correct batsman clean bowled between bat and pad. I'm not saying he's footwork is great, everyone knows he relies on hand/eye co-ordination.......so what....there's several who've had great cricketing careers eg Virender Sehwag (has constructed an extraordinary career with a relentless quest, and a genius, for boundary hitting. With minimal footwork but maximum intent, he has piled Test runs at a faster pace than anyone in the history of cricket.) Then there's our own Herschelle Gibbs, England's Chris Broad the list just goes on and on.

But heres' where your BS ends.......if he did leave a yawning gap then every half decent quick would exploit that flaw and there'd be "bowled" more often than caught or LBW next to his name.

 It's not. 

I've had a look at Quinton's early, middle and end of career stats across all formats and I've only struck one innings where he was clean bowled. Josh Hazelwood was the bowler but just before you wet your nappy Quinton was on 104 runs and Hazelwood took 6 wickets in that same innings. Meaning Quinton successfully negotiated Hazelwood's notorious swing on the way to making his ton.

And for a batsman who is supposedly technically flawed and leaves a yawning gap his career averages across all formats is not too shabby either. Dang those quicks must have been blind it's hard to believe they couldn't spot a yawning gap.

Test-38.80

ODI - 45.6

T20 - 32.9

Boy, the Proteas right now can do with batsmen with that kinda flaw dontcha think.

Cricket 101….but then you never played the game.

Try Cricket 100 next time, it comes BS free.

You mean like van der Dussen..

Tests 30.16

ODIs 69.31

T 20s  36.0 

Oh I forgot, Ock is a genius and Dussen is a journeyman. And Dussen’s advantage over Ock will be even more pronounced at WCs.

As for the gap, it results from Ock’s bat being thrown at the ball while his feet stay anchored. Check out how many times he has been caught behind as a consequence. 

Oh and he’s only been bowled once….are you sure?

Mozart

You said De Kock failed in every WC he played in - that ws a lie.  In the miserable 2019 WC De Kock scored the h ighest number of runs of any SA player and I would not call that a failure.   In that WC every batsman failed in every crucial match they played in and those included  Amla and Du Plessis.

I am not defending De Kock as a player - I said that anyone having to play for SA was under more political pressure than cricketing pressure and you are a fool not to realize that.  That is what drove De Kock under more pressure than anyone else.   When he refused to take the knee on the BLM issue all hell broke lose around him.   

Compared to the present failures in batting De Kock was a 100% better than the failures playing for the Proteas at present.   You have no idea what you are writing about in your decade long hate campaign agains t De Kock..        

Typical.......thought we were talking your pet hate De Ock? How did van der Dussen get into this.....I know, don't tell me it's just your slimy way of diverting from the topic.

As for the gap, it results from Ock’s bat being thrown at the ball while his feet stay anchored.

Nyaaah Nyaaah Nyaaaah I know, we all know, we've heard about an imaginary gap so many, many, many times.......there's only one problem.....we need to see the evidence.

Provide proof......if as you say he leaves a "yawning gap" then the numbers being clean bowled should heavily outweigh being caught or being bowled LBW.

Oh and he’s only been bowled once….are you sure?

Uh-oh sliming again........I clearly didn;t say that.....this is what I've said...."I've had a look at Quinton's early, middle and end of career stats across all formats and I've only struck one innings where he was clean bowled."

There isn't mention of having looked at all of his innings across all formats. And again before you go shrieking lets be clear no batsman plays 81 tests only suffering one clean bowled.

Provide the stats which point to the flaw in his technique showing that he's been clean bowled far outweighs  any other forms of dismissal.

Here you go. If a batsmen plays with his feet well away from the line you could reasonably expect caught behind, bowled through the gap and less lbw’s. That would be logical. We can’t get caught behind stats,  but here are the numbers for being bowled and lbw’s for de Kock and 5 contemporary bats,  also claimed at times, to be our best:

De Kock…bowled 24.7%….lbw 12.9%

Jacques Kallis….bowled 19.2%…lbw 16.7%

AB de Villiers…bowled  19.7%….lbw 13.3%

Hashim Amla….bowled 18.1%….lbw…17.1%

Aidan Markram….bowled 13.6%…lbw…22.0%

Graham Smith …bowled 16.1 % …..lbw….22.9%

Stunning proof that de Kock does indeed play well away from his pads. This from Howstat dismissals in test cricket. Look it up if you wish Quisling. Or perhaps it’s most economical for you to simply apologize.

Just for interest I looked at a few other greats:

Kholi bowled 7.1%.. lbw 21.7%

Tendulkar bowled 18.2%…lbw 21.3

Warner bowled 14.4%…lbw 13.2%

..    …

A definitive stat would be bowled normalized (divided by) lbw’s. This yields the following batting flaw index:

Kholi 0.46

Markram 0.62

Smith 0.70

Tendulkar 0.85

Amla 1.06

Warner 1.09

Kallis1.24

AB de Villiers 1.48

Quintin de Kock 1.91

Clearly de Kock is in a class of his own in terms of his fundamental batting flaw. Case closed.

Ah Steve Smith bowled 19.1%, lbw 17.0%. No apparent gap issues there. No top batsmen comes close to de Kock, bowled 25% of the time.It’s his flaw of separating bat and pad. He compensated with a very good eye and timing….but it only worked when there was little movement and he wasn’t under pressure.

Sure….start with the latest WC.

The weirdest illogic I have ever seen.   Saying D e Kock was a failutre in  the 2019 WC are either a fools way of looking at what happened or a liar writing BS on site.     

So the 2019 WC, the one Clever singles out as a great de Kock performance:

So what we see here is 

1 Mediocrity against the weak Bangladesh attack

2 Failure against India

3 Failure against the West Indies….which now puts us in danger of not making the knockouts

4 A score against Afghanistan where there was no pressure because the Afghan total was so low.

5 Abysmal failure against NZ…and we are out of the knockouts

6 A score against Oz where we were out and there was zero pressure.

Mediocrity, failure, failure, irrelevant,  failure, irrelevant. And that is supposed to be success. He let the team down when it counted as he always does.

Why, because as I proved  above his technique leads to being bowled far more than other top bats.

Case closed.

Mozart

You are talking Kak as per normal - I referred to the fact that the top scorer of the SA side was De Kock.   THAT FACT REMAINS.   You screaam about De Kock - the real batting failure in that WC was Amla - Compare his total runs scored with De Kock and also look at his strike rate - abysmally poor.  

By the way this thread is about the PRESENT dismal batting performances and your support of Elgar and Van der Dussen in the past.   you are too stoopid from a cricket perspective to look at the present scenario of De Kock - just as a diversion to escape from your past statements.   You sht all over Verreynne as well - while you want him in the team as against Verreynne as well,   .       

So lets get awaqy from the diversion and back to the issue dealt with originally.   I have updated the scedule after the econd innings of the DISMAL Proteas:-

Player                             Age          Innings played           Total runs                Average Runs

Elgar                                36                   4                          31                            9.0

Erwee                              33                   4                          52                          13.0

Bavuma                           31                   4                       133                          33.3

De Bruin                          30                   2                          40                          20,0

Zondo                              32                   4                          31                          7,78       

Verreynne                        24                   4                        149                         37.2

Lol Ou Dentsie hasn't the foggiest about cricket.

QDK is known for not moving his feet. It's literally his batting style and the very first thing anyone with a quarter of a cricketing brain would notice. 

And if you don't move your feet, you are predominantly vulnerable to being bowled through the gate. 

But it's fine because if you have a good eye and, on occasion, take the game away from teams. 

The problem with QDK is that he failed too many times in big games. We have been spoiled really because we would never expect the same from Boucher or Richardson, since they were keeping batters as opposed to QDK who is a batting keeper with flawless keeping skills.

QDK should never have been promoted up the order in the shorter format. Perhaps in T20 there is an argument to be made for him opening but overall he should be coming in at six and with a full license. 

But here's probably the dumbest statement yet made on this thread...

"Utter hogwash. All batsmen struggle against swing whether they move their feet or not."

Foot movement doesn't eradicate the danger of swing bowling...it simply helps to combat it. Therefore, if you don;t move your feet you are weaker against swing. How is this not obvious? By your reasoning, nobody should ever wear a seatbelt again since people have died despite being strapped in.

Dave, Amla was not at all technically deficient. He had bat speed that was on par with Lara and would move his feet very well. What you perceived as technical deficiency was simply his ability to move towards and play balls that were wider than most batters would be comfortable with. It was what made it so challenging to bowl to him...he would leave well and then suddenly punish you from nowhere off of a ball that you thought was wide enough that he would leave. Meaning that even when the bowler's radar was in, they never felt as though there were safe balls. Amla was the perfect combination of playing late with ridiculous bat speed.

Watch this innings from relatively early in his career, now armed with what i said above...and tell me again that he was technically flawed. You guys are funny.

Just FYI, Amal's "wrists" was actually Amla's eye. What do I mean? Well, wristy play is a product of eye, not wrists. Let me know if you ever figure out what that means.

Wrong.

Initially, his trigger movement was backward.

But he sorted that out. And it's actually kinda funny because what he became know for was his double movement - a small step back and then a step for ward to meet the ball. see any replays for proof.

He didnt die with his defficiency, he fixed it.

Making comparing Amla to QDK silly, since QDK hasn't ever really sorted his problem out.

Lol ou Saffex.

Here is Hussain showing you the transition.

In the first clip, Amla is way back in his crease with a more open stance and his shoulders pointing at mid-on. 

In the later clips, he makes two movements, back and then forward to meet the ball. Exactly as I said. 

Where is the bullshit? Are my eyes lying to me again?

Poor old Comrade September has taken a very deep dive after he was totally exposed….by the SCIENCE, a word these woke people love so much. And of course the whole exposition totally eluded Clever, so he has no idea he has been routed.

Saffex being schooled on multiple sports is pretty funny! 

Neither De Kock nor Amla is involved in the present disaster the Proteas have become, and that is what this thread is about.    Why the diversion in this case?         

You seem a little are delusional.

And it's not only in cricket, the poor doped head can't help himself, plants his 5'3" on a soapbox and lectures to an imaginary audience. We've heard him tell us he was a coach in England but we haven't been told the level, a club, whatever .......sounds like BS.

But here's the lead balloon, " They don't come more World Class than that"......he said of a group of players...some of them had no international exposure and one in particular.....Reeza Hendicks.....has never played Test cricket, is outside the top 100 in ODI  and has a ranking of 21 in T20 at age 34.

Some "coach" Bwhahahahahaha

Still the best laugh in 2022