Who is Raynard van Tonder and why is he one of the most promising players in SA?

I tried to copy the report on Raynard - but News 24 does nor allow copying of their articles anymore and here are the reference:-

 Who is new Proteas call-up Raynard van Tonder? 10 stats and facts | Sport (news24.com)  

I think this guy is extra-special and is bound to be the Proteas captain sooner rather than later.   His history showed that already,    

His performance as a batsman is phenomenal and the facts and figures provided showed that already,    I will give you a long list of top SA  batsmen - but none of them had  the skill set and abilities of this guy,

The sooner he is include in the starting team - the sooner SA Cricket will start to recover from the malaise  the Proteas has been in since 2019.  The other top batsman with huge potential is Verreynne - who broke all the records    set by Kallis in school cricket with the greatest of ease.   

Those two youngsters are the key to the future batting line-up of the Proteas.   SA cannot afford to lose them in  future.          

Agree about van Tonder.

Despite all the politicking going on around the CSA boardroom, I still feel that we are on the cusp of an incredible next-gen side that could represent the Proteas test team for the next 10 - 15 years... all between the ages of 19 and 25.

I don't enjoy posting Saffex styled lists of promise, but i'll give it a dab to back myself up...

I agree - watch out for Gerald Coetzee - at the age of 17 he was bowling at 146 kms and that is what some senior players cannot do,    I think he and Nortje would show what real fast bowling means.

The Proteas team collapsed horribly in 2019 as a result of stagnation - so team building is necessary and should start asap.     

I would built up a team around  De Kock, Rabada, Nortje. Mulder  and Markram being the key players and those five can last for another 6 to 7 years,   The three obvious players to be added  are Van Tonder Verreinne and Coetzee,   Add to that two batsmen   that leaves three spaces open for bowlers (2) and batsmen/all rounder (1).        

mike

pace only get you so far.

He'll need skill as well.

Look as Sean Tait. Bowled like tarzan, built like jane.

Coetzee was by far the best bowler when he was playing under 19 for SA and Nortje was notes for one thing - take out top batsmen like Smith in IPL - while even though Rabada took most wickets in the IPL - his wickets were lower down in the  batting order - Nortje took more top wickets.   

"Coetzee was by far the best bowler when he was playing under 19 for SA"

... doesn't mean much if you're comparing hjim to crap.

Im not saying he isnt going to be good... but im just saying that pace isnt everything.

Sure Chippo 

Pace with swing is a deadly combination - Coetzee has both,   

Hope you folks are correct as the oldies make way we need new "Talented and committed " players before they make a permanent move overseas.

Unfortunately the political climate and the Rand does nothing to convince these talented young players to want to stay and represent their country.

Sign of the times I guess.

Lucky enough the Kolpak Judgement allowing England Clubs to refuse to release  SA players for national duty will fall by the wayside when the UK leave the EU.   

Lucky enough the Kolpak Judgement allowing England Clubs to refuse to release  SA players for national duty will fall by the wayside when the UK leave the EU.   

Well many I think will follow Strauss and Kevin P to the UK or OZ and even NZ for financial reasons and a future to test cricket.

Who can blame the players.

Agreed raw pace isn't everything......have a look at Glen McGrath as an example, arguably one of the best.

I wish they'd use Vernon Philander as a bowling coach, a master of swing, I'd let him work with up and coming youngsters. I t's a waste to see his smarts not being put to good use.

We were spoilt having Shaun and Vernon coming along at the same time, I can't think of another team with two seam bowlers of high quality playing in the same team.......it's no wonder we got to be the number 1 side in test cricket.

"We were spoi lt having Shaun and Vernon coming along at the same time"??

They didn't come along at the same time?

They never played together at all?

Correct...my bad, what da hell am I talking about. There, I've just uppercutted myself once again, probably won't be the last time either. Combo was Donald and Pollock followed by the next generation of Steyn, Philander and Morne. Old age mate, it's a nasty pest Hahahaha

Denny

Not to worry - age is a  disease we all have to face,   I am 78 and sometimes I get mixed up when dealing with players and people.  

I am off to Still Bay on Thursday afternoon  and will probably have chats with  Rob Louw and Lood de Jager while there.   It will be interesting - these people knows a lot  more about rugby and test level rugby at that than anyone else I know.     

Nice part of the world, haven't been there myself but I've seen a few photos. I won't be travelling anywhere while covid is on the prowl again, this after a lengthy period of no infections. I've even given the gym away these past 3 days, it's just not worth taking the chance.

Going to have to have record some of the cricket can't not want to see young van Tonder for the first time.

Enjoy your stay and safe travels.

"Geez Mike 78 same age as my mother "

Are you telling me she's been lying all along? I thought she was 40?

Yoh... she's still as fit as a tiger though!

Philander is not a "master of swing".

Seam is where his mastery was. 

In fact, Hansie swung it more. So did Steyn and so does Kagiso.

Taking nothing away from Vernon but get your terminology right.

While Steyn and Philander were great bowlers, I'd not have them as coaches. They practiced and played alongside Morkel for years, yet never managed to sort his length out. Both were good at what they did but that doesn't make them able to assess another's action or bowling and adjust it accordingly. 

For the record, Morkel was warned off of trying to bowl too short...by almost every coach and teammate he had. The result was that he always bowled about 1m to full. He was just as quick as Mitch Johnson, and taller, but never found that length that truly troubled batsman while having every tool to achieve just that.

At 145km/h a 6'7 bowler should be looking to let his stock ball to go past at pretty much bellybutton height. No batter is good enough to safely leave on length in that situation and when the ball is coming down from that height. One in six should be a touch fuller and another a touch shorter. 

Morkel also had a naturally high and vertical arm and would get small seam deviations. Over distance and at that slightly shorter length, it could have made him one of the most dangerous bowlers SA ever produced. 

Instead, Morkel ended up going around the wicket all too often and trying to get wickets with fuller off-cutters. Negating almost all his strengths to buy a wicket...which he often never got.

That doesn't sound to me like a guy that had future SA bowling coaches around him but rather like someone that was never shown how to reach the full potential that his natural ability offered him.

I've always thought of Morne as our own Joel Garner and you're right, except for Otis Gibson the coach who came towards the end of his career he never realised his full potential as a bowler. Gibson got him to bowl short and nasty with good result.

Nope, I'm hoping commonsense will prevail with van Tonder starting or perhaps it's Bavuma who's been struck down with Covid so that they have no choice. Who friggin knows mate...who the hell knows????

Indeed, and he(Morkel) was often expensive because the length he was expected to bowl didn't leave much room for error. A short guy bowling full is much harder to punish than a tall guy like Morkel. 

I always go back to it but Mitch Johnson's two golden years should be the focus of every pace bowler learning his trade. 

There were two series in particular when he was simply unplayable. Against us and against England, he pretty much won both those series on his own. To date, I've never seen a bowler dominate entire batting line ups like that.

And all he did was cause the ball to pass about 20cm or so above the stumps on a threatening line. If it seamed or swung a bit that was just a bonus. 

If you go back and watch his Ashes 2013 wickets, notice how people are jumping around all over, getting cleaned bowled, caught down leg and playing all around straight balls. The reason - Those other five balls in the over that threatened the stumps, the edge and the body all at the same time. None of it requiring hooping swing. 

Perhaps Saffex is right and Morkel was simply not accurate enough. 

But the Aussies can - a bit of sandpaper assistance helps a lot.     

isn't it sad that we're hoping that Bavuma has a mild case of Corona so that we can get to see v Tonder bat?

My fellow darkies are honestly killing the game.

So many township kids are no longer watching the proteas because we'ree not creating new idols for them to watch... but rather the offspring of previously disadvamtaged people.

I for one look forward to the end of quotas. I fear that wee may need to get banned again before anything happens.

It's tough to compete with football. Money, fame and reach that cricket or rugby won't ever compete with. 

Different for the WI since American games have drawn many of their sports-interested youth. 

Agreed Dave, Bavuma is an underachiever, he's been given every opportunity to kick on from a single century credit. I wouldn't drop him, he's a steady ship he just needs to consistently up his mileage. But you know, they also just can't hang around forever expecting opportunity when there's others knocking on the door.

Chippo 

Nobody is wishing anyone anything bad - but the fact is that all players were rested and  unfortunately two were found to be positive and sent home for isolation and treatment,  

After the test there was a full investigation and  hereafter replacements nominated who had to be tested before they could go into the bio-bubble.   

SAC does no want to make known who the 2 players who tested positive are - but after the payers entered the bubble News 24 had an article they had a list of 17 players - with Bavuma and Hendriks not in the list.    About an hour later I thought to  make the revised squad available on site - but when I went back  to the article the two names that missed out oi he original article in the squad announce by SAC was back,

I am very suspicious about what happened and think that the two who were found positive in the testing are in fact the two players I mentioned above.   However, I may be wrong and will apologize  of I am.

Please note that the virus problem can be traced back to a game between the Lions and Dolphins a week or so ago.   One of the p layers in that game tested positive but the result was received late and the match was completed,   Bavuma, Hendriks and Van der Dussen plays for the Lions.  Bearing in mind the batting replacement nominated it is likely that the  player which could have  been tested positive must essentially be either Bavuma and  Van der Dussen,   The newspaper incident mentioned above makes Bavuma could be the infected player/