Is Marco van Staden...

the new Willem Alberts? Word is that when he tackles it's lights out hence the nick, ESKOM

We need some power ball carriers and some hard hitters, there's one too many lightweights amongst our loosies. I hope he's the answer.

A power carrier is a must. Eben is great, Du Toit was good too. As was Mal and Beast. We need that loosie who can carry. Where are all of those Schalk critics now? Or Alberts critics? These are lessons that should have been learned in Meyer's final year. If Van Staden can make the step up we could be in business. I think we have more usable pieces now than before. An identity is beginning to emerge, albeit slowly. 

An identity is beginning to emerge, albeit slowly.

Agreed. There was also a hint of shape and although no-one is getting carried away things are looking a lot better than last year.

That first half was highly structured and coordinated. Silly errors, particularly from Faf messed up potential tries. Especially that wonky pass that hit the calf of Marx. Marx and Kolisi were forming a screen, and we had Willie out wide with Mpimpi. Could have been a first half try. The back three should be retained and the centres too. I want to see them face New Zealand. I have questions about Whitely and Kolisi in the forwards and the centre pairing. Though both centres had moments where they summed up situations very quickly. Mpimpi a well. They just look so much more intelligent than the garbage produced by Mvovo, Damian and Kriel et al. We won't be toppling New Zealand this year, but if we can carry on like this we can be #2. Considering how bad we have been, that is an acceptable outcome. 

• Boks: Another new loosie combo in Mendoza?
• Rassie: Misfiring Pollard will bounce back
• 5 talking points: Springboks v Argentina

Lloyd Burnard

Durban - One of the great stories to emerge from Saturday's Rugby Championship clash between the Springboks and Argentina in Durban was the Test debut of Marco van Staden. 

The 22-year-old, along with Damian Willemse, earned his first Bok cap off the bench in South Africa's 34-21 win. 

His introduction was tough, and one of Van Staden's first duties was to try and gather a horror pass from Willemse that resulted in a Pumas try that got them right back into the game. 

It was Van Staden, though, who made the final turnover of the game to secure possession for his side and a valuable bonus-point win in their tournament opener. 

It's been some year for the Krugersdorp-born loose forward. 

Just a little over a year ago, he was playing Varsity Cup rugby with Tuks and won the 2017 edition of the tournament. 

Having attended Hoerskool Bekker, a little-known school in the Gauteng town of Magaliesberg, Van Staden didn't come close to playing Craven Week and SA Schools. 

It was, instead, his platform in the Varsity Cup that got him recognised. 

The SuperSport Challenge followed, and this year he had a breakthrough season of Super Rugby with John Mitchell's Bulls. 

Erasmus rates this youngster incredibly highly and were it not for injury in the final Super Rugby match before the international break, Van Staden would have started in the No 6 jersey in the first Test against England in June. 

Nicknamed 'Eskom' by his team-mates because he "turns the lights out" after a big hit, Van Staden is unassuming in stature.

He is short and stocky and doesn't look the type of player who would be very mobile. But speak to anyone who has watched him play up north this year, and they will tell you that this man is capable of some big things on the field. 

Van Staden was put up for media interviews following his debut, and it soon became clear that he is a man who prefers his performances to do the talking. 

Soft-spoken, Van Staden explained the disappointment of picking up that knee injury just before the England Tests.

"It was disappointing at the time," he said.

"I still believe that everything happens for a reason and that the right time will come for everything. I just had to work harder to get back into the group. It was motivation for me."

Van Staden could have been forgiven for being nervous on the biggest stage, and those nerves would have been amplified after Matias Moroni pounced on the loose ball that had come after the Willemse pass to Van Staden. 

"It wasn’t a great feeling going up for a ball and then looking back and seeing the try, but you can’t let those moments stop you from playing the game. You have to work for the next moment and forget about it," Van Staden said.

Van Staden is on the plane to Argentina for Saturday's return fixture in Salta, and he will almost certainly be given a second Test cap.

"It’s always been my dream to wear the green and gold jersey. There were tough times with injuries and not getting chosen for teams, but I just had to keep on believing," he said.

"Just keep believing and keep working hard and don’t let anyone tell you that something is not possible.

"It’s been a dream year. I started in the Varsity Cup and I never thought I would even be close to this green and gold jersey. It still feels like a dream and reality will kick in later."

Faf can be error-strewn but suits what Rassie is doing most. He is a specialist 9, not a wing, and it shows. I believe he'll settle well. Pollard is a powerful gain line presence. He is assertive without getting flustered. He also isn't passive. Neither halfback is. What a change from Reinach and Lambie! We need more ball to 10. Right now the amount of ball going to 10 is significantly less than under Meyer. More balance needed. It's hard to judge the centres on attack as they were mainly bypassed. Rassie is using Willie the same way Meyer did: being the connector between 10 and the outside backs. We are heavily reliant on certain individuals though. Willie more than anybody. As we saw in the World Cup, an out of form Willie, or no Willie at all, drastically changes what we can do, especially if we have no passing centres with vision. I was pleased with both wing. As you say, the loose forwards were a little patchy at times. Louw was everywhere, Kolisi was invisible. Whitely was productive without standing out. 

Golly, we're actually having a fair dinkum debate without the normal barking! What a pleasant surprise

Denny

I does not take much for an openside loosie to be better than Louw and that leaves Van Staden as a strong contender, There are other potential opensiders too and one must wait for Erasmus next moves in the relevant regard.

I have the necessary trust in Erasmus to make the next move,   He may give Louw a second chance - but that would likely be the last chance he will get - since his productivity is totally sub-standard and shocking.

I do not regard Van Staden as another Willem Alberts - at least Van Staden is a loosie, which Alberts was not.   Alberts was far too pace-deficient and in his whole career he never once made a breakdown turnover (he was too clumsy for that) - while in his first test Van Staden made such a turnover in the 17 minutes he actually played.   Already one step better than Alberts ever was.

Another example is that in 63 minutes played by Louw he  made 7 tackles missing 2 -  ie a tackle every 9 minutes played - while making one turnover.  In 17 minutes played Van Staden made 4 tackles missing none -  ie a tackle made every 4,25 minutes - and in that short period he made a turnover,   Taking the above into account he was twice as effective compared to Louw. .      

Alberts made a turnover in Brisbane 2013. Your argument is invalid.

Comparing players, yet not comparing the situation. You need details Clever Mike. When I reference something I provide a lot of details. I'll be providing a lot more the next few days. In the meantime you can consult the bones for a new lie. 

Taking the above into account he was twice as effective compared to Louw.

No. About par, I would say. Van Staden pretty much mimicked Louw's role, securing and assisting rucks and tackling around the fringes of the breakdowns.

Van Staden had 12 involvements in 20 minutes (I didn't count the fingers he got to the bad Willemse pass as it is a negative not of his doing), while Louw's busiest 20 minutes (last quarter first half) saw 19 involvements.

Louw made 5 of his tackles in the first 24 minutes. Van Staden made 4 tackles/assists in 20 minutes, 3 of them within a frenetic 4 minute period of Argie attack. That leaves him with 1 tackle for the remaining 16 minutes he was on the field.

This is why you can't take a single data point and draw a conclusion of involvement from it without looking at the match situation to put those numbers in context. Both Louw and Van Staden were solid, but unspectacular.

Louw Second Half

44:04 supports counter ruck
48:07 carries in maul
48:27 secures ruck
48:32 clears A2 off ruck to free ball (Malherbe assists)
50:28 short carry
50:53 wins breakdown penalty in combination with Marx (referee: #2 and #6)
52:09 secures messy ball from lineout
53:58 fumbles pass, no knock
54:05 secures ruck
59:28 tackle A9
59:30 wins breakdown penalty

Van Staden Second Half

60:04 ruck assist
60:17 tackle
63:19 tackle A10
63:49 tackle assist
69:53 ruck assist
71:49 ruck assist
72:14 short break from scrum
73:58 ruck assist
76:02 concedes penalty, no arms tackle
76:52 tackle assist
80:10 ruck support
80:29 wins breakdown penalty

I like Van Staden, but he did nothing special on Saturday.

To be fair a huge leap from Varsity Cup to Springboks...this fella seems to have promise...probably a bit nervous.

Incidentally Lloyd Burnard (Sport 24) they are playing in Mendoza not Salta as you report...it's only about 1250 klms apart.

No problem with Van Staden, he looks an honest player. Early days, let's see how he grows.

Draad

It is blatantly dishonest for some members to create their own stats and try and obliterate proven stats.   Louw had the worst stats of the loosies and even the media headline said the loosies were problematic - none more so than Louw.

There are blatant statements made about the rucks and no real evidence given.   Although it was clear that Louw had below-par productivity the only solution to counter that was to add lists of rucks where he was involved - not on his own though and what his accrual role was in such rucks was never in evidence,      

I believe sincerely that in the short time Van Staden was on the field of play he clearly showed what a real worklike loosie could attain and Louw fell far short of that,.    

It is blatantly dishonest for some members to create their own stats and try and obliterate proven stats.

No one is creating their own stats. You just don't get it. You can't look past the numbers. There is nothing dishonest. Every event can be verified. Every event is described as no more and no less than it was.

There are blatant statements made about the rucks and no real evidence given.

The evidence is in the footage, which you are too lazy to watch. You just sit there staring at your little stat sheet. The point of providing time stamped incidents is to make them easy to review. Get off your ass and do your homework instead of sitting there on your little throne criticizing and insulting everyone who is actually making an effort to add value.

Draad

These are just manipulations as per normal with one of our serial BSters giving false desciptions about what actually happened,    It is all fake and no substance,

It happened all the time that the fake writer produce false info on player performance and when caught out suddenly said he missed some occurrences,   The first one he write left out three tackles made and added two missed tackles and the falsifier kept it up ever since.   To believe his BS is really not acceptable.

Now you're just flat out trolling, Mike.

I thought the board was making a nice move towards proper discussions and analysis.

You though seem to be the only one here unwilling to participate. Instead, you're doing your best ram a stick in the spokes and drag everything back to the level of kindergarten insults.

Draad

I checked again the BS about Louw's performances in the first half and 90% was pure BS and the rest near to BS.   For instance a strong 15 meter carry was about 6  meters and strong was BS.   ESPN said in 6 carries Louw made 12 meters - how the hell did he gain 15 meters in that one carry?

In all supporting rucks there were at least 4 other SA players involved - with Louw being rather peripheral as a participant.   When the Argies overthrow in a line out the ball landed near him - he did not secure anything - he merely passed the ball back - total over-inflated BS,

That means he was over-inflating Louw's role  totally and as I said it was in the main total BS     

Draad

I checked again the BS about Louw's performances in the first half and 90% was pure BS and the rest near to BS.   For instance a strong 15 meter carry was about 6  meters and strong was BS.   ESPN said in 6 carries Louw made 12 meters - how the hell did he gain 15 meters in that one carry?

In all supporting rucks there were at least 4 other SA players involved - with Louw being rather peripheral as a participant.   When the Argies overthrow in a line out the ball landed near him - he did not secure anything - he merely passed the ball back - total over-inflated BS,

That means he was over-inflating Louw's role  totally and as I said it was in the main total BS     

I don't care what ESPN say Clever Mike. Stats collection is highly subjective and too prone to errors. I've caught it out numerous times in the past. I recall Fourie's carry yardage against France in 2009 being omitted entirely! Not the first time there were problems. It won't be the last. If anything contradicts footage. It's wrong. Ende. 

BS Alert

In total, before his movement was checked and a ruck formed, he gained around 14-15m while carrying the ball.

Next!

BS alert and that is a fact - the lie is continued.   Louw got the ball in side the 10 meter line and the tackle started 3 meters from the halfway line by the first tackler so where is the strong carry coming from- he landed 1,5 meters out.   So the lie is continued.   Even liberally the gaining was about 7,5 meters.   The fact is the BSter writes rubbish and we are then told  it is gospel.     

Mike, you've now become little more than a troll on this forum.

Looks closer to 20 metres ...... oupa Jan would've been proud

Asking for trouble Blob

Regarding ESPN's number - it depends on what the MR (meters run) stats constitute. Is it only the meters gained by a player moving upright and unassisted? Do they stop counting when the player hits traffic and starts slogging ahead, maybe with support from behind? We don't know all these things, just like we don't know what exactly constitutes a tackle or a missed tackle for the statistician. That's why we look at the footage to get a picture of what went on, not the numbers.

Blobbok

Foeitog after being caught out it is clear that the BSter does not know his arse from his elbow.   It is clear that the distance is from the place where the recipient receive the ball and where he is brought down to ground.   In this case Louw made two rolls on the ground after being tackled gaining about 1,5 meters before the ruck ensued.   Those rolls are now called strong carries by the liar.

Problem that kind of rolls on the ground is dangerous.  Two or more such rolls often result in the team being penalized.   Louw was lucky not to be penalized for that in this case. 

In this case Louw made two rolls

He rolled once, regaining his feet.

gaining about 1,5 meters before the ruck ensued

About 5m.

Two lies in a row there Mike.

Louw was lucky not to be penalized for that in this case.

He wasn't lucky, because he got back up on his feet without being held in the tackle. 100% legal, not even close to a penalty.

In other words, the incident above still constitutes a +-15m carry, exactly as I described it originally.

So far you've fired nothing but blanks, Mike, and you're already rolling out the lies to keep up. But keep it coming.

BS Alert - just look at the clip - never on his feet.   One ahs to pity people - they must suffer from delusion or should see a shrink.   Habitual lying is a psychological problem.

BS Alert - just look at the clip - never on his feet.   One ahs to pity people - they must suffer from delusion or should see a shrink.   Habitual lying is a psychological problem.

Is Mike and the Tradionalist the same identity? 

Just asking.