So here we go again

R2 between Trump and Putin to end the war. Negotiations have only just begun and already as in R1 old Donnie is bursting with enthusiasm. All I'm saying is that we've seen this play before.

It's obvious as it's been all along that Putin has not said anything positive or shown any enthusiasm himself to end the war and until he does I stand convinced that he's playing Donnie once again.

Is this going to turn out as another world stage humiliation by Putin of Trump?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that Trump is instrumental in ending another senseless war.

Trump is putting pressure on the Russian energy market...Vlad will be forced into a deal sooner than later...I'm really surprized it has taken so long.

I am also surprised it took this long, but I genuinely don't see Putin treating the Don like he did the last time

I think Putin realises now that Trump is not fucking around, and that he has been more than patient with wanting Putin to come to the negotiation table.

I also think that Trump has taken the correct approach with Putin regarding this war, but I do wish it had been done a bit sooner.

Putin still needs to save face in front of the whole world, which Trump is well aware of, and Trump gave Putin that opportunity many times, even though Putin threw it back into Trumps face, so kudus to Trump for never overreacting and provoking Putin, but Trump is now putting on the squeeze and I seriously doubt that he will ever backtrack from here on until there is a confirmed result to this war.

Draad I'm not convinced that he's interested in making peace, nothing has changed, he's playing everything close to his chest and I also think he believes he's making good progress in winning the war.

The threat of worsening sanctions doesn't seem to bother him, he's being driven by his ego.

I think Trump will end up strong arming Putin into some sort of negotiation at some point, whether Putin likes it or not.

It's either that, in the long run, or it ends up ultimately with war against the west.

I don't believe that Putin has that much more ground to stand on regarding continuing this war, so if he doesn't give in anytime soon, it could end up being disastrous for Russia as a whole.

He doesn't have to sanction them if he take away their market share of energy. Europe just recently made a deal to buy American energy...and India is being pressured due to their dealings with Russia...these things are al connected...the world will be a different place in a short time if he continue as he started.

Denny

The following quote flowed directly from the fact that you believe lies the Obama Administration and Demorats spread about the Rusian Hoax in the media.

R2 between Trump and Putin to end the war. Negotiations have only just begun and already as in R1 old Donnie is bursting with enthusiasm. All I'm saying is that we've seen this play before.

It's obvious as it's been all along that Putin has not said anything positive or shown any enthusiasm himself to end the war and until he does I stand convinced that he's playing Donnie once again.

There is an old English proverb - "Once Bitten Twice Shy". You were bitten by the media lies fed to them by the FBI. So new you are not shy at all - you keep on looking at media lies and you still falls for it, Soon the saying should be fifty times shy.

The latest I've heard is that India is not budging and that China is sticking.

That aside I think Putin is a warmonger and is obsessed with winning the war.

Just wonder if there's behind the scenes moves afoot to topple him. Surely the Oligarchs must be sick of the war. Money speaks in many ways.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if I read the morning press stating Putin's been assassinated.

...probably the easiest way out of this war.

Oh Hell no, Mike has arrived. And here I was just starting to enjoy a healthy debate.

CYA!

Yeah, I called for Putin's assassination about two years ago.... it can't come soon enough

Something has to give, no war goes forever, the thought must be blowing in the wind, money speaks and lets say that somewhere someone is just gatvol of it all. The Oligarchs didn't see it coming so they must be pretty pissed that their wealth is draining away at the rate of knots.

Another funny thread as it is packed with liberal non sense. Liberals waddle in contradictions and they do not care as they are used to other people mopping the floor. They have often presented Putin as a brilliant strategist, a 3D chess player or something and then, now, it is learned that Putin so far has thought that Trump had been messing around. Putin had not assessed the situation through the moves that the US were able to do and so. The assassination of Putin would change little to the problem as Putin is the expression of powerful forces in Russia. Putin had been the most efficiency to satisfy these forces.

Liberals have played so many sides they are cornered now, they have no where left to go. See the narrative, the US has been screwed by the rest of the world that has taken advantage by forcing the US in a scheme of overconsumption, the trade balance deficit stuff... And yet, one part of the US strategy is to try to coerce people by threatening them with cutting access to the US market. This threat may work for parts of the world that want access to the US market but at the moment, a large share of the world want to disconnect from trade with the liberal world as it sucks up resources that the rest of the world would prefer to consume themselves.

There is such no proper outcome for the case of India, if they cave in, it is bad, if they do not cave in, it is bad. The deal with Russia is denominated in the Indian currency, Russia is a close neighbour and therefore, it is a better solution that the solution cooked by the Trump administration during its first term, that is cutting Nigeria as an energy provider for India to push Iraq as the energy provider. And to double the effect, India is striken with tariffs even though they are somewhat desired to act as a substitute for cheap labour provided by China.

That aside I think Putin is a warmonger and is obsessed with winning the war.

No. Russia is not a warmonger. The liberal world is. The liberal world has been running a scheme of extorting the weak, farming the poor since 1776. The US have been involved in wars for the vast majority of their existence, very few years in peace actually.

The world prosperity is shifting. Central and south Asia are properly ready to improve their life standards, they less and less depend on the liberal world for anything. In fact, they are looking at ways to end their trade relationship with the liberal world. Now, the rest of the world, that is the world minus the liberal world and this part of Asia will have it better if they shift their trade relationship to the Asia part, their life conditions would rise.

The liberal world has nothing to trade with that part of the world, except the illusion the success of liberal world is due to the way they govern themselves. Somewhat, the promise made to part of the world was to yield resources against being taught how to govern themselves.

With what is going in the US, the illusion has been blown out. Trump has ended all of this terminally, it is over. The situation is so bad in the US that the democrats may have chosen to conceal the Epstein files when they were in power because revealing them would have compromized the whole narrative.

No, this asian part of the world is not looking for war. They want peace to enjoy their increasing prosperity. The liberal world wants war on the other hand as peace would not serve their prosperity. The more peace lasts, the more opulence leaves the liberal world.

Denny

Trump is set to meet Putin withn the nex week - but no indications where the eeing would take place, Likely to be in Istanbul or Budaapest, In meetng foreign leaders outside of the USA the particulars are secret since the leftists and people of the prvious regime are already promoting his asaassination.

No. Russia is not a warmonger.

ouTrad,

Shame on you.

I often wonder if Mike and Trad are related or are one and the same writing under different nicks.

The stumbling block, set up by Putin of course will be terms prior to the negotiations. Next he'll want Crimea and all of the land occupied by Russian troops. Peace could be hanging by a thread once more as he pulls the pin if he doesn't get what he wants. The bits and pieces I've noticed about the little Prick is that he's not one for compromises.

Ukrainians feel they have a far more realistic view of Russia’s true intentions. They are convinced Putin will never be satisfied with limited territorial gains because he is not actually fighting for land in Ukraine. Instead, he is waging a war against the very existence of a separate Ukrainian state and nation. This chilling objective undermines the entire concept of a compromise peace. Put simply, there can be no meaningful middle ground between Russian genocide and Ukrainian national survival.

Vladimir Putin does not want peace. He wants to subjugate Ukraine.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/vladimir-putin-does-not-want-peace-he-wants-to-subjugate-ukraine/

Now we've the spectre of a batshit sexual predator & convicted felon having a meeting with a murderous war criminal who's guilty of an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation to discuss that country's future.

Just as I thought, the warmonger is laughing at Trump.

Putin defies Trump ultimatum with fresh strikes on Ukraine©EPA

Russian President Vladimir Putin has called Donald Trump 's bluff as missiles rained down on Ukraine in overnight strikes even as the U.S.'s deadline day for a ceasefire arrives. The Kremlin has shown no sign of halting its bombardments despite the U.S. President threatening to impose economic sanctions if Moscow fails to show progress towards ending the war in Ukraine by today, August 8.

And you’re enjoying the fact that a peace settlement can't be reached through negotiation, regardless of the boys dying….simply because it isn’t another win for Trump. Disgusting.

Denny

I was gainst this wa from the word go and the Civil War in Ukraine started becausse of crookdness in the U S Government and the result is they installed a puppet Govenrment in Ukraine totally controlld from Washington.

The Ukraine War became the most corrupt war in the history of Europe and the world, The list of benefocoairesin the USA is long and Zelenskyy and his crowd stole as well, So the corupt wants the war to contionue. The 2014 coup removed all the civil rightss of Ukrainians and what we hacve at present in Kiev is a puppet dictatorship held in power by USA bribes.

Nobody bar Trump wanted the war ended and cone an only wander why, He is now putting the squeesh of Putin - who kniw that what Trump said will be executed and Russia will suffer the consequences.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/how-much-will-india-fuel-bill-rise-if-its-stops-russian-oil-imports-us-tariffs-russia-oil-latest-news-9045528

India will conform or else...slow poison...

And you’re enjoying the fact that a peace settlement can't be reached through negotiation, regardless of the boys dying….simply because it isn’t another win for Trump. Disgusting.

Simple dumb unmitigated bollocks ... shame on you

Sure You would say that Blob because you are in the same position as Hysteria. No peace solution and thousands more boys are going to die. Trump may not prove to be right on the Ukraine, but he has consistently been on the side of peace.

This isn’t a war which is going to change the world unless somebody makes a terrible mistake. But it is a war that’s destroying Ukraine’s youth and is having quite effect on Russia as well. It serves no useful purpose just a killing machine.

The dumb unmitigated bollocks comes from the arm chair critics who have no clue what the chess game is all about…..just anti Trumpers who enjoy the failure regardless of consequences. You lot are the shameful bunch.

The meeting between Trump and Putin will take place in Anchorage, Alaska on 13 August .

One would have expected the meeting would have been held in a neutral venue and the fact that Putin was prepared to meet Trump in a USA venue is significant, In reality it contains initiatives on both sides on what is to be achieved through further negotiations - in essense I think agreement on most issues are resolved and the remainder could be dealt wih at the meeting.

Putin is not fool - he knows he cannot win a trade war with the USA That was not the situation when the USA had an Autopen President, but with Trump such an approach would have ghastly consequences, .

The US president also said “there’ll be some swapping of territories to the betterment of both” Ukraine and Russia and that the issue would be discussed soon but he gave no further details.

Typical bollocks Trump bullshit ... ffs ... WHAT fkg territory will Russia be swapping ?

Putin plays Trump & a meeting without Zelensky's a charade, merely extending any further sanctions while he continues to destroy Ukraine infrastructures, their children & vulnerable citizens.

An illegal invasion of a sovereign nation cannot be rewarded by giving the invader 20% of that country..

What about the multitude of war crimes, kidnapped kids & reparations for the beleaguered nation ?

All of those atrocities won’t be made any easier by further atrocities. I accept Russia’s culpability in the Ukraine and rewarding that in any way is repugnant. But that has to be weighed against the further suffering these poor Ukranian people will have to accept to even try to regain what has been taken. And that won’t succeed unless we walk a path very close to direct Russian confrontation.

You've 7 days to name one concession Putin will offer ...

BB

Neither you nor me - and with you I include the media representatives - know what is benig negotiated in respect of Ukraine. So to comment on the above is really like commenting on fairy tales loved by the media.

I've always known that you've no idea :)

Quite clever from Putin, proposing something he knows Ukraine won't accept...gets to stall potential sanctions and then blame Ukraine for not wanting peace.

So apparently what Putin proposed is the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from the rest of Luhansk and Donetsk in return for Russia halting offensive actions in Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts while a permanent ceasefire is negotiated.

If Ukraine was to withdraw for Donetsk it would mean the abandonment of their main defensive line in Donetsk the so called fortress belt that consists of 4 cities and several towns that Ukraine has since 2014 poured in considerable time and resources building up the defences in the area and it's already proven very costly for the Russians to attack. Presently the Russian's are trying to envelope the belt but at its present rate of advance that would take several years to complete.

A withdrawal would mean Ukraine having to establishing a new front line in an area poorly suited to defence, consisting of mostly open fields with no defensive infrastructure in place. If the proposed peace negotiations failed then Ukraine would have given up one of their strongest defensive positions and put themselves in a very vulnerable position.

Meanwhile it's completely unclear what if any territory Russia is supposed to be considering exchanging at this point.

BB

I have a very definite idea what I aoppose and think is worng on issuees, Giving up territory by Ukrine is a given. For the past decade they never governed in portions of Eastern Ukraine and Ukraine had no solders inm the C rimea, never ever had soldiers in the Crimea,

The poblem started when after the new Regime refused to Govern Constitutionally, The terrtory of Ukraine was defined in the Constitution and since then all human rights in Ukraine has been destroyed, For example the Ukraine Orthodox Churh - to which 80% of the Ukrainians belong - was banned. The first thing an Indepmendet Ukraine needs it is a Cnstittion gaueanteeing human rights, Unless that happens any peace agreement is not gong to work out.

In the Crimea 85% of the population have Russian as home language and 10% are Tartars, The Crimea had their own Partliemant to govern the area. When the Kiev Government aborted the Constitution - the special condiions of Govening the Crimea was aborted as well. It left a Govrnment void and the Crimea Parliament called a referendum on the future of the area. 95,4% voted for an applicaion being made to Russia to become part of the Russian Federation - the rest voted for the Crimea to become an independent state (3%) and to stay part of Ukraine (2,5%)

Besides that in the Minsk agreement in 2015 - the Crimea was regarded by all signatories not being part .of Ukraine. That agreement was comfirmed by the US Security Council - but never implemented because the Obama Regime and Trump did not pay much attention to Ukrine since there were other more urgent issues Trump puts ahead of the Civil War in Eastern Ukraine, He also had to fight the lies connected as to the Russian Hoax. In 2019 Trump banned all USAID and Govenment grants to all countries in the world because of the level of corruption involved,. The warmongers screamrd murder - but Trump persisted with hsi policy that the States and Treasury Departments must compile strict protocols as to funding in future and that inspections must be done that grant funding is used for te purpose it was donated, Since Ukraine was a hotbed of corruption Trump ordered that no more cash transfers to Ukraine be made and that weapons be puchased by the US Government and delivered to Ukraine. Whether that was a sound appoach iro aid to Ukraine is in the light of what happened after the Russian Invasion was doubtful because the Autopen President followed the same example when war boke out in Eastern Ukraine - after 6 months of delivery of arms to Ukraine at a cost of circa $36 billion it was found that only 30% of the delivered USA arms reached the army. Before the necessary screaming started about that 30% figure - it was confirmed by the USDF representtive at a Senate Hearing In September 2022 and it wa followed by sending 200 sodiers to Kiev to guard hte Embassy announced.that a U S Army Colonel was appointed to safeguard the US Embassy in Kiev. Another lie - they were used to help the Colonel supervise receipt by the Ukraine Government and ensure the deliveries are made to the Ukraine army.

Since the areas Ukraine is likey lo lose are the areas occupied by Russian speaking rebels armed by the Russians Government. Those areas are part of the Donetsk, Luhanks. Kherson and Zaporzhzhia Oblasts in Eatern Ukraine - so some Territories in the above Oblasts wil remain part of Russia - while the Russians will withdraw from areas conquered since 2022.

The above is only m guess about teritory issues - same as you know nothing about what is being discussed. The important thing is probably more complex and that is the compilation of a new Constitution for Ukraine that will replace the present Uncontitutional setup/ The discarded Ukraine Constitution was based largely on the USA Constitutional principles - so once a new Constitution has been approved by the majority of Ukraine voters real chamges would lead to new elections in Ukraine. That is why the Zelenskyy Government will try desperately to ensure a peaceful settlment is not to be implemented by the voters of Ukraine. . .

Ja, infringing on religious and other freedoms are always a tell tale that something is off.

Simpletons... Ukraine only banned the Churches linked to Russia (about 10-20%).

Meanwhile, Putin and the Church leader in Russia told their soldiers they would go to heaven if they die in Putin's war. Some really dumb people - being used as cannon fodder under the banner of God's work.

From the biggest simpleton of all. So it's OK if Israel only bomb the hospitals linked to Hamas or where the terrorist are hiding?

You can't ban a whole church because some of the members are colluding with the enemy. Ukraine has issues aside from the stupid war.

"Simpletons... Ukraine only banned the Churches linked to Russia (about 10-20%)."

Meanwhile, Putin and the Church leader in Russia told their soldiers they would go to heaven if they die in Putin's war. Some really dumb people - being used as cannon fodder under the banner of God's work.

Listen dimness - was the Ukraine Orhtodox Church on the banning list - yes or no. Despite the above BS the church was specifically banned, Reason was enough to influence idiots like you because you do not know your arse from our elbow on most issues,

There are three major branches of the Christin religion in the world - the main being the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church component and the Protestants, In essense the RC Chirch remain the main component of Western Eoripean coutries - even after the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 472. In the eastern part of Europe and in the Balkans the Easten Roman Empire later until 1452 when their capital city Constantinople was. conquered by the Nuslim Ottomans coming from part of he Balkans and were allies of the Turkish Muslima. The fact is that their were by the 1200/s the Eastern European based Greek Orthodox Church with headquarters iro Russia being in Kiev until the total destruction of that city by the Golden Horde under Timberlane, The idea was to move he Orthodox Church to Moscow. The Orthodox Chirch took over total control religious in Russia and in a subsequent Wars under Ivan the Great - Grand Prince of Moscow, Ivan was known as 'the gatherer of Russian lands" and married the daughter of te last Emporer of the Eastern Roman Empire adding the name Greek Orthodox Chutch and resulted in the Church dominance in relgious in part of central and Southern Europe.

There are Orthodox Churches in Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Russia. There are some religious issues where the churches co-operate on religious issues = but not on political and in this case War Level. However, Zelenskyy and his governing clique saw that Church as a threat to their control and as expected he banned them.

That ban caused a world-wide uproa and now suddenly the tale was spread that i as another mythical gtoup was banned, Wake up B - you are typical of the stooges the media thrive on.

. . , , .

Now back to reality The discussion in Washigton is whether Zelenskyy should be at the meeting between Trimp and Putin in Alaska, My own guess is that te end result woud be NO, He dsgraced himself by trying to tell in front of the media whathe must do and that caused him to be kicked out of the WH.

Peace negotiations require a strog leadeship in the U SA and the fact is that agrements reached will be dealt with between the NATO countries and the USA - the clown from Ukraine will only destroy progress in negotiations - he does not want the war to end and he will lose power in he subsequent election. .

Simpletons... Ukraine only banned the Churches linked to Russia (about 10-20%).

Why are you trying to ague with Mike in good faith?

So it's OK if Israel only bomb the hospitals linked to Hamas or where the terrorist are hiding?

Under international humanitarian law a hospital can be bombed if a hospital is being used to house active combatants or if its being used as a base to launch attacks. I'm not saying Israel was justified in their actions in Gaza but I'm just pointing out that attacking hospitals is permissible under certain circumstances.

You can't ban a whole church because some of the members are colluding with the enemy. Ukraine has issues aside from the stupid war.

Why not?. Why should a church get an exemption over any other type of organisation from being banned?

Anyway... it's now being reported that Russia never made any offer of a territory swap or a withdrawal from Kherson and Zaporizhia, apparently Witkoff mistook Putin demands that Ukraine withdraw from both Oblasts as Putin saying Russia would withdraw from those Oblasts. He apparently also mistook Putin's offer of an energy and long range missile ceasefire as a general ceasefire along the whole of the frontlines. I can't say I'm too shocked that Trump's golfing buddy with no experience in foreign policy has turned out to be utterly incompetent.