A good analysis of the Venezuelan situation

This from the Editorial Board of the WSJ, on the money in almost all the points they make.

President Trump’s capture of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro early Saturday is an act of hemispheric hygiene against a dictator who spread mayhem far and wide. Whether he admits it or not, Mr. Trump is now in the business of regime change that he’ll have to make a success.

The stunning nighttime raid is the culmination of a showdown that was building for months as Mr. Trump sent a naval flotilla to the Caribbean. Mr. Maduro resisted U.S. offers to leave peacefully, and Mr. Trump followed through on his threat and ousted the despot. The U.S. President had to act or lose credibility with the world after choosing the face-off. Pulling it off without American casualties is remarkable.

Mr. Trump said Mr. Maduro and his wife were headed to New York, where they will face trial for narco-trafficking. But Mr. Maduro’s damage goes well beyond the drug trade. His socialist and authoritarian policies burdened the region with millions of refugees. He flooded the U.S. with migrants in an effort to sow political discord.

The dictator was also part of the axis of U.S. adversaries that includes Russia, China, Cuba and Iran. All were helping to keep Mr. Maduro in power. His capture is a demonstration of Mr. Trump’s declaration to keep America’s enemies from spreading chaos in the Western Hemisphere. It’s the “Trump corollary” to the Monroe Doctrine.

All of this makes the military action justified, despite cries from the left that it is illegal under international law. Mr. Maduro stole last year’s presidential election after he lost in a rout. He barred popular opposition leader Maria Corina Machado from the ballot, and the candidate who took her place won and then went into exile to avoid arrest. The critics want to praise Ms. Machado’s courage while doing nothing to help the Venezuelan people.

As for gripes that Mr. Trump is acting without Congressional approval, the Constitution gives broad leeway to executive action on national security. George H.W. Bush deposed dictator Manuel Noriega in Panama in 1989 without a vote in Congress. Mr. Maduro is a greater threat than Noriega, and Venezuela is at least as important to U.S. security. Democrats are criticizing Mr. Trump so they can pounce if the operation runs into trouble.

All of which raises the stakes for what comes next. Secretary of State Marco Rubio stressed Saturday that this was at core a “law enforcement” operation to arrest the Maduros, which sounds like a dodge to avoid saying this is about regime change or a U.S. occupation. Mr. Trump boasted Saturday that “we are going to run the country now,” but how he will do that without troops on the ground to enforce order isn’t clear.

Mr. Trump is right that simply snatching Mr. Maduro and leaving the country to fend for itself could produce Maduro 2.0. But we won’t be the only ones to say the President owes George W. Bush an apology for his ex post facto criticism of U.S. intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mr. Trump is pursuing the Bush freedom agenda, at least in the Western Hemisphere. Are we all neocons now?

On the near-term future, Mr. Trump was cagey. Perhaps that’s prudent since there may be members of the Maduro military, backed by Cuba, who want to run a terrorist insurgency against U.S. forces or advisers in the country. Mr. Rubio may be trying to persuade a large part of the military to back a new government not run by Maduro henchmen.

But it is odd that Mr. Trump was so dismissive of Ms. Machado in his Saturday press conference. He said she lacks the “respect” or support of the people of Venezuela, but who else has more? She risked her life to challenge Mr. Maduro, organized and rallied the opposition to win an election, and bravely stayed in Venezuela where she risked arrest or worse.

Mr. Trump also talked about “the oil” far too much, which sends a message that the U.S. purpose is largely mercenary. Venezuela will benefit if U.S. oil companies modernize the country’s decrepit oil production facilities. But the U.S. doesn’t need Venezuelan oil.

Sooner rather than later, Venezuela needs another election. The greatest benefit of a democratic, pro-American Venezuela is what it means for freedom and stability in the region. The left has had a 20-year heyday in the Americas that has done great harm to its people and allowed deep inroads by China. A reversal is under way in Argentina, Chile, Ecuador and Bolivia, and a right turn in Venezuela would continue the hopeful trend.

Mr. Trump’s willingness to depose Mr. Maduro is also another step in the revival of U.S. deterrence from its collapse under Barack Obama and Joe Biden. The overall message to our adversaries is salutary. If Mr. Trump can succeed in reviving Venezuelan democracy, the Castro coterie in Cuba may want to start looking for some other place to live.

Hemispheric hygiene ... a stunning nighttime raid

Bollocks, all it offers is a suckup far-right propaganda spiel.

now for a bit o balance .......

Editorial

The illegal abduction of Venezuela’s president, and threat to ‘run’ his country, is a dangerous act. Its repercussions will be felt far beyond the region

Sun 4 Jan 2026 18.11 GMT

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Amid the immense confusion surrounding the US strikes on Venezuela, the seizure of the president, Nicolás Maduro, and Donald Trump’s announcement that the US will “run” the country and “take back the oil”, one thing is clear – they set a truly chilling precedent. The US has a grim history of interference, invasion and occupation in the region, but the early hours of Saturday saw its first major military attack on South American land. “American dominance in the western hemisphere will never be questioned again,” Mr Trump declared. The decision to unilaterally attack another country and abduct its leader – days after he publicly sought an off-ramp – has still wider repercussions. It should alarm us all.

Venezuelans have endured a repressive, kleptocratic and incompetent regime under Mr Maduro, widely believed to have stolen the last election. They now face profound uncertainty at best. Mr Trump has suggested that Mr Maduro’s deputy, Delcy Rodríguez, would follow US instructions, and dismissed the rightwing opposition leader and Nobel prize-winner María Corina Machado as a plausible replacement. But Ms Rodríguez, now interim president, has so far struck a defiant tone – and other parts of the decapitated regime are more hardline.

A man who won power promising to abandon foreign wars now says he is “not afraid of boots on the ground”. Rebranding the Department of Defense as the Department of War was more than posturing. He does not see the world’s superpower as policeman; he is turning it into a rogue state. He believes the US’s might allows it to do as it wishes with minimal cost: witness the strikes on Nigeria, on Iran’s nuclear facilities and elsewhere. He promises that Venezuelan oil means this latest episode “won’t cost us a penny”.

George W Bush invaded Iraq on a lie. But this illegal attack came without UN resolutions of any kind or congressional approval; Democrats were not even informed and say they were actively misled in briefings. Mr Trump doesn’t seek to bend international norms, but to destroy them. Put aside the message this sends to Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping and others, and ask where the US itself is heading. While the raid reportedly killed 40 Venezuelans, including civilians, no US personnel died. Mr Trump’s growing sense of invincibility will surely embolden further adventurism. He has not ruled out military action over Greenland and told Fox News: “Something is going to have to be done with Mexico.”

No one buys the pretext that this is about drugs. Venezuela is only a minor conduit for cocaine; Mr Trump recently pardoned the former Honduran president Juan Orlando Hernández for drugs and weapons crimes. And Mr Trump himself made it clear that he is driven by the lure of oil as well as machismo, the ideology of some in his administration, and the desire for glory as domestic popularity wanes.

The global reaction, especially in Europe, has – with honourable exceptions – been shockingly muted. That’s not due to Mr Maduro’s sins, but fear of Mr Trump’s wrath. The strong reaction from the UN’s secretary general, António Guterres, was welcome, but this episode underscores the institution’s growing irrelevance. Mr Trump’s anti-interventionist domestic base could yet press him to turn attention back home – but soaring healthcare premiums, economic unhappiness and the Epstein files increase his appetite for distraction.

We are not yet 12 months in to his four-year term. Sir Keir Starmer and others may regret it if they stay silent now, given what – and who – could be next.

George W Bush invaded Iraq on a lie

It was a stupid move, but a lie? He lied to the world knowing he was going to be found out weeks later? Knowing his reputation would forever be compromised? Can you see how utterly stupid that is.

Whoever the moron is who wrote this article never read the other Guardian article on this subject I posted elsewhere, namely that Maduro is not the legitimate President of Venezuela,

Trump's already planning next week's Epstein deflection.

Moaart

To deal wiith people who believe the ideology spread by the Guardian is indicative of supreme ididocy.

While both countries were allied with Nicolás Maduro, the U.S. attack could give them justification to use force in other spheres, analysts said.

Listen to this article · 7:36 min Learn more

President Xi Jinping of China and President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia at the Kremlin last May. China and Russia both have close ties to Nicolás Maduro.Credit...Pool photo by Evgenia Novozhenina

By Anton Troianovski

Reporting from Washington

Jan. 5, 2026, 7:59 p.m. ET

After attacking Venezuela and seizing its head of state, President Trump said on Saturday that the country had been “hosting foreign adversaries” and asserted that “American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be questioned again.”

His remarks appeared to be a broadside against Russia and China, which both built close ties to Nicolás Maduro, the captured Venezuelan leader. But in fact, there was also plenty in Mr. Trump’s words and deeds that Beijing and Moscow could get behind.

Mr. Trump’s stunning assault on Venezuela has ushered in new uncertainty around the globe, with allies and adversaries alike scrambling to reckon with a superpower ready to use force in the service of a transactional, might-makes-right foreign policy.

For the two countries long seen as America’s chief adversaries, Russia and China, that uncertainty is tinged with opportunity, foreign policy analysts said.

“If we have the right to be aggressive in our own backyard,” said Fiona Hill, a Russia expert at the Brookings Institution, “why can’t they?”

Ms. Hill was the senior director for European and Russian affairs at the White House during part of Mr. Trump’s first term. In the spring of 2019, she told a congressional hearing later that year, Russia quietly signaled it was ready cut loose its ally Mr. Maduro in exchange for the United States’ stepping back from Ukraine.

“You want us out of your backyard,” the informal Russian message went, in Ms. Hill’s telling. “We, you know, we have our own version of this. You’re in our backyard in Ukraine.”

Ms. Hill said she went to Moscow at the time to reject the idea. Russia never confirmed Ms. Hill’s account, but its RIA state news agency reported in April 2019 that her meetings in Moscow “revealed serious, deep contradictions and significant differences” regarding Venezuela.

Now, Russia could well have more luck with such a geopolitical swap, given that Mr. Trump’s rhetoric “shows that everything can be traded,” she said in an interview on Monday.

“It gives them the opportunity to try it again,” she said.

So far, China and Russia have condemned the U.S. attack on Venezuela, but they have not threatened to defend their ally.

At an emergency meeting of the United Nations Security Council on Monday, Russia and China demanded the release of Mr. Maduro and his wife, and called for a halt to any further military action by the United States.

China’s foreign minister, Wang Yi, said on Sunday that no country could “act as the world’s police,” without mentioning the United States, according to Reuters. Russia’s U.N. ambassador, Vasily Nebenzya, said “the American global gendarme is attempting to rear its head once again.”

But some in Moscow went so far as to offer hints of praise for Mr. Trump’s attack.

Dmitri A. Medvedev, the former Russian president, told the country’s Tass news agency that Mr. Trump “and his team have been rigidly defending his country’s national interests, both political (with Latin America being the backyard of the United States) and economic (give us your oil and other natural resources).”

The restraint was striking given the investment in Mr. Maduro’s rule by both China and Russia. Russia sent nuclear-capable bombers to Venezuela as a show of force in 2018 and ratified a “strategic partnership” with Venezuela just last October, looking to the country as a platform for projecting its influence across Latin America. China upgraded its ties to an “all-weather” friendship when Mr. Maduro visited in 2023 and loaned more than $100 billion to the country over the last quarter-century, largely in a bid for access to Venezuelan oil.

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But in the last year, the calculus for both Moscow and Beijing in what they stand to gain and lose in taking on the United States has been changing quickly. Both countries are aware that the consequences of antagonizing Mr. Trump can be severe, while the advantages of flattering him appear significant.

“Both Russia and China want to prioritize manipulating Trump to achieve more important interests for themselves,” said Tong Zhao, a specialist on strategic security issues at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington.

For President Xi Jinping of China, the priorities appear to include a further relaxation of American export controls and gaining more freedom of action in the South China Sea and beyond. After facing a potentially devastating trade war with the United States early last year, China secured a one-year truce with Mr. Trump in October and gained access to some advanced American computer chips in December. The Chinese leader is now expected to host Mr. Trump in Beijing in April.

Mr. Maduro’s fall comes with silver linings for Beijing, said Ryan Hass, a Brookings Institution scholar who was the China director on the National Security Council in the Obama administration. Having more American military assets devoted to Latin America rather than Asia is beneficial; so is the increase in Venezuelan oil production that Mr. Trump has promised, given that China is the world’s largest importer of fossil fuels.

And then there’s the legitimizing effect for any future actions that violate international law, including against Taiwan.

America under Mr. Trump “has allowed itself to be seen as indistinguishable from China and Russian in its willingness to break rules in the service of its own narrow interests,” Mr. Hass said. “So it removes a degree of pressure on China in that regard.”

For his part, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has been silent in the face of Mr. Trump’s seizure of Mr. Maduro, whom he hosted at the Kremlin just last May. The silence is especially striking because of the Russian leader’s anger in the wake of other Western interventions, such as NATO’s strikes in Libya in 2011.

But for Mr. Putin, the goal in staying in Mr. Trump’s good graces is clear: to convince the United States to deliver a Russian victory in Ukraine.

“The Russians probably think that as unhappy as they are with what happened,” said Hanna Notte, an expert on Russian foreign policy, “it is an acceptable price to pay if they come out on top in Ukraine.”

Mr. Putin achieved an end to three years of diplomatic isolation by the United States with his summit with Mr. Trump in Alaska in August. His concrete gains from humoring Mr. Trump have so far been more limited than Mr. Xi’s, with the White House still appearing unwilling to force Ukraine to capitulate to all of the Kremlin’s demands.

Ms. Notte, an analyst at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies in Monterey, Calif., pointed out that Mr. Putin has sought to avoid antagonizing Mr. Trump even though the United States has become more involved in parts of the former Soviet Union, like the South Caucasus and Central Asia, that the Kremlin considers part of its post-Soviet sphere of influence. And Russian reticence to take on Mr. Trump over Venezuela might also stem from the simple fact that there was little Moscow could have done to stop him.

Even as Mr. Putin stayed out of the spotlight, Mr. Medvedev, one of Russia’s most publicly hawkish officials, gave voice to the Kremlin’s pragmatism.

“Let’s put it bluntly,” he told the Tass news agency, referring to the United States, “now they have no grounds, even formally, to reproach our country.”

Farnaz Fassihi and Neil MacFarquhar contributed reporting.

Anton Troianovski writes about American foreign policy and national security for The Times from Washington. He was previously a foreign correspondent based in Moscow and Berlin.

See more on: U.S. Politics, Donald Trump

More on the U.S. Operation in Venezuela

On January 3, the U.S. military seized Venezuela’s president, Nicolás Maduro, and his wife in a strike on Caracas, the culmination of a campaign to oust Maduro from power.

1. The View From Venezuelans’ Cellphones: Videos, filmed on cellphones by people mainly in Caracas and La Guaira, showed the exact moments in which the U.S. air and ground incursion played out in real time.
2. Venezuelans in Colombia Rejoice: Even if the road to returning home remained uncertain after the removal of Nicolás Maduro, many Venezuelans in exile wept from both hope and pain, with a hope for change rising among some immigrants.
3. What Latin America Thinks: President Trump has launched a new era of U.S. intervention in Latin America. Some regional leaders are celebrating, while many others are deeply concerned.
4. Worries About Political Stability: Maduro was unpopular. But his abrupt removal has created deep uncertainty for Venezuelans, alarming even those who opposed him. People began lining up at supermarkets throughout the country as they anxiously waited for word on what would happen next.
5. Can the U.S. Legally ‘Run’ Venezuela?: The operation revives disputes over the legality of the 1989 Panama intervention, enhanced by Trump’s vow to take over the country and also by Maduro’s formal status as Venezuela’s president. Secretary of State Marco Rubio appeared to pivot away from Trump’s assertion that the United States would “run” Venezuela.

hemispheric high

If Anton thinks Russia and China are constrained by nice behaviour in foreign affairs…..Biden is the perfect example of doing nothing untoward. And yet the Ukraine war started on his watch.

The American actions against Venezuela and Iran, both needed, are far more likely to constrain them than encourage them. Just the precision of both raids and the failure of the equipment China and Russia provided has to be daunting.

Right now the military world is being given example after example of American precision and Soviet mediocrity. The bad actors aren’t totally asleep.

Lol, TDS crowd salty because a commie drug lord dictator was apprehended ...the ANC stand with you!

Cope and seethe girls.

Haha Xavi!

As I said on the day this broke, anyone who thinks this is about anything other than oil is pretty stupid.

All this talk of what a bad man Maduro was and how the USA is doing everyone a favour by removing him is just spin. There are many bad people running countries around the world, not just Maduro. The difference is Maduro's country has the world's biggest oil reserves.

Well if it the issue of oil then it is a real problem - not for the US A - but for the people of Vnezuela. From being h e wealthies country in South America venezuela became he poorest counryin that continent. under Communist rule. The oil infrastructure collapsed andoil production is now 10% of hat it used to be.

Starvation forced near to 9 million people fled to other countries in S outh A merica to the USA (700 000 before Biden's open border policy opened the ay for crimnals to enter the U SA - especially from Venezuela snd C olombia . The only way to help the people of Venezuela would be to get the oil industry to re-ignite production and for farming to become productive again. That under your highly admired hero Maduro was not possible.

I suppose the over 8 million people who fled from Venezzuela did that because they were happy with the conditons of life in that country. Anybody reading your BS must suffer either from idiocy or from TDS.

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It was a stupid move, but a lie? He lied to the world knowing he was going to be found out weeks later? Knowing his reputation would forever be compromised? Can you see how utterly stupid that is.

You have a point here but only to certain extent and you're compressing the time frame to suit your argument, a WMD program was never going to be disproven in a matter of weeks, the actually search dragged on for around 18 months.

Now it's quite possibly true that the Bush administration did genuinely believe Iraq had a WMD program and they were misled by poor intelligence but given the belligerent nature of the Bush administration it's also possible if not probable that they believed the intelligence not because it was compelling and sound but because they wanted the war, so it suited their agenda to believe in it.

It's also possible they weren't entirely convinced themselves but took a calculated risk that even if WMD was not found in Iraq later the public won't care, as the bad guy Saddam had been toppled, freedom had been brought to Iraq by the good guys the USA. The American public don't seem to mind military action as long as their isn't a quagmire afterwards.

But nowadays no one could apply the same reasoning argument about Trump. He lies all the time and he doesn't care about reputational damage, because his base will back him no matter how nonsensical his lies are.

Firstly the pressure campaign against Venezuela was about Fentanyl, then it was Venezuela stole America's oil, then it was cocaine (despite Trump having less than a month ago pardoned the ex-President of Honduras, who was convicted in an America court of being a key member of a scheme that imported 400 tonnes of cocaine into the US).

Whoever the moron is who wrote this article never read the other Guardian article on this subject I posted elsewhere, namely that Maduro is not the legitimate President of Venezuela,

Not a moron, just a realist. Yes Maduro wasn't the legitimate President of Venezuela but guess what, on the same grounds Putin isn't the legitimate President of Russia, there hasn't been a free or fair election in Russia in decades if ever. But we still refer to Putin as the President of Russia because he is the defacto leader of Russia. Same applied to Maduro before his kidnapping. Same applied to Saddam back in the day.

If Anton thinks Russia and China are constrained by nice behaviour in foreign affairs…..Biden is the perfect example of doing nothing untoward. And yet the Ukraine war started on his watch.

The American actions against Venezuela and Iran, both needed, are far more likely to constrain them than encourage them.

I distinctly recall you being highly critical of Biden for being needlessly provocative towards China when he publicly stated the US would defend Taiwan if China attacked it and that it was stupid of him to give up the US policy of strategic ambiguity. If I can recall I believe I asked on what grounds strategic ambiguity was better than a clear policy towards the defence of Taiwan I don't recall you answering.

It's true that Russia and China are not constrained by international law and nice behaviour but it does affect how the rest of the world views conflicts. Other countries can now say, there is no moral difference between the US and Russia in their actions, their simply flexing their great power muscles, its the accepted norm now. Might is right. Trump's actions in Venezuela are mana from heaven to America's enemies, various authoritarian regimes around the world can say look we told you so, all this crap the America has said about freedom, about upholding law and order is a lie, they are simply a bully acting in their own selfish interests, when they don't like another country they can kidnap it's leader, when they think they are entitled to a countries natural resources they will attempt to pressure countries to hand them over or seize them outright.

Right now the military world is being given example after example of American precision and Soviet mediocrity. The bad actors aren’t totally asleep.

I'd imagine the Chinese are somewhat concerned about the performance of some of the systems they have given to Venezuela but their is a lot of if's and buts. Venezuela is not China, it's a improvised third world country, who knows what the overall capability of the Venezuela armed forces is, and the quality of the training they received. Who knows how capable the weapon systems China provided to Venezuela actually are, as export versions of weapon systems are quite often inferior to the same types of weapon systems that are kept for use at home. Nor is it likely a potential war between China - Taiwan/USA likely going be decided by the kidnapping of the Chinese President.

As for Russia, lol the Trump administration is emboldening them, not constraining them and has been for sometime, all this action in Venezuela does is allow the Russian's to say is what they are doing in Ukraine is no different to what the US just did.

Lol, TDS crowd salty because a commie drug lord dictator was apprehend...sies! Don't worry, the ANC stand with you!

Right on queue. Textbook case of a cult member.

Haha Xavi!

I find it quite interesting that our resident conspiracy theorist hasn't much to say on all the potential conspiracies going around at the moment regrading both the Epstein files and the actions in Venezuela.

I mean some of the information from the Epstein files suggest a conspiracy by both democratic and republican administrations, you think some people would show some more interest in it. Or are these conspiracies theories too hip and not fringe enough?

Epstein nonsense, horrifically evil as it is, is being used as a distraction...there is nothing tangible there...the nothingburger will be brought to light just before the mid terms...if there was anything major against Trump or any senior MAGA republicans, the Biden Administration would have used it, regardless of the fallout...it is that simple...whoever thinks different are only clinging onto the hope because they don't have anything else...hopium indeed.

Funny. Liberals usually struggle with chronology. If anything, Venezuela is a distraction from the Epstein files. Not the opposite.

Guys, kindly help me understand something...

Why is the internet full of Venezuelans rejoicing around the world?

I can't quite put my finger on it?

Here's just one of hundreds of videos...

Haha the lefties hate this, I dunno why. I'd always thought the left opposed dictatorship.

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https://x.com/i/status/2008551931627925828

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Guys, kindly help me understand something...

Why is the internet full of Venezuelans rejoicing around the world?

I can't quite put my finger on it?

Let me help you out, because they hated Maduro and their glad he's gone. There's also a possibility that many who fled Venezuela may have a chance to return.

That was easy.

Perhaps if you try listening to what people who have issues with this operation are saying, rather than what Trump's side is claiming we are saying you might find these issues a lot less complicated.

Haha the lefties hate this, I dunno why. I'd always thought the left opposed dictatorship.

Other than a fringe of far leftists who will support any regime not matter how bad as long as its sticking it to the evil US you will find the overwhelming majority did not support Maduro.

Of course team Trump know this and have to disingenuously strawman anyone who has expressed criticism of Trump's raid as support for a dictatorship even if it's from some elements of MAGA who were led to believe Trump was not going to get America involved in foreign entanglements.

But back to you video of Venezuelans celebrating Maduro's removal.

Well did you remember the videos of Iraqi's when Saddam's statue was toppled by US forces, all the celebrating. Well how did that turn out?

And is their any videos for Venezuelans celebrating inside Venezuelan...don't think you will find much because guess what, the Chauvist regime is still in control of Venezuela with reports that regime has launched a security crackdown.

Also those video's of celebrating Venezuelan's were in the direct aftermath of the operation, I wonder what they are thinking now that Trump appears to be side lining the opposition parties of Venezuela and is willing to allow Maduro's VP to run the show.

Who knows maybe this event will work out in then Venezuelans people favour in the long run, maybe it won't. American's track record with this sort of thing is extremely dubious.

Who knows maybe this event will work out in then Venezuelans people favour in the long run, maybe it won't. American's track record with this sort of thing is extremely dubious.

Germany Japan Kuwait S Korea vs Vietnam Iraq Iran….I’d say we are in positive territory.

It is very funny, this liberal is very funny. He always tries to weasel out in such a pathetic way.

Maduro and his government are of course illegitimate by liberalism tenets since no dictatorship nor dictator are legitimate by liberal tenets.

As to Maduro being the ring leader of the drugs cartel organisation named el cartel del sol, there is nothing like such an organisation. It does not exist. Cartel del sol is a catchy word used to refer to the general situation in Venezuela. This is so bad by the way that Maduro's indictment has to be re-qualified in way looser terms because any defence attorney would have torn through the indictment of Maduro as the ring leader of cartel del sol.

The US institution of justice is now charging Maduro with being an enabler, to have acted in a similar way as the US police with what they call in their slang: the greenlight, to follow the greenlight etc Which is a very different category from being a ring leader.

Germany Japan Kuwait S Korea vs Vietnam Iraq Iran….I’d say we are in positive territory.

This list even includes Iran. Liberals are so empty.

How many days would you last...

Lot’s of stuff is going to come out in the Maduro trial….very smart to actually put this man on trial so the evidence is presented in a court of law,

Free Maduro the Woke set cry….clueless

Germany Japan Kuwait S Korea vs Vietnam Iraq Iran….I’d say we are in positive territory.

LOL I think you are forgetting quite a few in the negative column.

Good to see you laughing today as the Venezuelan oil is set to flow….I expect to add Venezuela in the plus column soon….stiff upper lip and all that.

Of course, Venezuela will be added to the list... Wealth is going to leak out of Venezuela quite fast...

Bit late for that, they have already lost 75% of their GDP.

Huh, no. This fall in their GDP in fact preserves the wealth of Venezuela.

GDP numbers do not allow to distinguish between impoverishment and enrichment.

Kolmanskop has a very high GDP per capital at some point in time. Now Kolmanskop is a poor place.

Usually, places with a high impoverishment rate have a high GDP.

Star,

Why don't you tell us what your solution fir Venezuela would have been?

I'm not asking what you wouldn't do. I'm asking what you would do...

Why don't you tell us what your solution fir Venezuela would have been?

You're question is based on an assumption that a solution had been definitively proven to be required. It hasn't.

Yes Maduro was an illegitimate ruler of Venezuela, his regime as it was under his predecessor was a brutal regime that violently repressed the population and run the economy into the ground.

But loads of other countries could be categorised as the same, Iran, Myanmar, North Korea, Belarus etc etc. Do we need solutions for them as well, if not why not?

Now in the case of Venezuela, the US could also ask the question does Venezuela pose a security threat to the US and I think most impartial analysis would suggest not. It doesn't produce much drugs itself, it is a transit hub for cocaine but most of that is routed to Europe not the US, other countries play a far more significant role in the illegal drugs entering the US.

So, you don't think a solution was/is necessary?

...or are you saying that you don't know enough to make a decision?

Stav

There is one thing i agree with you - there are rogue states and dictaotorship worldwide - the list you mentioned contained just a few. You can add vortually every African counry to that list,

The problem is that some stage Venezuela has been affecting the USA badly.- they are stuck wih 700 000 refugees from Venezuela and it is a massive cost to the tqaxpayers - aside from that it is a fact that Maduro released all gangsters and prisoners and wih the Open Border Policy of the Autopen they are causing criminal havoc in the USA, When the border was closed by Trump they started using bats fo dru gsmuggling aimed at the USA primarily and also to Europe.

Maduro was making money from his rogue activiies and saved hem in Swiss Bank Accounts doinhg it in US dollars, What Maduro did affected the U SA directly and that is why he was arresed and taken to the USA, At least he would get a real trial and no torture chambers used by the Regime in Venezuela.

Biden was a poor and weak President and corrupt as well - but what was worse he was mentally deficient and it is not clear who ran the country since Biden never signed docments and the Autopen handler was the real President, It has had disastrous conseuence for he USA, It weakened the US army and destroyed the USA ability to defend their allies

.

It is with the above in mind the idea to arrest Maduro and let him face charges in a Legitimate court of law will proe n pubic what he eally was up to.

There will always be rogue couries in the world - some like Russia, China and Pakistan are nuclear-armed and dangerous. The world would be a better and safer place without them. But weakness by NATO add to pressure on democracy and allow rogues to get away with i without punishment is and will always be wrong .

Weak NATO leadersip is also wrong and no answer to problems they face. Unfrtunately the Governments in Europe are weak coalitions that cannot help recovery of EU economies and their defense abilities.

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Starvie...I trust that by now you have completed your research and am able to provide an answer, or at least some confirmation that you don't know the answer.

Assuming that a solution was required, yeah I wouldn't know the answer.

There is no perfect choice. I'd lean towards keeping the status quo, so sanctions in place, diplomatic support for the opposition, applying diplomatic isolation and pressure on the Maduro administration, perhaps offer them incentives to reform.

It's far from a pleasant choice, it keeps the Maduro regime in place where they are to violently repress the population and a combination of their economic mismanagement and the sanctions will obviously negatively the quality of life of the Venezuela population which coupled with the repression and crime will motivate many Venezuelan's to flee the country.

Trump has taken action in Venezuela, whether that turns out to be a "solution" remains to be seen. There is the potential for it to be a positive development for Venezuela but that's by no mean's certain at this point in time. Who knows how this will playout in the long run. There is also clear downsides in terms of international law and the message it sends out to the rest of the world.

But the premise of your question assumes a solution was required. It's no doubt Venezuela under the Chauvist regime was a basket case country, economically crippled, rife with crime and violent political repression, but as I listed out their is numerous other countries with very similar characteristics, do we need a solution for them all? Who decides what the solution is and on what authority?

"There is no perfect choice. I'd lean towards keeping the status quo, so sanctions in place, diplomatic support for the opposition, applying diplomatic isolation and pressure on the Maduro administration, perhaps offer them incentives to reform."

Ah, yes. The wonderful sanctions that don't actually affect the guy in charge, nor his cronies. Just the regular people, who are already starving, violated and hopeless.

I don't know much about Venezuela, so these questions might be pretty ignorant. Wasn't their oil being sold to China, Russia, India and Iran despite sanctions?

It's so very much about perspective. Sitting in your safe, warm and coddled environment in Ireland, sanctions are really just words and paper but they don't do much other than appease your own guilt. Do you think that if you were in Venezuela, you'd be happy with another ten or twenty years of sanctions when all it would do is further empower your dictator and weaken your populace?

It's odd that one would even see sanctions as a solution when they've worked to de-dictatorise(I made my own word) countries less than the amount I can count on one hand. And especially in this case when Venezuela were happily selling their oil to unscrupulous buyers that couldn't give two shits about the state of the people in Venezuela. That situation could continue indefinitely and the only ones that would suffer would be normal Venezuelans.

I agree with you that it's not an easy decision and not being privy to the facts makes deciding impossible. But shouldn't that also temper your criticism?

Trump has made a move. Denise decided to draw and totally false parallel between China/Taiwan and Venezuela/USA, Blob posts articles so biased that one has to switch your brain off to read them you've been pretty critical as well.

However, none of you know a) whether a solution is required or b) what such a solution should look like...yet immediately take contrary positions to the actions Trump took. How are you gonna convince us that you don't suffer from TDS?

I asked you to provide a solution because I knew you would at least attempt it. Blo and Denise never would. So, kudos to you Stav, at least you stand on your words. But you do keep some rather pathetic company.

Admittedly, I tend to give Trump the benefit of the doubt for one main reason that has always held personally true for me. The person people lie about the most is most likely a far better person than those lying about them. And I've never in my life seen any president, from any country, lied about as much as Trump.

I would like to add a side note here;

Based on the plethora of lefty posts on this site, I'll take the following as a given. You guys would have preferred if Russia never invaded Ukraine and if Trump didn't take action in Venezuela.

Eventuality that could see NATO Nukes in Ukraine(10 min flight time to Moscow) and commie nukes in Venezuela(30 minute flight time to the US).

Are those eventualities you guys would be happy with? To my mind, that would bring the clock's hand a bit closer to midnight. Is that an unreasonable assumption?

...before you guys jump on chat GPT or Google and argue "there is no credible evidence blah blah blah"...these are real geopolitical fears, not some fantasy I just cooked up.

I just wonder, in your haste to poo poo everything Trump, do you lefties take this sort of stuff into account, or is it all about the low hanging fruit?

It is kind of pointless posting in this section because it's so ridiculously tribal that balanced views are non-existent.

To some, Trump is always wrong, and to others he's always right. And none of you seem to understand how stupid that is.