That is why I say we need to phase American out of our supply chains. America failed to deliver Partriots, so Switzerland cancelled the order. America then stole the payment.

US diverts Swiss F-35 funds to cover frozen Patriot payments

The United States has circumvented a Swiss payment freeze on the Patriot air defence system by redirecting funds Bern had set aside for its F-35 fighter jet acquisition, Swiss public broadcaster SRF reported on March 27, 2026.

Switzerland halted Patriot payments in July 2025 after being notified of multi-year delivery delays, but the freeze has had limited practical effect due to the structure of the US Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. The FMS program pools payments for multiple defense projects into a single fund, allowing US authorities to shift resources between programs.

Urs Loher, head of armaments at armasuisse, Switzerland’s federal defense procurement and technology agency, confirmed to SRF that US authorities had redirected the payments. He described the amount as a sum well exceeding 100 million Swiss francs, or roughly $126 million.

The diversion has opened budget gaps in Switzerland’s F-35 acquisition program. To compensate, the Swiss Defense Ministry was forced to advance tens of millions of francs ahead of schedule in late 2025. Loher described the overall situation as “very unsatisfactory,” while acknowledging that “the balance of power is quite clear”.

Delays pile up as Iran war reshapes Patriot demand

Four years ago, Switzerland signed contracts with the US for five Patriot air defense batteries, with deliveries originally scheduled to begin in 2026. In 2025, Washington informed Bern that it would prioritize deliveries to Ukraine. In February 2026, Switzerland learned that the delay would stretch to four to five years.

The outbreak of the Iran war has since strained global Patriot supply yet further. The Pentagon is now considering redirecting Ukraine-bound Patriot interceptors to the Middle East, where Operation Epic Fury has consumed munitions at a pace that is straining US stockpiles. Switzerland now expects a wait of at least five years, with no reliable new timeline from Washington.

In February 2026, the US also informed the Swiss defense ministry that the system would cost significantly more. Loher estimates the price increase at up to 50%, pushing the total purchase price up by CHF 1 billion (~$1.2 billion) to CHF 3 billion (~$3.7 billion).

Switzerland eyes cancellation and SAMP/T as an alternative

Eurosam SAMPT NG air defense system

Eurosam SAMPT NG air defense system (Credit: AeroTime)

The revelation has drawn sharp reactions across Switzerland’s political spectrum. Senator Werner Salzmann of the Swiss People’s Party called it “frustrating” that the freeze could be bypassed, claiming that trust in Washington had been damaged. Senator Josef Dittli of the center-right Radical-Liberal Party also raised concerns, suggesting authorities may not have anticipated such a mechanism. Social Democrat lawmaker Priska Seiler Graf said that the episode reinforces her party’s calls to cancel the Patriot purchase outright.

Defense Minister Martin Pfister is reportedly exploring the purchase of an alternative air defense system. One candidate is the SAMP/T, developed by the Franco-Italian consortium Eurosam. Pfister has so far stopped short of canceling the Patriot order.

The episode adds to a broader pattern of friction between Bern and Washington over arms procurement. Switzerland’s F-35 program has already been marked by cost overruns that have forced the government to reduce its planned purchase from 36 to around 30 aircraft in order to stay within the CHF 6 billion (~$7.5 billion) ceiling approved by voters in a 2020 referendum. This reduction was itself the result of price increases Washington had not flagged at the time of the original deal.

....bel die poliesie.

See how easily and quickly the Trumpanzees give their master a pass?

Bozo once boasted he could walk down the street shooting people and he wouldn't lose supporters. Might be the one true thing he's said.

Spot on Rooi...talk about double standards. En DB, pasop, die poliesie kom dalk vir jou een van dae...DUI ;)

Short answer: No — there’s no credible evidence that the U.S. “stole” money from Switzerland. The issue comes from a misunderstanding about how Patriot missile contracts and delivery schedules work.

What actually happened

1. Switzerland ordered the MIM-104 Patriot from the U.S. through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program.
2. This purchase was approved in 2022 as part of Switzerland’s air-defense modernization.
3. The U.S. later reprioritized production capacity for Patriot systems to support Ukraine and other urgent NATO needs.
4. As a result, delivery timelines for Switzerland were pushed back, not canceled.

Did the U.S. take Switzerland’s money?

No. Under the FMS process:

1. Payments are not a lump sum handed over and kept regardless of delivery.
2. Funds are tied to milestones, production, and procurement steps.
3. If schedules shift, the money is reallocated within the program, not taken away.

So Switzerland still:

1. Keeps its order
2. Keeps its place in production (though later)
3. Has its funds applied to the same system

Why people said “stole”

Some commentary framed the delay as the U.S. diverting resources to Ukraine — which is true — but that’s different from confiscating Swiss funds. The U.S. prioritized deliveries, not seized payments.

Key entities involved

1. Switzerland’s defense procurement agency Armasuisse
2. Manufacturer Raytheon Technologies (primary Patriot producer)
3. U.S. government Foreign Military Sales program Foreign Military Sales

Bottom line

1. ? No money was “stolen”
2. ?? Deliveries were delayed
3. ?? Switzerland still gets the systems it paid for

If you want, I can also explain why Patriot production

So no it wasn’t the Trumpanzees giving Trump a pass, it was the Woke set rushing to believe nonsense again.

Schooled once again

Shark is becoming mega fake news guy of late.

Post after post.

He used to be more balanced. Seems like he has long covid er TDS

Research done by Claude Sonnet 4.6 :

US circumvented Switzerland's payment freeze by redirecting funds set aside for F-35 jets to cover Patriot costs, confirmed by Switzerland's own head of arms procurement Urs Loher, who described the amount as well over 100 million Swiss francs. (Al Jazeera)

The head of Swiss arms procurement confirmed on record that the US redirected over 126 million francs of Swiss funds without consent. Swiss lawmakers across the entire political spectrum, left and right, called it frustrating and said it damaged trust in Washington. (Al Jazeera)

So what’s this then?? Also "woke" news?? Moz, it seems you are obsessed with "wokeness" :)

I would believe Switzerland over Nazi MAGA America anyday. If American cant fulfil a guaranteed order, they should refund the money. Reallocating it for America's own military is stealing.

It is very funny because the article is clear. There is no point using an A.I.

So:

As a result, delivery timelines for Switzerland were pushed back, not cancelled.

The article reads nothing like that. So the A.I is incorrect. But liberals have yet not understood how a generative A.I works and they take any answer at face value.

Switzerland froze resources due to delays and the US circumvented the absence of consent for Switzerland by using the pooling of resources structure.And due to this manoeuvering performed against the will of Switzerland, it ended costing more to Switzerland.

It is very funny: because liberal societies are not democracies. Liberal societies operate on the consent of the governed. There is no provision in the contract that makes the transfer of funds automatic when the US are at fault. So the US chose to transfer the funds.

It is a power move and the article is clear about that: the balance of power does not tilt in favour of Switzerland.

Ah, yes, if liberals want to introduce morality in their decision making, they should transfer it to black skinned people. Any black skinned person trying the same move and they would have pinned down to the wall.

Trump administration is mostly white by far so liberals give it free pass based on that.

So Al Jazeera is now the Woke source…that figures. Here’s Chat’s rebuttal, with the question exactly as I asked it:

US circumvented Switzerland's payment freeze by redirecting funds set aside for F-35 jets to cover Patriot costs, confirmed by Switzerland's own head of arms procurement Urs Loher, who described the amount as well over 100 million Swiss francs. (Al Jazeera) Is this an accurate description of what happened

Short answer: the claim is misleading as stated. It mixes a real issue (budget reallocation and cost pressure) with a strong implication (“US circumvented Switzerland’s freeze”) that isn’t supported by how these contracts actually work.

Let’s break it down carefully.

1. What is true

There has been reporting (including by Al Jazeera and others) that:

1. Switzerland is buying:
2. F-35 Lightning II fighter jets
3. Patriot missile system
4. Costs related to the Patriot system have increased or required adjustments
5. Swiss officials, including Urs Loher, have discussed:
6. reallocating funds
7. amounts on the order of 100+ million CHF

?? So:

1. Money shifting within Switzerland’s defense procurement budget is real

2. What is misleading in the claim

? “US circumvented Switzerland’s payment freeze”

This is the problematic part.

There is no clear evidence that:

1. The U.S. government bypassed or overrode a Swiss financial freeze
2. Funds were redirected without Swiss government approval

Defense purchases like F-35 and Patriot are handled through the U.S. Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system, which:

1. Requires formal agreements
2. Is government-to-government
3. Cannot simply be “rerouted” unilaterally by the U.S.

?? In practice:

1. Switzerland controls its own budget allocations
2. Any reallocation would be a Swiss decision, not a U.S. workaround

3. What likely actually happened

A more accurate description is:

?? Switzerland faced cost pressures or timing issues in its air defense procurement

?? To manage this, Swiss authorities:

1. adjusted internal budget allocations
2. potentially shifted funds between programs (e.g., F-35 vs Patriot timing)

?? Swiss officials publicly acknowledged these adjustments

4. Why the “circumvention” narrative appears

This kind of framing often arises because:

1. Large defense programs are complex and multi-year
2. Payments are scheduled differently across systems
3. Currency moves (CHF vs USD) can affect costs
4. Politically, critics frame reallocations as:
5. “pressure”
6. or “circumvention”

But those are interpretations, not necessarily factual descriptions of process

5. Bottom line

? Accurate:

1. Switzerland is buying F-35s and Patriot systems
2. There were budget adjustments (~100M+ CHF)
3. Swiss officials (including Urs Loher) discussed reallocations

? Not supported:

1. That the U.S. “circumvented” a Swiss payment freeze
2. That funds were redirected without Swiss control or consent

One-sentence conclusion

The underlying facts about cost pressures and budget reallocations are real, but the claim that the U.S. “circumvented” Switzerland’s payment freeze is a misleading interpretation rather than an established fact.

Do your homework children and do stop lying.

S B

Andf you believe the propaganda shit of pubiocations like The Guardian - you are aa very sick individual loving lies pretnding it is truth

s.

If what you claimed happened why did the Swiss not open a couirt case in the European Courts - so what you came up with here is not beleiving the Swiss Government - but media BS.

So Moz, I fed your exact Question and answer from your ChatGPT into Claude, and he says this:

"ChatGPT's answer is based on its training data which has a cutoff and does not include the March 27 2026 SRF report where Urs Loher himself confirmed the redirection on record. ChatGPT literally cannot know about something reported yesterday."

Then i put Claude's answer into my ChatGPT and this is his response:

Short answer: yes, that statement is basically true.

I have a knowledge cutoff (August 2025), which means I don’t automatically know about events that happened after that. I also don’t have live access to current news unless I specifically use a browsing tool, and even then it depends on whether that tool is being used in the moment.

So if someone asks me about something reported on March 27, 2026, I wouldn’t already know it as a fact. I could only:

• say I don’t have confirmed info, or

• rely on what the user provides, or

• look it up if browsing is enabled and used

So the core claim holds up: using me alone, without fresh sources, to debunk something from “yesterday” isn’t reliable.

/// So how now, Brown Cow?? The AI's having a battle:)

So let’s go to the source:

The United States has circumvented a Swiss payment freeze on the Patriot air defense system by redirecting funds Bern had set aside for its F-35 fighter jet acquisition, Swiss public broadcaster SRF reported on March 27, 2026.

Switzerland halted Patriot payments in July 2025 after being notified of multi-year delivery delays, but the freeze has had limited practical effect due to the structure of the US Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. The FMS program pools payments for multiple defense projects into a single fund, allowing US authorities to shift resources between programs.

Urs Loher, head of armaments at armasuisse, Switzerland’s federal defense procurement and technology agency, confirmed to SRF that US authorities had redirected the payments. He described the amount as “a low three-digit million amount”, a sum well exceeding 100 million Swiss francs, or roughly $126 million.

Four years ago, Switzerland signed contracts with the US for five Patriot air defense batteries, with deliveries originally scheduled to begin in 2026. In 2025, Washington informed Bern that it would prioritize deliveries to Ukraine. In February 2026, Switzerland learned that the delay would stretch to four to five years.

The outbreak of the Iran war has since strained global Patriot supply yet further.

………

So here is the truth. The Swiss made this agreement with FMS for Patriots and F-35 fighters. And made payments for both systems. When the Swiss heard Patriots were on slow delivery….in part because they were being used in Ukraine, they did what all European countries do, they ignored Ukraine’s needs and prioritized theirs, freezing their order.

But the little men in suits never understood the contact which is based on one pool the FMS can apply to either program. So in effect the contract never allowed for a freeze.

My guess is the government is under fire because of this and is now trying to shift blame to the US, which as always is acting within the contract. So it’s just howling at the moon stuff.

In the end these Swiss losers will get what they contracted for, but the timing and costs are subject to external events like the Ukraine. This isn’t surprising, the US doesn’t steal from countries.

……

‘What is interesting and something I didn’t know is this data cut off for Chat which I find shocking and which reduces the value of this AI model significantly. Does anybody know if this is true of other AI models like Deepseek?

’

‘

Here’s what Chat says about cut off dates:

Yes—most AI models have a knowledge cutoff, but it varies by model, provider, and whether they use live data.

1. Why models have cutoffs

AI models are trained on large datasets at a specific point in time. After that:

1. They don’t automatically learn new facts
2. Updates happen only when the model is retrained or refreshed

?? So a “cutoff date” is normal for most base models.

2. Typical cutoffs by major models (approximate)

OpenAI (ChatGPT family)

1. GPT-4 / earlier: ~2023–early 2024
2. Newer models (like this one): ~August 2025

Anthropic (Claude)

1. Claude 2 / 3 early versions: ~early–mid 2024
2. Newer Claude models: typically mid–late 2024 or early 2025

Google (Gemini)

1. Gemini models: often 2024–early 2025 range
2. Sometimes paired with live Google Search, which reduces reliance on cutoff

Meta (Llama models)

1. Llama 2: ~2023
2. Llama 3 / newer: ~2024 (varies by version)

xAI (Grok)

1. Often has near real-time access to X (Twitter) data
2. So less of a fixed cutoff in practice, but still trained on historical data

3. Important distinction: cutoff vs real-time access

There are two different capabilities:

A. Static knowledge (cutoff applies)

1. Training data only
2. No awareness of events after cutoff

B. Tool-assisted / live models

1. Can access:
2. web search
3. databases
4. APIs

?? These can answer current questions, even if the base model has a cutoff

4. What differs between models

5. Bottom line

1. Yes, nearly all AI models have a knowledge cutoff
2. Most current high-end models are in the 2024–2025 range
3. Some systems compensate with live data tools, but the underlying model still has a cutoff

One-sentence summary

Cutoff dates are standard across AI models, but the most advanced systems reduce their impact by combining static knowledge with real-time data access.

So I called Claude out for lying and blaming ChatGPT, and he gave a pretty interesting answer:

You are 100% right and I owe you a straight answer.

I did not lie intentionally but I was sloppy. I implied ChatGPT could not access current information without being upfront that I also have a cutoff and that my ability to search live depends on whether that tool is available and being used.

I presented it as if I was superior when the honest answer is we both have the same fundamental limitation.

You are right to call that out. Any AI can be wrong, any AI can give you outdated or incomplete information, and any AI can sound confident while doing it. That includes me.

The lesson is exactly what you said. Be wary of all models, verify from primary sources where possible, and never take any AI answer at face value including mine.

The SRF report and Urs Loher's confirmation on record is the actual evidence, not what any AI says about it.

That is the honest answer.

Which is what I addressed in my answer, even though it’s based on a summary of the report, not verbatim. Here is Chats advice to avoid missing out on new data:

?? The underlying rule (simplified)

The model tends to browse when the query looks like:

? Triggers browsing

1. “latest”
2. “today”
3. “recent”
4. “what’s happening now”
5. explicit request to “search” or “find”

? Usually does NOT trigger browsing

1. “Is this accurate?”
2. “Explain this claim”
3. “Evaluate this statement”

………..

This seems to be really crucial, but I have seen no reference to it before

Ah, okay, good to know. Thanks.

"Spot on Rooi...talk about double standards. En DB, pasop, die poliesie kom dalk vir jou een van dae...DUI ;)

Putting a smile after the post doesn't make it funny...I don't drink and drive, not even if I had only one light beer ...

$100M is small change in the bigger scheme of things ...they could have gone to the courts in stead of running to the press...poor attempt at anti Trump propaganda.

If you tell ChatGPT to do a web search it will be more current than its own database.

However we have the quoted words verbatim from Swiss government officials- so the answer is clear, with or without AI.

Who are you going to be believe - Switzerland or the Oligarchic America and Trump?

If America cant deliver based on their commitments, and then refuse to refund they are unreliable partners. They need to be removed from our supply chains.

I saw Trump saying he wants to take American troops out of Germany. That is fantastic. They can go to Iran and die to protect the Epstein file. Trump's friend Putin has been supplying Iran with upgraded drones with AI capability as well as surveillance. America's army has no experience in this- they are now the guinea pigs. Meanwhile Trump has a portrait of Putin on his wall.

You don’t ‘steal’ something if you are simply doing what your contract allows you to do. The time to question a contract is before you sign it…Business 101.

Here’s the relevant clause from your own post, which clearly you missed:

’The FMS program pools payments for multiple defense projects into a single fund, allowing US authorities to shift resources between programs.’

And was there a reason to shift resources? Yes the Ukraine war, that the Woke set are in favor of continuing to the last Ukranian created a priority for Patriots. So accept, there is a price to be paid…..a few years delay for missiles Switzerland will never use.

"If America cant deliver based on their commitments, and then refuse to refund they are unreliable partners. They need to be removed from our supply chains."

Good luck with the Griffons...or go buy your F35s elsewhere .

It is very funny. Liberals can not take information as soon as it contradicts their narrative which gets flimsier day after day.

There are so many holes in their narrative: lumping entities together (which is a common strategy by liberals, as illustrated magnificently with racism) Europe, several countries, different policies. Switzerland has a long history of neutrality, so assuming they are automatically supportive of Ukraine when their own interests are at stakes is another liberal short cut. Even within the EU, there are massive divergences on the level of support to Ukraine.

Pressure on Patriots supply do not come only from Ukraine's needs but also from Israel's needs.

And again, being authorised does not mean automatic. Switzerland reported an opposition, the US used contract provisions to circumvent the absence of consent. Which is the point. See how liberals work: they introduce dodgy perceptions like stealing. So they do not have to face that the US crushed the absence of consent. They dismissed it. Nothing in the contract made this behaviour automatic. It is a choice by the US.

And the OP has it already: the balance of power. The US crushed Switzerland because they could.

Liberals have a common point with fascists: just like fascists, liberals respect nothing but power.

VisKop

Don't you worry a little about your seeming need to cling to any story that appears to show Trump or the US in a bad light?

You are the guy the screamed "science" during COVID.

The stuff you post, and your sheer lack of willingness to understand what you are posting before you do so, is the antithesis of "science".

Moz explained it to you. And what's your rebuttal? Same as unironically screaming "science" in order to follow non-scientific methods only, in a different format this time, "The Swiss said so and thus it must be true" in the face of being presented with the parameters of the contract.

Perhaps simply admit that your biases drag you around by the nostrils. That would buy you some credibility.

On a more serious note, do you run your business with the same lack of ability to scrutinise facts and strategise on the basis of your findings?

If so, I have some waterproof teabags to sell you. They are scientifically researched and endorsed by the Swiss Tea Master's Association.

Switzerland halted Patriot payments in July 2025 after being notified of multi-year delivery delays,

It is very funny. Liberals in order to gain tangible short term benefits are used to playing all the angles possible. Which means there is nothing to discuss as they can no longer discuss.

July 2025: where was that? A few weeks away from a peace settlement between Russia and Ukraine according to the US. And yet, the delay is explained by the necessity to supply Ukraine.

The OP has it: balance of power and statements of power. Liberals are restricted to this.

"The Swiss said so and thus it must be true" in the face of being presented with the parameters of the contract.

It is very funny. Absence of universality. Liberals can not think universally. They fail at it. The US say so in the Iran case, the US must be believed. Here, the same line of thought can not be applied. Switzerland telling it is not enough.

And see how liberals can not confront a situation. The OP reports that the move is within the contract terms but the method remains very questionable as Switzerland did not consent to the move and even more, showed its absence of consent. That is tyranny by liberal standards.

Morning, Blo.

Thanks for yet more uninformative posts that nobody will ever read.

I plumb live to give

I know, Trad

I see that ButtPlug now seeks to crawl uip Mozart's arse, as a sycophantic toady.

ButtPlug wrote a long post of gibberish about science and Covid- the very same person who tried to prove the existence of aliens using a car hubcap from the Book of Meton. (I usually just scan, or skip the long posts by DumbMike and Buttplug).

I respect the integrity of most EU countries - their politicians are better then most.

I don't believe anything out of the Whitehouse.

California are polling at 45% to cede from America. If they leave America, it will speed up the decline of America. Most of the brains are from the blue states- California in particular. Their membership is like socialism. The red states often cant afford to pay taxes, so California has to subsize them.

Incidentally, Trump's poll ratings are lower than any US president since Nixon. Once the MAGA boots are on the ground - and they get to face Putin's upgraded AI drones, Trump's poll rating will continue to decline.

Meanwhile Trump now has his name and signature printed on money. More and more buildings are being named after him.

S B

I respect the integrity of most EU countries - their politicians are better then most.

I don't believe anything out of the Whitehouse.

California are polling at 45% to cede from America. If the leave America, it will speed up the decline of America. Most of the brain are from the blue states.

You really are a shot thinkerer if you really believe he above or you have been rainwashed into ben ga shot player,

Biden in 2021 promised the A ussie Prime Minister - whose name h could not remember - that the US A will provide 8 nuclear-powered submarines to Australia to help protect Australia o be attacked by China using thei navy. Problem is from 2019 the USA was supposed to build 2 nuclear powered and armed submarines per year - with servicing of the existing sbs wioud eb undertaken annually,

So from the above the situuation is as follows:

1. In t he period 2021 to 2024 - instead of delivering 8 new subs to the USA Navy - 2 ws in fact provided
2. of the 60 such submarnes used by he USA navy 20 was wihdrawn from Service since the were not suviced
3. the 8 promised submarines will only be delivered to Australia after 2035.

The same sitation pertains to the supply of arms to NA TO and other countries, In the case of Switzerland hey know when arms will be delvered during specific years and at presen with wo major wars in evidence - delivery to all countries will be impacted,

So what have we got insofar as your believe is concerned. It is based entirely on BS occupying your minds, You have over the last 10 years being wring iro of all your postings on Trump. You believe all the sh ot spread by the fake leftist media and when proven wring always find new BS to spread. With that kind of shiot you come up in what you believe - ad unfortunartely what you believe has always been expsoed as BS originating from elements in the media who specialize in shit-spreading.

To be won g for 10 tears withut a break - should have taught you a lesson - but with brainwashing being total - you keep showing up on site as a shit spreader, comin g up wit myths that never materialized.

.

No DumbMike, I form my opinions of Trump speaking live on Video. I don't have to read what journalists have to say. The orange Hitler has unwavering support from the religious simpletons, as was the case with Hitler in the 1930's. The lower the average IQ of a state in America, the higher the support is for Trump.

The smarter conservatives would have preferred DeSantis or Nicky Hailey - it is the simpletons that love Trump

Although the poll ratings of Trump are facts. Even your beloved Fox News confirm this.

"I see that ButtPlug now seeks to crawl uip Mozart's arse, as a sycophantic toady."

Umm okay...

"ButtPlug wrote a long post of gibberish about science and Covid- the very same person who tried to prove the existence of aliens using a car hubcap from the Book of Meton. (I usually just scan, or skip the long posts by DumbMike and Buttplug)."

Blatantly lying, while also ignoring the fact that you fully agreed with the "SCIENCE" and told us that COVD defos came from nature, while it has later been agreed that COVID was just as likely to come from a lab. And that's exactly what i tried to tell you at the time. I clearly broke down exactly why the official narrative was counte-scientific in how it treated COVID. By the way, have you changed your position and do you now accept that it could have come from a lab....or are you still all about the pseudo "SCIENCE bro"?

"I respect the integrity of most EU countries - their politicians are better then most.

I don't believe anything out of the Whitehouse."

Perfect, so your "belief" supersedes what is written down in a contract. Could you be a bigger clown if you tried?

"California are polling at 45% to cede from America. If they leave America, it will speed up the decline of America. Most of the brains are from the blue states- California in particular. Their membership is like socialism. The red states often cant afford to pay taxes, so California has to subsize them."

And...right on cue...the TDS takes over and you start to rant about something unrelated. Great job.

"Incidentally, Trump's poll ratings are lower than any US president since Nixon. Once the MAGA boots are on the ground - and they get to face Putin's upgraded AI drones, Trump's poll rating will continue to decline."

I thought this was about the Swiss and $100 million...suddenly we're on polling numbers. My guy, you're cooked, totally cooked. Have a look at the thought process you went through as you typed that post above. Straight from denying reality, written down in black and white, and into a rant about unrelated stuff.

"Meanwhile Trump now has his name and signature printed on money. More and more buildings are being named after him."

Seek help.

Cognitive dissonance is when a person experiences conflict between belief and reality, and resolves it by rationalising the facts so they align with the belief, rather than adjusting the belief to fit the fact!!!

Tell me the above isn't you, Visser.

Is this you...

SB

Your problem is over the apst decade yopu h ave been proved 100% wrong in everything you said will happen or ah ppened about Trump. Not one case was true ass roven by fact and has been otaly discredited in subsequent documnetary proof.

It is not what Trump say that count whent e h emdia quoted him out of context by th e fake emdia and you have that on site, One would call that idiocy supreme prejudiced BS.

.

SB

Your problem is over the apst decade yopu h ave been proved 100% wrong in everything you said will happen or ah ppened about Trump. Not one case was true ass roven by fact and has been otaly discredited in subsequent documnetary proof.

It is not what Trump say that count whent e h emdia quoted him out of context by th e fake emdia and you have that on site, One would call that idiocy supreme prejudiced BS.

.

And what exactly does Covid have anything to do with the topic?

"ButtPlug wrote a long post of gibberish about science and Covid- the very same person who tried to prove the existence of aliens using a car hubcap from the Book of Meton. (I usually just scan, or skip the long posts by DumbMike and Buttplug)."

Blatantly lying, while also ignoring the fact that you fully agreed with the "SCIENCE" and told us that COVD defos came from nature, while it has later been agreed that COVID was just as likely to come from a lab. And that's exactly what i tried to tell you at the time. I clearly broke down exactly why the official narrative was counte-scientific in how it treated COVID. By the way, have you changed your position and do you now accept that it could have come from a lab....or are you still all about the pseudo "SCIENCE bro"?

-----------------------

Who agrees that COVID just as likely came from a lab? You are saying the science was wrong. Was it Metonian logic that disproved human science? ButtPlug's emotion is clouding his judgment.

WHO never ruled out a lab but has always maintained that it was most probably of natural origins - just like other diseases in the past. Yet, ButtPlug has disproven science with his emotion, he does need to prove anything.

-------------------

It is very simple. Switzerland placed an order with an agreed date. That was not delivered, so they should be refunded. If America have some vague BS in the terms and conditions of the contract -then it is best to not use America as a supplier

Okay, lets simplify...

Are you saying:

My belief supersedes what a singed contract might say?

Please see the lovely definition of cognitive dissonance i provided for you above and think about it while you answer.

Just for fun...Chat Produced this when i asked who the major shareholders for CNN and the biggest vaccine producers are.

Cool, huh?

CNN (via Warner Bros. Discovery)

1. The Vanguard Group — ? 11.4%
2. BlackRock — ? 5.9% – 7.8%
3. State Street Corporation — ? 5.2% – 6.4%
4. Advance / Newhouse — ? 3.9%
5. Harris Associates — ? 3.1%

Pfizer

1. Institutional ownership (total): ? 67.7%
2. The Vanguard Group — largest holder (hundreds of millions of shares; % not precisely disclosed in source)
3. BlackRock — second largest (hundreds of millions of shares)
4. State Street Corporation — third largest (hundreds of millions of shares)

Moderna

1. Institutional ownership (total): ? 73.9%
2. The Vanguard Group — ? 10.45%
3. BlackRock — ? 7.03%
4. Baillie Gifford — ? 6.45%
5. (State Street — significant holder, % not specified in source)

AstraZeneca

1. BlackRock — ? 8.8% – 8.9%
2. The Vanguard Group — ? 5.0%
3. Capital Research — ? 3.5%
4. Investor AB — ? 3.3%
5. State Street — ? 1.7% – 1.8%

? Clean summary (cross-company overlap)

1. The Vanguard Group ? ~5–11% across multiple companies
2. BlackRock ? ~6–9% across multiple companies
3. State Street ? ~1.7–6% across multiple companies

It is very simple. Switzerland placed an order with an agreed date. That was not delivered, so they should be refunded. If America have some vague BS in the terms and conditions of the contract -then it is best to not use America as a supplier

The little Swiss men in suits placed an order with a contract that allows for flexibility in the event of unanticipated events. No different in concept from any contract that includes a Force Majeure clause.

The little self righteous darlings never understood what they had signed and their little bureaucratic lawyers never explained it to them. Then embarrassed they couldn’t have a hissyfit about the delays, they tried to imply the US cheated.

Regardless of the legal status of such a move, it's another indication that America is no longer a reliable ally and that Europe must over the medium to long term move away from reliance on American weapon systems and enablers. I'm sure other countries are considering the same.

I’m surprised that the Swiss would even raise this given the Ukraine war triggered the reallocation. But this might help you understand the principle Shark.

5. International contracts (like FMS-type deals)

In government-to-government programs:

1. Contracts often include:
2. force majeure provisions
3. but also:
4. sovereign risk clauses
5. political risk allocations

In systems like Foreign Military Sales (FMS):

1. the structure itself can reduce reliance on force majeure, because:
2. payments are pooled
3. obligations are government-backed

….

Are you saying Ukraine should have been left without Patriots just so the Swiss could get over their embarrassment?

Bad Trump —-> Bad US —-> Good Iran Dictators.

We are in grade school here.

Cognitive dissonance is an interesting term to throw around when it describes your own position and the other pro Trump guys, better than anyone else on here.

Go ahead and name one tangible positive outcome from this war.

As i have pointed out on a different post, here is what we already have from this Illegal and unprovoked war:

- civilian deaths

- rising oil prices

- global economic impact

- long-term instability

- billions are spend on war instead of

actually Making America Great Again

- Analyst all agree that this War will not

remove the Iranian System

- US allies are losing trust in Washington.

Trump is already pointing fingers at Hegseth to cover himself. And his own poll numbers are going down the drain.

None of you are willing to debunk these negatives with actual positives...Because there is none.

Every single one of you guys, filters every fact through your belief in Trump first. If it supports Trump it is true.

If it challenges Trump it is fake news, woke nonsense or cognitive dissonance in someone else. It’s a closed circuit. Nothing gets in or out.

The blind belief is so locked in that none of that matters.

The bias runs so deep that reality does not exist anymore. Oh no, everything is fantastic, the plan is working, trust the process.

But reality shows us every single day that's not true. And the way things are going right now, it is only getting worse, not better.

I mean here you guys are rationalizing The SRF report and Urs Loher's confirmation on record, the actual evidence, to fit your perceived reality.

Honestly Moz, here you are confirming the US redirected the funds by hiding behind Force Majeure and FMS pooling structure.

You are not even denying it happened anymore, you are just justifying it. Which means Shark's original story was accurate all along.

And you and Plum called it fake news and woke nonsense. Come on man, seriously...lol

That is not strategic thinking. That’s blind faith pretending to be clever. And ironically that is the purest form of TDS I have seen on this forum.

It does to show how far Trumpazee America has fallen. Most of the world is supporting Iran over America.

If America commit further war crimes and destroys the main civil energy sites, we are dealing with another Putin, another wanabee hitler.

I see the orange pig is now saying he is going to make NATO join the war unless all countries increase spending to 5% of GDP. This piece of shit thinks he can decide what wars a country enters. Let the MAGA soldiers die to protect the Epstein files.

If Allied countries join the fight in Iran, it might bring China into the war and cause WWIII.

Meanwhile, Putin plays the useful idiot Trump, so much so that Trump has a portrait in the White House of them together. All while Iran is being fed intelligence by Russia and being supplied with upgraded AI drones.

Trumpanee Logic:

Past American presidents invading countries = Bad

Trump invades countries = Good

Trump causes WWW3 = Good

Within a few months of being back in power, Trump has stated his goal is to control the Western hemisphere. This includes threatening to invade Greenland while destroying Cuba's economy, stealing Venezuela's oil and forcing it to be traded in dollars.

Trump is the Woke warrior for cult followers. Yet, most conservative people in other countries hate Trump.

The levels of TDS on display are staggering.

We're dealing with something specific here.

Can you answer the question, VisKop

Does your belief supersede what is written down in a contract?

"The levels of TDS on display are staggering."

I'm comfortable with my TDS.

I think if you don't have TDS you're either brainwashed, stupid or else you're blissfully unaware of what's happening around you.

Trump denial syndrome more like.

I'm just imagining the very different response we would be getting from some posters if Biden had launched the attack on Iran under the same conditions Trump did.

While the Trumpanzees are stamping their feet and demanding answers to their questions, is any Trumpanzee prepared to answer the question that M asked and that I asked some weeks ago . . . what has Bozo achieved in his war?

Just to list the negatives again . . .

The old less-militant Iran leader (the guy who issued a fatwa against Iran producing nukes) has been replaced by his younger son who is all for nukes and whose only claim to fame is funding proxy terrorist groups.

The price of oil has doubled.

Civilians are being killed on a daily basis.

The war is costing the US $1bn a day.

We're heading for a global recession.

The US has alienated all its traditional allies.

So what successes can you Trumpanzees list to counter those facts? Let's hear them.

"I'm just imagine the very different response we would be getting from some posters if Biden had launched the attack on Iran under the same conditions Trump did."

Ou Maaik would probably be having a heart attack.

ButtPlug, you are trying to remove context. I replied to Mozarts commenting on "believe"

What I said is that I would believe other sources over Trump. "e.g. the printed verbatim words of Switzerland)

Mozart

Hall Of Famer

49,041 posts

Mar 28, 2026, 15:59

So no it wasn’t the Trumpanzees giving Trump a pass, it was the Woke set rushing to believe nonsense again.

Schooled once again

0 0 Likes

ButtPlug (Arse-creeping Mozart)

19,328 posts

Mar 28, 2026, 16:17

Shark is becoming mega fake news guy of late.

Post after post.

0 0 Likes

sharkbok

Hall Of Famer

19,682 posts

Mar 28, 2026, 17:27

I would believe Switzerland over Nazi MAGA America anyday. If American cant fulfil a guaranteed order, they should refund the money. Reallocating it for America's own military is stealing.

There is no response he can make. It’s a contract and one which is typical of all military contracts the US writes….payments are pooled and scheduling is subject to military priorities.

In this case the military priority was the Ukraine…, supposedly something the US was failing on….but here where the US prioritizes Ukraine according to contract they are accused of stealing. And not one Woke poster has the inherent honesty to admit this was the right thing to do.

TDS trumps Ukraine, you can’t go much lower.

The world got tricked into the Iraq War by George Bush. "The Weapons of Mass Destruction". It was total bullshit. We are not falling for that one again. Armies are for self-defence, not attack.

Iran is a bad country, but they must defend themselves. MAGA boots on the ground now. lets get the popcorn ready. Go Iran!!! I guarantee that much of the West will be rooting for Iran... What a bizarre world we live in.

But dont worry, America will make a War hero movie out of this. How they liberated Iran's oil to prevent it from going to China. They will excluded to start of the war which involved staying as far back as possible, and shooting long range weapons from allied bases.

The problem being that it becomes impossible to deal with any claim because it spirals into complete chaos with everyone's personal feelings on Trump, war, USA, politics and everything else happenening all in one go.

VisKop made a post about Switzerland and $100 million.

I tried to deal with that. And yet here we are discussing polling numbers, dead civilians...

What's the point?

So, is that the status quo now? Every post about anything gets dragged into utter chaos.

Am I the only one that thinks that is not worth the effort?

SB

You are a gem wh en iot conmes to conspiracy theories and lies,

Lets get top the opinion poll in California, It is getting nearer to a Banana Republic than any other state in the u SA? A;; actual proof is that majoe companies moved their hreadquearters from Californoa to Texas and Florida, California is not goin g to seceed - if they are becomng part o the Communist paradise near to haf of the population will flee to the USA 0 in the aops t 5 years thenumb er who fled are near to 2 million,

California is so badly Go vrned that th Republiocan candidates accdng to opinion ploes Repubican candidates have mire support than the corrupt Democrat tn the pcomin g election. If both major Reublican candidates have more votrs in the upcomin g primary election than the D emocrats - only Republicans will be candudates in the upcoming Governor election. It wont happen and if a country-wide election his held on whether California shoud be allowed to elcve the U SA 60% of the vorers sshould vote for that.

With the refuees will go most of the computer industriy, whie the rural area will aply for seceeding from California and its piss poor Government. The same happens to New York - the Democrats drove the rich and wealthy from New York - now they are pleading to them to come back since there financial rsource ad busget is promoin g socialist expenditure and money is running out,

Within a few months of being back in power, Trump has stated his goal is to control the Western hemisphere. This includes threatening to invade Greenland while destroying Cuba's economy, stealing Venezuela's oil and forcing it to be traded in dollars.

Where the ehll did you get tha garbg e from or is it your shotbrain has worked it out,

.

SB

You are a gem wh en iot conmes to conspiracy theories and lies,

Lets get top the opinion poll in California, It is getting nearer to a Banana Republic than any other state in the u SA? A;; actual proof is that majoe companies moved their hreadquearters from Californoa to Texas and Florida, California is not goin g to seceed - if they are becomng part o the Communist paradise near to haf of the population will flee to the USA 0 in the aops t 5 years thenumb er who fled are near to 2 million,

California is so badly Go vrned that th Republiocan candidates accdng to opinion ploes Repubican candidates have mire support than the corrupt Democrat tn the pcomin g election. If both major Reublican candidates have more votrs in the upcomin g primary election than the D emocrats - only Republicans will be candudates in the upcoming Governor election. It wont happen and if a country-wide election his held on whether California shoud be allowed to elcve the U SA 60% of the vorers sshould vote for that.

With the refuees will go most of the computer industriy, whie the rural area will aply for seceeding from California and its piss poor Government. The same happens to New York - the Democrats drove the rich and wealthy from New York - now they are pleading to them to come back since there financial rsource ad busget is promoin g socialist expenditure and money is running out,

Within a few months of being back in power, Trump has stated his goal is to control the Western hemisphere. This includes threatening to invade Greenland while destroying Cuba's economy, stealing Venezuela's oil and forcing it to be traded in dollars.

Where the ehll did you get tha garbg e from or is it your shotbrain has worked it out,

.

Am I the only one that thinks that is not worth the effort?

There is no moderation here. That's the problem...people aren't forced to stay on topic so they don't and it applies to pretty much everyone on here

Rooinek

The old less-militant Iran leader (the guy who issued a fatwa against Iran producing nukes) has been replaced by his younger son who is all for nukes and whose only claim to fame is funding proxy terrorist groups.

Soiurce please.

One would think that adults would have the mental fortitude to at least attempt to avoid turning every discussion into a madness soup.

I'm always up for discussing things but I'm not here to wade through fuckery soup.

Ou Maaik, try any reputable news agency . . . just not the right wing crap you read.

@DumbMike, Big Tech companies and their Oligarchic rulers are moving operations out of California to dodge tax.

In Texas, the richer someone is - the lower the rate of tax they pay. That is what is attracting the Oligarchs.

A person is still allowed to spend more than 50% of their time in California, even if they have their residence outside of California - and still dodge tax.

California should cut that back the number of days, and then they are stuck in MAGA land.

Where their are cities, their are brains - like Dallas (unlike much of Texas).

However, it cant compete with California which has significantly higher brain capacity.

One would think that adults would have the mental fortitude to at least attempt to avoid turning every discussion into a madness soup.

Have you never used the internet before?

Well Plum, I'm only asking because you keep insisting people answer your question when not a single Trumpanzee has answered the far more important and relevant question . . . what has Bozo actually achieved with this war?

-

-Even the Pope is not a Trumpanzee.

"Iran is a bad country, but they must defend themselves. MAGA boots on the ground now. lets get the popcorn ready. Go Iran!!! I guarantee that much of the West will be rooting for Iran... What a bizarre world we live in."

Indeed, WTF are you thinking?...Iran isn't the good guys here...they aren't the passive victims here... they've been meddling and disrupting peace in the the region and elsewhere for half a century.

So given the silence and the usual Woke piling on, we have to accept this group believes the US was wrong in exercising its rights under contract and getting the Ukraine more Patriots.

So if that's what they believe, I guess we will hear no more about how the US has let down the Ukraine and Europe is supporting them.

"Well Plum, I'm only asking because you keep insisting people answer your question when not a single Trumpanzee has answered the far more important and relevant question . . . what has Bozo actually achieved with this war?"

1. Iranian fleet destroyed,
2. Iranian Military capability all but destroyed,
3. Iranian leadership thinned out considerably,
4. China, Russia and some other countries like South Africa circumventing sanctions and getting cheap oil from Iran prevented,
5. Giving hope to millions of Iranians living under the regime that there is at least a chance for getting freedom from their oppressors.

"- civilian deaths

There were even more deaths under the regime under normal conditions.

- rising oil prices

In the short term

- global economic impact

again, short term

- long-term instability

Opinion, it can't really get more unstable in the region while Iran keeps on getting away with their nonsense.

- billions are spend on war instead of

actually Making America Great Again

Long term gains of an open and free oil market will dwarf the short term expense.

- Analyst all agree that this War will not

remove the Iranian System

They are probably all wrong, jumping at a chance to get at Trump, there are others who don't agree...only time will tell

- US allies are losing trust in Washington.

Not allies ATM, rather fair-weather friends.

So if that's what they believe, I guess we will hear no more about how the US has let down the Ukraine and Europe is supporting them.

By the strictest legal sense, the US acted within their rights and it looks like the Swiss didn't read the small print. It still damages trust though. Because we know the US and Israel are also expending Patriot missiles in the Iran conflict and they already have spoken about potentially shifting intended aid for Ukraine to the Middle East. How do we know for certain that this step wouldn't have been necessary if not for the Iran war, a war of choice that America triggered... perhaps there would of been enough patriot missiles for Ukraine without having to shift the money around or delay the Swiss purchase.

Ummm . . . if the Iranian military and navy were destroyed, who is keeping the Straits of Hormuz bottlenecked?

Serious question.

"Ummm . . . if the Iranian military and navy were destroyed, who is keeping the Straits of Hormuz bottlenecked?

The threat of terrorism...the same thing that let them get their way for the last 46 years...

I said all but destroyed... there's some work left.

There were even more deaths under the regime under normal conditions.

True but we don't know if this conflict with escalate or lead into something worse.

In the short term

That's a hope... not even an educated guess.

again, short term

Ditto. You have absolute nothing to base that claim on.

Opinion, it can't really get more unstable in the region while Iran keeps on getting away with their nonsense.

A crap opinion. Trump literally just made the region far more unstable. Open your eyes.

Long term gains of an open and free oil market will dwarf the short term expense.

Again...you have zero to base such a assessment on.

They are probably all wrong, jumping at a chance to get at Trump, there are others who don't agree...only time will tell

This is cult member talk.

Not allies ATM, rather fair-weather friends.

The people reasonable for this cluster fuck need to man up and take responsibility for their own mess and fix it... but we all know they simply aren't capable of it... so all we are going get is them passing the blame.

"By the strictest legal sense, the US acted within their rights and it looks like the Swiss didn't read the small print. It still damages trust though.

Welcome to the real world.

Because we know the US and Israel are also expending Patriot missiles in the Iran conflict and they already have spoken about potentially shifting intended aid for Ukraine to the Middle East. How do we know for certain that this step wouldn't have been necessary if not for the Iran war, a war of choice that America triggered... perhaps there would of been enough patriot missiles for Ukraine without having to shift the money around or delay the Swiss purchase.

Exactly the kind of eventuality for which the clause was there in the first place...

"I said all but destroyed... there's some work left."

But didn't Bozo say that he'd "obliterated" the navy, the army and the anti-aircraft?

You do know what the word "obliterated" means, Draad?

You don't think maybe there's even a chance he was lying again, do you?

Welcome to the real world.

LOL the lack of self awareness... it's truly astounding.

Exactly the kind of eventuality for which the clause was there in the first place...

Yeah so why would someone want to do business with them in future.

Since diumness there are no aternatov providers other than pehaps Russia and China - bt democratic countries has no option other than the USA offers. Now let me explain further the USA stock needsd come first and that was not the situation under the corrupt Autopen Biden presidency was and when he left the army was in short supply so importing from the USA are affected internally by the USA is delayied. . .

So there is your list of positives after all this time. So DB what is missing from every single point?

What about the thousands of civilians killed. And the children. Any mention of the hospitals, the schools, the destroyed infrastructure...Huh?!

And this self serving egomaniac "The Oros Man" sends other people's children to die for his own ambitions.

And even on the strategic points the facts do not hold up. Iranian military all but destroyed yet they are still standing firm and not budging on a single demand.

Leadership thinned out yet replaced by a younger more radical figure who is more pro nuclear than the one before.

But the last point is the cherry on the cake...Giving hope to millions of Iranians by bombing them. What utter nonsense, DB. That is not liberation.

Call it what it is, it’s just destruction. So after everything, that is the best case you can make for this war. A military checklist with zero human beings on it...WTF?

"Yeah so why would someone want to do business with them in future."

Yes, they can go buy some nice fighter jets from England or France... hopefully they read the contract next time around.

"In the short term

That's a hope... not even an educated guess.

again, short term

Ditto. You have absolute nothing to base that claim on."

Yes, that's why said only time will tell....and judging by the past half century, trusting Iran on anything is even more risky...every time they don't get their way, they threaten the whole world's oil supply...like they are doing now...they are the self declared enemies of everyone not the same sect as their radical Islamic regime...do you want to wait until they are strong and capable enough to make good on their threats?

M, you're just repeating yourself while ignoring everything I said...saying something twice, doesn't give it more weight...and you've been repeating it more than just twice...I don't see it that way, I'm not going to repeat myself ...

Putin plays Trump like a fiddle, ditto Netanyahu, & now Iran joins the Fiddlers club

That list you gave is not positives, those are military objectives in an illegal unprovoked war.

Iran did not attack America or Isreal. There was no proof they were going to. So everything on that list is built on a foundation that does not exist.

And not one word about civilians dying.That says everything about where your priorities actually are.

We need to make special section called "Virtue Signalling Corner."

Bloody nauseating

Yes, they can go buy some nice fighter jets from England or France... hopefully they read the contract next time around.

You do realise that's exactly what they will do.

Caring about civilians dying is virtue signalling to you. That single sentence tells everyone exactly who you are.

"You do realise that's exactly what they will do."

Well, good luck to them then... there's a premium on quality...

"Caring about civilians dying is virtue signalling to you. That single sentence tells everyone exactly who you are."

Only those who get hurt by Trump's actions are worth caring about...

"Caring about civilians dying is virtue signalling to you. That single sentence tells everyone exactly who you are."

Double down, why don't ya.

DB, stop being a coward and putting words In my mouth.

I have repeatedly condemned civilian deaths on all sides including those killed by Hamas and those who died protesting in Iran.

How about opening your eyes and reading properly...

And Plum, double down? Maybe instead of worrying about what I say, start looking in the mirror and checking your own moral compass.

Because from where I am standing it needs serious adjustment.

Well, good luck to them then... there's a premium on quality...

There a premium on getting things on time too.

And Plum, double down? Maybe instead of worrying about what I say, start looking in the mirror and checking your own moral compass.

Accusation of virtue signalling are the refrain of someone who doesn't have an argument to stand over... like people who call anything they don't like woke... like it somehow makes reality irrelevant.

"And Plum, double down? Maybe instead of worrying about what I say, start looking in the mirror and checking your own moral compass.

Because from where I am standing it needs serious adjustment."

Go on, tell me what I should be adjusting...

And then I'll have my turn.

Plum, if you genuinely need me to tell you what needs adjusting then that answers the question better than anything I could ever say...

Ah, so you prefer ambiguity.

It's probably for the best

Go ahead. Nobody is stopping you.

Stopping me from?

What should be adjusted is the Woke set should agree that the US did the right thing by prioritizing the missiles for Ukraine, stole nothing and acted within contract parameters that were created exactly for responding to eventualities like the Ukraine. Switzerland should be endorsing this rather than implying they have been cheated and if anything the Woke set should be critical of the Swiss attitude. But rather than doing that the whole group keep trying to make this thread all about Trump….and pretending they are on the high ground.

Trump has threatened to destroy all of Iran's energy network - not just military..

Yet, the Trumpanzee species think this is some mission of peace, an emissary mission - the work of God.

This will only unite Iran against America, and the rest of the Arab world.

" the US did the right thing by prioritizing the missiles for Ukraine"

- Nonsense, much like any of Trump's lies that his followers parrot at will.

Switzerland probably purchased them for Ukraine.

All resources are being diverted to the war in Iran, not to Ukraine. America recently announced this, so it is not even debatable

Diversion….change your heading

You fall back on the American Trumpanzee approach. Anyone who disagrees with you is left wing Woke or fake news. Most conservative people in Europe hate Trump, so you can keep your culture wars in America.

Other Democracies can at least settle on what is fact are what is ideology or open to interpretation.

MAGA is not conservatism. It is the poor and uneducated getting duped by a conman and the Oligarchs.

Get those MAGA boots on the ground. The world will be watching and hoping to see them fail.

The subject is your claim that the US stole from Switzerland….they actually changed priorities to support Ukraine, according to the contract….change your heading. It’s the honest thing to do….this doesn’t involve Trump.

Or leave it up there as a lie.

so you can keep your culture wars in America.

F**king precisely. We want nothing to do with that nonsense.

Nope of course not, why would a nation like Ireland which was controlled by terrorists for 50 years and then became a tax haven want culture wars. Or a nation like England bother about incarceration of innocents when they were responsible for up to 25000 innocent Boer deaths in concentration camps, mostly children.Or a nation like Spain that was run by a dictator for 36 years have a problem with dictators in Iran. Or Switzerland not think they are being robbed, when their banks are loaded with stolen funds including those of the ANC elite. Or a nation like Belgium have any problems with prisoners being abused when they experimented on people in the Congo. Or Denmark worry about women in Iran when they were experimenting on Greenland women as recently as 2018 with peak activity in the 1990s. Or Germany have any concerns for the Israelis that were killed in 2024, when Germany and their collaborators have 6 million Jewish notches on their belt?

Yep with a record like that Europe has every right to be concerned about the ‘horror’ of American culture wars..

And still not one woke person has the common decency to ask Shark to change his dishonest heading. I guess they have believed so many lies already that one more doesn’t matter much to them.

...and Snark is actually cheering Iran on... he hates America, not only Trump...even quoting the Pope these days ... bizarre...

They all are….every one wants the US to fail in Iran. Solidly lined up behind the Ayatollahs. Next time Europe begs for help they may find these episodes a bit inconvenient. Every bit of anti American rhetoric by European leaders is on the record.

The one that seems to rankle most is the politically motivated dispatch of European troops to protect Greenland against American aggression. If the half a million American soldiers who died protecting Europe against Europe in two world wars count for nothing anymore, that certainly proved it.

Indeed...they know very well the USA won't invade Greenland, they used it as an excuse to invade it themselves.

Woke se gat, every day & I woke up to Trump's sheer madness & its become crystal clear that Trump is way out of his depth ... couple that with a comic book Minister of War & a sycophantic inept cabinet.

He's an evil batshit bastard.

See my the definition of cognitive dissonance.

VisKop made a claim. It's obviously fake news. He gets called on it, and then, in an attempt make reality fit his feelings, we are suddenly talking about polling numbers, Nazis, MAGA, you name it...

He has basically admitted that what he "believes" supersedes a signed contract. Let that sink it.

...then ask yourself if there is any room for reason or logical discourse.

Mpower

Since the targets in the attacks on Iran an estiamted 3 000 ere actually killed a huge percentage f th ose are part of th e ilegitmate Ayatollah regime, After the protests in Iran in December 2025 an estimated 30 000 peopele were murdered by the Regime in Iran - So t he act si you are talking sh iot a gain based on what the Iran disnformation service provide on the internet,

When Hamas attacked Israel in 2023 - no problem for people on site - the Hamas attack was fully jsutified. The result was death of more than 70 000 people in Gaza and Israel, The arms of mas and their funding came from Iran and the murder of people are fine with you/

Amazing BS.

Nope of course not, why would a nation like Ireland which was controlled by terrorists for 50 years and then became a tax haven want culture wars. Or a nation like England bother about incarceration of innocents when they were responsible for up to 25000 innocent Boer deaths in concentration camps, mostly children.Or a nation like Spain that was run by a dictator for 36 years have a problem with dictators in Iran. Or Switzerland not think they are being robbed, when their banks are loaded with stolen funds including those of the ANC elite. Or a nation like Belgium have any problems with prisoners being abused when they experimented on people in the Congo. Or Denmark worry about women in Iran when they were experimenting on Greenland women as recently as 2018 with peak activity in the 1990s. Or Germany have any concerns for the Israelis that were killed in 2024, when Germany and their collaborators have 6 million Jewish notches on their belt?

Yep with a record like that Europe has every right to be concerned about the ‘horror’ of American culture

LOL...run by terrorists for 50 years. News to me.

I clealy hit a nerve if you felt compelled to type such crap.

What about the thousands of civilians killed. And the children. Any mention of the hospitals, the schools, the destroyed infrastructure...Huh?!

I have repeatedly condemned civilian deaths on all sides including those killed by Hamas and those who died protesting in Iran.

And Plum, double down? Maybe instead of worrying about what I say, start looking in the mirror and checking your own moral compass

So these comments have all been made by the same guy who says that he doesn't give a damn about the financial aid that Africa, or South Africa receives, and that to him this financial aid is meaningless....because he believes that this financial aid does not affect him directly, so why should he care.......or give a damn

However.... M wants to constantly preach to everyone on here about empathy and thousands of civilian deaths in these other countries...

Yeah.....ok .... look in your own mirror M.... and check your own moral compass

The first person to deviate from the topic on this thread was ButtPlug, when he brought Covid conspiracies into this. Then he complains about going off topic,,LOL

NATO are being responsible by not getting involved in the Trump Epstein distraction war.

No one expected America to elect Hitler democratically.

If NATO got involved, it could escalate into a global war, and then potentially WWIII.

All of Trump's actions are an attempt to target China. America can see that China's rate of progress is so fast that it could become the world's leading economy in 10 years.

Meanwhile, America is getting torn apart by their cultural war. The United States of America has become the Divided States of America. If the Democrats do not win in 2028, California will likely secede from America to become its own country. They are funding many of the red states who cant afford to pay taxes.

A communist China has a fairer economy than America. America is no longer a properly functioning Democracy. Trump declared war on Iran without the consent of Congress. He has consolidated power under his own branch, like other authoritarian leaders before him.

More American war hero claims about WWII, where they claim to have won the war.

Everyone knows that America only entered the war near the end. This was after Pearl Harbour when America declared war on Japan (They still did not enter WWII).

Only when Germany declared war on America did they finally enter the war.

The USSR was responsible for over 75% of the deaths of Hitler's army. Hitler messed up by trying to attack the USSR during winter.

"The first person to deviate from the topic on this thread was ButtPlug, when he brought Covid conspiracies into this. Then he complains about going off topic,,LOL"

Yes, i did that for a reason...read it again...

"The stuff you post, and your sheer lack of willingness to understand what you are posting before you do so, is the antithesis of "science".

Moz explained it to you. And what's your rebuttal? Same as unironically screaming "science" in order to follow non-scientific methods only, in a different format this time, "The Swiss said so and thus it must be true" in the face of being presented with the parameters of the contract."

It was simply to make the larger point that feelings override facts for you when it comes to Trump and the US. It did not veer off topic AT ALL.

Which is entirely different to going on some insane rant about polling numbers, Nazis, etc, that have nothing to do with this.

And the point remains, because now we are apparently discussing culture wars and whatever else you need to be able to justify the fact that you think your feelings override what is written down in a contract.

NATO are being responsible by not getting involved in the Trump Epstein distraction war

Trump was reckless to not involve and inform NATO of his intentions to attack Iran

DA, that's quite different to what you said here:

"Mar 05, 2026, 08:33

Trump was absolutely correct to target Iran

Previously, Iran has called for the elimination or annihilation of Israel, calling it "Little Satan", or the "Cancerous Tumor" and it is a regime that must be "Wiped off the map"

Most experts have agreed that Iran's nuclear program has long been viewed as a potential means to achieve that objective.

The US government has stated for years that a nuclear Iran would very likely seek the total annihilation of Israel.

The council of foreign relations has also stated that a nuclear Iran poses a existential threat to Israel

Israel is the only country that Iran has repeatedly threatend with destruction in official statements.

Obviously... targeting Israel or anywhere else with even one nuclear missile, would be absolutely suicidal for Iran, because they would be completely obliterated from the world map..... but just imagine a time and day where Iran was permitted to continue their nuclear ambitions, in good faith, and then for some reason, one day, you wake up and see that they have targeted Israel with a nuclear weapon, due to no or very limited oversight on their nuclear ambitions.....

That needed to be avoided at all costs, and Trump did that."

Not caring about aid that doesn’t reach all ordinary people is not the same as not caring about civilians being killed.

One is about real economic impact, the other is basic human reality.

You’ve taken a practical point about cost of living and twisted it into a moral argument because you’ve got nothing else.

You jumped in from the sidelines, cherry-picked a line, and tried to manufacture a contradiction that isn’t there...

DA, spare me the moral lecture.

You’re talking about “millions of lives” and empathy, but when an real world case comes up...like a mother being shot by ICE...you’re suddenly very quiet or busy justifying it.

So don’t stand here preaching to me about compassion when yours clearly depends on who’s involved and when it suits your argument.

You want to talk about Morals and hypocrisy? Start there.

DA, that's quite different to what you said here:

I don't see anything different at all

I said, and I have continued to say, even in my most recent post in another thread today, that Trump was 100% correct to target Iran..... I have never once changed my stance on that....and I won't.

Could he have done a better job, hell yes

Could he have waited a little longer...... I believe so, yes

Could he have involved more people to discuss all the possibilities of going to war with Iran, especially the possible world repercussions with regards to the Strait Of Hormuz ....absolutely

Do I think he should have consulted with NATO before going ahead .... yes

Do I think it was reckless and stupid to do so, and only then ask NATO for help later ... yes

I posted that almost a month ago....... have I changed some thoughts or opinions on this war and how it has gone... damn right I have.

Don't make it sound like just because I agree with Trump on this war with Iran that I now agree to anything and everything he says and does, and that there is no room for improvement and that he is never wrong... because I don't and never will.

Not caring about aid that doesn’t reach all ordinary people is not the same as not caring about civilians being killed.

Lol.... whatever helps you sleep at night M

No aid to Africa results in millions being killed every year from starvation, famine, disease, healthcare etc etc

Yeah.... whatever

So don’t stand here preaching to me about compassion when yours clearly depends on who’s involved and when it suits your argument

Yep, because you are the very same guy that shows no compassion at all if no aid comes in, because as you yourself said, it doesn't affect or help White people, so fuck everybody else...

Selective empathy M .... not cool

DA, you said Bozo was "absolutely correct" to go to war.

If something is absolute, there are no "buts" or "maybes".

DA, now you just making things up.

I never said “no aid should exist” and I never said “fuck everybody else" because they not white...what utter nonsense.

My point is simple and hasn’t changed:

Aid that doesn’t improve the daily reality of all ordinary people is not something I’m going to celebrate or feel grateful for. That’s a practical point, not a moral one.

I was talking about South Africa and my real life situation, not the whole of “Africa” and your dramatic “millions dying” narrative. Stick to what I actually said, not what you wish I said.

And this “selective empathy” nonsense?

Caring about civilians dying and questioning whether aid improves my cost of living are two completely different things.

You’re the one trying to mash them together to score a cheap shot. Nice, just keep on inventing things I didn’t say.

DA, you said Bozo was "absolutely correct" to go to war.

If something is absolute, there are no "buts" or "maybes".

He was, and I still believe that... no question....I just have questions and reservations now on some issues that have happened since that post was made.

In particular, nobody knew what would happen with the Stait of Hormuz..... not you, not me, not Trump and I assume nobody that Trump comsulted with either....

So yeah, could many aspects of this war have been done better, or differently ....absolutely....

I see nothing different to you and your Rassie analogy that has been brought up so many times in the past.... regarding winning the world cup....you said it would never happen with Rassie at the helm.....then you changed your mind later, after the world cup had already been won or whilst it was being won, or something similar to that, I don't remember the specifics .... it's called hindsight, and I have never once brought it up with you, because after it happened, you had the opportunity to look at things differently...... and you did, and you changed your opinion on it......so allow me the same courtesy... I have seen and heard things since I made that post, and my opinion on certain things have changed.

For clarity, I "absolutely" agree with what Trump did 100% .....regarding the war with Iran ......but now you want to add in everything that has happend since I made that post nearly a month ago, which is crazy.

Do I believe there are many different ways Trump could have done it better, which would possbily have resulted in less lives lost.... absolutely..... do I still agree with this war with Iran, yes I do.

In the knockout stages of the 2023 RWC I said that if Rassie wins this thing for us that I will never criticise him again.

All I did was keep my promise.

Don't get me wrong, I welcome Trumpanzees changing their minds and finally recognising that this self-serving and incompetent fool is in fact a very dangerous clown. I'm just not seeing any of you admitting it.

LOL...run by terrorists for 50 years. News to me.

I clealy hit a nerve if you felt compelled to type such crap

Anger I said controlled by terrorists, meaning for 50 years these thugs flourished and affected the welfare of the whole country….not ‘run’ which has a different meaning, although I accept this may not be obvious to you.

If you want to quote me, cut and paste, that way we can also avoid associating me with your crude English, grammar and typos. Is that cleal (sic).

In the knockout stages of the 2023 RWC I said that if Rassie wins this thing for us that I will never criticise him again.

I was referring to your comment about if they win it, it will be despite him and not with him.... or something like that... but I could be wrong, and it honestly doesn't even matter, all I was saying was that I respected your change of opinion towards Rassie... it happens to all of us, all the time.... just as the world cup developed, your opinions changed on rassie..... and as this war progresses, my opnions have changed.... it is what it is.... and I am not hiding it, why should I or would I, I am not ashamed of my constantly changing opinions of what happens in my everyday life.

I do criticise Trump, I always have, and I always will....and I won't stop, and I won't increase or reduce that level of criticism just to meet someone's expectations of what or how I should be behaving towards Trump to appease them.

I haven't always trusted Trump

I haven't always believed Trump

I haven't always agreed with Trump

I have called him an egotiscal narcicistic lying arsehole before, and that won't change

Yes, I believe Trump can be dangerous, but anyone in that position can be a dangerous person

All of this above and also my lack of commenting on something in particular, does not mean that I endorse anything and everything that Trump says or does, and my silence on any topic also does not mean that I endorse or condone anything that Trump says or does either, it just means that I don't and won't ever feel the need to speak up or voice a personal opinion, just to please people like you who believe that if I won't or don't speak up and say something on something in particualr, that I am now automatically in agreement with whatever it is being posted, when in fact it is far from it.

Donald Trump has claimed to be talking to a "new regime" in Iran, in negotiations which are making "great progress".

But in the same announcement, the US president again threatened to blow up Iranian power plants if a deal is not reached soon. Follow live below.

How can anyone admire Trump? I have never met or seen anyone lie as much as he does.

"How can anyone admire Trump?"

I often ask myself the same question. A truly repulsive human being.

Trump threatens to 'obliterate' Iran's power plants, oil wells, desalination plants and Kharg Island if Strait of Hormuz is not opened 'immediately'

I don't recall anyone saying that they admire Trump

Try reading a few posts from ou Maaik or Draad . . .

So can we assume ……’if Rassie Trump wins this thing for us that I will never criticise him again’….applies?

Define "win" first.

A land attack is almost impossible in such a mountainous region. Kharg island is the logical target, but they can still load oil from smaller ships to tanker ships. So America would need to destroy those ships as well.

Although taking Kharg might be relatively easily, but maintaining it will probably be harder. American soldiers coulld be sitting ducks.

Stocks set new records, the only reliable indicator,

Now, Hitler (Trump) also says he will take out the water supply. Any Iranians who might have supported the destruction of the Iranian leadership are going to change their tune. No water and no electricity is going to make them more radical.

". . . the only reliable indicator,"

If you're a billionaire maybe. Not so much for the average person who hasn't got shares . . . in other words, the vast majority.

Stocks will only set records if oil prices decline and economic activity picks up creating jobs to replace those lost to AI. Plenty of room there for the working man to participate. But the people in Iran need a new government, their calculus is different .

SB

I d not recpgnoze you nmymore - yars a o you rote shit n site - but at east you try and pove it from some sources.

Now you write totlly il;logical snmakeshot n sote amd you have obviously gone bonke totally, There are not even logic about anything you wrote, You sound more and more like an Ayatollah regme admorer and in fact you come up with unbelievable BS/

One can nwo see no t hinkin g ability to find out what you come up iwth is BS Supreme lik bstating that Trump is equiaslent to Hitler. S o you are an arsekreeper f the A yatollah Regim and Stalin - with Mao thrwn in fr good measuure, Htred have driven you to madnes and brainwashing adds to it,

Really time for you to consult a shrink before you end up in a loony binm. . ,

DumbMike, you are a backward redneck.

Anyone who supports bombing a country's energy and water supplies is a sub-human.

It is a war crime- and it would lead to genocide.

Stocks set new records, the only reliable indicator,

What?

Firstly while some stocks are achieving record high this month, it's actually not a historically high number. Of 5,135 stocks evaluated just 0.5%of them were at record highs.

Overall the number is actually unusually low which indicates a weaker market than headline indexes suggest.

As for the Indexes themselves. the S&P 500, Dow Jones and Nasdaq all achieved records highs in the recent past, but before the War with Iran started. None of them are at record highs now.

But even if the stock markets are booming... do you really think the radicals in Tehran are just going say oh wow that's fantastic, lets stop the war and cash in our secret billions of Nvidia stock?

It's also been widely reported that in the last few days the markets have stopped responding as much to Trump's statements as they don't trust him after all his flip flops and are actually more interested in what Iran says, because they seem to be coming around to what many geo-political pundits are thinking...that Iran now holds the strategic initiative and the war will likely end when Iran decides it wants it to end, not Trump.

Pooinek I an surorized by your all round approach. F=r years CNN and oth er leftist media spoke about what tuned out to be the Rusiaan Hoax. The refrain went on for years and your daily forecasrt of Trump being guilty of collusion wiotyh Putin n the 2016 electrion. Trump was guuilty and he must be ku cked ot of the Presidency.

Since then there were 2 Special Council investigations and an investgation as to te conduct of the FBI conduct when ot comes to the collusion alegations,

S o Muelde was appointed to find Trump G uilty and he went on for 30 months hiring only lawyers approved by the D P leadership and a ter wasting $100 million and came out with a report tha indicated eh fund no evidence he added an indocy that he cannt "exonerate{ Trump - a stupid idiocy since there is no provision in legal handbooks aand the cosnitution that anybody can be exonerated from a criminal guilty of a crime - charges must be laid. If a court has found the accused to be pardoned by the Presidenmt, Reccenrtly you qipted that BS as proving anything . NOBODY CAN EXONERATE ANYBODY ACCUSED OF COMMITTING A CRIME SUCH A PESON MUST BE ACCISED IN A COURT OF LAW. tHAT IS NOT FROM ANY NEWSAPER OT S FROM jUDICIAL PROCESSES IN THE USA.

In any event Muelleer was a despicable liar - he wa th person who convnced the S enate to authotize the Iraq invsion in 2003 claiming their is proof of Iraq has weapons of mass destruction - while it was proven to be a lie - causing the deaths of millions of people. His nxt racke protecion job relates to he Uranium 1 case. Uranium 1 used to be a SA company = but afterwars oved them to he Canadian stock exhnage,. Before that Unrium 1 gpt te mining rights on Uranium iro 25$ of the U SA strategic reserve of the USA. In 2011 the Russian Company Rosatom tried to buy Uranium 1, In view of the strategic situation the Obama Administration had tto approve of the sale, Despite eerything the sale was approved,

The D irham Specia Council was appointed to find the source of the lies used by the media months later Rosatom made a contribution of $142 million to t he racketeering Clinton Foundation. A a result of the obvious corrupt scandal Mueller was appoed as S pecial Council to investgate what happened, He claimed in his report he could found no proof of what happned to the $142 million and he could not implicate anybody invoved in the scam. So once a liar always a liar/

Now back to what really was found as t he rpigin of the Russian Collution allegations, Special Council Huxham found that the who sage was started by the Clinton Election Campaign supported by the Obma Afdmi.nistration. That was supported about the origin of the lies used in the media. In his report he exposed the lies and fale documents fed to the media came from the FBI and the CIA. Huxhm did find the basic truth about hat happened, - but one document was not made available to Huxham - it was a CIA document dated 7 December 2016 the CIA claimed that they could find no evidence of any corrupt and illegal relationship btween Trump's electopm camaign and the Russians. The document was supposed to eb released to the media on 8 December 2016 - but it was never released, since Obama called a meeting of some of his cabinet memebers - inclusive of Boden and Clintonm and together with the CIA nd FBI would act to undermine teh Trump A dministration wth the aim to have Trump impeached,

That dcuent was supposed tos top the leis of the Democrats and the emdia - but they enver stopped ying and you never stopped believing the lies, If I found out soebody had lied to em on a dai;y basis I would have learned fnmever to trust the media/. It later came out that th real reason for the raid by the FBI on Trump's home was driven b the fear that he may have a copy of the CIA report of 7 Dcember 2016 using ot he may put a lot of eople in jail. As ii was the document was not amomgst the documents ziessed by the FBI.

The above are based on report nd documents exposed since 2016 - and oif you continue with arguments based on lies you are suffering abdly from delusion and are psychologically irrationa.

l . .

"Try reading a few posts from ou Maaik or Draad . . ."

Aha, the new bandwagon...good luck with that.

Did hitler hit civilian targets (e.g. water, energy) against countries they attacked

Yes. Nazi Germany, under Hitler’s leadership, repeatedly attacked or disrupted infrastructure that supplied essentials such as water, power, housing, and transport in the countries it invaded or bombed. These attacks were often aimed at both military?industrial targets and civilian areas, and they crippled civilian life as much as the war economy.

Cities and “morale” bombing

The Luftwaffe deliberately bombed cities such as Warsaw in 1939 and Rotterdam in 1940, targeting urban centers, residential districts, and even clearly marked hospitals to break civilian morale and force surrender. Later in the war, the Luftwaffe also conducted terror?style bombing of British cities (e.g., the Blitz), which hit housing, utilities, and public services.

Effects on water, energy, and services

In occupied and bombed areas, attacks on power stations, railways, and urban infrastructure often deliberately or effectively cut off water supplies, electricity, and sanitation.

Operations against utilities in occupied territory

Hitler’s forces also seized and repurposed foreign utilities. In Norway, the Vemork hydroelectric plant was used to produce heavy water for Germany’s nuclear?weapons research, so it became a military?industrial target rather than a purely civilian water?and?power facility. This illustrates how “civilian” infrastructure such as hydro plants could be turned into strategic targets, and vice versa, blurring the line between military and civilian objectives.

List other leaders/countries that have used the same tactics since WW2

Completed 1 step

Since World War II, several leaders and governments have employed similar tactics—deliberately attacking or weaponizing civilian infrastructure such as water, electricity, and housing—to weaken enemy societies or populations. Below are some major examples, grouped by conflict and actor.

Soviet Union / Russia

1. Soviet–Afghan War (1979–1989): Soviet airpower repeatedly bombed villages, irrigation systems, and rural infrastructure in Afghanistan, aiming to depopulate contested areas and undermine support for the Mujahideen.
2. Chechnya (1990s–2000s): Russian forces devastated Grozny and other cities by mass bombing of housing, power, and water networks, which many analysts describe as a strategy of collective punishment.
3. Syria (2010s–2020s): Russian air support for the Assad regime has included repeated strikes on hospitals, residential districts, and electrical infrastructure in opposition?held areas such as Aleppo and Idlib.
4. Ukraine (2022–present): Russian forces have systematically targeted power grids, hydroelectric plants, and water?supply infrastructure, causing nationwide blackouts and water shortages; this has been widely criticized as a war?crime?style tactic.

United States

1. Iraq (1991 Gulf War): The U.S.deliberately disabled power?generation and transmission infrastructure to cripple Saddam Hussein’s military and industrial base; this caused cascading failures in water?treatment and sanitation, leading to a public?health crisis. Primarily a military target
2. Iraq (2003 invasion and after): Precision strikes on power stations and command?and?control nodes again disrupted electricity for civilians, even though the stated aim was “dual?use” military?economic targets. Primarily a military target

Israel

1. 2006 Lebanon War: Israeli air and artillery strikes hit the Litani River system, multiple dams, irrigation canals, and pumping stations, significantly damaging water infrastructure in southern Lebanon; analysts argue this was partly aimed at undermining Hezbollah’s support base.
2. Gaza conflicts (multiple, 2000s–2020s): Israeli military operations have repeatedly damaged or destroyed water?treatment plants, sewage systems, and power?generation capacity in Gaza, with large?scale humanitarian consequences.

Non?state actors and insurgents

1. ISIS in Iraq (2014–2017): ISIS seized and manipulated the Mosul Dam and other water infrastructure to flood government?held areas, displace civilians, and freeze agricultural production, effectively using water as a weapon of coercion.
2. Taliban in Afghanistan: Insurgents repeatedly attacked the Kajaki Dam and associated power infrastructure, seeking control over electricity and using outages as leverage in local politics.

Other examples

1. Iran and Gulf conflicts: In recent Middle?East exchanges, Iranian?linked groups and Iranian forces have struck (or threatened to strike) power and desalination?water facilities in Bahrain and the UAE, while U.S. and regional forces have hit similar water and power infrastructure in Iran–backed areas.
2. General pattern: International bodies such as the ICRC now explicitly warn that “war on essential infrastructure is war on civilians,” reflecting how Common Article 3 and Additional Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions are being violated in modern conflicts when water, power, and sanitation systems are deliberately targeted.

that Iran now holds the strategic initiative and the war will likely end when Iran decides it wants it to end, not Trump.

Undeniable ... fiddle dee dee dum dee.

bst

Stocks set new records, the only reliable indicator,

What?

Firstly while some stocks are achieving record high this month, it's actually not a historically high number. Of 5,135 stocks evaluated just 0.5%of them were at record highs.

Once again your comprehension lets you down …..but not your outrage. If you check a little higher in the thread you will notice Rooinek asks ‘define win first’. ‘Stocks set new records’ is an answer to that question, which Rooi clearly understood.

Just so you are clear, it doesn’t mean that stocks are setting new records, merely that stocks setting new records would be an indicator that the war had been successfully concluded.

Feeling silly again? Nobody with even the slightest knowledge of the stock market would assume stocks are setting records right now,