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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Capitol assault sedition verdict raises stakes for Trump

Capitol assault sedition verdict raises stakes for Trump

Started by Denny16 REPLIES2,653 VIEWS· 01 Dec 2022, 11:28
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DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
01 Dec 2022, 11:28
#1
01 Dec 2022, 11:28#1

Acourt ruling that effectively labels the January 6, 2021 attack on the US Capitol as an anti-government rebellion raises the possibility that ex-president Donald Trump could himself be charged with sedition.


The jury conviction Tuesday of two militia leaders on charges of seditious conspiracy raised the stakes for Trump, who is under investigation over his role in fomenting the Capitol assault, which was aimed at keeping him in power after his election loss.


A House of Representatives committee and a Justice Department special counsel are separately examining Trump's role in January 6.

The committee's report is expected within weeks, and it could issue referrals for prosecution to the Justice Department.

In June Liz Cheney, the committee's Republican vice chair, said they were probing Trump for his role in "plots to commit seditious conspiracy."

Last week committee member Jamie Raskin told The Harvard Gazette that there is "undoubtedly" probable cause to believe Trump committed crimes.

The January 6 attack "flowed out of his determination to overthrow the election by any means necessary including -- ultimately -- coordinating a violent insurrection," Raskin said.

- Rare charge - 

The two Oath Keepers convicted of sedition -- group founder Stewart Rhodes and Florida chapter head Kelly Meggs -- were the first of nearly 900 people arrested over the January 6 events to be tried on the charge of seditious conspiracy.

Rarely used by prosecutors because it is politically explosive, the charge carries a prison sentence up to 20 years.

Four more Oath Keepers, and separately, members of a similar far-right group, the Proud Boys, will soon face trials on the same charge.

"Now that we have seen that juries accept this theory of seditious conspiracy, the likelihood of conviction for others has gone up," Barb McQuade, a University of Michigan law professor and former federal prosecutor, told AFP.  

McQuade said the verdict gives the Department of Justice leverage with those facing similar charges to negotiate guilty pleas and cooperate against other January 6 suspects.

"To reach Trump's inner circle, talking with those who planned the attack on the Capitol would be a great value to DOJ to help them determine whether the planning went as high as Trump or his allies," she said.

- Political case -

But it is not clear whether the Oath Keepers verdict will embolden prosecutors to go that far.

The case is unavoidably enmeshed in politics, especially after Trump announced recently that he would seek reelection in 2024.

After that, Attorney General Merrick Garland -- an appointee of Trump's rival, President Joe Biden -- named an independent special counsel, Jack Smith, to handle probes against Trump.

What is more, the Oath Keepers trial did not establish any clear link between the defendants' actions and Trump, and three of the group's members were acquitted of seditious conspiracy, although they were found guilty of other charges.

Asha Rangappa, an attorney and former FBI agent, said that means the Justice Department needs much stronger evidence to go after the ex-president.

"The legal bar... is very high" for Smith to charge Trump, she said.

Garland himself has avoided direct comment on the Trump probe.

But he stressed in a statement after the Oath Keepers verdict that the department "is committed to holding accountable those criminally responsible for the assault on our democracy on January 6, 2021."

- Public perception -

Raskin said the clearest potential charge against Trump is conspiracy to interfere with a federal proceeding, as the then president openly encouraged his followers to march on the Capitol and disrupt the session, which was being led by then-vice president Mike Pence.

"That crime seems tailor-made for precisely what Donald Trump did," Raskin told The Harvard Gazette.

But some attorneys say stopping at the charge of disrupting Congress would downplay the seriousness of what happened on January 6.

"Interfering with an official proceeding, therefore, could be only a small piece of what was wrong with Trump's conduct that day," former prosecutors Claire Finkelstein and Richard Painter wrote in The Washington Post in August.

What Trump advocated, they said, was no different from what the Oath Keepers were accused of -- seditious conspiracy and insurrection.

"It is critical for public perception, for history... that if he is charged, it is first and foremost with the crimes that best reflect the gravity of the danger he posed to the country," they said.

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Oh for the long arm of the law............slow and steady. Just the way I like it.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2022, 12:06
#2
01 Dec 2022, 12:06#2

Won 't stand the test in higher courts and the situation is bound to be reviewed by the New House - the previous story was a collection of BS allegations about an insurrection.   However, it will be appealed and the Democrats should hope it is reviewed because they will be in serious trouble with the riots they organized and funded by their terrorist subsidiaries BLM and Antifa in 2020 when 46 people were murdered by the rioters - 1 200 policemen seriously injured by mostly Molotov cocktails provided on an organized basis and $2,5 billion in damages caused by the terrorists in lootng and arson.    

1 500 rioters were arrested and the Democrats did not charge them with anything and set the prisoners free without trial.   That fiasco will also be investigated and this time around the Democrats will be in deep shit.

         

   

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2022, 12:06
#3
01 Dec 2022, 12:06#3

Duplicates

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
01 Dec 2022, 15:28
#4
01 Dec 2022, 15:28#4

LMAO..... next

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
04 Dec 2022, 20:17
#5
04 Dec 2022, 20:17#5

Justice will prevail .

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
04 Dec 2022, 20:17
#6
04 Dec 2022, 20:17#6

Justice will prevail .

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,201 posts
04 Dec 2022, 22:04
#7
04 Dec 2022, 22:04#7

Trump will go to jail that is certain. The main goal is to convict him of at least one crime, and then once he is in jail prosecute him for the remaining crimes. 

The easiest one to get him on is illegal possession of classified documents. That is up to 20 years in jail.

However, cheating in the elections is the one they really need to charge him with (e.g. fake elector scheme, trying to get Georgia to make upvotes etc, etc- a long list).
The punishment needs to fit the crime. 






MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Dec 2022, 23:34
#8
04 Dec 2022, 23:34#8

Yet another deranged Quisling post…..obsession hardly suffices. Trump will never go to jail. This was an I’ll advised protest not an attempt to overthrow the government and its being kept alive for political reasons.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
05 Dec 2022, 02:59
#9
05 Dec 2022, 02:59#9

"This was an ill advised protest........"

Of course it was.....don't we all Hmmmm? Oh we know, blame someone else not your Alter ego....like you he can do or say no wrong.

Just as he was advised about his disinfectant White House briefing......ja, you know the one where instead of disinfecting insects he in his wisdom briefed the international community on how to disinfect humans instead. Then claiming that he should have been a Doctor instead of POTUS.

Funny don't you think.....yeah I know, I can hear you laugh all the way from chilly Chicago.

Have a fat day.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Dec 2022, 06:46
#10
05 Dec 2022, 06:46#10

The fact is that a real investigation - not a Kangaro style political inquisition - is necessary in this case.   This time around the House will also enquire about the role of the FBI in this case and why the FBI did not arrest the people involved in inciting people to enter the Capitol and why the security doors were opened from the inside to allow people to enter the Capitol and who instructed to do it.  Also why Pelosi refused the offer to deploy the NDF to protect the Capitol in case of possible riots by elements incited by irresponsible people.   There is a lot of unanswered questions about the issue and those will be dealt with by the new judicially based processes investigation based on extensive video security films and documentation where people giving evidence would be allowed to have their lawyers present and be questioned by members - something entirely absent from the present hearings/political show-trials.

The new House Committee will have acceptance of Democrat representatives nominated by them - unlike the present hearings when Pelosi changed the membership from 4 Democrats and 3 Republicans as approve in the motion to appoint the Committee by the House - to 5 Democrats and 2 Republicans and where she refused to accept the Republican Party nominees and chose her own  nominees from that Party - none of whom is in the House anymore.    The only person that will not be allowed to serve on the new Committee will be Adam Schiff because he lied about issues consistently and is a totally corrupt individual anyway.   The other member not allowed to serve on any House Committee would be Swalwell - who has security problems after he slept with a Chinese spy and is a known security risk - as well as Omar.   All three will be excluded from Committee membership based on the precedent set by Pelosi in dealing with Committe membership.        The Democrats will have themselves to blame for what they did in the past when it came to handling of issues by the new House.     

Lying to the House and refusal to answer questions by the FBI, Homeland Security and Justice Department frequently done in the past - will be dealt with and punished by the House.   The  one method is to lay impeachment charges against them and refuse to fund the salaries of guilty people by excluding them from budgetary provisions.   For instance the use of the Gulf Steam jet provided to the FBI to deal with potential terrorism issues is a serious problem when Ward used it to  take his family on holiday and walked out of the Senate Hearing to get away from answering questions with the excuse that he has prior issues to be dealt with - the prior issues turned out to be leaving to go on holiday.

                                  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Dec 2022, 06:50
#11
05 Dec 2022, 06:50#11

SB 

You live on Cloud 9 with BS spreading on issues that will never happen.   The charge story is a myth,    The Democrats have not been able to find anything to charge Trump with and investigations advertised in the fake media has produced nothing.  So keep it up - you stupidity is really funny.     

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
06 Dec 2022, 15:58
#12
06 Dec 2022, 15:58#12

Trump needs to be very careful bringing the constitution into this whole Twitter / Hunter Biden debacle....


AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
06 Dec 2022, 18:56
#13
06 Dec 2022, 18:56#13

Oh well three folks got their "Trump morning hard-on" that's about all these posting are about.

Shame.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2022, 22:08
#14
06 Dec 2022, 22:08#14

DA

Your above comments puzzle me.   Trump had at this stage nothing to do with the issue - it is going to end up as in a House investigation of the involvement of the FBI and DNC, as well as Congress members in freedom of speech oppression is in evidence.   It could get ugly and ends up in Court where Trump will inevitably be involved - but that is not an issue at present.         

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2022, 22:08
#15
06 Dec 2022, 22:08#15

DA

Your above comments puzzle me.   Trump had at this stage nothing to do with the issue - it is going to end up as in a House investigation of the involvement of the FBI and DNC, as well as Congress members in freedom of speech oppression is in evidence.   It could get ugly and ends up in Court where Trump will inevitably be involved - but that is not an issue at present.         

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
07 Dec 2022, 09:01
#16
07 Dec 2022, 09:01#16

"DA

Your above comments puzzle me"


Simple Mike..... this is the message that Trump posted on social media recently.

“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,”

Some will argue about what Trump actually meant by this post on social media recently , and I understand that......but he is playing a dangerous game given what has happened in the past and how people could receive or perceive this message of his.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
07 Dec 2022, 09:09
#17
07 Dec 2022, 09:09#17

https://www.axios.com/2022/12/05/elon-musk-trump-twitter-files-constitution

New Twitter owner and CEO Elon Musk doesn't appear to be a fan of former President Trump's response to the "Twitter files" release late last week.

Driving the news: "The Constitution is greater than any President," Musk tweeted in response to a Fox News article on Trump calling to toss out parts of the Constitution. "End of story," Musk added.

The "Twitter Files," which were tweeted out by newsletter author Matt Taibbi, were released by Musk after he gained control of Twitter, Axios' Scott Rosenberg reported on Friday.

  • They cite internal documents surrounding Twitter's controversial decision to block access to limit access ahead of the 2020 elections to a New York Post article about the contents of Hunter Biden's laptop.
  • Trump reacted to the news on Saturday, posting unsubstantiated voter fraud claims on Truth Social and saying they justified junking parts of the Constitution.

Zoom out: Musk is backing Republicans in upcoming elections, and says he prefers Gov. Ron DeSantis for president in 2024.


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