Conservatives are happier than Woke Folk

Based on numerous studies and surveys, particularly in the United States,

right-wing (conservative) people generally report higher levels of happiness, life satisfaction, and positive mental healthcompared to left-wing (liberal/progressive) people. This "happiness gap" has been consistently observed in the U.S. since the 1970s.

However, this is not a universal rule, as the gap can shrink depending on context, and some studies suggest the difference lies more in how people report their feelings rather than in actual emotional states.

Here is a breakdown of why this disparity exists, according to research:

Reasons Why Conservatives Often Report Greater Happiness

1. Rationalization of Inequality: Conservatives are more likely to justify the existing social, economic, and political order, which acts as a buffer against the negative emotions caused by income inequality or societal injustice.
2. Higher Rates of Marriage and Family: Conservatives are more likely to be married, stay married, and report higher levels of marital satisfaction, all of which are strongly correlated with happiness.
3. Religiosity and Community: Higher levels of religious faith and participation in faith communities among conservatives provide social support, a sense of purpose, and a positive framework for interpreting life events.
4. Personal Agency and Optimism: Conservatives generally report a higher sense of personal control (agency) over their lives and greater optimism, which contributes to higher self-reported life satisfaction.
5. Political Context: The happiness gap tends to be smaller or nonexistent during Democratic presidencies, notes researcher Darby Saxbe, suggesting that when a person's "lot" is in power, they are happier.

Reasons for Lower Reported Happiness Among Left-Wing People

1. Greater Awareness of Injustice: Liberals are more likely to focus on social injustices and systemic problems, which can lead to higher levels of worry, cynicism, and unhappiness.
2. Lower Religious Participation: Lower levels of religiosity mean less access to the traditional, built-in social support systems that foster contentment.
3. Higher Rates of Depression Diagnosis: Data indicates that people with diagnosed depression cluster on the left side of the political spectrum.
4. "Psychologically Rich" Lives: While less conventionally happy, studies suggest that liberals often lead more "psychologically rich" lives, characterized by new experiences and learning.

Why follow a path that will make you unhappy. This is an especially pertinent question for our Woke friends. At least many conservatives could argue the next life could be the pay off. But if you don’t believe in a next life, why not have some fun?

There is an underlying religious character to much of the Left Wing outrage. These are the personalities who 5 centuries ago would have burned people as witches. But if there’s no religion, what is the over arching objective, other than making the most of this highly unlikely experience…life?

When I was 3-years old, I believed in Santa Claus. Yes, it did make me happy, or perhaps superficially happy. However, I would not want to use God as a crutch to make me happy or to pray to him for forgiveness.

Many want to leave the religious stuff behind, as part of the old world. America still has lots of religious people. I would put a conservative and religious-conservative in different buckets. Conservatism will always exist - I can't say the same about religious conservatives.

‘Many want to leave the religious stuff behind, as part of the old world. America still has lots of religious people’

In Europe this desire seems to give Islam a pass, Allow them to have their own customs, dress, social habits and laws….but if a Christian tries that, condemn him as a religious zealot.

A bit hypocritical .

That is woke-ism - favouring the minority over the majority. However, I think it fair to say that most in Europe do not want more Middle East fundamentalists - I certainly dont

However, I think it fair to say that most in Europe do not want more Middle East fundamentalists - I certainly don

I find it interesting that you seem overly pre-occupied with preserving with what you perceive to be European civilization but you're not actually European.

I live in Europe, and I am descended from Europe, as are all white people. It is part of my heritage, and I choose not to live in the Middle East. It was not that long ago when South Africa was a Dutch and then British colony, so we have cultural ties with these countries.

The Great Replacement countries need to slow down their population growth or remain in their own lands. I, along with most people, supported refugees until the Great Replacement.

While Christians can be annoying, they have far fewer fundamentalists. Catholics are liberals compared to Islam.

To those in Europe who do not mind their future generations being replaced, you may change your mind once the numbers go up. Once there are enough voters for a Muslim party, you will see the true meaning of far-right.

Well said Shark. Notice the arrogant language of our Irish colleague. You aren’t preoccupied with European culture. You are preoccupied with what you perceive as European culture. Why, because you’re not actually European.

& don't forget the Maga quest to make America whiter again.

I live in Europe, and I am descended from Europe, as are all white people. It is part of my heritage,

So not actually European then.

It's not very nice to be on the receiving end is it?

It was not that long ago when South Africa was a Dutch and then British colony, so we have cultural ties with these countries.

Wasn't almost the entire continent of Africa at some point or another a colony of some European power?

The Great Replacement countries need to slow down their population growth or remain in their own lands.

I, along with most people, supported refugees until the Great Replacement.

You're generally quite good at spotting the bullshit coming out of the far right, but you really want to believe in this one don't you. The Great Replacement is a nonsense racist bullshit conspiracy, it should be beneath you to even use the term in a serious conversation.

And no you didn't support refugees until the Great Replacement came along because the Great Replacement theory was first articulated back in 2010 before the European migrant and refugee crisis started. All that's happened is the theory has grown in popularity so you think its more acceptable to believe in it now but it's still as bullshit now as was back then.

While Christians can be annoying, they have far fewer fundamentalists.

I'd agree they have fewer but your also over estimating the number of Islamic fundamentalists.

Catholics are liberals compared to Islam.

Yet Muslims tends to vote left wing. Historically in the UK Muslims have voted Labour, though there was shift away from then in the last election as a backlash to their stance on the War in Gaza, but they didn't shift right, it was towards independents. London has a Muslim mayor and supported same sex marriage. The people protesting in Iran want rid of the fundamentalists.

To those in Europe who do not mind their future generations being replaced, you may change your mind once the numbers go up. Once there are enough voters for a Muslim party, you will see the true meaning of far-right.

Future generations are not being replaced. We already have Muslim parties in Europe, one simply called ISLAM in Belgium does it indeed campaign on wanting to make Belgium an Islamic state. Yet despite running candidates in various local and federal elections they typically get under 2% of the vote and often less half of 1%. There most successful election saw them on 4% of the vote. Yet they run candidates in area's with far high Muslim populations, some between 25-40%, if Muslims are so much more fundamentalist why was their vote share so low?

Well said Shark. Notice the arrogant language of our Irish colleague. You aren’t preoccupied with European culture. You are preoccupied with what you perceive as European culture. Why, because you’re not actually European.

I was baiting Shark. But you also couldn't help but take the bait as well. My personal belief is that if you obtain citizenship of a European country you're then European. I don't care where you originally come from, your skin colour or your religion.

You all seem to have no issue commenting on what is and isn't European culture and who and who isn't European but when a native born European comments in a manner that your don't like, that's arrogance?

Truth is that its very hard to actually perceive European culture even as a native European, because the individual countries of Europe are culturally very distinct.

The Great Replacement as a whole is a conspiracy story, but the number are not.

So not actually European then .I t's not very nice to be on the receiving end is it?

You just said later in your post that everyone who moves to Europe is now European, so which one is it? If someone does not agree with you, they are not European?

South Africa welcomed many Europeans, including Irish people. (During and before Apartheid). A far better welcome than you would get under a black majority country).

Wasn't almost the entire continent of Africa at some point or another a colony of some European power?

Yes.

You're generally quite good at spotting the bullshit coming out of the far right, but you really want to believe in this one don't you. The Great Replacement is a nonsense racist bullshit conspiracy, it should be beneath you to even use the term in a serious conversation.

What is Bullshit is that it is a master plan by the globalists. What is not bullshit is the increasing numbers, or the fact that these countries are by far the fastest growing population in the world- perhaps ever. Average birth rate of over 4.0 in the third-world, while it is 1.6 in developed countries

And no you didn't support refugees until the Great Replacement came along because the Great Replacement theory was first articulated back in 2010 before the European migrant and refugee crisis started. All that's happened is the theory has grown in popularity so you think its more acceptable to believe in it now but it's still as bullshit now as was back then.

I see the increasing numbers (.e.g. 2000 small boat migrants in one day - as well as increasing fake student visas that change visa to refugee when they get here).

My definition of the Great replacement - is that the native population sizes are shrinking in the developed world, but rising rapidly in the "developing" world. I am using the "Great Replacement" as tongue and check for this status quo.

I expect civil wars in developing world to increase due to population growth outstripping economic. No country can sustain this economic growth.

I'd agree they have fewer but your also over estimating the number of Islamic fundamentalists.

Even 1-4 % is too high. However name a Muslim majority country with a liberal government.

From what I can see they are all run by far-right religious zealots - or just authoritarians masquerading as religious people.

Yet Muslims tends to vote left wing. Historically in the UK Muslims have voted Labour, though there was shift away from then in the last election as a backlash to their stance on the War in Gaza, but they didn't shift right, it was towards independents. London has a Muslim mayor and supported same sex marriage. The people protesting in Iran want rid of the fundamentalists.

Exactly. It is a relationship of convenience, but as you have shown - they will support Islam over Left ideologies. The work rate of Muslims is lower than any other ethnic groups, so the left wing options are better for them - for now. However, if their numbers get higher - we can expect them to move further right.

Future generations are not being replaced. We already have Muslim parties in Europe, one simply called ISLAM in Belgium does it indeed campaign on wanting to make Belgium an Islamic state.

So you want those 1-2% of Muslims in the country? (or 4% in your other example). If the numbers of Muslims increase, this % will increase.

Yet despite running candidates in various local and federal elections they typically get under 2% of the vote and often less half of 1%. There most successful election saw them on 4% of the vote. Yet they run candidates in area's with far high Muslim populations, some between 25-40%, if Muslims are so much more fundamentalist why was their vote share so low? Their numbers are currently too low, they are not going to win any near-term elections.

I was baiting Shark. But you also couldn't help but take the bait as well. My personal belief is that if you obtain citizenship of a European country you're then European. I don't care where you originally come from, your skin colour or your religion. You just said that I was not European.

You all seem to have no issue commenting on what is and isn't European culture and who and who isn't European but when a native born European comments in a manner that your don't like, that's arrogance?

My opinion is shared by the Democratic majority. Even many on the left want to stop the small boats. Parties like AFD are running one campaign issue - and they are currently leading German polls. The France far-right party is probably going to win the next French Election. People can see the increasing numbers, and that if action is not taken they will eventually become the minority in their own countries. European countries with stricter border controls, seem to have less prominent far-right political parties.

Truth is that its very hard to actually perceive European culture even as a native European, because the individual countries of Europe are culturally very distinct.

Not distinct enough to all agree that the numbers of Muslim illegal immigrants converting into refugees is just going to keep increasing.

Refugees around the world number around 200 million, and is expected to exceed a billion within the next 25 years. Countries like Niger population growth will increase by 160% in the next 25 years. No economy can handle anything near that level of population growth, so it is enviable refugees and illegal immigrants will continue to increase.

Developing countries populations are in decline, while Muslim countries and African countries have rapidly increasing population sizes. This is going to lead to increasing civil wars, which will lead to rising refugee crisis.

China used to have an average IQ in the 80's - but are now over 105%. The temporary 1 child policy helped increase average IQ. Now without this cap, China along with other developed countries have a much lower rate of birth. In Africa many kids have never met their father. Any marketing template for Charity, will usually have kids starving in Africa- abandoned by their parents.

Key Data from South Africa

South Africa, with the most detailed surveys, reports high father absence among Black children due to labour migration, unemployment, and historical apartheid effects.

1. Statistics South Africa data shows only 31.7-35.6% of Black children live with biological fathers; thus, 64.4-68.3% do not.
2. General Household Surveys (2016-2017) indicate 61.8-64.1% of children under 18 have absent biological fathers (alive but not co-resident, plus deceased).?

(Apartheid was only in South Africa, so to blame Apartheid for the rest of Africa seems far-fetched).

I do think under current laws combined with changes in world population could lead to a situation when non-ethnic Europeans could become the minority. This is the major appeal of the far-right.

It is not mathematically possible for a far right issue to win a Democratic election, wihich requires a majority. So this topic is not really far right if the Democratic consensus (mainstream) is to reduce illegal immigrants etc.

The Great Replacement as a whole is a conspiracy story, but the number are not.

No the numbers are bullshit as well. You have to make assumptions decades into the future about migration patterns and birth rates as well as assume migrants won't assimilate and that an overwhelming majority of Muslims want to covert European countries into Islamist states at their earliest opportunity.

You just said later in your post that everyone who moves to Europe is now European, so which one is it? If someone does not agree with you, they are not European?

No I didn't say that, I said people who become citizens of a European country become European. Not all immigrants do that, many go back home after a few years.

And not saying that if you disagree with me your not European. I was merely demonstrating how unpleasant it is for people to use arbitrary reasons to claim someone can't be European but it race or religious. Albania is over 50% Muslim...are they not a true European country?. Can Muslims not be European? If in your opinion think Muslims are generally in compatible with European culture would I or someone else not be entitled to think the same about South Africans. Gasp you lot have cheerleaders at rugby games, disgusting!

Yes.

Which means many of them also have cultural ties to Europe.

What is Bullshit is that it is a master plan by the globalists. What is not bullshit is the increasing numbers, or the fact that these countries are by far the fastest growing population in the world- perhaps ever. Average birth rate of over 4.0 in the third-world, while it is 1.6 in developed countries

Did you even check what your saying. Average birth rate in indeed 4.0 in Africa and 3.0 in the Middle East but they are down considerable from the peak in 1950 in Africa and than the 1970's in the Middle East. Both are declining, with the middle east birth rate in decline rapidly. Birth rates of migrant Muslim in Europe also tend to decline and match native birth rates within a generation or two because they are affected by the same issues that are causing birth rates to decline among the natives.

I see the increasing numbers (.e.g. 2000 small boat migrants in one day - as well as increasing fake student visas that change visa to refugee when they get here).

Small both crossings only make a small % of total migration into the UK. If you look at net migration into the UK it dropped notably in 2024 and massively in 2025.

My definition of the Great replacement - is that the native population sizes are shrinking in the developed world, but rising rapidly in the "developing" world.

I expect civil wars to increase due to population growth outstripping economic.

You should really use some other term for your theory then. Great Replacement has too much baggage.

Even 1-4 % is too high. However name a Muslim majority country with a liberal government.

From what I can see they are run by far-right religious zealots.

We don't have any numbers to say how many are what you could call fundamentalists or extremists but its only a tiny minority that resort to violence. Türkiye, Tunisia, Albania. Now these wouldn't necessarily be what you would call liberal democracies but they are not run by far-right religious zealots and some have relatively secular societies, some have protections for women's rights and LGBT people.

Exactly. It is a relationship of convenience, but as you have shown - they will support Islam over Left ideologies. The work rate of Muslims is lower than any other ethnic groups, so the left wing options are better for them - for now. However, if their numbers get higher - we can expect them to move further right.

So opposing genocide is supporting Islam over left ideologies?. I think you will find that the left was in general more opposed to Israel's action in Gaza than the right was. The majority of the European public

was against Israel's action in Gaza.

And what are the primary reasons Muslims have lower work rates than natives?. Discrimination, racism and over qualification perhaps, or do you just think they lazy louts?

And are you implying Labour the party of emm Labourers is the party lazy people vote for?

So you want those 1-2% of Muslims in the country? (or 4% in your other example). If the numbers of Muslims increase, this % will increase.

Okay so double the Muslim population and they get 8% of the vote. Ohh scary.

Their numbers are currently too low, they are not going to win any near-term elections.

Ah so you know their secretly waiting on mass to vote for an Islamic state?

You just said that I was not European

I wasn't serious, I was trying demonstrate to you what's like to be defined who and what you are by others.

My opinion is shared by the Democratic majority. Even many on the left want to stop the small boats. Parties like AFD are running one campaign issue - and they are currently leading German polls. The France far-right party is probably going to win the next French Election. People can see the increasing numbers, and that if action is not taken they will eventually become the minority in their own countries.

It might be the present majority and yes many on the left do want a reduction in small boats as well. But the sentiment is a product of hyper attention of the right wing media in the UK who constantly amplify an issue that most people have no direct experience of. Replacement is a lie plain and simple. Scare mongering by populists and racists.

Not distinct enough to all agree that the numbers of Muslim illegal immigrants converting into refugees is just going to keep increasing

Now your conflating anti immigrant sentiment with anti Muslim sentiment.

Refugees around the world number around 200 million, and is expected to exceed a billion within the next 25 years. Countries like Niger expected will increase by 160% in the next 25 years. No economy can handle anything near that level of growth, so it is enviable refugees and illegal immigrants will continue to increase.

In 2024 total global applications for asylum by Nigeran's was just 36,934 and that's coming from a country with a population of 236 million. And 74% of them were rejected because as Nigeria is not at war is a relatively stable country hence most were economic migrants and therefore rejected. The UK has a returns agreement with Nigeria as well so there is no issues sending them back. Overall Nigerians make up well under 1% of refugees arriving in Europe and the other thing is Nigeria is 45% Christian so no Nigeria is not going lead to a flood of Muslim asylum seekers into Europe in the future.

I was baiting Shark. But you also couldn't help but take the bait as well. My personal belief is that if you obtain citizenship of a European country you're then European. I don't care where you originally come from, your skin colour or your religion.

Yes I believe you Anger you were baiting….except you just keep repeating the bait. Slightly different angle……Anger doesn’t care where you come from. Maybe Katagum, you are a European. You get it….being a European.

But if you grew up in Cape Town and only visit Europe, you have no chance of grasping the subtleties of modern Europe,

Anger doesn’t care where you come from. Maybe Katagum, you are a European. You get it….being a European.

No I don't care where you from, if you gain citizenship which usually involves living several years in that country you intend to obtain citizenship and go through the process of applying and obtaining citizenship. That effectively makes you an European citizen, but you're probably really going appreciate the culture of the country your living in because as I said European countries are cultural quite distinct.

But if you grew up in Cape Town and only visit Europe, you have no chance of grasping the subtleties of modern Europe,

Well yes your not going grasp the subtleties of modern Europe just by visiting Europe. You will get a taste of the culture of the country your visiting but it takes longer than a visit.

"Well yes your not going grasp the subtleties of modern Europe just by visiting Europe. You will get a taste of the culture of the country your visiting but it takes longer than a visit."

That has been my experience.

Well it’s nice your Gimp agrees Anger. But I’m willing to bet, because of all the cultural links, a person from CT will have more appreciation for the culture than somebody from Katagum 20 years after they go through your indoctrination.

No the numbers are bullshit as well. You have to make assumptions decades into the future about migration patterns and birth rates as well as assume migrants won't assimilate and that an overwhelming majority of Muslims want to covert European countries into Islamist states at their earliest opportunity.

If you are going to challenge my numbers, can you provide sources instead of making your own assumptions to debunk numbers based on global research?

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/expected-refugee-increase-from-Z5_Gp.OVQhCTY.O9FdBbAA#0

I can't speculate on what % want to convert Europe into an Islamic state, but I do know that the more Muslims that are here, the higher the percentage of the country's population that wants to convert to Islam.

Albania is over 50% Muslim...are they not a true European country?.

Albania have one of the highest crime and deporation rate in the UK

Gasp you lot have cheerleaders at rugby games, disgusting!

I like the cheerleaders.

Did you even check what your saying. Average birth rate in indeed 4.0 in Africa and 3.0 in the Middle East but they are down considerable from the peak in 1950 in Africa and than the 1970's in the Middle East. Both are declining, with the middle east birth rate in decline rapidly.

Stav, you need to do more research before challenging an argument. To sustain a population size, a birth rate of 2.1 is required. Anything less means the population is declining. Anything more means the population is growing. These are accepted facts.

A birth rate of 4 means that the population is nearly doubling in size. (That is hardly shrinking)

Birth rates of migrant Muslim in Europe also tend to decline and match native birth rates within a generation or two because they are affected by the same issues that are causing birth rates to decline among the natives.

That is partially true; however, in the UK, the Muslim Birth rate is 2.4%, and the Native White birth rate is 1.4% (Almost half). So based on the 2.1% sustaining number, Mulsims are increasing and white people are decreasing

Small both crossings only make a small % of total migration into the UK. If you look at net migration into the UK it dropped notably in 2024 and massively in 2025.

Not sure what this has to do with the argument. Sure, arriving by plane is just as bad - but I did comment on student to refugee visas.

You should really use some other term for your theory then. Great Replacement has too much baggage.

I like the same Great Replacement as it is emotive.

We don't have any numbers to say how many are what you could call fundamentalists or extremists but its only a tiny minority that resort to violence. Türkiye, Tunisia, Albania.

These are outliers, but we also do not need to be replaced by them - Albania in particular (see past comments. Around 2015 the EU was considering making Turkey part of the EU, and that helped Farage and others with Brexit.

So opposing genocide is supporting Islam over left ideologies?. I think you will find that the left was in general more opposed to Israel's action in Gaza than the right was. The majority of the European public was against Israel's action in Gaza.

Yes, but the Arabs struck first, which was also genocide. Had they the means, they would have done a lot more damage than killing a few thousand people or taking them hostage.

At the start, everyone supported Israel, but as things got worse, like civilian building, that support dwindled.

It is easy to sit from the outside, imagine being in Israel's situation, being surrounded by Arabs who see Israel as the promised land and want to wipe Israeli's off the face of the earth. I dont see many Arabs standing up for Israel.

And what are the primary reasons Muslims have lower work rates than natives?. Discrimination, racism and over qualification perhaps, or do you just think they lazy louts?

Over 70% of Somalians do not work. It could be a combination of all those factors - except overqualification. Any job is better than social security - unless you have lots of kids

And are you implying Labour the party of emm Labourers is the party lazy people vote for?

There is no doubt that for people of any race who do not work, it is a better deal from a left-wing party.

Okay so double the Muslim population and they get 8% of the vote. Ohh scary.

They have no Democratic path at the moment, but their numbers are increasing

Their numbers are currently too low, they are not going to win any near-term elections.

Ah so you know they're secretly waiting on mass to vote for an Islamic state?

No, but I can see that most Muslim Countries are run by an Islamic State.

Their is also economic benefits that would favour Sharia Law etc.

It might be the present majority and yes many on the left do want a reduction in small boats as well. But the sentiment is a product of hyper attention of the right wing media in the UK who constantly amplify an issue that most people have no direct experience of. Replacement is a lie plain and simple. Scare mongering by populists and racists.

Even if the population size only gets to 30% Muslim, that is not what the majority want.

Immigration is fine if it is a 2-way street. A give-and-take relationship. If it is just one-way traffic, it is just a "Great Replacement".

Now your conflating anti immigrant sentiment with anti Muslim sentiment.

The sentiment is higher amongst black and Arabs. I would say the least favourability ratings are for Muslims

In 2024 total global applications for asylum by Nigeran's was just 36,934 and that's coming from a country with a population of 236 million. And 74% of them were rejected because as Nigeria is not at war is a relatively stable country hence most were economic migrants and therefore rejected. The UK has a returns agreement with Nigeria as well so there is no issues sending them back. Overall Nigerians make up well under 1% of refugees arriving in Europe and the other thing is Nigeria is 45% Christian so no Nigeria is not going lead to a flood of Muslim asylum seekers into Europe in the future.

You have cherry-picked one country.

As above, the way things stand, Africa and the Muslim majority countries have rapidly growing populations, which will lead to civil war, and more people seeking refugee migration.

The numbers are increasing, as anything above 2.1% means population growth

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/create-a-table-of-the-countrie-ujJzW04WQ1Wej6TfNWMSTA#0

If you are going to challenge my numbers, can you provide sources instead of making your own assumptions to debunk numbers based on global research?

So wait you have numbers based on global research that indicate that Europe as a whole or certain European countries are going to be majority Muslim?

The most credible research we have indicates that 2050 Muslims will make up 10-14% of the population of Europe depending on high or low migration levels. No country in Europe other than the already majority Muslim Albania is predicted to become majority Muslim by then with Sweden being the highest at around 30%. Most countries will be in the range of between 10-20%.

There isn't really any credible research after 2050 because it becomes there is too much uncertainty regarding fertility rates, migration rates and secularization rates.

Probably the most well known research into Muslim population growth was the one done by Pew but even if your to assume their highest projected Muslim growth they have 2050 would continue for another 100 years from now you still have no additional majority Muslim countries in Europe.

Albania have one of the highest crime and deporation rate in the UK

There is no research to indicate that Albanian's have one of the highest crime rates in the UK, the UK does not provide data on crime by nationality for most offences. Yes Albanian's have a high deportation rate, because Albania is considered a safe country by the UK, hence their asylum applications tend to be rejected and they can be returned quicker and easier. The deportation rate is not linked to crime. And by the way Albania is only just a majority Muslim population at 50.67%, so if an Albania does commit a crime there is almost a even chance that he wasn't a Muslim.

I like the cheerleaders.

Meh.

Stav, you need to do more research before challenging an argument. To sustain a population size, a birth rate of 2.1 is required. Anything less means the population is declining. Anything more means the population is growing. These are accepted facts.

Yes I'm aware of the birth rate needed to sustain population growth and that number is 2.1, are you aware that Europe's population is projected to decline both with and without immigration?

A birth rate of 4 means that the population is nearly doubling in size. (That is hardly shrinking)

Your conflating birth rates, with population growth. I didn't say population's in those regions was shrinking they are growing, but at a reduced rate (for example Africa's birth rate in the 1950's use to be 6.5) The birth rates are trending down everywhere even in countries with expanding populations.

You also made the claim "or the fact that these countries are by far the fastest growing population in the world- perhaps ever" but this isn't true as both population growth in Africa and the Middle East are below their peaks of 2013 in Africa (2.3-4% growth versus the peak of 2.6%) and the 20th century for the Middle East (2% population growth versus the peak of 3.0). The rate of population growth is on a gradual decline in both regions

And just in general World population growth is slowing. it peaked at round 2.2% since the late 1960's and has since declined to under growth of under 1% with the worlds global population is expected to peak in 2085 at over 10 billion people.

That is partially true; however, in the UK, the Muslim Birth rate is 2.4%, and the Native White birth rate is 1.4% (Almost half). So based on the 2.1% sustaining number, Mulsims are increasing and white people are decreasing

But that's not a permanent situation Muslim birth rates are gradually converging on the native birth rate. They may remain slightly above the native population, but it's already been observed than 2nd generation Muslims have significantly lower birth rates than the first generation that migrated. This same pattern has been observed multiple times in the past by different migrant groups.

Not sure what this has to do with the argument. Sure, arriving by plane is just as bad - but I did comment on student to refugee visas.

Emm you brought up the boats. What do you mean arriving by plane is just as bad, far fewer asylum seekers arrive by plane than by boat. If your referring to students attempting to gain refugee status, its also considerable lower than those applying for it after crossing over by boat.

Point is and this is backed up recent YouGov polling, many Europeans think illegal immigrants make up a far greater share of total immigration than they actually do. In the UK for example 32% of the population think there is far more illegal immigrants than their is illegal, 15% think there was somewhat more illegal immigrants than legal immigrants, 8% thought it was about the same, 12% said they didn't know and 14% thought legal migrants made up a somewhat greater proportion of total migrants. Just 19% correctly said legal immigration made up the bulk of immigrant in the UK. Its not even close, legal immigration is 20-40 times bigger than illegal immigration.

This is why the obsession with illegal immigration and asylum seekers is pointless, even if you drastically reduce it or stop it completely over concerns about demographic changes your only making a small reduction in the overall scheme of things.

I like the same Great Replacement as it is emotive.

People will just think your a far right racist nutter.

These are outliers, but we also do not need to be replaced by them - Albania in particular (see past comments. Around 2015 the EU was considering making Turkey part of the EU, and that helped Farage and others with Brexit.

Oh give it a rest with the replacement stuff.

What the problem with Albania again, the country with (checks notes) a lower crime rate than the UK, France or Ireland?

As for Türkiye they applied to join the EU back in 1999 and its been stuck in limbo ever since with no realistic prospect of them joining any time soon, but yes that little weasel Farage did exploit it by implying that the EU was about to flooded with 75-80 million Turks as if they entire country was just going to empty out into Europe the moment it got in.

But hey what right would Türkiye ever have to join the EU with (checks notes) part of their country actually being in Europe.

Yes, but the Arabs struck first, which was also genocide. Had they the means, they would have done a lot more damage than killing a few thousand people or taking them hostage.

At the start, everyone supported Israel, but as things got worse, like civilian building, that support dwindled.

It is easy to sit from the outside, imagine being in Israel's situation, being surrounded by Arabs who see Israel as the promised land and want to wipe Israeli's off the face of the earth. I dont see many Arabs standing up for Israel.

Technically it wasn't genocide, the goals of the Hamas attack, was to disrupt the status quo, take hostages for leverage, disrupt middle east diplomacy between Israel and other Arab states, demonstrate its capabilities and perhaps trigger a wider regional war. They never had the means to conduct a full scale genocide. Now it's probably some member of Hamas would want to commit genocide or kill far more Israeli's than they actually did, but its pretty clear by now the same came be said about some on the Israeli side and they unlike Hamas do have the capability to commit it and probably did carry out genocidal acts.

It's easy to sit from the outside and just ignore all the suffering and humiliations that Israel has inflicted on the Palestinian's over decades as well. Tens of thousands arrested and detained without trial, no control over you're own air, sea or land borders, zero economic prospects as a result of the blockade, land constantly being stolen from them, etc etc. Israel is no longer surrounded by enemies who seek it's destruction. Jordan shot down Iranian missiles aimed at Israel, the new leader in Syria has sought friendly relations with Israel, the Israeli's ignore him and bombed Syria multiple times. Israel Egypt relations are somewhat strained over the Gaza conflict but there is no indication what so ever than Egypt is actively pursing confrontation with Israel, which leaves just Lebanon where Hezbollah have partial control but the official government are actually in the process of trying to disarm them at the moment (see how that goes). So surrounded by Arabs that want to see Israel destroyed, nah your couple of decades behind the times.

You don't see many countries standing up for Israel period, because they are led by a bunch of war criminals and they have stealing Palestinian land for decades.

The irony is your worried about a non existent Muslim take over of Europe but your backing the side that is actually taking over Muslim territory by force.

Over 70% of Somalians do not work. It could be a combination of all those factors - except overqualification. Any job is better than social security - unless you have lots of kids

No Somalians do lack skills and education hence the difficulty in finding employment for them. But then again it's hard to argue that Somalian's aren't valid refugees when the country is one of least developed countries in the world where large parts of the country are controlled by violent militants and the country is also plagued by droughts.

There is no doubt that for people of any race who do not work, it is a better deal from a left-wing party.

Yet Labour intend to cut spending on social welfare by £1.9 Billion by 2030 and their has been no increase in unemployment benefits.

They have no Democratic path at the moment, but their numbers are increasing

There numbers are increasing but by no where near enough to get a majority and at that you can only guess how many of them would want to leave in an Islamic state.

No, but I can see that most Muslim Countries are run by an Islamic State.

Well yes, they have been like that for a long while. But has it occurred to you that the reason some Muslims emigrate is so they don't have to live in an Islamic State? Your also assuming Muslims won't secularize over time living in secular countries.

Even if the population size only gets to 30% Muslim, that is not what the majority want.

Immigration is fine if it is a 2-way street. A give-and-take relationship. If it is just one-way traffic, it is just a "Great Replacement".

It is a give and take, we give immigrates safe environments to work and prosper in, they prop up our economies as the native population gets older. The health care system in the UK and Ireland would completely collapse without immigrants.

Farage says he wants net zero migration. That's going create a £37 billion black hole that will require major tax raises.

The public needs to be told what the consequences will be in reducing immigration.

The sentiment is higher amongst black and Arabs. I would say the least favourability ratings are for Muslims

That's most likely true, but the question is are those sentiments fair?

You have cherry-picked one country.

You've brought up Nigeria several times in the past. Now that I've provided that additional information I assume you're not going bring them up again?

As above, the way things stand, Africa and the Muslim majority countries have rapidly growing populations, which will lead to civil war, and more people seeking refugee migration.

The numbers are increasing, as anything above 2.1% means population growth

There growing but not as rapidly as they once where and that rate is set to gradually decline over time.

Population growth can contribute to civil wars but doesn't cause them on its own, if you have large numbers of unemployed young people with no economic prospects yes that can be a recipe for disaster but that's not necessarily the case for all of Africa or the Middle East. GDP growth projections for Africa are better than the EU's for the next 10 years (yes I know that's coming from a lower starting point), likewise with the Middle East. I'm not saying immigration and refugees is going to go away entirely and their won't be new conflicts but population growth in Africa/Middle East is not a guarantee of new mass waves of immigration.

@Stav,

Muslims are projected to become the majority in Birmingham in 10 years... The Great Replacement has conquered it.

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/create-radical-makeup-of-birmi-rDsOi0hLSP..EYGayfMpYw#0

Why is the Muslim population growing faster than the native white British in Birmingham?

The Muslim population in Birmingham has grown much faster than the White British population due to higher fertility rates, ongoing immigration, and younger age demographics among Muslim communities. White British residents, in contrast, have experienced below-replacement fertility, net emigration, and an ageing population structure.

Key Growth Drivers

1. Fertility Differentials: Muslim families average 2.5-3 children per woman versus 1.5-1.7 for White British, driven by cultural and religious factors.

1. Immigration Patterns: Large inflows from Pakistan, Bangladesh, and, more recently Middle Eastern and African countries have boosted Muslim numbers, with Birmingham as a key settlement hub since the 1960s.

1. Age Profile: Muslims have a median age around 28 (vs. 38 for White British), amplifying natural population increase through births.
2. 
   

Comparative Trends

By 2025 estimates, Muslims reached ~32% of Birmingham's population. These shifts reflect national UK trends but are accelerated locally by Birmingham's economic pull for migrants.

Muslims are projected to become the majority in Birmingham in 10 years... The Great Replacement has conquered it.

Emm no there not.

I asked Perxplexity

Is Birmingham projected to be majority Muslim by 2050?

Response

Short answer: No definitive projection shows Birmingham becoming a Muslim-majority city by 2050, though Muslims are a large and growing share of the population.

Context and nuance:

1. Birmingham’s 2021 census data show Muslims making up about 29–30% of the city’s residents, a substantial minority but not a majority.
2. Population shares can change due to birth rates, migration, and age structure, but forecasting to 2050 involves many assumptions and varying methodologies, and reputable sources do not unanimously forecast a Muslim-majority Birmingham by 2050.
3. National and city-level analyses often highlight the rapid growth of Muslim communities in some UK cities, but reaching a 50% share by 2050 would require sustained high fertility and/or large net inflows, which are not currently established as consensus projections for Birmingham.

Same question to ChatGPT

No — *there’s no credible demographic projection from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), Pew Research Center, or similar authorities that Birmingham will be majority Muslim by 2050. Here’s what reliable data and projections actually show:

?? Current Reality (2021 Census)

1. In the 2021 census, about 29.9 % of Birmingham’s population identified as Muslim — up from 21.8 % in 2011, a noticeable increase but still not a majority. Christians remained the largest group at 34 %, and a large proportion (24.1 %) reported no religion.

?? What Projections Say (UK Level)

1. National-level projections — such as those by the Pew Research Center — estimate that the Muslim share of the entire UK’s population could reach around ~16-17 % by 2050 assuming continued migration and demographic trends, but it does not suggest a Muslim majority nationally or in specific cities like Birmingham.
2. There are no authoritative city-level projections from the ONS or similar agencies showing that Birmingham’s Muslim share would reach over 50 % by 2050.

?? Why the Confusion Happens

1. Some discussions online speculate based on birth rates, younger age profiles, or immigration trends. But these are not official projections — they are often informal extrapolations or social commentary, not statistically validated forecasts.
2. Growth trends in Birmingham’s Muslim population have been strong, but they don’t necessarily continue linearly forever — factors like migration policy, secularization (rise in “no religion”), and demographic change affect outcomes.

?? In summary

1. Birmingham has seen a significant rise in the Muslim share of its population (around 30 % in 2021), but it is not a majority.
2. No credible demographic forecast currently predicts that Muslims will become the majority in Birmingham by 2050. Growth is plausible, but a majority shift within this timeframe is not supported by official projections.

And the same question to Copilot

Here’s the clearest, evidence?based picture of what we actually know — and what we don’t — about Birmingham’s future religious demographics.

?? Is Birmingham projected to be majority Muslim by 2050?

There is no credible demographic projection showing that Birmingham will be majority Muslim by 2050. However, Birmingham does have the largest Muslim population of any UK city, and the proportion has been rising.

What the data shows

1. In the 2021 UK census, Birmingham’s population was:
2. 34.0% Christian
3. 29.9% Muslim
4. 24.1% No religion
5. Other religions made up the remainder .
6. This means Muslims are the second?largest religious group, but still not a majority.

What projections say

1. Pew Research Center projections indicate that the Muslim population in the UK overall will continue to grow through 2050, but they do not project any UK city — including Birmingham — becoming majority Muslim.
2. Broader UK?wide projections discussed in fact?checks (e.g., Channel 4 FactCheck) also conclude that Britain is not on track to become majority Muslim by 2050, and no city?specific projection supports such a claim.

Why the misconception spreads

1. Birmingham’s Muslim population has grown significantly (from 14.3% in 2001 to 29.9% in 2021).
2. This rapid growth leads to speculation, but growth ? majority, and demographic change slows over time.

?? Bottom line

No reputable demographic model projects Birmingham becoming majority Muslim by 2050. The city is diverse and has a large and growing Muslim community, but not one projected to exceed 50% of the population.

And what was the point of that chart you posted, are you assuming all Asians, black and Other/Mixed are Muslim?

So Anger, you admit somewhere in one of these long responses that each country has a very different culture. And so to understand Europe properly, by that logic, you have to have lived in several European countries. Which countries have you lived in for a year or more, other than Ireland?

Why follow a path that will make you unhappy

I can't get my head around this statement, Moz you think people can just choose to believe something that makes no sense to them and is obviously a man made story.(re the religious faith part) Even if it could make me happier there is no way I could convince myself the bible is true even if I wanted to.

Now if someone (or something) could convince me all that was true then I would change my mind.

Have you ever thought that if they are happier it could simply be the fact that living in ignorance is the reason?

A study showed on average, non-religious individuals (atheists/agnostics) score slightly higher on cognitive tests than highly religious people.

The old saying ignorance is bliss seems to apply here.

As to the social injustice I cannot understand people that are total indifferent to bad shit that happens to others. I understand why those indoctrinated into religion (especially Christians) are like this as they are following the teachings of the bible.

The more they believe the more they hate.

@Stav,

It is how you frame a question. The likes of the ONS and Pew do not give exact projections, as this could be seen as politically incorrect. You have to do some extrapolation and answer questions that make up the sum.

I quote from your prompt response:

Current Reality (2021 Census)

1. In the 2021 census, about 29.9 % of Birmingham’s population identified as Muslim — up from 21.8 % in 2011, a noticeable increase but still not a majority. Christians remained the largest group at 34 %, and a large proportion (24.1 %) reported no religion.
2. 
   

In 10 years, the Muslim population went from 21.8% to 29.9% (An 8% swing in 10 years).

The writing is on the wall. This will happen even without more Muslim migrations. It is a simple fact that the Birth rate of Muslims in Birmingham is higher. It is plainly obvious that Muslims will become the majority in Birmingham. (Even if they reduced the birthrate in the future, it is not the current status quo.

I’m actually not making a case for or against religion Sader. I’m making a case for finding a path in life that makes you happy, regardless. For the truly religious it’s prescribed and they are happy. For the doctors who volunteer for Drs Without Borders duty, that service makes them happy.

For most of us it’s a compromise. But we are entitled to our compromise. The fanaticism in religion is pretty muted in the Western World these days. The crusaders ( no pun intended) are on the left with no tolerance for alternative perspectives.

A final word, collect experiences not possessions and spend as much time as you can with people you like and people who stimulate you.

So Anger, you admit somewhere in one of these long responses that each country has a very different culture. And so to understand Europe properly, by that logic, you have to have lived in several European countries. Which countries have you lived in for a year or more, other than Ireland?

Ah your almost grasping it. There isn't a one homogeneous European Culture, though you could say there is some shared cultural traits but they are not always shared.

Living in one country your only going understand one European country fully.

It is how you frame a question. The likes of the ONS and Pew do not give exact projections, as this could be seen as politically incorrect. You have to do some extrapolation and answer questions that make up the sum.

So basically you don't like the answer, you have made an arbitrary reason why it can be dismissed and you will keep rephrasing the question till you get the answer you want or enough of an answer you can cherry pick.

The ONS and Pew providing data isn't politically incorrect, its just the data. You will have plenty of bad faith actors trying to twist the data to their way regardless.

In 10 years, the Muslim population went from 21.8% to 29.9% (An 8% swing in 10 years).

You said Birmingham will be majority Muslim in 10 years, for that to happen there would need to be a slightly more than doubling than doubling of the Muslim population growth that there was between 2011-2021, but population rates slow over time not accelerate.

The writing is on the wall. This will happen even without more Muslim migrations. It is a simple fact that the Birth rate of Muslims in Birmingham is higher. It is plainly obvious that Muslims will become the majority in Birmingham. (Even if they reduced the birthrate in the future, it is not the current status quo.

Muslim birth rates are failing as well. Because they also run into the same problem the native population does. Lack of housing.

But let say for a second Birmingham becomes majority Muslim in the future. What do you think is going to happen, it becomes an city under Islamic law. Non Muslim men are tortured and killed if they don't covert, all non Muslim women become sex slaves?

Living in one country your only going understand one European country fully.

So which European countries have you lived in for more than a year?

Just look at how happy some of the lads are around here...

They only seem happy when they find the demise of Trump for 20th or more time.

So Anger, which European countries have you lived in for a year or more.

Trump is protecting the paedophiles - both left wing and right wing. He redacted their names to protect their privacy.

He has a total disregard for the victims.

It’s curious why the DOJ would overlook releasing the file on the date specified by a court order.

Don't remember Trumpi Boy kicking up a stink for the delayed release.

Living in one country your only going understand one European country fully.

So Anger which European countries have you lived in for more than a year?

So Anger which European countries have you lived in for more than a year?

Moz thinks he has a gotcha.

Stav, I supect however you answer it will still be 48-0 to Moffie . . . or is he claiming his half-century already?

So Anger which European countries have you lived in for more than a year?

I wonder will he keep this going as long as the face mask thread.

It’s a simple question. Have the courtesy to answer it.

I've always wondered if Stav was born in Ireland...

It’s a simple question. Have the courtesy to answer it.

I'll answer eventually, but I think I'll make you ask it another 20 times or so.

I've always wondered if Stav was born in Ireland...

Why you wonder that?