Hamas

I saw this on twitter... a bit harsh but the pig in a blanket is funny

Here we go again...

Again? Barely any comments or posts on here about the conflict in Gaza.

767 civilians including 36 children.

In addition to 376 members of the security forces.

There were some comments on that war on the go.    There were riots in US cities by radical Muslims and in the case of some universities Jewish students have to stay in libraries because it is too dangerous to make them go home.   

From the House perspective they passed an military aid bill to the amount of $16 billion to assist Israel against further attacks.   However, Biden refuse to sign the Bill into law an the aids package is in jeopardy.   Biden has a problem - the Reactionary Muslims refuse to vote for Biden and in some states the Muslims in large numbers for "Not Committed " in Michigan there were 102 000 such votes.      

In the end Biden wants to prove an amount of $9 billion in aid money to  provide for  huminatarian aid to Hamas  and the House would not pass it.    So Biden are not sympathizing with its traditional ally in the ME and it remains a sticky political problem in the USA.    Biden is losing support amongst the  Hispanic and Black communities and cannot afford to lose support of the Muslims as well.    

In the meantime the main terrorist supporting country in the Mid-East - Iran -  is sponsoring attacks by the Houthis in the Red Sea and there really is nothing  the  USA can do about it.    To my personal disgust Iran has been admitted to the BRICS aalliance and the USA cannot do anything about it.    They cannot attack Iran and Biden broke the law about releasing frozen Iran funds to try and keep in the good graces of the Ayatollah regime in Iran.

So far the $60 billion Biden wants to provide armaments to Ukraine and cover the full costs of the budget of the Ukraine Government remains frozen in the House and there is no progress on that one as well.

The US Biden Administration is  weak causing instability throughout the world.    The USA needs a stronger president than the dementia suffering Biden can provide.    As Obama said about Biden years ago - when Biden is given antyhing to do he is bound to fuck it up beyond words".

It is just a question of when China will choose to attack Taiwan and there is nothing Biden will be able to do about it.   China will not do anything before  November because an earlier attack would  help Trump winning the election an they would rather retain Biden as putty in their hands as President.   The nest step after Taiwan would be South Korea and a hopeless Biden will not be able to handle it and go into hiding like he did when the chaotic flight from Afghanistan by the US army was on the way.      

   .                           

The international rules of war are to go for military targets, not civilians. 

Yet, Hamas needs to follow international rules of war which include not hiding in hospitals and schools- or civilian areas in general.

Hamas is the political party in control, so innocent civilian deaths are also on their hands.

Yet, Hamas needs to follow international rules of war which include not hiding in hospitals and schools- or civilian areas in general.

True, particular for hospitals and schools but I'm point out that virtual all of Gaza is a civilian area. Can't really expect Hamas to stand out in the open while Israel planes are bombing them either.

Hamas is the political party in control, so innocent civilian deaths are also on their hands.

Very true, Hamas also has the blood of those innocent civilians on their hands.

@DumbMike,

Stop bringing Biden onto every thread.

@Stav,

What Israel has done is atrocious, but their is no other option but to battle in civilian areas if the Hamas military refuses to go onto the battle field.

SB

The USA was in alliance with most Arab countries and the matter was under control with the Arabs signing up on the Abrahamic treaty negotiated by Trump - but Biden tore up the treaty and what was US allies and kept a level of peace in the ME has all joined BRICS.   So the present seriously war instability is basically the result of the Biden Administration BS.   

What is happening in the ME and Ukraine is directly linked to that chaotic  and weak Administration in the USA.    .   .   .      

Hamas need to be obliterated once and for all ...

I don't for one second enjoy watching what Israel are doing to the innocent civilians in Gaza, but what response did Hamas expect after the atrocities they committed back in October.

Is the Israeli response too much.... yeah, but when your enemy is literally constantly hiding behind the very innocent people that it should be protecting, what should one expect ...

Even if it takes another few months or years , wipe Hamas off the fucking planet, whilst minimizing as much civilian casualties as possible, because if it doesn't happen, the continued loss off lives on both sides, should Hamas remain, will just escalate every year. 

Yeah, all of that is easy to say in isolation. But let's remember how many times Israel had been attacked by Muslims.

I couldn't say how many attacks Muslims have committed against Israel at this point, but I'd imagine its into the hundreds.

Plum do you genuinely think that's all those attacks are just purely down to Muslims just being violent in nature and Israel is an innocent party just sitting there just trying to mind its own business.

At some point a country has had enough.

At some point a people will have enough. If you severely mistreat a people for decades but be surprised when they lash out violently. The same thing happened in Northern Ireland.

And then there is also the fact that regardless of what Israel do, every Arab in the Middle East doesn't believe that Israel has a right to exist.

Its not a fact, that's just plain wrong.  If every Arab in the Middle East doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist then why did 5 Arab states sign the Abraham Accords normalizing relations with Israel? Why after the October 7th attacks did a majority of Arab Israeli's say they felt more Israeli after the attack.  Why did the PLO recognize Israel back in the 80's? What about Turkey?

Let's not pretend that All of Palestine wouldn't be celebrating the destruction of Israel.

Well you can somewhat see why they might hold that view when Israel is in the process of displacing them. Palestine public opinion on the two state solution has gone up and down depending on how they perceive Israel to be treating them. As of November 2023 it stood at just 24% down from 59% in 2012.

Hamas need to be obliterated once and for all ...

How do you do that? From what I understand Israel first went into Northern Gaza and defeated the Hamas militants there and then moved southwards but there is reports that Hamas are already back in civilian control of Northern Gaza.

I don't for one second enjoy watching what Israel are doing to the innocent civilians in Gaza, but what response did Hamas expect after the atrocities they committed back in October.

Probably exactly this response. They wanted to bring the worlds attention back to Israel-Palestine conflict, they wanted Israel to go overboard in their response to make them look bad on the world stage and they wanted Israel to kill a huge number of civilians so they can swell their ranks with new recruits who would be eager for revenge.

Is the Israeli response too much.... yeah, but when your enemy is literally constantly hiding behind the very innocent people that it should be protecting, what should one expect ...

Even if it takes another few months or years, wipe Hamas off the fucking planet, whilst minimizing as much civilian casualties as possible, because if it doesn't happen, the continued loss off lives on both sides, should Hamas remain, will just escalate every year.

I think we would all like to see the back of Hamas. The question is can Israel achieve that militarily without making the situation worse and the answer is probably no.

What about a Hamas military target built and operated from under a hospital in Gaza?

Hamas should have considered what a counter attack  Israel might launch prior to their attack on innocent people.

The terriorists in the Middle East cannot live peacefully side by side with their own Muslim brothers and sisters.

The old saying of a good terriorists is a DEAD terriorist.

Well written Plum.

And honestly, I think Palestinians are predominantly savages.

On what exactly do you reject accept the god hypothesis, evidence?

He doesn't...he's agnostic. 

Ricky Gervais & Georg Carlin reckon 'being agnostic' is a load of bollocks

you're either, one or the other .............. I agree.

Yep, I have raised this issue many times before on here about Muslims, so I share a few of the same sentiments a s Plum, and I am not ashamed to admit it.

It makes me sick what many Muslim countries around the world do to their civilians ... all in the name of Allah.

They also continuously demand that other western countries all around the world change their own laws and cultures to benefits their own beliefs, yet their own countries refuse to do the same.

Buttplug

Are you gerook

No, Blo. I am teaching a pretty high-level class today.

...because I'm sharp as a tac!

Next?

because I'm sharp as a tac!

I smoke Zol when I play guitar, Blo.

What's the problem?

Do you play an instrument?

Lets put it mildly - Plum is not right - I have many Muslim friends who are not fanatics -one of my best friend and my lawyer is a gentleman by the name of Meer - and I have know him for years.  So he is wrong in that as well.    One cannot make generalizations -  In Iraq under Hussein one of his closest assistants was a Christian - but there is a number of issues here - t e fact is the antics are based on factions in the Mid-East.   

The problem is that there are various factions in the Islamic Religion - the two main ones being the Sunni's and  the Shia.   These factions heve been  at war against each other for over 1 000 years and in those wars the fanatics in both factions have been savages who do not consider human beings and lives are of importance.

Although it is a minority in the Muslim world the Shia fanatics under the Ayatollah -  who at the time was living in the UK in the late 1970's - got control of Iran when the USA was under the extreme weak President Carter,   In retrospect that turn the stability in the ME under stress and that let to continuous wars in the ME,   The fact is that  Turkey was in constant war against the  Kurds - in the 1984 there was a major war between Iran and Iraq = with the USA being allied to Hussein - a Shia himself with more moderate views on religion'    In the Iraq war the USA  sided with the Sunni's and that strengthened Sunni extremism.   That war weakened the Shia minority in Iraq and drove them directly into allying themselves with the Iran Ayatollah regime and now 20 years later the USA  are still being under attack by the Shias armed by Iran.   

In Russia 40% of the population are Muslim - most of whom were and are Shias - but the radical elements was confined to the Chechens and linked to the Iran as well.   In the 1990's they rebelled against Russia and launched huge sabotage attacks on Russia - even Moscow suffered from that one.    In the end the Russians won - but when it comes to Muslims in geneal the Russians played a  balancing rule in keeping peace with their religious Muslim minority forcing the Russian leadership to develop close links to Iran's Ayatollah regime.   .

So what happened to the fanatics forced out of Chesnia?   Some went to the USA and in particular the bomb explosion in Boston that killed people came from Chesnia fanatics.  Russia in fact warned the USA to be careful insofar as the actual bombers were concerned. - but the FBI and CIA at the time ignored the warning.   The majority ended up in Syria and Iraq where they formed ISIS and became part of the leadership of that disgusting terrorist regime that conquered most of Iraq and Syria.    After withdrawing US troops from Iraq in 2012 - the ISIS group advanced rapidly in Iraq and Obama was forced to send in soldiers back into Iraq with strict instructions to act only as advisors and training of Iraq troops to try and stop the ISIS group kept advancing and in the end Trump sent in troops to destroy the ISIS faction and the main ISIS commanders ended up in Afghanistan.

In trying to stabilize the ME situation Trump got the more moderate Muslims to deal with Isfal on a peaceful basis leading to the Abrahamic accords and the ME countries united to protect themselves from the threat attached to the Ayatollah Iran Regime - but Biden  tore up the Accord and the situation became unstable.

The moral of the story is to deal with the ME on a balanced way to try and retain some relationships with leadership  to stabilize the inflammable and unstable  ME.   In an effort to curtail Iran development of Nuclear arms  by Iran - the Obama administration  and EU members to sign an agreement with Iran - which Iran never kept.    The treaty included inspection of facilities - so Iran moved it to army bases where inspections were not allowed by the Iran Ayatollah Governnment.   In 2017 Trump ealizd what was going  on and tore up the agreement and a law was passed  that freeze Iranian dollars earned by the Iran Government through oil sales - leaving the Iran Government in a weakened  position. 

The USA under Trump tried tgo strengthen the Sunni regimes in Egypt and the rest of the ME.   That situation lasted until Biden and the Demcoratic Party sent Kerry to try to deal with a new treaty on the nuclear armaments and promised the Iran regime that if Biden wins the election they would lift the sanctions on Iran imposed by Trump.   

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What rubbish Mike

I am not talking about specific individuals, I am talking about the religion or beliefs as a whole

Look at how tolerant Muslim countries are towards Western people....

Then look at how so many of theses Muslim Iman's are standing on London or other western country corners preaching hate speech against the very country that is housing them....they appreciate absolutely fuck all.

They constantly preach hate speech, but don't want to leave the very country they profess to hate.

Try doing that in a Muslim country ..... you will dissapear very quickly

Zol ............ nay bother, helps me with my RA

Love music, but apart from 'two spoons' ........... I'm no good.

DA

I did not finish the above message at all - what I am driving at it that the Western libreral approach to the  Muslims are strengthening the fanatics in their holy war mission.    To use politics to appease the radicals are wrong  and that is exactly what Obama and Biden did in the case of the USA and successive Governments instance, Germany, France and the UK did.

There are less fanatic Muslims in the world as well - but hat the EU and USA did is to undermine any moderate Muslim elements and promote fanaticism that in the end would be fatal for their own citizens.

What I was driving at is perhaps beyond your understanding - but not beyond what is really to be done to prevent  strengthening of fanatics.     The USA is for internal political issues in an election year is trying to appease Iran and the fanatics in the Muslim world by playing both sides.   They are helping Israel and the Iran proxies and that would have disastrous consequences for Israel - while the only other remaining US Ally in the Muslim world - namely Turkey is near to become a BRICS member.    That would lead to Israel being occupied by the Turks - the battle may last a month - but not much longer.   The USA should do much better - they did not succeed in isolating Iran as the most dangerous country in the ME - the rest of the Arab countries did that by joining BRICS - which will prevent Iran from attacking them.    The USA angers the Turkish Government by undermining their peace-making efforts in Ukraine and allowing religious fanatic opposition to the Turkish Government to live and operate in the USA.    

The problem is the stage is set for  Turkey joining BRICS and then attacking Israel and there is zero that the USA will be able to do anything about it.   Turkey has by a huge distance the biggest and most well-trained army in Europe and their departure from NATO and joining BRICS and there si not a single chance that the wavering efforts by the weakling Governments in the USA and   Europe will prevent the destruction of Israel by the fanatical Iran Regime - but that could lead also for Israel .being attacked by Turkey and wiped out of existence within three months.

What the West is suffering from is weak Governments clueless on how to help more moderates Muslim countries to protect themselves and to neutralize fanatics in the ME.   Treat the moderates in the Muslims with kid gloves like Putin does in Russia - and wipe out the fanatics like happened in Cheznia.    The USA  is doing the exact opposite and thriough the Open Border Policy of Biden - thousands of migrants from Muslim countries with a high level of fanatical terrorism into the USA is an open invitation to let to massive terrorist attacks inside the USA.    You have seen nothing yet.             .                                      

No Mike....it is actually very simple, and your long winded posts about Biden or the USA and other western countries have absolutely nothing at all to do with it.

Muslim countries should display the same sort of tolerance that western countries show and display on a daily basis ... to every single Muslim citizen of that country.

However, you cannot name me one single Muslim country that does the same for western citizens, that western countries do for Muslim citizens.

Therein lies the exact description of who is tolerant and who isn't.

Stand on one corner anywhere, in any of the Muslim countries around the world, and just try and slightly mock Allah / Mohammad ....and you might be lucky to survive 30 minutes..... and I literally mean survive.

Muslim religion and culture is very cl early the most intolerant throughout the world, yet they demand tolerance and amended laws and culture changes from all other non Muslim countries.