Mozart - a spcial thread for you - the USA will never change - they love wars

I would like to give you an example of what really happened in 1974-75.   When Angola and Mozambique got independence  from Portugal there were total instability in the two countries and there were instability in both countries and it invovled both what was then Rhodesia and South Africa got involved in civil wars in bth cou ntries,  in fighting in both countries, 

So lets discuss the issue of Angola.   The leaders of the Angola Government was so insecure they got Cuba to send soldes and especially  also fighter jets to Angola - which no doubt irritated the US Government   There were some issues I personally knew about.   So let me talk about what I found at the time.   A  friend of mine had a son who qualified as engineer and his girlfriend had to d her hospital year in Addingtomn Hospital in Durban - while his son was appointed by an Armaments factory in Pinetown.    He a number of times went away and told me he had to go to go away on duty and then about a wek later turned up.   I once found a copy of a document relating to his stay in Addis Ababa.   I asked him whether he went there and h said yes.   So he said he used a diplomatic passport from Spain to get there.   However,afterwards he came back and told me he was in Angola and saw the big "spook" and really how to develop record breaking running.   The story was funny - he was  there to teach them how to carry and fire shoulder rockets.   There was a battle raging in the Area and in the night he was walking behind an Angolan carrying the rocket and he was walking behind the Angolan with two wires that would cause the rocket firing when suddenly they saw a giant spook - what looks like a huge white thing with big eyes.  The Angolan suddenly through  down the rocket and ran - he said he never saw anybody breaking a world record in running.   It turned out to be an elephant.

At he time my younger brother 13 years younger than me was doing his military duty in Namibia - he was  a tank driver - when out of the blue the Sout African Army invaded Angola in full force.   He told me afterwards that they saw the lights of Luanda when they were suddenly told to withdraw from Angola.   

So why did the South African army attacked Angola and what caused the sudden withdrawal and what did the war had to do with the USA.   It came out in the 1990's that the USA provided the arms used by SA for the attack on Angola after persuading the South  African Government to get the Cubans out of Angola.   They apparently never had Congress approval for that one and delivered arms in huge quantity to SA in secret,    However, at the time SA was boycotted and no country was supposed to sell or deliver arms to SA.   So it happened that the Senate at the time was beginning to ask questions about what the USA would do to SA to stop the invasion and the arms supply from the USA was cut to zero and the SA Government then decided they are not going tos serve the USA interests  any further and withdrew from Angola.   

I mentioned the above particularly as it relates to the present war in Ukraine.   The USA Government wanted and got S Ae to attack Angola - they wanted Ukraine to get involved in a war with Russia,   In the main the same method was used in the case of Angola war and now in the case of the present Ukraine war.   They provided arms to both and used arguments to cause the two wars - in the case of the Angola war they promised to protect SA from further action by its numerous enemies - especially in the Communist world and provide the arms to be used in the war.   In the case of the Ukraine War the situation is the same.

In the case of the Angola war they broke their undertakings and it seems as if the US population is against further assistance to Ukraine and Biden's proposal as to provide $60 billion to Ukraine budget is stil being in jeopardy.   The Speaker is refusing to table the proposed aid grat to Ukraine for approval by the House.

The other amazing thing is that it is recognized  that China and its potential attacks on Taiwan and South Korea is a real security threat.   So how is the USA going to aid Taiwan and the other threatened  countries in the Pacific area.   In the case of Taiwan the Taiwanese Government.   The Taiwan Government ordered and paid for $19 billion for arms from the USA,   However, Biden had to give permission for the arms to be delivered to Taiwan and that was delayed by more than 2 years.  Now the USA provided in Biden's proposals arms to the value of $4,5 billion to be delivered to Taiwan - while the Ukraine Government will get $60 billion in aid after already getting $85 billion from the USA since February 2022 - with the total aid program since 2014 being $115 billion.   As Senator Hawley said - what is the real objective insofar as the Ukraine War is concerned - there is no sign of victory by the Ukrainians in the war and n end result in the funding of the issue.   Senator Paul was more precise in that regard - he said the war is driven by corruption in both the USA and Ukraine.

By he way that Senate bill the Senate passed and now handed to the House has some weird contents.     There are $7 billion in humanitarian aid to Gaza - in other words to Hamas .because they took everything in kind and if there is money involved Hamas will get it.    So a puny $4,5 Billion for Taiwan and $7 billion or Hamas,    Wonder whether resident Xi will worry abut that one at all - because Biden will do nothing to annoy him.    In any event that Bill is doomed and will not be tabled in the House.    And the Immigration Bill is also going the same route.   

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Congrats ouMaaik, there are very, very few typos & such a long post ............. ButtPlug will be impressed.

The USA since WW2 took on the task of resisting communism and protecting oil supplies. Without that you don’t have NATO and Russia would probably have extended into Europe. Greece for example was right on the cusp. South Korea was also saved, Japan left to become a major economy, Kuwait saved from Iraq….many successes.

There were a few failures….Vietnam, Afghanistan, the Bay of Pigs, Angola. But these setbacks were a small price to pay for the world we have now. 

The US had to be dragged kicking and screaming into WW1 and WW2. And it has no history of exploiting countries….all resources were paid for at market prices.

Sure it could have been done better, but lots of American boys have died keeping the world and many countries free. I for one am grateful for their sacrifice.

Mike you highlight the corruption involved in the Ukraine war and rightly so. Those owning shares in military industrial companies like Raytheon are over the moon at the money being made. Hence they ardently hope more funds are made to the failing military efforts in Ukraine. These war mongerrs are not remotely interested in peace as their shares would plummet in value.

Ditto the corrupt Uniparty Globalist Rinos and the demonrats who ae making a fortune from Military industrial complex lobbyists. Just as they did with Big Pharma and Covid.

For them life has never been better, War in Ukraine, war in Gaza, war with the Houthis, War clouds over Iran and Taiwan.

Filled with avarice ou mozzietard looks at his how his shares are dong multiple times a day. Am I well positioned to take advantage of disease X he wonders, am I over weight in Military Industrial shares and should I be switching to big Pharama. How long should I wait. That darn Trump could go and foul things up and stop these wars.

However, all this corruption not actually the biggest issue with the Ukraine war. The Globalists hoped to defeat the one super power that loos to be anti Globalist. They thought they could defeat Russia using Ukraine. Russia was backward and had a small economy they thought. So they wanted to oust Putin and take control of Russia and break it up.

Did ever a malevolent plan backfire like this has done. The EU is suffering far more than Russia as the commodities boom has been a blessing to Russia. The sanctions has not ahrmed Russie,

Meanwhile in the USA this Ukraine war is turning sour on the illegitimate Biden Re gime as is the open border issue. Hahhahahahahahahahaha

Raytheon Feb 14 2022 ….96

Raytheon Feb 14 2024….91

Wow what a killing this war has been for Raytheon shareholders.  The ignorant mouth is frequently the loudest.

Mozart 

I raised the Angola issue specifically and indicated the US A was involved in SA attacking  Angola and provided the armament needed for the purpose.    When the USA stopped the arms supplies SA withdrew from Angola.   The issue was basic - the u SA anted South A frica toget the Cubans ouit of Angola.   

My problem is that the USA promised the SA Government which dried up in the end and S A withdrew from Angola as a result.

The fact is that I realize the USA became the leding country supporting Democracy in the rld since WW2 - but at the same time I think as  you state that thee were failures - I would add Iraq as one of he failures as well.     

As to Russia - during  WWC2  and until 21991 there was effectively no country called Russia - the name was Union of Soviet  Socialist Republic USSR.   In the end the result from agreements between Stalin and Roosevelt the Soviet Union  occupied he whole of Central Europe and only the Westen part of Europe was not occupied by the USSR - a huge mistake  and the cause of the Cold War that lasted until 1991.   

The downfall of Communism in Eastern Europe started with the Pan-European Picnic held on the border of Hungary and   Austria in 1989 organized by Otto von Habsburg and some opposition leaders in Hungary - resulting in the opening of he Hungarian border with Austria and the collapse of the Communist Regime in East Germany and in virtually every country occupied by Soviet troops.

The Russia that emerged  after 1991 was based on democratic ideals  and the russian Constgitution in many ways was a copy of the  USA constitution.   There never was any proof that after 1991 there were no countries in Europe ever theatened by a Russian invasion or attack,   That is why the Ukraine case is unique and the reasons are basically recorded. and can be found if people really study what was tried to prevent or stop the war in Ukraine    The USA did all it can to prevent a peaceful settlement in Ukraine  and hat si a fact as well.

After initial supply of weaponry to SA .the aid given by th USA to SA to attack Angola, the aid stopped and my problem is that  the aid stopped and SA withdrew from Angola.   Now we have he tragic case of Ukraine used by the DP Government in the USA to prmote a war fighting Russia.   Is Ukraine as such not a case where the USA encouraged and provided Billions in aid.   

Biden is a bloody idiot and so are he  Democrat and Republican Senators  who approve  the Foreign aid Bill they approved and sent to the House for consideration.   To analyze that Bill and support it is crazy thinking n an election year.    Voter support for assisting Taiwan and Israel is strong - the support for Ukraine is getting lower and - even though you deny it and support to help the Gaza people with aid is aimed at  getting  the votes of Musl.im veters in the USA - nothing else so lets look at the situation objectively:-

*      There is $60 billion support for Ukraine - $10,7 billion for military armaments to be bought in the USA and sent to Ukraine and the rest of covering  the full budget of  the Ukraine Government operations for the next fiscal year.   The is no auditing of money provided to Ukraine as well as none for money spent by the USA Defense Force iro UA Army activities worldwide.   Constant allegations of fraud and corruption mars both allocations.    Aside from that how long is this going to go on - there sis no end to it accoding to the Biden Adminsitration and the US Army.   There is no objective in the USA as to what way should the war in Ukraine go and what successes are achievable.    If it is another issue and that is how long is this war going to go on - there is no end to it foreseen and no idea to try and get Russia out of Ukraine - it will only have to end up through negotiations and those have been and are sabotaged by the present regime in the USA.    .       .   .   

*      A linking issue that ordinary voters regard as a priority is that the ordinary and poor in the USA receive no priority from their  government  and the poor voters and gets no additional funding from the Government - 49 million receive meals from food banks - in other words through help from private contributors.    Most of the problems relates .to the open borde policy of Biden - but allocations to Ukraine are also causing dissatisfaction from working class people who believe he Government of the USA are not interested in the welfare of the people of Ukraine than they are in the welfare of the USA workers and their families.   They also partly blame the USA involvement in Ukraine for inflation in food  and accommodation costs.  To add to that the majority of the voters are suffering from a situation where the Government sows no concern for their interests.   The further fact is that there are still huge numbers of people living on sidewalks in the USA  and nothing is being done to solve that problem iro U cities while illegal migrants get free accommodation and credit cards with a limit of $1 000 per month for food purchases only.  You add those things together and it makes crazy reading.   

*      Then you h ave th e crazy $14 billion in aid to Israel - coupled to $9 billion in Humanitarian aid to Gaza - the support of the Palestinian Government in the West bank area is negligible.   The Gaza support is BS.   The fodo and other supplies ends up in the hands of Hamas who controls allocations and el off part of it to get money for weapons and enriching of their leadership.   Cash allocations for Gaza projects ends up in the pockets of Hamas as well.   So the USA are in fact funding the operations of Hamas and Hezbollah and nothing is being done to weaken the Ayatollah Government in Iran.    In fact the Bide Regime is helping  Iran to fund wars and terrorism in the mE by illegally unfreezing dollars aid for oil delivery by Iran going against a Law forbidden the u nfreezing of the said money.   In the case of Isrfael - th e USA at p[resent support Hamas and Hezbolla and helping strengthening the hands of the Ayatollah Government.    That si voewd as betrayal of Israel and other moderate Governments in the ME as it entails in the main buying support for the Democrats in the upcoming electiio.by Muslim voters.

*     The stry in the media is there is $4,7 billion in support of Taiwan ro o military assistance.   If only that was true that would be some minor assistance to Taiwan - nothing of substance. hat would deter China from attacking  Taiwan.   About 2 years ago the Taiwanese Government ordered $17 billion in weaponry from the USA and paid for it.   The last iime I read u on that one about six months ago Biden - who have to approve export of the weaponry of the relevant nature to foreign countries is sitting on approval an has not authorized the delivering of the arms to Taiwan.   Whether that has changed since then.   So what is going to happen to the $4,7 trillion?   Most of it is deals the USA  signed with a range of countries in the Pacific Rim and the islnds states to help hem financially and ward off the Chinese influence in the area.   The money allocated now is not for arms to Taiwan - but for grants to all countries in the area with such agreements.    What Taiwan would get in armaments is apparently what President Xi - with his influence over Biden - will allow them to get and that is near to nothing.   

Sorry to say - but that aid bill is not going to get through the House -t here are way too many contradicons in what is in the Senate Bill to get through the house.    There are ten Jewsish  Democratic Members of the House who will not support any support going to Hamas and Hezbolla as envisaged in the Bill and the non-military support to Taiwan is another factor.  The House may support the $10 ;,7 billion in military aid to Ukraine - but not a cent to the corrupt Ukraine Government to cover their budget.

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Angola was a CIA overreach. But the South African government was naive to think if this support became public it wouldn’t be at risk. In America everything is governed by domestic politics. 

Mozart

Was the fact that the CIA  organized and funded the protests in Kiev in 2014 and then the State Department decided who should take over in Ukraine not overreach?

Mozart

Was the fact that the CIA  organized and funded the protests in Kiev in 2014 and then the State Department decided who should take over in Ukraine not overreach?

Read this from the economist.

The first victory came when protesters at Maidan square in Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, ousted a thuggish Russian-backed president, Viktor Yanukovych. In four years Mr Yanukovych and his friends looted around $100bn from a country with an economy the size of Nebraska’s. Leaned on by Mr Putin, in 2013 Mr Yanukovych abandoned Ukraine’s Association Agreement with the EU—a framework for closer economic ties—and moved to join its Russian-led rival. Mr Yanukovych ordered police to shoot protesters who opposed him. In the chaos, bonds formed. For the first time at Maidan “a huge number of people learned to trust each other”, according to Kebuladze Vakhtang, a philosopher. When the crowds swelled further, Mr Yanukovych fled to Russia. So began Ukraine’s “Revolution of Dignity”.

Since it gained independence from the Soviet Union in 1991 Ukraine had played Russia and the West off against one another, with alternative governments leaning one way, but never fully eschewing the other. When Mr Putin seized Crimea and backed separatists in the Donbas region in 2014, he redrew Ukraine’s political map, too. The most pro-Russian areas of the country could no longer vote in elections. And elsewhere most Ukrainians grew convinced that Russia was Ukraine’s enemy. That paved the way for the country’s first uninterrupted pro-Western tilt.

In review, The Economist takes an editorial stance of classical and economic liberalism that supports free trade, globalization, open immigration, and social liberalism. There is minimal use of loaded language in headlines and articles such as this: America’s new attitude towards China is changing the countries’ relationship. In fact, most articles are well-written with a very low emotional bias. Economically, The Economist leans right, but they also support such initiatives as a carbon tax and environmental protectionism, which are not right-wing positions.

Editorially, The Economist endorses both Republicans and Democrats in the United States. For example, they endorsed Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton in 2016 while endorsing Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush in earlier elections. In the UK, they most recently endorsed the Liberal Democrats, which hold left-leaning libertarian positions. One criticism of The Economist is that most of their articles are penned anonymously, which they explain is to maintain a continuity of writing. They do, however, provide a media directory where you can view who is involved in writing and editing.

Bias Rating: LEAST BIASED
Factual Reporting: HIGH
Country: United Kingdom
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Magazine
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

What really happened is the Ukrainian people kicked out the corrupt Russian dictator. So Russia invaded….but the Ukrainians have bravely defended their country. People don’t give their lives away for nothing…they are fighting for their freedom which is recognized by International law.

There is only one villain here.

And that is the USA  who sabotaged peace agreements and promised all out support to vcause a war to be inevitable.     The poor Ukrainians are suffering because of that BS .   You can qute a thousand sources - if they lie you call them reliable news providers because they rate th emselves as such.   Your quoted for articles from the Wall . Street Journal and everyone of them were propaganda BS and falsifications.

Just answer me one question - why did the USA  sabotaged peace negotiations to solve the Ukraine issue and why do they not support peaceful negotiations and sacrificed the people of Ukraine as a result.     It happened in  Iraq with the weapons of mass destruction lies used by the US  G Governments to start a war and never found the famous weapons of mass destruction they claimed to exist but they never found them so it was a war based on a lie.       It happened in Ukraine where they organized and funded demonstrations and then  through out the Constitution of the country and appoint puppets to rule the country in their name.   I  always believe you had thinking ability - but your recent conduct showed you are totally brainwashed and not allowed to think for yourself anymore since you repeat propaganda BS  on site. 

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Not once, never ever never has ouMaaik directed ANY criticism whatsoever to either Putin or Russia . Not a morsel. Tjoepstil

Unfkgbelievable ........................ jislaaik, talk about blind loyalty.

That was the Achilles heel of this generation of South Africans….blind belief, the capacity to believe what they were told without any logical verification. Sheep.

Any proof of your statement -= shitbrain?