NYT says NATO's Stoltenberg Admits Nato could have prevented ear

The admission relates towhat Mike and I and others have noted, the Nato expansion eastwards.

More grief for dishonest peoe who refuse to accept the cold facts. 

NATO ADMISSION.

Damn Nato to hell for not preventing  those God damned ears.

Putin is right for fighting against those evil bloody ears

Maybe instead Ukraine could be made the 51st State of USA. 

If Putin (Russia) has a quarell with NATO, they should address NATO about their concern. 

How does the concern of NATO expansation justify trying to colonise Ukraine - who are not even part of NATO?

I am annoyed at Beeno -  so I punch Moonrover. (That makes allot of sense in the reality of preventing ear...)

Why does NATO need to be on the Russian doorstep in the first place?

All about power and the USA blowing up Nord Stream pipeline about Russian gas supply to Europe. 

The USA is on another continent yet they committed the biggest (commercial) terrorist act in a Northern Sea ever. 

Ah but the link leaves out some crucial content:

‘ The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that. 

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.’

……

‘He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO.’

…..

Of course he knew that was a non starter which would have destroyed NATO…knew that would never happen. So the whole negotiation was in bad faith.

Whenever I read these revelations on junk media I know they have garbled the truth.

What is the USA doing in Europe?

What is the USA doing on Asia?

Why is NATO allowing Turkey to bomb Kurd civillians by heir own member?

NATO and USA are war mongerers, plain and simple and when Russia says enough, they try pump more money into Ukraine.What a waste. Their own backyard is a mess with drug cartels, LgBgt rubbish... fix your own dump. 

Duplivation 

A  non-starter which was based on undertaking by NATO that there would be no expansion of membership for NATO to countries that would be in respect of newly independent countries that used to be part of the Soviet Union.   

It did not cover Poland, Romania, Hungary, Yoguslavia etc.  Only the three Baltic states Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.   Those three had substantive Russian speaking people - BUT they were countries with  Constitutions that protect human rights of all people inside the countries concerned.  They joined NATO in 2007 and although Russia objected  to them joining NATO they did nothing about it.

So why was Ukraine different?   The answer goes back to 2014 when the USA funded and organized a coup in Ukraine after an election in 2013  the outcome USA did not like.    The USA decided to concoct a new Interim Government consisting of extremists that were linked to the Bandera movement - who were extremists and wanted all Russian speaking people removed from Ukraine soil - ie 36% of the Ukraine population.   The 1991 Constitution of Ukraine guaranteeing human rights of all residents was chucked out and all semblances .of Democracy went out of the window.   After 2014 corrupt US politicians had a field day in political corruption and the US Government funded a ultra-corrupt Government in Ukraine - the result it was never anything more than a proxy Government of Ukraine by the USA.

There were other issues like the operation of bio-labs using dangerous research in Ukraine as well and the USA had such a lab built and funded - completed in 2018.    The most important issue, however was the threat the Russian-speaking people encountered and a civil war broke out after the USA proxy Government started to bombard Donetsk in 2014.    The result was that Russia provided arms and technical assistance in Ukraine to the threatened Russianss speaking people in Eastern Ukraine, while the USA poured billions in aid to the new American proxy regime in Ukraine.

In an effort to stop the civil war in Ukraine the German and French Governments  organized a conference in Minsk attended by the Ukraine Government, the Russian Government and representatives of the rebels in Eastern Ukraine.   The following were part of the Agreement signed by all parties involved:-

*     That the integrity of the 2015 borders of Ukraine will be retained;

*      That it was necessary for Ukraine to get a new Constitution in place to ensure that  the human rights of  all residents of Ukraine were protected; and

*      That Ukraine would not be admitted to NATO.

The agreement was submitted to the Security Council and accepted by the Council as a way forward.   The USA would have none of it - they effectively ensured that the Minsk agreement be undermined and it was never implemented by their proxy Government in Ukraine where 18 000 people - mostly civilians were killed in the  Civil War,    

In 2019 there was an election in Ukraine and Zelenskyy promised during his election campaign to ensure peace in Eastern Ukraine through negotiation and implementation of the Minsk agreement.   In 2018 Trump found out that most USA grants tro couintries were linked to corrupt US politicians getting kickbacks from recipients and instructed the State Department and th Treasury to compile procedures that would ensure that kickbacks to USA politicians through aid money are stopped,    

So Senator Menendez went to Ukraine and came back with a request that the arms element  of $1 billion should be released to the Ukraine Government.   Trump then decided to buy arms in the USA and delivered arms and to send no money to the Ukraine Government.    The result was that two politicians - Pelosi and Schiff - to their necks involved in Ukraine corruption - decided to bring fake  IMPEACHMENT charges against Trump.

The US controlled House and Senate threatened the new Zelenskyy Government that they are going to stop funding if Zelenskyy Government to act against his election promises  to find a peaceful settlement in Eastern Ukraine and he started to implement some measures against the Russian speaking people in Eastern Ukraine those included -

*  fining of people who dared to speak Russian in Public even in talking to other Russian speaking people.

*   To ban Russian as a subject in all Government controlled schools in  the Ukraine and ban the use af Russian as an medium or teaching in Ukraine schools,   

*    To send more troops into eastern Ukraine to obliterate all Russian speaking areas so as to conquer Eastern Ukraine.

The situation was worsened after Biden became President.   In early 2022 Macron went to Moscow and Kiev to negotiate a new deal to ensure peace in Eastern Ukraine and the whole of  Ukraine.    Putin told him that all the Russians require was IMPLEMENTATION of the 2015 Minsk Agreement and signed a new Treaty on that basis with Ukraine.   Macron took the new agreement to Kiev and Zelenskyy signed it a well.   The USA and UK would have none of it and the new Treaty was followed by new oppressive measures against the Russian speaking Ukrainians.    

*   After voting for a motion supported  by  All Russian speaking members of the Ukraine Parliament to  condemn a potential Russian Invasion of Ukraine Zelenskyy had them arrested a week before the invasion took place.   When the  Attorney General could find no evidence to support charges against the members of Parliament based on the 1991 Ukraine Constitution he fired her and to date no charges were laid against them.  Nobody knows where the arrested Members of Parliament are and the suspicion is they were murdered by the in famous Azov battalion.   

*    Zeleskyy went on to ban the Ukraine Orthodox Chuech from functioning - about 80% of the population of Ukraine are linked to that church - which is an off-shoot of the Russian Orthodox Church,

Both the above entail breaches of the Agreement signed by Zelenskyy,   Talk about ethnic cleansing of all  Russian speaking people from Ukraine and the Crimea intensified.

No thinking people would trust a totalitarian unconstitutional  Government acting on instructions of the USA to become a member of NATO and be used as a base for undermining Russia and the Russian speaking people in Eaatern Ukraine and the Crimea.    

Your conclusion that the NATO membership of Ukraine would destroy NATO is the biggest BS ever written on this site.   What NATO should have done is to undertake never to admit Ukraine as a member - but allow for retention of NATO membership of the 3 Baltic Countries who as constitutional governments to remain  as members.     They caused no threat to Russia and was no part of the Minsk Agreement anyway as a basis of  negotiation - not to reject everything.   Russia would live with membership of the NATO of the three countries involved - BUT not with membership of a totalitarian Ukraine Regime controlled by the Washington Government, especially aimed at destroying of Russia as a country.

If ever there was somebody actually responsible for the present Ukraine War  look no further than the Biden Maladministration.   You claimed Putin negotiated n bad faith of which you have zero proof.   The USA Government took no part in any negotiations whatsoever and if other countries did they undermined efforts to find a solution to problems..   That REPRESENTS  acting  in BAD FAITH.

      .       .       

Congratulations Mike you have schooled the ignorant, lying Mozzzzquito. 

We will not move an inch eastward promised Secretary of State Baker. They move 800 miles eastward. Kissinger said it was a mistake to do this as it threatened Russian national security. It was no mistake. It was planned and delibetste. 

Putin protested against this expansion time and again but was totally ignored. 

These are the facts. Warmongers like the Mozzzzquito and ignorant buffoons like old crust and sharktwit refuse to accept the facts.

The  Biden Regime led NATO proxy war must continue. The idea that the Russians in the East become part of Russia is all wrong they say. This despite the genocide against these people and denial of the right and the fact these people unsurprisingly don't want to be part of Ukraine! 

These buffoons also can't stomach the idea of Ukraine being neutral which is tbe best for both sides. So great is their Globalist media engendered hatred of Russis that they want NATO controlling a fully armed Ukraine ready to go to war with Russia.

The also hate the third demand of the Russians for peace ie the denazification of Ukraine. They love the Banderites. You can see from their posts these two are Totalitarian types. 

Mozzzzz of course is a greedy money man. How much is enough for ou Mozzzz. Ending the war cuts off the money rolling in. As does taking down the genocidal maniacs running big Pharma.

Its all totally dispicable. Lie upon lie.

I see in the House  half of the GOP voted against aid to Ukraine. How things are changing. The aid will go through to Ukraine as 107 GOP Congressmen voted with the Demonrats. Not long ago there was unanimous consent in providing aid. 

Bye the way Russia in all these years never advanced Westwards. It was NATO who advance Eastwards. 

I am delighted to see all over the internet and especially on Twitter the false Globalist narrative about the war breaking down. 

Russia thankfully have won the war. The Globalists have lost. This is becoming more widely recognized. There is no path for Ukraine to win. Biden dare not send American troops to fight in Ukraine. They too would be slaughtered and come home in body bags to the extreme outrage of the America public who already wonder why this traitor Biden allows and invasion of America and yet wants to defend the borders of Ukraine. 

Of course the Mozzzzquitoe doesn't even think like this being the traitorous American last type he is. 

As Trump pointed out Russia has been driven into the Chinese Orbit. Quite deliberately. The intention of the Globalists as always is to destroy Western Civilization. 

8 see President Trump has promised a full Investigation into news Outlets  like CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC etc. Lots needs to be done. The DOJ, FBI, CIA etc need to be cleaned out, burnt to the ground if necessary. The Gloves must come off and the Globalist Deep State completely destroyed. 

See I agree that the US should have been more cautious in its dealings with Russia. But not because what they did was wrong. If a nation wants to join NATO that should be their right. NATO is not a threat to Russia, it’s never going to attack Russia. It’s a defensive alliance because Russia is a threat to its neighbors as it has just proven.

No I would have been more cautious because Russia is an unpredictable threat and the hope is by exposing their people to the West they would eventually demand a civilized government. So Sochi was a huge mistake….the Russia hoax was a huge mistake.

But that doesn’t excuse Russia from its barbaric acts in Ukraine and from attacking it in the first place. The NATO excuse is exactly that. NATO’s eastern border has not moved since 2003. And Russia expressed an interest in joining NATO after the last expansion.

The so called negotiation was a ruse, there were demands that no alliance could ever accept and Russia knew that. Then there was Putin hastily withdrawing his yacht from a Western shipyard weeks before the at tack.

This was a vanity war for Putin and he has ended up with vastly diminished stature. A good result, but no old man’s vanity is worth the life of hundreds of thousands of people.

What a load of complete BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From the agreement of Russia to allow Germany to to reunite to the promise made that NATO would never expand Eastwards it was all a lie and a continuous poking of the bear.

Why in the world did NATO promise not to move Eastwards in the first place. Precisely because it represented a threat to Russia. Then take the actions of NATO since then. The 2014 US lead Coup against a pro Russian duly elected president. Immediately the arming of Ukraine began in earnest. Missiles were placed i Ukraine pointed at Moscow. Dangerous gain of function labs were opened on Russia doorstep.

The war against Russians in the East of Ukraine was launched. Their right curtailed. 

Then the two Minsk agreements which Merkel said were only a ruse to buy time while while they armed Russia. Then they shut down of the any peace talks where Zelensky actually signed and agreement with Russia and was told to walk it back.

You make the laughable statement that NATO is a defensive organization. What a complete lie. They have been expanding eastwards despite Russia objecting many times. They armed Ukraine. They put bio labs on Russia's borders and they did nothing to stoop their proxy government conducting a genocide against the Russian in Est Ukraine. In fact they were hoping this would provoke Putin so they could get the war they had been planning since at least 2014. NATO has been the aggressor from the start. On top of that the Globalist media have worked in unison to smear Russia at every turn. Those pointing out the truth have been censored. Its interesting in this regard The daily mail has allowed posts showing how the Biden Us led NATO instigated the war. 

The game is up for liars denying this clearly established truth.

 Also spare me the nonsense about civilized government. The USA would have been far better off with a Putin in power. There would be no invasion of the country. LGBT would be crushed, There would be no war on energy or food production going on. Law and order would prevail. Like he has done for Russia a Putin would be building up America not shipping is jobs overseas as well as its technology etc to China and elsewhere.

You talk a bout a civilized government that rigs elections and censors free speech. Look how the DNC is rigging the Democrat Presidential primary. Look at how the justice system has been weaponized.

America is far from being a civilized democracy

No more lies please Mozzzz. 

Well HasBeen you clearly would prefer to live in Russia vs living in America. Curious, have you ever seen people queuing up to enter Russia. No? Because even the least educated immigrant instinctively understands that it’s better being in a country where prosperity is achievable and rights are protected.

And you argue 20 years after the last eastward expansion of NATO it’s suddenly a threat to Russia? Give me a break..  you have been duped.

Nobody said anything  about where we want  to live - What I do  hate is. the  usage of lies to justify causing of a war in which  hundreds of thousands of lives are lost.    There is proven documents that the war was caused by the USA by destroyi.ng all chances  of  negotiations to settle the problems in Ukraine peacefully.    The USA wanted the war and caused situations in Ukraine to deteriorate badly that would destroy the lives of  millions of Russian speaking people through  real oppression and threats of ethnic cleansing by a dicta- torial u,nconstittuutio0nal Government the US A caused to eb isn talled in the Ukraine.  

In any event you raised entirely new issue here - are you in  favor of Biden's Open Border policy as well.   Just for your information Russia recruited many farmers from SA who now farm in Russia and are doing very well.   Immigration to countries should not be available for the scum of other countries to flow into any  country,             

I do not argue about any countries joining NATO.   The issue relates entirel;y to Ukraine with its criminal proxy Government to join NAT0.  The issue  NATO membership of UKAINE was under negotiation.    The USA promised no country that befiore 1991 was part of the Old Soviet Union would be allowed to join NATO and they broke that undertaking in 2007 with the admission of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to join NATO - Russia objected but did not do anything about it.    

You apparently do not understand what is happening in Ukraine after 2014 anyway.         .         

And you apparently have your facts wrong again:

Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia were invited to begin accession talks at the Alliance's Prague Summit in 2002. On 29 March 2004, they officially became members of the Alliance, making this the largest wave of enlargement in NATO history.

………

So something that happened 18 years before was a good reason for Russia to destroy a country in 2022?

And your description of immigrants as ‘scum’ is unacceptable. Most immigrants are decent hard working people trying to do their best for their children. They come from all over the world….nursing in the US is dependent on many immigrants from the Phillipines.

You don’t have the background to discuss these topics, you make wild assertions based on your right wing sources and get your facts wrong all the time.

Mozart

Russia  had no problems with Romania, Bulgaria,  Slovenia and Slovakia joining NATO  - they never were part of the Soviet Union.  The 1991 agreement on potential membership only applied to those countries that were part of the Soviet Union - not any other countries.    When the three Baltic countries got admitted Russia objected - but they did not take fuirther action on the issue.

The USA meddled internal  affairs of Ukraine by organizing and funding of a coup n Ukraine, resulting in the appointment of an Interim Government of their choice.   Since then most of their appointees are still  in executive positions in th e Government and the whole set-up is based n grant funding  from th e USA  making  it a totally undemocratic proxy state o the USA.

The whole War would have been prevented if the USA did noit continually undermined negotiations.   You just ignore everything  that happened in Ukraine before the War and the serious threats encountered by the Russian -speaking  people of Easztern Ukraine.   The mess the USA  created and nurtured in Ukraine is exactl;y the reason why the War started.   The USA was not nurturing Democracy in Ukraine USA - they were destroying it.

Just think abut it carefully and put yourself in a Russian speaking resident in Eastern Ukraine whose life was under threat and would lose everything due to the fact that there is zero human rights protection in Ukraine.    If you can place yourself in that you would find reasons why a civil war broke out in Eastern Ukraine.    

I am just amazed - I referred to the Open Border Policy of Biden and refer to scrum entering the USA.    Nobody ahs a pro blem with controlled migration on a lawful basis,   The scrum I r4efer to deal with uncontrolled entry of people into the USA.    So you are upset by the term - so you think the millions of people that entered the USA illegally are to be welcomed with open arms,    I get the message though - you are now in  full support of Open borders and warmongering in the USA.    

.    .   .    .      .         .     .     .          

Now you’re just repeating yourself….all those claims have been debunked. And no, as I have said many times the borders need to be controlled. But that’s still no reason to call a group of desperate people scum. 

Ear ear ...........

Mozart

A truly amazing  statement about debunking.   What proof have you got that what I wrote was debunked.   Nuland and the State  Department were  involved.  There was a vdeo n which sh e bagged about the appointing  of a new Government in  Ukraine a after the 2014 coup.   There was a video in which Biden threatened the Ukraine Government with withholding  aid support unless  the Prosecutor investing Burisma is fired.    FACTS BOTH.

Do you deny that an agreement on NATO expansion to countries that used to be part of the Soviet Union existed?

Do you say the claim of extistence of the Minsk Agreement of 2015 existed?

Do you deny that senior Ukraine Government representatives  threatened  Russian speaking  people with ethnic cleansing of h ey do not abandoned their languyage and culture - only of thy do can they remain n Ukraine?

Do you deny that the Ukraine ahs no Constitution at resent and there was sine 2014 a civil war n Ukraine.   

Please indicate who debunked what I wrote abou t above.   

As to the Open Border policy I am delighted that you  claim yu ae against it.     It is bound to be a disaster for the UJSA.      .              

Good responses Mike and Beeno. The ignorant of history are in complete denial and are intoxicated by never ending bullshit narrative that they swallow in gulps. They don't respect the sovereignty and choices of other nations.They are control freaks that think they can laud it over others.

Their memories fade over short periods, they refuse to go back even 10 years let alone further.

The interference goes back in time.

Most if not all don't even know that the Kingdom of Hawaii was overthrown by coup in 1889 and stolen from Queen Lili'uokolani and her people and made a state of USA as is today. The greed factor to steal their sugar.

The tragic fire this year and it's victims received very inadequate support in favour of a corrupt regime over 7800 kilometers away. Disgusting and hypocritical.

The story never changes, lies upon lies, cover up and cover up. Betrayal and not keeping their agreements continues and the self-centred wonder why Russia won't negotiate anymore.

They are being exposed in their true colours, a possible world war could easily break out if they continue and no it's not a threat. There is just so much other nations will tolerate, they have no true allies, only sycophants.The developing nations too are "gatvol" of being bullied and exploited too.

The scary thing is that they are totally blinded by bombardment of false narrative and ideologies. .

6-0 6-0 6-0 to mozart

To the ZBots aka. fake Chrisians, supporters of the evil Putin

143  VS  6

You're a troop of sad f'ups.

The fact is that the USA present policies are sc aring off countries and they are rushing to join BRICS in an effort to protect thmselves.

There are apprently 60 countries worldwide applying for admission to BRICS as a security measure from the USA and NATO operations.    Even traditional allies of the USA are amongst  three new members (Egypt, Saudi-Arabia and the Gulf States have been allies of he USA for many years,    There are others in the application line and Macron in fact wanted an invitation to the latest  BRICS summit.   Turkey - a NATO member is already in the application line to become a member.  

What happened as a result of the chaotic withddrawal of USA troops has scared the shit out o many countries,   anyway.            

The USA in particular enter into agreements with other countries and they cannot be relied on to keep to those agreements.   In cases like  Menendez and Biden, the USA would make the bribery and corruption anyway.     .    .   . 

Poor old Mozart having his butt  kicked well and truly.

Every illigal migrant legally is a. Criminal.  Tell me why some people can simply March over the border, millions of them while others who come legally have to wait years.

There maybe some who are okay, but they must come in legally like anybody else. 

No no ou Mozzz is hoping illegal immigration will under cut the wages of the American worker and boost profits enhancing g his share values. 

Mike absolutely right. The scum of the earth is also pouring in. Drug, sex, child, human traffickers. 300 people a day die of fentanyle alone. Schools, hospital, housing are strained to breaking. The Marxist Mayor of NY a sanctuary city is complaining bitterly.

I find your lies Mozzzzquito totally disgusting. You are a Globalist traitor to America.

I hope you can see your statements have been completely demolished. Like the scumbags at the WEF you don't give a damn about your fellow man. As a Globalist  ilite you think you will thrive under the Planned WEF tyranny.

Spending as much time of various boards like Twitter, Gab, Getter, Truth Social and other websites 8 can say there many excellent decent Americans appalled what the Globalist Uniparty has done to America. 

Personally I would rather live in Russia than in Globalist ruled America. 

The answer is to kick the Globalist scumbags out and try many of them for treason. 

Let's see what happens. 

81000 Ukrainians dead on the counteroffensive.

Russians have a special bot line now for Ukros wanting to surrender. Those poor youngsters dragged off the streets on Kiev and forced into a meat grinder,a way out.