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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Out of Putin’s war and Trump’s treachery, a new Europe is being born

Out of Putin’s war and Trump’s treachery, a new Europe is being born

Started by bobbok...20 REPLIES843 VIEWS· 13 Mar 2025, 05:11
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BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
13 Mar 2025, 05:11
#1
13 Mar 2025, 05:11#1
Out of Putin’s war and Trump’s treachery, a new Europe is being born

The EU has its Trojan horses and Nato’s cornerstone has crumbled. But European allies, includIng the UK, are bound by an urgent shared purpose

Nathalie Tocci




Out of Putin’s war and Trump’s treachery, a new Europe is being born

Nathalie Tocci


The EU has its Trojan horses and Nato’s cornerstone has crumbled. But European allies, including the UK, are bound by an urgent shared purpose

Wed 12 Mar 2025 06.00 GMT



Moscow’s immense military mobilisation is clearly not aimed just at Ukraine. Unless Vladimir Putin accepts a ceasefire with meaningful security guarantees there will be no end in sight to the war. If anything, we could see the extension of Russia’s aggression beyond Ukraine. The bleak reality is that Europe still faces an unprecedented threat and notwithstanding signs of progress for Ukraine at talks in Jeddah, we face it alone.

Worse, we now have to confront it with the US working against us. Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump appear to share a plan: a Vichy-like regime in Ukraine and a European continent split into spheres of influence, which Russia, the US (and perhaps China) can colonise and prey upon. Most European publics sense this. A critical mass of European leaders gets it too. They are beginning to act.


Their response is forming the basis for a different kind of Europe from the one we have known for decades, the Europe that was built in peacetime. That Europe sealed peace internally (mainly through close-knit economic and monetary interdependency). Externally, its security was largely guaranteed by the US via Nato. Through the defence alliance, European countries acted as loyal transatlantic allies. They allowed Washington to reap significant gains from the treaty, starting with the US defence industry. Europeans also obediently followed Washington in its follies, such as the invasion of Iraq in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein.

All along, the EU could afford to be slow and cumbersome; there was no rush. It was wiser to painstakingly construct the “common European home”, gradually weaving together joint interests and believing that a common European identity would slowly emerge.

War in Europe however, and the unreliability of the US as an ally means we have to accept that the post-1945 and the post-1989 Europes are gone.

A new Europe is being born however; and it is easier to say what it is not than what it is. It is not the EU, or not the one we have long taken for granted. The 27-country union is simply not equipped to take decisions with the speed and level of ambition necessary to confront the dramatic, life-or-death, fast-changing geopolitical and security moment its citizens face. Moreover, the EU now includes Trojan horses such as Hungary’s Viktor Orbán and the populist nationalist Robert Fico, prime minister of Slovakia, who are plainly working on behalf of Putin’s Russia and Trump’s US.


The US embrace of Russia is an existential threat to the EU. Germany must step up to save it

Catherine De Vries


Read more

This is why we have seen European leaders including Emmanuel Macron and Keir Starmer becoming the dominant voices, shifting into crisis mode, convening emergency summits in their respective capitals; invitation lists carefully curated. But Eurosceptics, including those in the Trump administration who are hoping this means that a dysfunctional EU has been sidelined and rendered irrelevant, are off the mark.

The Europe that is being born is not entirely separate from the EU either. Brussels institutions, and especially the European Commission, the bloc’s executive body, are deeply involved in the construction of the new Europe. The landmark relaxation of eurozone fiscal rules agreed last week to permit a massive increase in spending to “rearm Europe”, the establishment of new financial instruments to support Europe’s defence, the completion of the EU single market, and the push for a much bigger common EU budget, better tailored to the strategic priorities facing the continent, will all ensure that the Brussels institutions are in the driver’s seat. No wonder that Trump studiously seeks to avoid engaging with Ursula von der Leyen. It’s precisely because the commission still matters.

The new Europe is not Nato either. Not because Europeans have turned their backs on it. But the US has. The US currently has more than 100,000 military personnel deployed in Europe, 10,000 in Poland alone, with 40 military bases across the continent. We are likely to see a partial (or even total) withdrawal of US forces from eastern Europe, and perhaps beyond.

And given that the Atlantic alliance relied on trust and the conviction, among allies and adversaries alike, that article 5 of the Nato treaty (which says that an attack on one is an attack on all) was for real, the question today is whether Nato still exists. Over the last decade at least, there had been some doubt as to whether the US would have actually defended a small European country under attack. But the doubt was sufficient to act as deterrence. Today, is there any doubt at all that if a small (or large) European country were attacked, Trump would not come to the rescue?

But the new Europe being born also can’t be simply characterised as “not Nato”. Nato members outside the EU are playing a key role. The UK, first and foremost, but also Norway, Canada and Turkey, all of which are expected to help provide security guarantees for Ukraine. In different ways and with different political sensitivities and even interests, they all share the sense that a Putin-Trump convergence on Ukraine (and beyond) represents a threat.

So here we have a Europe that is and isn’t the EU; is and isn’t Nato – it is a “coalition of the willing”, united by a shared sense of threat, urgency and purpose but which cannot have a a sole leadership figure.

One country’s leader would never be accepted by others in the coalition, while the figurehead of an institution, be it the EU or Nato, would end up representing some but not all of the countries involved.

This is a new Europe, coordinated by leaders such as Macron, Starmer, the incoming German chancellor Friedrich Merz and Poland’s Donald Tusk. They share threat perceptions and the will to address them. After all, European countries, put together, are among the richest and most powerful in the world. The European Commission, led by von der Leyen, can, will and must play a key supporting role. Saving Ukraine is a necessary condition for securing Europe. Can they succeed? If they can muster a fraction of Winston Churchill’s strategic vision, Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s courage and Barack Obama’s hope, then, yes, they can.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Mar 2025, 05:18
#2
13 Mar 2025, 05:18#2

Typical BS from The Guardian. Not worth the time to read it.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
13 Mar 2025, 05:23
#3
13 Mar 2025, 05:23#3

Jou gat ............... jislaaik, & I've sacrificed blood, sweat & tears getting this to you. Shame on your sorry ass .



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Mar 2025, 05:52
#4
13 Mar 2025, 05:52#4

This shit from the dwarf from Texas that preach typical University propaganda and call it economics. The USA was run by coruption and Mafia style operations and shit like Schiff is well on their way to jail for corrupt activities by a Mafia style extirtion method. method, Trump is being blamed for cleamimg out maladministration and corruption in the USA and that is the end of the story,


.



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
13 Mar 2025, 08:56
#5
13 Mar 2025, 08:56#5

Lol, start appreciating the effort at least Mike

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
13 Mar 2025, 09:38
#6
13 Mar 2025, 09:38#6

Fkg hell, this my first c&p since gawd alone knows when ......................

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Mar 2025, 16:56
#7
19 Mar 2025, 16:56#7

And it was BS you copid -LOL

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Mar 2025, 18:45
#8
19 Mar 2025, 18:45#8

Starmer and Macron will achieve sweet fck all...

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
19 Mar 2025, 20:28
#9
19 Mar 2025, 20:28#9

Starmer and Macron will achieve sweet fck all...


Yeah right, they should just roll over and let Putin do whatever he wants to do.


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
19 Mar 2025, 20:30
#10
19 Mar 2025, 20:30#10

Fkg hell, this my first c&p since gawd alone knows when ......................


BB don't waste your time explaining......it's a waste of time.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2025, 02:11
#11
20 Mar 2025, 02:11#11

If it’s all a waste of time….the intelligent response would be to stop.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
20 Mar 2025, 03:29
#12
20 Mar 2025, 03:29#12

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/06/us-russia-eu-germany-donald-trump-friedrich-merz-military-economic




In February 1945, three world leaders – Winston Churchill, Franklin D Roosevelt and Josef Stalin – met in Crimea for the Yalta conference, to discuss the new world order they would implement after the soon-to-end second world war.

Smaller nations were given no say in deciding their fate. The Soviet sphere of influence would infest eastern Europe for decades and US foreign policy dominated the second half of the 20th century. Churchill resisted the end of the UK’s global empire and independence for Britain’s colonies came piecemeal; they were let go with bitterness.


Eighty years on, the logic present at Yalta – that large states can impose their will on smaller states – is back. Might is once again right. But history is repeating itself with a striking difference – for this time, there is no European leader at the table. Russian and US delegations have sat down to discuss Ukraine’s future without Ukraine or the EU’s input. Eighty years down the line, Europe is no longer seen as relevant by the great powers.

The urgency of Europe’s shifting geopolitical landscape was laid bare last Sunday in London, where European leaders gathered with their counterparts from the UK, Canada, Turkey, the EU and Nato for a high-level defence summit. That meeting came as a result of the very public collapse of White House talks between Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Donald Trump, and Trump’s suspension of military aid to Ukraine.


EU leaders talk the talk on defence. But where will they find the billions to pay for it?

Paul Taylor


Read more

Even if a reported reconciliation between Washington and Kyiv materialises, European officials are still reeling from the rapidity of the transatlantic rupture so early in Trump’s second term. Trump’s defence secretary, Pete Hegseth, last month warned Europe it could no longer rely on US security guarantees. JD Vance, the US vice-president, went further at the Munich Security Conference, calling Europe – not Russia or China – the primary US threat.

Pax Americana – the postwar period of relative peace in the western hemisphere, with the US as the dominant economic, cultural and military world power – is over. Europe will quickly have to adapt to the new reality, with the loss of its primary strategic and military partner. What part now will the EU’s largest member state, Germany, play?

Despite large gains by the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), which doubled its support in the federal election on 23 February, Germany will be led by Friedrich Merz, head of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU). The chancellor-in-waiting lost no time in declaring that Europe, faced with an increasingly adversarial US, must take its fate into its own hands.

“It is my absolute priority to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible so that we can actually become independent from the US step by step,” Merz said, hours after his election victory. Stark words from a politician who as recently as a few months ago was a bona fide Atlanticist.

Merz wants to forge greater unity in Europe and establish an independent European defence capability. It remains to be seen how he will go about achieving this, but he clearly aims to put Germany back into the European driving seat.

German leadership has been lacking in recent years. While Paris and Warsaw took increasingly assertive positions on European security, Berlin has remained cautious. After the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, the chancellor, Olaf Scholz, spoke of a Zeitenwende – a turning point in German policy to reflect the new realities of the world. But, in the end, little but hot air was produced.

Since the end of the second world war, Germany has invested relatively little in military capacity. Under the Nato umbrella, and with the close partnership with the US, this was not seen as a problem. But the world has fundamentally shifted, and Merz sees that Germany, finally, must change, too.

However, an emboldened new Germany, at the head of the EU, faces a harsh world and an even harsher set of realities. The country will not only have to increase its military capacity, bring about bloc-wide military cooperation and perhaps even station troops in Ukraine, but it will also have to pay for all of this.

This will require overhauling Germany’s strict ceiling on public borrowing, the so-called Schuldenbremse (debt brake) enshrined in the constitution. Merz has now begun that process; on Tuesday, his party struck agreement with its prospective coalition partners, the SPD, on the creation of a special €500bn (£390bn) fund to boost defence and infrastructure spending that would be exempt from the debt constraint. If approved by the German parliament, this would amount to a dramatic and some critics warn risky loosening of the budgetary straitjacket.


Merz will also have to rally the EU (though Trump’s harrying of Europe and Zelenskyy is already pushing European leaders toward his vision), as well as face down Trump-friendly far-right parties, many of them in ascendence across the bloc.

At a recent meeting in Madrid of the rightwing radical bloc of the European parliament, the Patriots for Europe, Geert Wilders, leader of the far-right PVV in the Netherlands, praised Trump as a “brother in arms”. Slovakia’s prime minister, Robert Fico, expressed his support for Trump’s pro-Russian policy at the rightwing Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Maryland last month. AfD co-leader Alice Weidel has said that “Trump is implementing the policies that the AfD has been demanding for years”.

These rightist politicians seem willing to risk Europe’s security and prosperity for political gain. The US turn toward Russia and away from democracy will be an existential test for the European project and Europe’s commitment to law and democracy. The art of European cooperation has long been to achieve the possible in unforeseen circumstances. Germany, under chancellor-elect Merz, has a steep learning curve ahead. But the task of stepping up to save Ukraine – and Europe – falls to Berlin.

  1. Catherine De Vries is professor of political science at Bocconi University in Milan
  2. Do you have an opinion on the issues raised in this article? If you would like to submit a response of up to 300 words by email to be considered for publication in our letters section, please click here.

Explore more on these topics

  1. Germany
  2. Opinion
  3. Trump administration
  4. Donald Trump
  5. European Union
  6. Friedrich Merz
  7. Alternative für Deutschland (AfD)
  8. Europe
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BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
20 Mar 2025, 03:39
#13
20 Mar 2025, 03:39#13

Nevertheless Batshit1 uses the occasion to promote a fkng game of ice hockey ............ last week was WhiteHouseTeslaWeek.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Mar 2025, 06:12
#14
20 Mar 2025, 06:12#14

TeslaWeek...I wonder why that should be necessary??? Absolute despicable terrorism...and the hockey what could be the purpose?


Here we stand or here we fall

History won't care at all

Make the bed light the light

Lady mercy won't be home tonight yeah

You don't waste no time at all

Don't hear the bell but you answer the call

It comes to you as to us all

We're just waiting

For the Hammer To Fall

Oh ev'ry night and every day

A little piece of you is falling away

But lift your face the western way

Build your muscles as your body decays yeah

Toe your line and play their game yeah

Let the anaesthetic cover it all

Till one day they call your name

You know it's time for the Hammer To Fall

Rich or poor or famous

For your truth it's all the same (oh no oh no)

Lock your door the rain is pouring

Through your window pane (oh no)

Baby now your struggle's all in vain

For we who grew up tall and proud

In the shadow of the mushroom cloud

Convinced our voices can't be heard

We just wanna scream it louder and louder louder

What the hell we fighting for?

Just surrender and it won't hurt at all

You just got time to say your prayers

While your waiting for the hammer to Hammer To Fall

It's gonna fall

Hammer, you know, Hammer To Fall

While you're waiting for the Hammer To Fall

Give it to me one more time

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
20 Mar 2025, 07:11
#15
20 Mar 2025, 07:11#15

sdfg

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Mar 2025, 07:39
#16
20 Mar 2025, 07:39#16

Netso!

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
20 Mar 2025, 07:57
#17
20 Mar 2025, 07:57#17

Any of you ever play Ice Hokey?


I was left winger for the Carlton Pee Wee team. The kids from Cresta were our big enemies.


Gosh it was fun and dang I used to be quick.


I still remember our coach, who was also the manager(or owner) of the Ice Rink. The man didn't have a clue. He had two words, "Pass!" And "Skate!". We used to call him Blackie, but he was Italian or Portuguese.


Gosh, so many memories.



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Mar 2025, 16:22
#18
20 Mar 2025, 16:22#18

Will definitely get a bit into ice hockey spectating if I make it to the Promised Land of the US of A...

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
20 Mar 2025, 16:59
#19
20 Mar 2025, 16:59#19

Any of you ever play Ice Hokey?


One of the NHL games from EA, think 07, was one of my favourite sports games ever. Had a blast with it, from the actual gameplay to exchanging and trading players etc. But that's the closest I've come.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Mar 2025, 18:33
#20
20 Mar 2025, 18:33#20

Not too many ice rinks in these parts....

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2025, 06:29
#21
22 Mar 2025, 06:29#21

Back to the original topic, What is pasted above by especially unmaduklterated BS, One has to find any evidence at all that what is quoted is factual BS and is destroyed by facts, Russia is not going to get everyhing they want and neither will Ukraine, I an agreement is reached the fact is that S tarmer and Macron is regularly appraised on what is happening.


Without any factuak information they believe in BS, Fact is the NATO countries that met in London re;ized the cannot enforce anything without the USA and they want a negotiated settlement as well because the presen situation is hurting them badly, Nobody wats a real war with Russia - they ahve allowed their defense forces deteriorate toa level that makes themselves defenseless and nobody wants a war wih Russia and realized their proxy War is bloody and Ukraine is being destroyed.


The fact is that Ukraine is becoming the root cause of inflation and idustrial collapse plaguing NATO countries and the woke culture has destroyed loyalty to the countries and peiple in France and Germany are afraid of the internal terrorism by Muslim fanatics they let into their countries. They themselves are aseein g what damage reason play in destroying the Democrats in the USA, In the latest survey only 29% of the voters view the Democrats in a favorable light, In France and Germany the Governing parties collapsed The fact is in Germany in trevvent elections the Parties went into decline and badly so, In the 2021 election compared to 2025 is s follows:-


2021 2024

Socialist 29% 15%

CDU.CSU 28% 28%

Greens 16% 9%

Free Democrats 12% 4%

AfD 9% 21%

Linke 5% 6%


The Socialists, Greens and Free Democrats were in a coalition Government lost massive support and th main problem si that Greens - that was a major reason for collapse of support as a Party pulling the others down with it is the Green fanatical policies th is destroying German industry was damaging German agriculture as well, So people are searching waste bins for food in what iwas supposed to have the 3rd biffest industrial base and is now down to the 5th strongest economy in the world, The younger voters that would have to support any enlargement of the German army will not serve in teha rmy sicne they will have to fight for the interets of some career politicians and nt for their country. The majority of younger voters do not support the crazy Woke ideas and fear that the German culture sis being destroyed - this is based on opinion polls held before the recent polls. How long the en coalition in Germany - based on an establishment system - is going to last is debatable, The Bavarian branch of the CDU - known as the CDU - is the strongest component of the CSU/CDU alliance and for them Merz sis regrde as a sell-out and his Government may last a year before he is gone as leader, Whatsoever, the Greens support the CDU wil oppose, Do a strong German Government is a fairy tale.


France is een in a worse situation, Before the parliamentary election in June 2024 the Political Party estbalished by Mcron had 366 members in the French Parliament - it now has 145 supportes and what they wom tha manys es with te support of the Socialist/Communist alliance are now the majority Party in Parliament with 32% viote support, Even macron's Paty would be against the appointment of the leader of the Communist Party - so Macron appointed the current leader of the Republican Party - the Zarkosy Party - as Prime Minister. Th bloke concerned iss the Mayor of twon in central Fance and his position i so insecure he refised trsign as Maor when eh was appointed by Macron. 50% of the voters believe that a civil war in France is inevitable due in particular to the EU version f Open Borders, France is a power keg that can explode at any. time.


After the Netherlands election at the end of 2023 it was impossible to gform a Government and in the end a non-politician was appointed as Prime Minister and his decisionmaking powe is limie and depends largely f he majrity Party in the Dutch Parliament partners - the two righwing parties.


Poland is governed by a coalition Government as well and the Polish Prime Minister depends on a Party with strained relations with teh Zelenskyy Government in Ukraine.


The above is what is happening in Europe from a political perspectvie. None of the countries mentioned will built strong armies and economies - that is what is the farce about the present scenario and developig NATO into a strong military force stong enough to resist any country wishing to attack NATO is an ubelievable farce, That is why Starmer and Macron support Trump's negotiations with Russia - they don't inmdivdually amd even united have the clout to enforce anything when it comes to te Ukraine War and the NATO countries support Trumps negotiation process led by Trump.


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— END OF THREAD —

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