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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Putin’s new Europe

Putin’s new Europe

Started by Mozart20 REPLIES1,200 VIEWS· 13 Mar 2022, 17:15
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Mar 2022, 17:15
#1
13 Mar 2022, 17:15#1

The NYTimes raises the prospect of Europe finally acting like a Super Power and playing a proper role in the world. 


Europe’s assertive response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has presented a possibility that was hard to imagine a month ago: the European Union as a superpower that can alter the global order, promoting liberal democratic values worldwide.

Before the war, the E.U. focused largely on economic growth. It resisted calls, particularly from the U.S., to increase its military spending and become more self-sufficient at defending Europe.

Vladimir Putin’s invasion drove European countries to be more aggressive. They imposed tough sanctions, helping to cripple Russia’s economy, and are working to cut off trade from Russia. They have sent weapons and other aid to Ukraine. Several moved to increase military spending, and E.U. leaders met in France over the past few days to coordinate their efforts. The leaders of France and Germany pressed Putin yesterday in a phone call to agree to a cease-fire.

Europe’s new commitments could help counter the global democratic backslideof the past 15 or so years. Democracies’ failure to stand up for themselves partly enabled that shift. But a tougher Europe, as well as other countries’ fierce response to Russia’s invasion, shows that democracies are still willing to wield power to counter autocratic governments.

“Democratic nations and people are sending a united message to Putin that democracy matters, and authoritarians cannot act with impunity, and that’s powerful,” said Michael Abramowitz, the president of Freedom House, which tracks the state of democracy around the world.

The E.U. is often fractious, made up of nations and ethnic groups that warred with each other for centuries and have different, sometimes competing interests and values. Britain’s vote in 2016 to leave the union shows how far such divisions can go.

But the E.U. has moved in a more united direction over time. Though it is not a single country, in many ways it acts like one. What began as a loose organization of six nations now includes most of the continent’s population, with 27 countries as members. Most share a currency and open their borders to each other, and they all send representatives to legislative, executive and judicial branches with powers across all aspects of European life.

The E.U.’s response to Russia’s invasion was another unifying step — one that could push Europe from its passive role to an influential democratic force around the world.

A sleeping Europe

Europe’s previous inaction is rooted in World War II. After the atrocities of war and the Holocaust, Germany leaned toward pacifism, refusing to build up its military or ship its weapons to conflict zones. As the E.U.’s most populous and wealthiest member, its approach had a large impact on the continent.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine suddenly forced the continent’s leaders to confront the prospect that their stance was failing one of the foundational goals of the E.U.: to prevent war in Europe. In what sounds like a paradox, the E.U. might need greater military power to deter more war.

“Peace was taken for granted,” Jana Puglierin, a senior policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations, told me. That’s no longer the case, she added.

Germany moved within days of the invasion to spend more to rebuild its military. Others made similar commitments, including Austria, Denmark and Sweden this past week. More E.U. and NATO members are likely to follow, experts said.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Mar 2022, 17:25
#2
13 Mar 2022, 17:25#2

The prospect of a closer Russian/Chinese alliance also demands Europe emerge from it’s 75 year slumber. A combination of the US and Europe acting in unison and arming in unison should far outrank  the Chinese/Russian partnership. 

The West needs to use it’s economic power to contain the despots. It worked in the 80s forcing the Soviet Union into collapse. If Europe arms to the NATO requirements or a bit more, the Russian bear can be caged. Ukraine with inadequate weaponry has still shown up Russia’s WW2 army.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Mar 2022, 17:38
#3
13 Mar 2022, 17:38#3

Glad you think Russia and China are retarded countries and the European countries can come up with anything?    The woke culture has taken over and whatever they come up with is negative.  

Europe is not united as they pretend they are.   Countries like Poland and Hungary put the interest of the countries before those of Europe and showed some backbone.    The EU has a number of Governments that would not move one inch to oppose anybody and they have weak coalition Governments.

Europe is even more gutless than the US Government - especially bribed by China, Russia,  Ukraine and Iran is and if you think the EU countries armies trust  the US  generals after the Afghanistan disaster - you should have another nightmare and wake up thinking.   

Change the Biden disaster with another Government and things may work out the way you think - but that is not possible under the present Regime in the USA.      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Mar 2022, 17:52
#4
13 Mar 2022, 17:52#4
A simple fact for you Simpleton. Europe and the US have more than twice the GNP of China and Russia…..and an even higher per capita lead. If they spend the same percentage as the despots…their weaponry will be twice as large.
Your love affair with Russia is amusing though.
SE
SebPro2,680 posts
13 Mar 2022, 18:13
#5
13 Mar 2022, 18:13#5

"the Russian Bear can be caged"

This western point of view shows no clue of understanding of Russian people. Never have and never will. The disbanding of the Soviet government was the Russian choice and they were happy with that as long as Russia could remain Russia and it's values respected and other countries don't interfere, they had no sentiment of the other states where people are vastly different, ie Georgia, Latvia, Estonia etc.

They wanted to extend their hand in friendship to USA and other countries as long as they respected their security along it's borders and kept their distance. Such agreements were drawn during Gorbachev's time as leader to reach an agreement on accepted terms, but Gorbachev was negligent and weak and did not have stronger measures in place to make sure that the west deal was properly sealed. Gorbachev is hated in Russia and seen as a traitor, weak and cowardly.

USA is so understandly distr usted by what clearly is a breach and see the hypocrisy of Iraq, Libia, Syria etc. The trust is broken and they never trust them because of this. When "Operation  Unthinkable" was exposed many years after the ww2, through a spy, most Russians were horrified. It was a betrayal of an ally, even when USA was still fighting Japan.

Russia will never surrender even at the highest cost, their hardiness, resilience and ability to withstand the most impossible conditions are well known.

Remember the battles of Stalingrad, if you don't know a full account of it and are interested to know why, read about it.

Napoleon tried, Hitler too. There's no need to say more.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Mar 2022, 18:13
#6
13 Mar 2022, 18:13#6

Mozart

So how are Europe going to find the armies to fight for them?  By  importing refugees from the Mideast and  Africa?   

I do not have a love affair with Russia - I am just writing what is real.   Fine about the GN P - but that may pay for wars not fight them?    

By the way Russia has never been conquered by any country in the world and I would not advocate a war against them.   I have no support for Russia - I am just being realistic.

Now back to a question - why did the US Defense Deportment funded bio research labs in Ukraine?    What is this love affair of the US to fund laboratories in other countries?          

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 Mar 2022, 18:34
#7
13 Mar 2022, 18:34#7
Moz I feel for you. Another insightful post and article…met with pure gobbledegook from Mike. Must admit, your posts are often times the only things that are worth reading on here.
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
13 Mar 2022, 20:07
#8
13 Mar 2022, 20:07#8

Is it possible that DumbMike writes all of his posts on the toilet with constipation?

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
13 Mar 2022, 21:50
#9
13 Mar 2022, 21:50#9

When I take the time to read  any of Mike's post (and my brain cells hate me for it) all I can think of is Tony Montana's cocaine mountain at the end of Scarface and that he snorts the entire thing after watching a a news feed or reads up on history before posting here.

You read it here first folks, it wasn't Pontius Pilate who ordered Jesus execution but it was in fact Dr Fauci, after Jesus was about to expose the US had funded Roman biolabs in Jerusalem.   



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 Mar 2022, 21:58
#10
13 Mar 2022, 21:58#10
Stav You often make sense too, though i disagree with almost everything you have to say. At least it’s reasonably logical. VisKop, one day you’ll have something worthwhile to say.
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
13 Mar 2022, 22:48
#11
13 Mar 2022, 22:48#11
The free world united very quickly against an authoritarian dictator. It has created a solidarity some say has not been as strong since WW2. 

 It is worrying that one person, and not a group of people can decide to pull the Nuclear trigger. 
Especially if that one person is worried about losing power, and potentially get sentenced for war crimes. 
Modern day weapons require modern day civilization, and authoritarianism is just not compatible with the 21st century. 

It is worrying that some reports suggest 70% of Russians support the war. 
Yes, Yes the West has corruption, but it is less corrupt. 
USA:
It is certainly something for the US to ponder, as they almost lost their freedom to Trump, who tried to cheat in the election to stay in power despite the certified election results.
Some of the white nationalist far righters have been keen to appoint Trump as leader, but Putin reminds the world that an Authoritarian leader is never the way to go. They just go crazy the longer they stay in power, while becoming more authoritarian by the day. 

Europe:
Eastern European countries have made their intent clear- they want to stick with the free world and their Western EU partners. They are bound at the hip. Other European countries want to join the EU, and NATO will also grow. Ukraine clearly will want to join NATO and the EU. 

If the West could remove the corruption and stop political lobbyists pretending to be politicians,  it can continue to progress. The ideology would spread more across the world. 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
13 Mar 2022, 22:52
#12
13 Mar 2022, 22:52#12

@ButtPlug, for once your are not going along with the conspiracies that DumbMike repeatedly uses to take a dump. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Mar 2022, 10:07
#13
14 Mar 2022, 10:07#13

Listen dimshit - it is not conspiracy theories like the Russian Hoaxes we lived with for the past five years and you supported all out.   In other words do you know what a conspiracy theory really is?   

There is ample evidence that the bio-labs in Ukraine exist and that they are funded by the US Defense Department - so that is not a conspiracy theory.    Dishonest Governments implement  and use conspiracy theories to justify their actions.

The problems the Russians have in Ukraine should have been negotiated on a goodwill basis  and that never happened.   The BRICS  Countries know what happened and clearly said there were no real negotiations other than threats on the part of the US Government and they will make sure the Sanctions will not work. 

The call they are making is for negotiations be started by an independent negotiator who will not be bullied by any of Russia, the USA and for that matter  anybody else,               

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
14 Mar 2022, 23:01
#14
14 Mar 2022, 23:01#14







CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Mar 2022, 08:12
#15
15 Mar 2022, 08:12#15

SB 

You are in love with that bedhopping whore who advanced her career by sleeping with the then Govenor of California and is totally clueless  about everything she has to deal with?   

I am trying to explain to you that there will be no World War 111 unless started by the dementia idiot now President of the USA whose handlers are the main danger to Democracy in the USA with their open border policy, their sabotage of the oil mining industry and the Legalization of Election Fraud legislation they are trying to implement nationally - despite the fact that in terms of the US Constitution elections are the responsibility of the States and not the Federal Government.

Give me just one example where Trump undermined the US Constitution of the USA - and do not come up with the election outcome story.   Remember that Clinton never recognized the Trump win in 2016 and he Democrats committed high treason by their Russian Hoax lies and used that to undermine the Trump Administration for his whole term of office.   Trump's decisions was never declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.   Compare that with Biden's record thus far.

You live in a crazy world created by the fake media lies used to brainwash what little part of your brain are supposed to be used for thinking.     You have no proof of anything you ever write on site other than fake media stories.        

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
15 Mar 2022, 09:11
#16
15 Mar 2022, 09:11#16
This is a good example of just how biased and brainwashed the Trumpanzees are. 
Ou Maaik has never once expressed any issue with Bozo using campaign funds to pay for various hookers, he's never had a problem with Bozo screwing around with a porn star (while his wife was pregnant), he's never mentioned Bozo paying Russian prostitutes to urinate on him in a Moscow hotel room and he's been quiet on all the many rape and sexual harrassment charges levelled against Bozo . . . not one peep about any of those things that the unfaithful, thrice married, womanizing, groping rapist has done. . . but let Kamala Harris date a California prosecutor before her one and only marriage, and ou Maaik labels her a "bedhopping whore".
I get the feeling ou Maaik is one of those old school chauvinist pigs who applies different standards to women than he does to men but this is repulsive even by ou Maaik's low standards.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Mar 2022, 13:58
#17
15 Mar 2022, 13:58#17

You wrote two paragraphs and both are unproven BS spouted by a brainwashed  CNN lunatic and they concocted lies and then spread them as facts.   If there was any truth in that Trump would have been charged with a criminal offence and he never was. 

Harris  slept with Brown when he was Governor of California  to enhance her political career and nobody ever denied it.   It has been proven and the fact is that she did what whores did to get ahead in the political field and other fields of operation.     

So keep on spouting lies and BS concocted by your Democratic Party heroes.    .You are a brain-deficient idiot who believes the shit they are spreading - so that is where we are on every issue  you raise on site.          

  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Mar 2022, 14:00
#18
15 Mar 2022, 14:00#18


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
15 Mar 2022, 14:24
#19
15 Mar 2022, 14:24#19

"If there was any truth in that Trump would have been charged with a criminal offence and he never was. "

Huh? Is it a criminal offence to sleep with a porn star while your wife is pregnant? Is it a criminal offence to pay Russian prostitutes to urinate all over you?

What are you talking about, ou Maaik? I know you are irrevocably stupid but read here to see a long list of allegations of sexual misconduct by your perverted hero and ask yourself if it's all just a big co incidence or if it's normal to have that many accusations filed against you. 

You are a stupid, deceitful, low-life with no respect for women . . . despite having big tits of your own. 

Okay, this is where you go all purple-faced with rage and smash the submit button multiple times again. Go ahead, dumbo.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Mar 2022, 07:14
#20
16 Mar 2022, 07:14#20

No dim idiot - it is a criminal offence to use campaign funding for personal purposes like you claimed.   That law applies to Republicans - but not Democrats where using campaign funding for personal purposes is normal and never dealt with by the Justice Department - even Swallwel who entertained from campaign funds  and slept with a Chinese spy was never raised by the fake media.

I respect woman and detest lowlife females using sex to enhance careers.  

You are a totally brainwashed idiot and believe the junk in the fake media.   That is not lowlife - it is craziness and hatred making you a total imbecile anyway.               

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Mar 2022, 07:14
#21
16 Mar 2022, 07:14#21

No dim idiot - it is a criminal offence to use campaign funding for personal purposes like you claimed.   That law applies to Republicans - but not Democrats where using campaign funding for personal purposes is normal and never dealt with by the Justice Department - even Swallwel who entertained from campaign funds  and slept with a Chinese spy was never raised by the fake media.

I respect woman and detest lowlife females using sex to enhance careers.  

By the way I do not approve the conduct of Trump as a private individual happening long before he became involved in politics - but at least he was a good president and helped the people of the USA to improve their lives.  Vastly different from Biden - who are destroying the USA and democracy and admired by you.

    

You are a totally brainwashed idiot and believe the junk in the fake media.   That is not lowlife - it is craziness and hatred making you a total imbecile anyway.               

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