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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Russia in Agreement with Trump'erica' Security Strategy.

Russia in Agreement with Trump'erica' Security Strategy.

Started by sharkbok31 REPLIES546 VIEWS· 08 Dec 2025, 20:38
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sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
08 Dec 2025, 20:38
#1
08 Dec 2025, 20:38#1

Trump is trying to break up the EU. He talks about strong "countries" in the South, North and East of Europe.


Putin would love the EU to be broken up, and for NATO to end. That would allow him to attack more European countries.


He is insisting that American product and services must have preferential access to the European Market.





C. Promoting European Greatness American officials have become used to thinking about European problems in terms of insufficient military spending and economic stagnation. There is truth to this, but Europe’s real problems are even deeper. Continental Europe has been losing share of global GDP—down from 25 percent in 1990 to 14 percent today—partly owing to national and transnational regulations that undermine creativity and industriousness.


But this economic decline is eclipsed by the real and more stark prospect of civilizational erasure. The larger issues facing Europe include activities of the European Union and other transnational bodies that undermine political liberty and sovereignty, migration policies that are transforming the continent and creating strife, censorship of free speech and suppression of political opposition, cratering birthrates, and loss of national identities and self-confidence.


Should present trends continue, the continent will be unrecognizable in 20 years or less. As such, it is far from obvious whether certain European countries will have economies and militaries strong enough to remain reliable allies. Many of these nations are currently doubling down on their present path. We want Europe to remain European, to regain its civilizational self-confidence, and to abandon its failed focus on regulatory suffocation.


This lack of self-confidence is most evident in Europe’s relationship with Russia. European allies enjoy a significant hard power advantage over Russia by almost every measure, save nuclear weapons. As a result of Russia’s war in Ukraine, European relations with Russia are now deeply attenuated, and many Europeans regard Russia as an existential threat.


Managing European relations with Russia will require significant U.S. diplomatic engagement, both to reestablish conditions of strategic stability across the Eurasian landmass, and to mitigate the risk of conflict between Russia and European states. It is a core interest of the United States to negotiate an expeditious cessation of hostilities in Ukraine, in order to stabilize European economies, prevent unintended escalation or expansion of the war, and reestablish strategic stability with Russia, as well as to enable the post-hostilities reconstruction of Ukraine to enable its survival as a viable state.


The Ukraine War has had the perverse effect of increasing Europe’s, especially Germany’s, external dependencies. Today, German chemical companies are building some of the world’s largest processing plants in China, using Russian gas that they cannot obtain at home. The Trump Administration finds itself at odds with European officials who hold unrealistic expectations for the war perched in unstable minority governments, many of which trample on basic principles of democracy to suppress opposition.


A large European majority wants peace, yet that desire is not translated into policy, in large measure because of those governments’ subversion of democratic processes. This is strategically important to the United States precisely because European states cannot reform themselves if they are trapped in political crisis.


Yet Europe remains strategically and culturally vital to the United States. Transatlantic trade remains one of the pillars of the global economy and of American prosperity. European sectors from manufacturing to technology to energy remain among the world’s most robust. Europe is home to cutting-edge scientific research and world-leading cultural institutions. Not only can we not afford to write Europe off—doing so would be self-defeating for what this strategy aims to achieve. American diplomacy should continue to stand up for genuine democracy, freedom of expression, and unapologetic celebrations of European nations’ individual character and history. America encourages its political allies in Europe to promote this revival of spirit, and the growing influence of patriotic European parties indeed gives cause for great optimism


Our goal should be to help Europe correct its current trajectory. We will need a strong Europe to help us successfully compete, and to work in concert with us to prevent any adversary from dominating Europe. America is, understandably, sentimentally attached to the European continent— and, of course, to Britain and Ireland. The character of these countries is also strategically important because we count upon creative, capable, confident, democratic allies to establish conditions of stability and security. We want to work with aligned countries that want to restore their former greatness


Over the long term, it is more than plausible that within a few decades at the latest, certain NATO members will become majority non-European. As such, it is an open question whether they will view their place in the world, or their alliance with the United States, in the same way as those who signed the NATO charter.


Our broad policy for Europe should prioritize:

• Reestablishing conditions of stability within Europe and strategic stability with Russia;

• Enabling Europe to stand on its own feet and operate as a group of aligned sovereign nations, including by taking primary responsibility for its own defense, without being dominated by any adversarial power;

• Cultivating resistance to Europe’s current trajectory within European nations;

Opening European markets to U.S. goods and services and ensuring fair treatment of U.S. workers and businesses;

• Building up the healthy nations of Central, Eastern, and Southern Europe through commercial ties, weapons sales, political collaboration, and cultural and educational exchanges;

• Ending the perception, and preventing the reality, of NATO as a perpetually expanding alliance; and Encouraging Europe to take action to combat mercantilist overcapacity, technological theft, cyber espionage, and other hostile economic practices

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
08 Dec 2025, 21:09
#2
08 Dec 2025, 21:09#2

It is a cesspool of non sense. A disguised forced merger as the US have been hit full face by the growing threat of the Chinese mass market. The US must destroy European nations in order to try to absorb the capital in Europe. Cultural diversity is not good for trade and European countries are too diverse to fit the US plan.

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sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
08 Dec 2025, 23:06
#3
08 Dec 2025, 23:06#3

---



DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
08 Dec 2025, 23:22
#4
08 Dec 2025, 23:22#4

Actually, he's at his best in that role....



ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Dec 2025, 12:24
#5
09 Dec 2025, 12:24#5

Yeah this so called national security plan went down like a bucket of cold sick in Europe. America under Trump is no longer an ally to us. Europe made a very serious mistake in becoming so energy dependent on Russia, appears to have made another in tying itself so closely to the US.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Dec 2025, 12:28
#6
09 Dec 2025, 12:28#6

No POTUS has caused more division than the murderous bastard, Trump.

SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
09 Dec 2025, 13:34
#7
09 Dec 2025, 13:34#7

I think Trump is trying to destabilise the EU, and Putin is his means of doing this. It is in Trump's interest that war continues in Europe.


If he can get Zelensky to cede land, it will make it easier for Russia to start attacking the remainder of Ukraine. This will distract the EU with a forever war.


Anyone who is American and supports Trump can FO.

They are a nation in decline, carried by Big Tech. Europe is Big Tech's biggest market - we need to start fazing them out.


Starting with social media websites. We dont need X and Facebook. Ban these companies, and local Social Media networks will replace them quickly.



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Dec 2025, 16:53
#8
09 Dec 2025, 16:53#8

There is one thing that Trump is correct on, and that is the threat of what Europe will look like in 20 years time, due to mass migration and this increasingly ridiculous censorship of it's citizens....

This is an opinion that I will never change, because I see and hear about what it is doing to Europe on a daily basis....... gradually just getting worse......and for those that don't agree with me, cool..... but nothing will ever change my opinion on this.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Dec 2025, 16:58
#9
09 Dec 2025, 16:58#9

I can't believe that the leader of the free world, Trump, recently stated that "NATO calls me Daddy"

What a totally fucked up thing to say to the world,

Just how moronically stupid and egotistcal can you get

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Dec 2025, 18:30
#10
09 Dec 2025, 18:30#10

"I can't believe that the leader of the free world, Trump, recently stated that "NATO calls me Daddy"

What a totally fucked up thing to say to the world,

Just how moronically stupid and egotistcal can you get"


DumbAss, it's not that I disagree but - out of interest - how is that so much more stupid or egotistical than literally thousands of other idiotic comments he's made over the last decade?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Dec 2025, 18:46
#11
09 Dec 2025, 18:46#11

Childish an idiotic BS,


Europe G DP used ti be 25% of the world GDP - it is now down to 14%. Th decine is largely due t destruction bym mi nrule of the ecnomies by the EU.


The NATO armies is so weak it is incapable to defend themselves = the USA have 100 000 troos in Europe to defend Europe.


With their economies in serious decline who is to blame for it = nobody bar the EU.


.



ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Dec 2025, 20:25
#12
09 Dec 2025, 20:25#12

There is one thing that Trump is correct on, and that is the threat of what Europe will look like in 20 years time, due to mass migration and this increasingly ridiculous censorship of it's citizens....


He's not. Trump, Vance, Musk, they all have a general dislike of the EU/Europe. They see it as some sort of bastion of liberalism that should converted to their ideology and they want to be able to push that ideology via social media without restriction and the promoting of parties in Europe they see as aligned to them.


The EU see's this as American interfering in it's sovereignty, and see's the war in Ukraine as existential security threat so it will push back on those issues if America as appears to be doing pushes these issues too far


I can't believe that the leader of the free world, Trump, recently stated that "NATO calls me Daddy"


Well actually the head of NATO Mark Rutte did actually call him that.


But yeah seeing Trump's comment, I wonder how long European tolerance of him will last. This can't go on forever.

SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
09 Dec 2025, 22:00
#13
09 Dec 2025, 22:00#13

Illegal immigration is a problem. The Democratic mandate is to solve this problem.

The 3rd world population growth is growing too fast, and this is going to cause increasing war and displacement.


However Trump's fake concern for this is a pretext motive. He wants to support far right wing parties because they want to leave the EU. (Or at least some do). Trump would prefer the EU ends as this is a competitor - like China. The far right may also open the market to American products and services, which is Trump's real goal.


Tariffs are just a tool for Trump to get favourable trade deals for America. Manufacturing in America has declined substantially since Trump took office. Low end manufacturing will always be cheaper in countries with weaker currencies. A weaker currency country will make it difficult for these countries to purchase services and products from countries with strong currencies.


China should have a strong currency by now, except for the fact they have 2 currencies.


ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
09 Dec 2025, 22:33
#14
09 Dec 2025, 22:33#14

Illegal immigration is a problem. The Democratic mandate is to solve this problem.


Illegal immigration and asylum are a significant issue and yes the Democratic consensus at the moment is to reduce it. However I believe bad faith actors having negatively distorted the narrative around immigration/asylum.


The 3rd world population growth is growing too fast, and this is going to cause increasing war and displacement.


3rd world population growth while considerably higher than developed countries is actually lower than it was in previous decades. overall population growth is slowing with global population growth expected to hit it's peak in the 2080's.


However Trump's fake concern for this is a pretext motive. He wants to support far right wing parties because they want to leave the EU. (Or at least some do). Trump would prefer the EU ends as this is a competitor - like China. The far right may also open the market to American products and services, which is Trump's real goal.


Yes Trump and his ilk would like to see the EU collapse. It would be the end of economic rival, they would much prefer dealing with European states individually were the US would have the whip hand in any trade negotiations.


Tariffs are just a tool for Trump to get favourable trade deals for America. Manufacturing in America has declined substantially since Trump took office. Low end manufacturing will always be cheaper in countries with weaker currencies. A weaker currency country will make it difficult for these countries to purchase services and products from countries with strong currencies.


China should have a strong currency by now, except for the fact they have 2 currencies.


China is somewhat immune to Trump's tariffs as they can flip the switch on rare earth supply chains to off.



DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Dec 2025, 23:16
#15
09 Dec 2025, 23:16#15

Mike, find yourself a chair then park yourself in the furthest corner in the room, no/one wants to listen to your disgusting utterances

SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
10 Dec 2025, 00:21
#16
10 Dec 2025, 00:21#16

I skipped past DumbMike's diatribe. However, when you mentioned him, I went back and read it


America used to have 40% of global GDP. They have actually shrunk more than the rest of the world.


Other countries have improved, like China, South Korea, etc.

Average IQ might be higher in the East than in the West.


Also, the global population is much higher now, with the rapid population growth in the 3rd world.



BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
10 Dec 2025, 02:59
#17
10 Dec 2025, 02:59#17

Russia is never treated in the document as an enemy of the United States, just as Ukraine is never treated as an ally. Instead, the real enemies, in the eyes of the N.S.S., are migrants and bureaucrats, out to destroy whatever remains of an authentic Europe.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
10 Dec 2025, 03:13
#18
10 Dec 2025, 03:13#18

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/07/kremlin-hails-trump-national-security-strategy-as-aligned-with-russia-vision



Kremlin hails Trump’s national security strategy as aligned with Russia’s vision

The Kremlin has heaped praise on Donald Trump’s latest national security strategy, calling it an encouraging change of policy that largely aligns with Russian thinking.....................


The adjustments that we see correspond in many ways to our vision,” the Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, said on Sunday.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Dec 2025, 08:36
#19
10 Dec 2025, 08:36#19

He's not

Trump absolutely is 100% correct on this.....and so is Tucker on this specific issue...

The recent clamping down and censorship of British citizens, especially from social media posts, is absolutely disgraceful and in my mind even unlawful......

Besides the Linehan arrest by 5 police officers as he landed in the UK..... the recent arrest of Elizabeth Kinney by 11 police officers, whilst she was in the bath was disgraceful, and all of this in front of her children, and for what..... calling someone who had allegedly assaulted her a "Faggot", in private messages that she sent to her friend ....and is now facing a possible 10 year sentence for sending "grossly offensive" messages .....it's bloody madness.

There are apparently 30 - 33 arrests every day in the UK for social media posts, and whilst I could agree with those that are instigating violence or illegal activities, I don't believe that a lot of them fall into that category, especially when you see the recent examples of why people were arrested

But yeah seeing Trump's comment, I wonder how long European tolerance of him will last. This can't go on forever.

I agree, Trump is making too many enemies

Illegal immigration is a problem.

The 3rd world population growth is growing too fast, and this is going to cause increasing war and displacement.

Agreed

Tariffs are just a tool for Trump to get favourable trade deals for America

Exactly what I would expect from any president ...

Trump may not have always done it the most diplomatic or tactful way, but as the president I would fully expect him to always make any deal that is favourable to his own country, and if he didn't, then I would see that as him failing in his duties.


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Dec 2025, 09:00
#20
10 Dec 2025, 09:00#20

Excellent and thought provoking article that was posted today on what is currently happening in the UK

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15369349/A-horror-unfolding-eyes-time-confront-hard-truths-two-Afghan-small-boat-migrants-jailed-raping-15-year-old-girl-SARAH-VINE-uncompromising-message-politicians.html

I agree with everything written here

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
10 Dec 2025, 10:42
#21
10 Dec 2025, 10:42#21

Besides the Linehan arrest by 5 police officers as he landed in the UK..... the recent arrest of Elizabeth Kinney by 11 police officers, whilst she was in the bath was disgraceful, and all of this in front of her children, and for what..... calling someone who had allegedly assaulted her a "Faggot", in private messages that she sent to her friend ....and is now facing a possible 10 year sentence for sending "grossly offensive" messages .....it's bloody madness.


This is a text booked example of right wing misinformation.


Firstly the framing of the arrest, she was in bath and it occurred in front of her children. If the police believe a crime has been committed they go arrest someone, they don't say well geez the person could be in the bath or sitting on the toilet, we better hold off. Also on a slight side note this women supposedly has an only fans account so I doubt she's normally too bothered about people seeing her in a state of undress. As for kids again if an arrest has to be made then it's irrelevant if there is children around.


But here's where we get to the crux of the disinformation.


calling someone who had allegedly assaulted her a "Faggot", in private messages that she sent to her friend ....and is now facing a possible 10 year sentence for sending "grossly offensive" messages .....it's bloody madness.


She wasn't convicted for calling her alleged assailant a "Faggot" though she did say that in a text message. She was convicted of sending multiple abusive and homophobic messages to her friend of whom she had a falling out with it, a charge to which she plead guilty too.


Then we get to the sentencing where of course we see the maximum sentence of 10 years being branded about. But what was her actual sentence a 12 month community order requiring her to undertake 72 hours of unpaid work, 10 days of rehabilitation activities and £364 court costs.


Look at the Daily Mail's headline on this issue,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15302729/Assault-victim-convicted-homophobic-hate-crime.html


It's deliberately designed to mislead you. The fact that this women was allegedly assaulted had nothing to do the charges against her either. Being the victim of crime does not give you right to act abusively towards another person.


There are apparently 30 - 33 arrests every day in the UK for social media posts, and whilst I could agree with those that are instigating violence or illegal activities, I don't believe that a lot of them fall into that category, especially when you see the recent examples of why people were arrested.


But most of them do fall into that category, it's the right wing media in the UK that creates a distorted narrative. I'm not saying all of them are and some of them are not wastes of police time and resources but while people have the right freedom of speech you do not have freedom from consequences.


I remember last year there was outrage over a man who the right wing media claimed was arrested for simply criticizing Keir Starmer. Then when you actually look into it you find that the person was calling for Starmer to be killed.


Social media needs to be regulated, misinformation is just rampant there and it's having dire consequences on society.









CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Dec 2025, 11:36
#22
10 Dec 2025, 11:36#22

Stav


"The EU see's this as American interfering in it's sovereignty, and see's the war in Ukraine as existential security threat so it will push back on those issues if America as appears to be doing pushes these issues too far"


Just a question about the above? I am a bit baffled about the above, D oes it mean the EU i sovereign and the various member countries just provinces or even colonies of the EU - without any reaL power? If that is realy the case it is not surprising that the EU is losing popularity in Europe and there is a growing tren to reducce the EU what is what it used successfully


The EU was started as a econmic policy co-ordinating body to enhance Economic growth in Europe - if it developed into a sovereign enitity it is not surprising hat it tured Europe into an economic wasteland, comapred to what it used tp be in the 1980;s and even up to 2000's Even Germany's GDP has been decreasing for 4 financial years runing. Motor vehicle manufacture manyfacturing was the key to the Europeamn Economic grwoth - ha it not being destroywd through bureaucratic excesses in the EU?


My first visit to Europe was a 6 month long visit to Europe - the people were happy and friendly - the countries and cities clean - in France the key industrial areas were in Normandy and Bavaria. The cities - bar istanbul - were clean and well maintained, Since then I went for at leat 6 other visits - the last in 2007 and the cities were turned into cesspools, In 1973 I stayed in the area adjacent to the Gare-de-Nord in Paris - it wa part of the city that was clean and beutiful tos ay in. I stayed there again in 2007 - and a French friend of mine said - you must be ignorant - the area is a gan gland where gangs and police frenquently clashed, There were ehavily armed guards at the station trying to prtect people travelling to the Stade -de-France and to London by train.


In the cities in Europe in 2007 like even Vienna there were deterioration. noticeable - really disappointing.


Where in the 1970's people were still proud of their countries and culture - since then it has been destroyed by the Woke Culture,


,



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Dec 2025, 11:53
#23
10 Dec 2025, 11:53#23

This is a text booked example of right wing misinformation.

Firstly the framing of the arrest, she was in bath and it occurred in front of her children. If the police believe a crime has been committed they go arrest someone, they don't say well geez the person could be in the bath or sitting on the toilet, we better hold off. Also on a slight side note this women supposedly has an only fans account so I doubt she's normally too bothered about people seeing her in a state of undress. As for kids again if an arrest has to be made then it's irrelevant if there is children around.

There you go with your right wing agenda again..... and again

Yes..... they go and arrest someone if they believe a crime has been committed .....

So... 11 police officers are needed to go and arrest a woman for calling someone a "faggot" in a direct and personal and private message that was sent to a friend, and here you are wanting to justify how it was done in front of her 4 children.....

Please man, you would swear that she had killed someone, or she was a terrorist ..... and you reckon this was fully justified.....

What rubbish, it's draconian behaviour at best..... disgraceful at worst.

This woman also sent pictures to the same friend, of her injuries which required her to go to hospital, and yeah, she was ranting and complaining about her assualt by this mutual male friend of theirs......so she was reported to the police for using the word "faggot" and was charged with "malicious communications offenses" ...

What a bloody farce .....and you think all this was justfied behaviour by the police...

11 officers are needed to arrest someone for calling someone else a naughty word ......

LOL, yeah, the crime certainly matched the police response.....

Just imagine the response from the police if she had called him a queer cockgobbler ..... probably 22 police officers

But most of them do fall into that category

And you know this how?

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
10 Dec 2025, 12:16
#24
10 Dec 2025, 12:16#24

These lefties sure do love them some authoritarianism...while they call the opposition authoritarian haha

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
10 Dec 2025, 20:34
#25
10 Dec 2025, 20:34#25

So... 11 police officers are needed to go and arrest a woman for calling someone a "faggot" in a direct and personal and private message that was sent to a friend, and here you are wanting to justify how it was done in front of her 4 children.....


If 11 police officers involved I'll absolutely call that excessive. But here's the thing did anyone be it the professional media or social media confirm 11 police officers where involved in the arrest or have they just taken this women's word at face value? As far as I can see no one has.


So what if it was a personal and private message. If I ring someone or message them on there personal number and threatened and/or abused them that's no different if I made the same comments on social media, it's irrelevant. And again her having children is also irrelevant.


You say I'm justifying what's done in front of her children, when you're the one excusing her homophobic abuse of another person.


This woman also sent pictures to the same friend, of her injuries which required her to go to hospital, and yeah, she was ranting and complaining about her assualt by this mutual male friend of theirs......so she was reported to the police for using the word "faggot" and was charged with "malicious communications offenses" ...


No she sent what was described as a barrage of messages to her ex-friend, you're making the assumption that she was arrested for just one comment.


And you know this how?


Personal experience, from every time I look into these outrage headlines the media posting this content are either deliberating withholding details or framing the articles to mislead the public.


These lefties sure do love them some authoritarianism...while they call the opposition authoritarian haha


LOL meanwhile Trump's America is ignoring court orders to beat the band, carrying out extra-judicial killings at sea and trying to force Ukraine to surrender to a authoritarian regime hellbent on erasing Ukrainian culture from existence, but somehow it's the lefties calling out racism and homophobia who love authoritarianism.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Dec 2025, 22:04
#26
10 Dec 2025, 22:04#26

LOL...spin galore.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
11 Dec 2025, 05:37
#27
11 Dec 2025, 05:37#27

So erm Draad, can't help but notice that your Bumchum Plum has made a runner and left you with the short straw.

Also, I can't help but notice that to date you've made a handful of nothing comments on the subject matter.


Here's another question.......what difference is there between the playbook of the ex President of the Philippines who authorized his police to shoot and kill alleged drug dealers and your hero Donald J Trump?

Let me help you. one is in international waters and the other was on land....spot us another difference.

President Duterte is currently facing charges in the International Court of Justice, why shouldn’t Donald J. Trump face the same?

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
11 Dec 2025, 06:56
#28
11 Dec 2025, 06:56#28

and here Plum FYI so no more lame duck excuses for not knowing about the premeditated murders by Donald J Trump


"The Trump administration is facing increasing scrutiny from lawmakers over the boat strike campaign, which has killed at least 87 people in 22 known strikes since early September, including a follow-up strike that killed two survivors clinging to the wreckage of a boat after the first hit."

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
11 Dec 2025, 07:20
#29
11 Dec 2025, 07:20#29
All of the deadly US strikes on alleged drug boats are murders

Kenneth Roth

6–8 minutes

The largely supine Republicans in Congress had no apparent trouble as Donald Trump and defense secretary Pete Hegseth ordered the killing of suspected drug runners off the coasts of Venezuela and Colombia. But suddenly they are up in arms because the Washington Post reported on 28 November about one incident, a double-tap strike, in which the US military finished off two survivors of an attack.

Tempted as I am to accept whatever it takes to spark some minimal scrutiny of these summary executions, I hope this unexpected opening prompts broader investigation of this entire series of murders, which have now claimed 87 victims in 22 attacks. As Democrats join in, there are some indications that this expanded scrutiny may be finally beginning.

The reason for the congressional awakening is the revelation that during the first strike on 2 September, the US military initially killed nine occupants of a boat but then returned to kill two men clinging to the remains of the destroyed boat. These two clearly posed no threat to anyone. The Pentagon has advanced no evidence to support its claim that they might have been trying to radio their compatriots. Admiral Frank “Mitch” Bradley, who was overseeing the operation, acknowledged that the two men were in no position to make a distress call.

Representative Adam Smith, the top Democrat on the House armed services committee, who has seen the still-withheld full video of the attack, said there was no evidence to support the claim that the survivors were trying to contact their collaborators. Representative Jim Himes, the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee, said the two survivors “were barely alive, much less engaging in hostilities”, when the follow-up strike took place.

The Pentagon has also fallen back on the claim that the two were trying to right the remains of the boat that might have still contained cocaine. But the stricken boat was clearly going nowhere and could easily have been intercepted. There was no need to kill the two men clinging to its wreckage.

In an armed conflict, it is a war crime to attack people who have been shipwrecked at sea, as some in Congress have alleged happened. They are considered hors de combat – outside the fight – and hence no longer combatants who can be shot on sight. They are akin to wounded or surrendering combatants. Opposing forces have a duty to receive and care for them, not kill them.

But the United States is not in an armed conflict with the alleged drug cartels that Trump is targeting. Despite the rhetoric being bandied about, there can be no war crime if there is no war. But there can still be murder, which these attacks were. So were every one of the other killings at sea that Trump and Hegseth have ordered.

Drug cartels are criminal networks. The US Coast Guard has a long history of interdicting such boats and arresting participants for prosecution. That is a law-enforcement operation. International human rights law strictly limits when such an operation can use lethal force – only as a last resort to avoid an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. Except in the most dire circumstances, we want police presenting people for trial, where they can contest the evidence against them before an independent judge and jury. We do not want a police officer on the beat to serve as the judge, jury and executioner.

Trump sought to evade that requirement by declaring an “armed conflict”. Under international humanitarian law governing armed conflicts, enemy combatants who are not trying to surrender or are otherwise hors de combat can be summarily shot. There is no duty to try to detain them.

But the existence of an armed conflict is not a subjective phenomenon dependent on the whims of a national leader, let alone one so prone to flights of fantasy as Trump. It is an objective inquiry, requiring sustained hostilities between two organized armed forces.

The drug cartels being attacked by Trump are not at war with the United States. They are not shooting at the boats and drones hunting them down. To be sure, they are often trying to move cocaine and other drugs to the United States, which brings its own dangers, but that is not an armed conflict. Indeed, US law does not even impose the death penalty for drug trafficking, yet Trump is summarily executing these suspects without bothering to present evidence against them and allowing them to defend themselves in court.

For Trump to be able to concoct an armed conflict out of thin air is extraordinarily dangerous. If these suspected drug runners can be summarily executed upon Trump’s mere assertion of a war against them, he could do the same to kill off anyone – shoplifters, jaywalkers, or even anti-Trump protesters. The national guard whom Trump is deploying to Democratic-run cities could be the agents.

The precedent set would compound the dangers. Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping could declare a fake “war” to assassinate their own dissidents, whether at home or in exile. The most fundamental human right – the right to life – would be rendered meaningless.

By all means, Congress should challenge Trump about the blatant illegality of the 2 September double-tap strike. That was murder, plain and simple. But the other 85 people who have been killed during the attacks on suspected drug boats since early September were also murdered. The secret Department of Justice memo approving these attacks reportedly relies on little more than Trump’s assertions, which may explain why the administration has refused to release it.

It is understandably difficult to defend drug suspects. They are not the most sympathetic of victims, even if the men taking these dangerous boat rides are far from the kingpins running the cartels. But the stakes are more profound. There is no rule of law if the president can deem anyone an enemy combatant and order them summarily shot. Political leaders should stand for more than merely continuing in office whatever the price. If there is ever a time for Republicans in Congress to risk a Trump-inspired primary challenge, this is it.

  1. Kenneth Roth, former executive director of Human Rights Watch (1993-2022), is a visiting professor at Princeton’s School of Public and International Affairs. His book, Righting Wrongs: Three Decades on the Front Lines Battling Abusive Governments, is published by Knopf and Al


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
11 Dec 2025, 09:02
#30
11 Dec 2025, 09:02#30

If 11 police officers involved I'll absolutely call that excessive. But here's the thing did anyone be it the professional media or social media confirm 11 police officers where involved in the arrest or have they just taken this women's word at face value? As far as I can see no one has.

Yes.... 11 officers burst into her house, and I seriously doubt that she is going to go on a show like "Piers Morgan Uncensored" and lie about about many police officers came to her home, because she could so very easily be discredited by those same police officers.

Those 11 police officers actually forced entry into her home.....and only one police officer was female, and all 11 police officers watched her get out of the bath naked, and then arrested her.

The sole female officer then explained that they were there for "malicious communications and hate crime"

With over 12 000 arrests anually for "Malicious Communications" the UK law is draconian at best.

Yes, some of these are valid arrests and are fully justified, but I can see a lot of them being absolutely ridiculous, just like this one.

You say I'm justifying what's done in front of her children, when you're the one excusing her homophobic abuse of another person

Yes, if you honestly think that 10 male officers and 1 female officer need to burst into a home, without a warrant, because they deemed this an "Indictable offense" and then all 11 watch her get naked out of the bath and then arrest her in front of her 4 children for calling someone a "faggot" then you are as bad as them.

I know she sent other messages, but the prosecutor himself said that the sentence itself was uplifted specifically because she used the word "faggot" which they designate as a hate crime......which is utterly pathetic.

What next .... husband's and wives and boyfriends and girlfriends reporting each other to the police after having a big argument... for sending naughty words privately to each other....and then having 10 or more officers literally bursting through the front door of your home to arrest you.....

The same issue that recently happened with Graham Linehan, which was an international embarrassment for the UK, where Linehan was arrested by 5 police officers as he landed back in the UK, and then had all of his luggage searched, and was then arrested and questioned for hours and then released on bail.....all this because he made some satrical comments online about transgender people ....it's piss poor.

Even the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Mark Rowley has requested that the law be amended to prevent incidents like this one with Linehan from ever happening again in the future.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
11 Dec 2025, 20:53
#31
11 Dec 2025, 20:53#31

v

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Dec 2025, 08:09
#32
12 Dec 2025, 08:09#32

It's no surprise at all that the UK has received so much negative press both locally and internationally regarding this clampdown on freedom of speech....

It's like living in Russia

— END OF THREAD —

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