Soldier losses in World War II

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However, of the 41.7 million people living in Ukrainian Soviet Republicbefore the war, only 27.4 million were alive in Ukraine in 1945. Official data says that at least 8 million Ukrainians lost their lives: 5.5 - 6 million civilians, and more than 2.5 million natives of Ukraine were killed at the front.

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And now they are being killed again, based on the excuse that they are Nazi sympathizers.

Hp

Horrible figures all round  but it does not include civill;ian deaths.         

Yet the Soviet Union was invaded and 20 million people died as a result of the invasion wa the deahs of 20 million people.    There were in teh case of Japan the atomic bombs used in Hroshima and Nagasaki that killed 200 000 people and effected manym more with  the result that there are millions more killed,    

There are some figures no relating  to WW2 - namely  Spain and Brazilia for isntance.    Spain did not fight in WW2 and the deahs mentioned relates to the s panish covol war ending in 1937 and  the figures for Brazil must also be iro another war.     

In th case of G rmany there were also about 250 000 German soldiers twjo surrendered taken to Rusisan slave labour camps where they were  held until 1955 and of which thre were also 150 000 deaths,   Wer those included as well.   

D o ymou undestand 2 thing s.   WW2 was wn by Russia who fought harder than any other nation in the war and suffer more as a result of the war than any other country.    That is one reason why Russians hate wars.    They always throughout history lost more people in daths than any ther country.     Wh en Napoleon attacked Russia with 600 000 soldiers he lost 550 000 soldies killed - but Russia lost close to a million people killed,     In th battle of Borodino in 1812 the  Russian army of 100 000 soldiers lost 50 000 soldiers and  in thed the F rench lost 25 000 soldies - but was inable to capture any Russian lines and at the end of the day the Russians retreated because they lost half of their offices as well.   

In Russia the war is normally won not by soldies - but by the weather as a result of which people starve and died if not in proper h omes owth proepr heating.    Napleon when elaving Moscow h ad 500 000 soldies left whe they eached the Russian border of the 500 000 only 38 999  of the original 600 000 survived. 

Moden weaponry is much more dangerous than it used to be - but so is the deaths of civilians.

I any event that si why the Russians always tried to maintain peace .through negotiations.   The same cannot be said  of the USA and UK.  They ahv been in the forefront of wars since WW2 and h numbe fo wars they were invovled in got longer and longer and the most people killed were normally civillians.    The war in Vitnam caused 58 000 US soldier deaths but milions of vietnamese mainly civillians died from for instance Operation Orange which causedd more than a million deaths.    

In the end the results of he War was disastrous for the USA.  They fled from Vietam and the abonding of S aigon wa as big a disaster as was the fleeing in disgarce f A fghanistan where the losses of people lilled in 20 years was huge.    In th case of AIraq the war is ongoing.  More th an 1 million childen died from diseases caused by depleted uranium bombs used by the USA  in that war ad that included medical conditions stemming from that war. and it is ongoing with no reult in view and I want you to refer to what is going on really in ukraine.    More than 10 million people fled from Ukraine and are now refui gees in the EU cutries.    There are also more than 4 million woen and children evacuated by the Rusians to safer places iin Russia.   So the Ukraine poluation ws mote tna haved by now and the carnage is going on.    

That s why I for instance think that wars should never be regarded as essential and there were opportunities by Governments to avoid war.    in teh Ukraine case the USA made sure that all eforts at finding a peaceful solution is sabotaged.    The USA instigate the war and they would welcome it if it lasts 29 years. like the  Afghanistan and Iraq wars did.    The people beenfitting financially from wars ae he Armament Idustry - nobody elseand to support wars on that basis is horrible.    

From the start fo the Ukraine War the aqim fo the USA was clear - they beleived that the Russians will lose the war and theycan conquer Russia throuh Rgime change.    The russian nuclear bombs would then go over to USA control and they ca threaten CVhina that way.    It is not working out and the Ukraine army is not winning the war and in fact lost a whole generation of Ukrainian men lost their livcs in the process.   Wherever te Russians no decide to attack th ukrainians are losing both soldiers and territory.     the Russiand will occuy the Russian part of Ukraine that became partof ukraine in 1053 and that include Odessa and Kharkov.    Oce they hav conquered they would dig in and the only waay the rUkainians would possibly retajke the area occupied by the Russian armym would be if the UJSA and NATO countries became invovled and nobody wants that to happen - eseciaqlly not the EU countries.   

In h e end I ahv from the word go criticized the Rusians because f their invasion - but more critical of the uSA for isntigating he war and sabotaging negotiations to find peaceful soltions iro of he Ukraine War.    A s far as I am concerned the war in the end will  end through negotiations - but that would also mean that Ukrain willl  lose at last 25% of their terriotry - which would have  not ha[ppened if the 2015 Minsk agrement was adhered to by the USA>     .                      .             .      

Dear Editor, can we please have a 'don't likes' knoppie , thank-you.

The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany signed a non-aggression pact on Aug. 23, 1939, a week before Germany unleashed blitzkrieg on Poland and the start of World War II in Europe. The pact contained a secret provision for spheres of influence in Eastern Europe that both sides would accept after Germany conquered Poland.

The Soviet Union would acquire the eastern half of Poland, along with Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. Just over two weeks after Germany invaded Poland, the Soviet Union attacked Poland from the east on Sept. 17. Worn down after fighting with the Germans, the Poles offered little resistance to Soviet incursion. German and Soviet soldiers met in the middle of Poland, and the Soviet Union took control over most of the country.

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Unlike Britain that fought because Poland was invaded, the Russians only fought when their ally turned on them. They were enthusiastic about splitting up Poland.

Clever’s history lessons leave gaping holes. Imagine also attacking a country that was the subject of an unprovoked attack

Hoekom blaf die honde by die hekke van paradice ?

Mozart in one way the story you came ,up wth is true, but  the conclusions are BS.   .

You are talking  BS.  After the Germans invaded Russia  the  initial deaths of the Ukrainians were estimated at 1,7 million kids mostly aged between 17 and 20 years old  was not peprly trained as soldiers was aremed by the Russians and send in to the front to defend the country against the Nazi invasion.    Virtually none of those was alive after four mptnths  The Ukrainians then turned sides and under Bandera became German allies.   After that  front became the area of Ukraine attacked by the Russians and  a largve ercentage of the Ukrainian soldiers fighting the Russians died then.   There were at least 300 000 Ukainians that fought on the side of Germany in the war. and msot of them etreaed with he German army and become war refugees wh moved all over he world.        Sure there were huge casualties - but that was not due to the German army - it was more due to the Ukrainias siding with the Germanss than the other way around.  

In the camp in present day Poland where Bandera resided there were moe than 800 000 killed by the Germans with the aid of he Ukrainian leadership and Ukrainians stationed there .    They identified the people to be murdered and that included Ukrainians, Jews and Poles.   A Polish woman whos parents were both killed in that camp ended up in escaping to the USA.   She ended up living in he USA and stated her Parents and the rest of her family were Poles killed in that camp and she wrote that she saw how the Germans killed the people by shooting them - the Ukrainians killed hem by tortuing them.   A recent example was when  the Canadian Speka of Parliament had to resign because he invited an Ukraine  ex-soldie who faught against he Russia as a guest of honor and it tuned out that the person was in fact  fighting against Russia in that war.  Many of the Ukraine soldies fighting against  Russia ended up as refugees in western countries.    

Your population figures are indeed dubious.  There never was a sensus held in Ukraine before 2001 and the Ukraine Soviet Rpublic did not include the area now regarded as Eastern Ukraine.  That only happened in 1953 and was aimed as a move to increase the Russian component of the population in Ukraine and to neuitalize the impact of the Ukrainians in the evnt of future attacks against the USSR.    So where did you get that population figurews from,.   Eastern Ukraine only became part of the Ukraine Soviet Republic in 1953 as a move to reduce the impact of the Ukrainians in future/     

You apantly missed out on the Bandera issue when writing the above.   So once again whre did you get those figures from and on which side did most people died.   Was it defending Ukraine fighting the Germans or was it protecting Ukraine from being attacked by Russians?

You would find the fact interesting that the the borders of Ukraine was changed drastically in 1953 and why that happened.       

You are talking  BS.  After the Germans invaded Russia  the  initial deaths of the Ukrainians were estimated at 1,7 million kids mostly aged between 17 and 20 years old  was not peprly trained as soldiers was aremed by the Russians and send in to the front to defend the country against the Nazi invasion.    Virtually none of those was alive after four months  The Ukrainians then turned sides and under Bandera became German allies.   After that  front became the area of Ukraine attacked by the Russians and  a largve ercentage of the Ukrainian soldiers fighting the Russians died then.   There were at least 300 000 Ukainians that fought on the side of Germany in the war. and mst of them retreated with he German army and become war refugees which moved all over he world.        Sure there were huge casualties - but that was not due to the German army - it was more due to the Ukrainias siding with the Germans than the other way around.  

There is one exampl I found interesting - there is a Ukraine mueum - the only one in SA - in Riversdal of all places/   

In the camp in present day Poland where Bandera resided  there were moe than 800 000 killed by the Germans with the aid of he Ukrainian leadership and Ukrainians stationed there .    They identified the people to be murdered and that included Ukrainians, Jwes and Poles.    She ended up living in he USA an stated her moher and the ret of her family were poles killed in that camp and she wrote that she saw how the Germans killed the people by shooting them - the Ukrainians killed hem by toruting them.   A recent example was when  the Canadian Speka of Parliament had to resign because he invited an Ukraine  ex-soldie who faught against he Russia as a guest of honor when Zelenskyy turned up in the Canadian Parliament  and it turned out that the prsoner  was in fact  fighting against Russia in that war.  Many of the Ukraine soldies fighting against  Russia ended up as refugees in western countries.    

Your population figures are indeed dubious.  There never was a sensus held in Ukraine before 2001 and the Ukraine Soviet Rpublic did not include the area now regarded as Eastern Ukraine.  That only happened in 1953 and was aimed as a move to increase he Russian component of the population in Ukraine and to neuitalize the impact of the Ukrainians in the evnt of future attacks against the USSR.    So where did you get that population figurews from,.   East Ukraine only became part of the Ukraine Soviet republic in 1953 as a move to reduce th e impact of the Ukrainians in future/     

You appantly missed out on th e Bandera issue when writing the above.   So o nce ag ain whre did you get those figures from and on wh ich side did mots people died.   Was it dfending Ukraine fighting the Germans or was it protecting Ukraine from being attacked by Russians?

You would find the fact interesting that the the borders of Ukraine was changed drastically in 1953 and why that happened.       

Read up on what happened in 1953 and after WW2 as to the borders of Ukraine changes and especially the reasons for the change.  The borders were changed and the mention made ws addition of Crimea to Ukraine - but the Donbas area and Odessa also was included into Ukraine.  The Russians did not want to have a repeat of the Ukrainians acting in favor of attackes like Germany in WW2.

When Stalin died in 1953 th idea was two-fold and that was to replace he cruel Stalin dictatorship by a more lenent approach.   The Russians then decided to neuitralize to an extent the adding of Russian-speaking areas to Ukraine. so as  to reduce the impact of the Ukrainians in Ukraine itself by adding Russian speaking areas to it.  

Where did you get those population figures from?     The Soviet Republic of Ukraine did not include the Odessa area and the Donbas region inclusive of the Crimea during  WW2 ad to claim that there were 41 milion people in he Ukraine area during WW2 is BS.   The area  is BS spreadig since at least 25% of the area of he preset day Ukraine was NOT part of the Ukraine Soviet Republic and the said area - as well as part of the Russian area adjoining Ukraine was  in h Homodor starvation project of Stalin 8 million people died. 

The first official population sensus of Ukraine was only undertaken in Ukraine in 2001 and what you write about it is substandxard  guestiomates.   

Your comment is ridiculous about the issues mentioned about the Russian Nazi claims. is BS as well.     Bandera was the leader of the Ukrainians fighting the Russians in WW2.    In the end the  Ukraine allies of Germany fighting against the Russians ended up in Russian slave camps in Siberia  sent there by Stalin and virtuially none of them retured to Ukraine after the death of  Stalin.     The guerilla war against Rusisa cointinued until 1955 and ended partly due to the adding of terrirotry to Ukraine in 1953 and partly because he Soviet Government after the death fo Stalin was less cruel. 

So why is he Russians claiming that there are Nazi's in the present Ukraine regime.   Simple if you read up what ahppened in 2014 when he coup took place in Kiev.   In 1992 there was a movement formed in Ukraine honoring the Nazi collaborater Bandera as a Naional hero of Ukraine and in the same year a private army called the Asov battalion was formed in Ukraine. based on nazi ideo logue and using Nazi-German symbols and insignia.   Those isntiitutions gathered extermist support and the Asov battalion  gained exremist mercenaies from all over the world.   The USA determined who should take over power in 2014 and a number of fucntionaries from the Bandera movement were included by the USA in the interim Government in Ukraine.   Many of those people still hold critical positions iin the Ukraine government. at present.    In view of he Association of the leaders of the Bandera  movement those people becoming part of the Govenment of Ukraine by th grace of he USA are  regarded as pro-Nazi's by the Russians.

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Poor mozzzie trying to debate Mike on history is the equivalent of halfwit blobbrain trying to debate mozzz on stats. 

Both these nutjobs are so self unaware they don't know their severe limitations. 

Mozart

Th fact is that part of Poland at the start of the war fell undxe Rusia and th e Russians had no idea about dividing  Polan or anything  else.    Facdsim and Communism had the same social;ist beliefs and they felt at the time that an alliance of socilist partnership to Rule the world.   

What the Russians did was to murder of 22 000 polish  soldiers in the Katyn Forest which was then part of an area where Polish speaking  pedominated.    In thi nomal madness Roosevelt and Churchill hushed up the massacre to placate Stalin safely on their side.    Theya lso lied that it was th e Germans who killed the Polish troops.    The real mess was cleared up the mess in 2010  when utin indicatyed that it was the Stalin Regme killed the Polish troops and aplogzed what happened to the Polish soldioers killing s by the Stalin RBgime.

Rtaher th an concentrate  Ribbentrop - Molotov agreement - which was between socialist dictators and that had a cvey short life effect.     It ended  when against the advice of his amy commandes decidd to invade Russia.    That invasion causd the loss of WW2 by the Germans and as a result of that attack Roosevelt and Churchill went to Yalt a for a meeting with Stalin.   Stalin played ping pong  with the two of them and they handned  Central Euuope him on a  platter to Russia and  millions of people klandced in t he sl     

However, that pact had no real impact in the longer run the disaster for the west was the Yalta agrement that ahnded Central Europe to  Stalin on a  platter - whatever Stalin asked for they gveit to h im.   The reult was installation of communism regimes in Central Europe.   Millions of people ended up in slave camps of the USSR and in the one poject - the White Sea canal project alone more than a million  slaves died.   They were only released after the  death of Stalin ad only about 20% of the slaves returened to central European countries.   

The human toll was not the only th ing  _ the Warzaw Pact was si gned and the C old WCar starbted that lasted until 1991.   TNhat really ws a disaster and showed that RBoosevelt was a diud P?esident and Churchill not th e hero the e3ng lish made him out to be.   

The USA played a major role in  1945 fucking up Europe - they are back at it again in Ukraine.in 2022.

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Off the point pablum. The Russians were allies of the Nazis until the Nazis decided to invade Russia. All the Nazis invading Poland did for Russia was to  enable their own cowardly invasion of Poland. So much for:

‘ I any event that si why the Russians always tried to maintain peace .through negotiations.’

Tell that to the Poles, tell that to the Hungarians, the Finns, the Czechs ….tell that to the Ukraine. All unprovoked attacks on smaller neighbors.

A g re with  you there/   When Mussolini became Prime Minister of Italy the first telegram he received was from Lenin.   Both Facsist and Maerxist relates to  Socialist ideology so that was the natural thing to do.   Both Stalin and Hitler strived to be dictatros and both intends to conquer the world. 

Th problem was that  the Ukraians sided woth Germany and the main battles ifought inside Ukraine wa betwen nvolved specifically in Ukraqine was between Ukarain and Russia.Many of the Ukrain troops retreated to West Germanmy and from their migrated and settled in many countries.   Bandera lived in Muchen and the guerilla warfaqe continued until 1955.    It came to a stop because-

*     Stalin died in 1953;

*     The changes made after 1953 satisfied man y pele hopig fo a better future; and

*     Bandera was assassinated in 1956..

D o ymou reaally believce th e communist dictatorship is still in charbge in Russia?   If you think that you have lost he whole pe[ective in the world.     In any even the Russians signed two ag reements to settle t he Ukraine issues - the US A sabotaged both.   

I see very little difference between Stalin and Putin….just degree. And ChatGTP scanned all the available information and concluded there was never a deal about Ukraine that was sabotaged. Case closed.

Mozart

On what did you base that BS story.     The fact is that there is no similarities between those two.   But then  Stalin was an ally of the USA and UK  and theya llowed him to turn Central Europe into dictaorships   

Putin never had any ambitions of any nature to expand Russian territory and has nevr tried to cause regime change in coutries - the USA made regime change in Ukraine a reality and effectively turned the counry into a subordinate of the USA Govrment.    Thety fund th e full budget of their proxy state in Ukraine and has final say on anything involving Ukraine.   That was proven many times.    

Now back to Putin the new Rusian dicator.    Was their any proof that Pyutin abuses human rights?   The Russian consttution limits his powers and  elections are held egularly in which a tiotal of 11 oppoition partis participated.    In the last parliamentary election Putins Party got only 48,5% of the votes counted nationally.   Some of the Parties ae reginonally based and the official main opposition Party is the Communist Party.   The latter is interesting.   Shortly after the fall of the Communist Regime the functioning of the Rusian Communist Party wa banned and the Russian Supreme Court declared the ban unconstitutional and the Party is operating freely in Russia.   Be it as it may the  situation as to distribution is causing the Doema favour tho majority party and that alone cause a majority for Putin's Party.   There are federal Regios governedd by Regional Parties.    Also the fact is that Putin in the case of  the  election got 60% of he votes in the presidential election and in the last one 70% of the votes.   

The Russian Constitution limits the numbe of cosecutive terms any President can run for election.   and that limitation is still in place.   The Russian Paliament (the Doema) decided to give Putin a third term based on the extraordinary situation in paticularly Ukraine  and  evident proof of USA involvmeent in the situation.   Under the corcumsytnces the Russian Supreme Court ruled that it can happen  in this lecion only and not after that again.

There were ampl indications that the usa effectiuvely gioverned Ukraine.    Matter of fact I blame Truimp for one cas only - he did not enforce the implementation of he Minsk agreement  after its  belated submission to Congrress and acceptance. did not nure that the buruaecracy implmt that agreement.   Trump should then ahve instructed to ensure that the agrement be implemented - but they did the exact opposite.   The Great example is th case of the Ukraine Prosecutor investigating Burisma.   Any fullinvestigation would have exposed the corrupt relationship between Burisma and the Bidens.   Biden even bragged by how he told the Ukraine Presidency that if the Prosecutor is not fired within 6 hours or a $1 billion dollar aid package will be cancelled.   the man was fired,   The problem was any invstigation of corruption in Ukraine  would expose Clinton, Pelosi and Schiff in coruption and thy emgineered the famous fake impeachment charges against Trump.   .   

Youir assumption is total BS based on propaganda a nd obvious;ly of no legal consequence.   lf. the denial of the Minsk agreement and the subsequent one in 2022 ws not real accoring to Chat GTP - are you reallyserious about that.   That is unbelievable  BS garbage speading..    You need urgent investigation by a shink - he may delay and help you in suffering from dementia.   

 Just as an aside one could call the issue being sabotaging, undermining or prevemnting it from being implemented.   It all means the same - the USA wanted a war in Ukraine and got it.    They obviously want to ecxpand the war and that is clear as daylight.asx well.      The question is how are they going to do it, since qapproval will not be obtainable from Congress.      Sending in US troops being suject to the NATO command will amke it possible and then claim we are not reponsible te NATO command in doing it and the USA has to comply with the instructions from NATO in that regard.    BS - but that is what to expect from the B iden regime.   .      .