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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  The Obama Disgrace

The Obama Disgrace

Started by clevermike19 REPLIES542 VIEWS· 30 May 2020, 11:27
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2020, 11:27
#1
30 May 2020, 11:27#1

Every time documents are declassified and released about the Obama Government actions in 2016 and January 2017 it became more and more evident that the Rule of Law went out of the window.  The documents should have been released earlier, but first have to be discovered and evaluated before being declassified,    So what has been discovered so far:-

 

*   The first issue that became public was the handling by the FBI under instruction of Obama of total fabrication and fraudulent submission of FISA applications aimed at spying on US citizens who in this case meant was spying on the Trump election campaign.   The first report of the Inspector General dealt with the Carter Page case.   In this case the basic document used was the Steele Dossier and the fact that Carter Page was an agent of the CIA was hidden away from the FISC by fraud,   Page reported what transpired when he had conversations with Russian and other people and in an e-mail the CIA sent the FBI that was confirmed.  The e-mail was fraudulently changed to state that he was not an agent, In the original report there were 17 fraudulent statements made.   That was followed by a Second IG report that there were 29 similar applications made - all of them fraudulent.  This was a disgrace anyway – but subsequent declassifications indicate that Obama was closely involved in the whole process.

 

*     The Steele Dossier was compiled by an English ex-spy on the request of and paid for by the DNC and Clinton.  The whole report was compiled by Steele on the basis of information provided by Russian contacts apparently acting on instructions of the Kremlin.  None of it was true,   For example he was told that the Russian Consular office in Miami was  spying on the DNC – the only problem is there was never such a Consular Office.   The fact is that even Steele confirmed that what he was told was the truth.   When his primary source was questioned he under oath stated that there was no truth in what Steele put in the Dossier.   Yet the Dossier was used to not only serve for FISA applications – but formed  the basis for the appointment of the Mueller investigation.  Mueller was fully aware that it was disinformation that the DNC and Clinton used in their 2016 election campaign, but Mueller tried to cover up the involvement of the DNC and Clinton in the compilation of the Report by stating he did not investigate the background leading to the Dossier.

 

*     The House of Representatives conducted an investigation of the Russian involvement in the 2016 election.   That was done in early 2017 behind closed doors and entailed 57 depositions from officials and others which were classified as secret.  The House at one stage in 2018 approved that the statements be released to the public.  But approval had to be  obtained from the Security Cluster and declassification was delayed for moiré than a year.   It was then de-classified and a report on it was sent back to the new Chairman of the House Security Committee – Rep Schiff – who refused to release it to the House and the Public.  What was so important in those depositions?  Every person under oath was asked the same questions.   Did they have any evidence of collusion   between the Trump Election campaign and the Russians and if so what was the nature of the evidence.   Under oath not a single one of the people from the FBI, the Justice Department  and Security cluster questioned said they had any evidence linking the Russians to the Trump campaign. When Schiff refused to release the sworn statements the Acting Director said he would in terms of the House Resolution released it himself,   What was clear was that either  the people giving evidence under oath lied in their sworn statements or they lied to the public in statements scores of them made in the media about collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians,   Schiff himself made 11 statements on TV that there were  evidence that there was collusion, but he never gave any proof of such collusion and when challenged avoided answering the question.  He definitely was lying about the allegations and so were the others.      

 

*    The main pillar of the Obama Administration actions was an allegation by the DNC that the Russians hacked their computer system to benefit Trump.   The security system on the computer was protected by Crowdstrike,   When Schiff specifically asked the Crowdstrike representative on the issue in the House investigation how and when the Russians hacked the DNC computer system the Crowdstrike representatives told the Committee under oath that there was no evidence that the DNC server was hacked by anybody and there may be a suspicion that some documents may have been hacked , but there actually was no proof of it.  Even though the DNC allegations was extremely serious and was even treasonous, the DNC did not lodge a complaint about this extremely serious allegation with the FBI and neither the CIA nor the FBI was allowed by the DNC to really investigate and confirm that documents were hackled and by whom.  Based on obvious lies Obama then declared 52 Russian Embassy officials as undesirable and forced the Russians to withdraw them from the USA in early January 2014 – fourteen days before he was due to hand over the Presidency to Obama.   This on its own was a scandal with serious negative impact on the relationship with Russia and a score of other countries.

 

*    As to the Flynn issue there were gross falsification of documents and information that is now also finally clear,  There was clear evidence that Flynn tried to calm the Russians down from reprisals against the US embassy staff in Moscow following the scandalous actions of Obama in the last month of his presidency,  It was clear that by early January 2017 a cover-up was necessary and the whole saga of things leading up to the appointment of Mueller in a desperate effort to undermine and destroy the Trump administration was carefully planned by Obama himself.   The immediate need was to deal with Flynn as he would sabotage their whole future plans leading up to the Mueller appointment.  They arranged a discussion with Flynn by two FBI officials and informed him in advance that there was no investigation of him on anything and he needed not have a legal representative present at the discussions held on 5 January 2017.  The one agent was asking questions and the other one was noting the replies.  It is standard operation of the FBI that a so-called 302 report is completed within 5 days after the meeting and that the notes made at the meeting being attached to the report.  So what happened in the Flynn case?   The handwritten notes on the discussions vanished and was apparently destroyed,  The first 302 report on the meeting was changed by Strzok – the one FBI agent at the meeting before he forwarded it to Liza Page – who worked in the Obama Whitehouse,  Page sent an e-mail to Strzok stating that what was in the report was BS and his response was that “you should have seen it before I changed it”.  It was therefore clear that the 302 report was fraudulently changed to indicate that Flynn lied to the FBI about the conversations he had with the Russians.  He did not lie to the FBI – they in co-ordination with the Whitehouse concocted a form that was posted three weeks later than was normal after FBI interviews,   The original notes and 302 report – which Strzok changed - vanished from  sight and was obviously destroyed,  The fraudulent report was used by Mueller to lay charges against Flynn.  The charges were bogus and based entirely on lies and fraud,

 

*    The Mueller investigation was a scam.  Mueller was specifically appointed to find evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians.  In a meeting held in January 2018 between him and the Trump legal team he admitted that he found no links and that he was at that date investigating Trump for obstruction of justice.  An ugly fight between Mueller and the Trump legal team ensued and they challenged Mueller to prove that obstruction in fact took place.   He never could find any proof of that either, but in evidence in the House a lying claim was repeated by Mueller that the Russians conspired to help Trump in the election.

 

Documents are slowly coming out to indicate that the whole Russian Hoax was an Obama plot to undermine the Trump administration.  Why would that be necessary?  One can only assume that the undermining campaign would turn attention away from information Wikileaks obtained from the servers of Clinton and Podesta implicating Obama, Biden, Clinton, Pelosi, Schiff and Podesta in corrupt activities running into hundreds of millions of Dollars.

 

New declassified documents are basically released by the week and every new set of declassified documents leads to further exposure of the criminality of the Obama Administration and Obama himself.   He thoroughly deserve the title of Obamagate for his criminal actions in the relevant regard,                                                                                                        

 

          

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 12:56
#2
30 May 2020, 12:56#2

“ under instruction of Obama of total fabrication and fraudulent submission of FISA applications “

You may try as hard as you want. They will never be able to pin this on Obama, Hillary or Joe Biden. They knew what was going on and they may have encouraged it but the execution of the whole thing? They will never na able to pin it on any of the three of them. They were too shrewd. 

Biden, not really. He was never shrewd, but he has been a bullshitter his entire career and was caught out time after time but Obama made sure that he would not be implicated in any way. Why? Simply because if any fingers could be pointed at Biden, it would surely have implicated the WH as well. 

That the three of them were dirty is indisputable. That they were acting in a criminal way, as far as the whole Russian hoax is concerned, will never be proved. Unethical and underhanded yes, but not criminal. That is why Barr has already made a stand in this regard. 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 13:09
#3
30 May 2020, 13:09#3

“ Yet the Dossier was used to not only serve for FISA applications – but formed  the basis for the appointment of the Mueller investigation.  “

No. By the time the Mueller investigation was started, the Steele Dossier had already been debunked. The Steele Dossier was only used to obtain the FISA warrants to spy on Page to try and get something, anything that they could use. The “actual” predication for Crossfire Hurricane was George Papadopoulos. The “findings” of Crossfire Hurricane, Crossfire Razor, etc was the predication for Mueller.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 13:19
#4
30 May 2020, 13:19#4

“ *     The House of Representatives conducted an investigation of the Russian involvement in the 2016 election.   That was done in early 2017 behind closed doors and entailed 57 depositions from officials and others which were classified as secret.  “

At the time that you are referring to, the House was in the hands of the Republicans. The depositions that you are referring to are post 2018, when Schiff became chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. He was the one who classified and hid the depositions of 50 odd witnesses. He was the one who classified and hid testimonies, even of depositions pre 2018. The testimonies of, for instance George Papadopoulos denying allegations that he told the a Trump administration about Hillary emails, etc. 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 13:29
#5
30 May 2020, 13:29#5

“ *    The Mueller investigation was a scam.  Mueller was specifically appointed to find evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians. “

That is the real travesty. The normal course of action is that a crime is discovered and then an investigation is lodged to find the culprit.

In this case they had a culprit and had to find a crime, any crime to pin on him. That is why both of Rosenstein’s scope, and his subsequent expansion of the original scope, to Mueller was so broad based. 

That is what makes Mueller’s findings so peculiar and ridiculous and that was also what finally nailed him. The fact that he said that he could not exonerate Trump from obstruction. No prosecutor is ever tasked to exonerate, ever. He only had one of two options available. Either prosecute or decline to prosecute and then dismiss. John Radcliffe was the one, IIRC, who delivered that blow during Mueller’s appearance before the House. 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 13:37
#6
30 May 2020, 13:37#6

I“ New declassified documents are basically released by the week and every new set of declassified documents leads to further exposure of the criminality of the Obama Administration and Obama himself.  “

Not a single document, pointing to any criminality on Obama’s part, has been released till now. I have just read the latest batch, reported on by Catherine Herridge. They are all about the anomalies between the real facts around the calls between Flynn and Kislyak, compared to what was reported in the Washington Post. Reports that were used as evidence in the Mueller report. Falls reports that were also illegally and deliberately leaked to the Washington Post. 


The rest can be found on her Twitter feed. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2020, 14:38
#7
30 May 2020, 14:38#7

Your posts on the HOR issue is what I respond to is there are clear signs as to what actually happened,   As far as I can remember the initial investigation of the House started in January 2017 and the statements of the 57 witnesses now released relates o that investigation.  

However, documents like the Statements submitted by the 57 could only be made public after the documents were de-classified by the Security Sector.    Apparently it was left to the House Secretariat to get the clearances required for publication from the Director of Security and in July 2018 the House unanimously resolved that the statements e released and that the necessary clearances must be obtained.

After that resolution the House Secretariat was forced into getting the clearances, but there was a delay in getting the clearances needed    After the  November 2018 election Schiff became Chairman of the House Security Committee.   However the necessary clearances was only provided in May 2019.

After the long delay in getting clearance for the release of the documents, Republican House members wrote to the Director asking him about the clearances and he informed them that it was provided in May 2019 and that Chairman Schiff should have released the documents but he did not do so.

They went back to the Director and told him that Schiff refused to release the statements realizing that Schiff was not complying with the  July 2018 resolution - the Director said that he would release the statements if Schiff did not release them. It was only after that threat that Schiff released the statements. 

I do not think that Obama will be charged on anything - even if  the  defendants in charges claim that they acted  according to instructions from Obama.  What I do expect is that Trump may pardoned him for the sake of peace in the country.   Remember how Ford pardoned Nixon for example.    Irrespective of what happened Obama was committing  crimes and disgraced himself.                 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 14:54
#8
30 May 2020, 14:54#8

Obama can only be pardoned if he has been found guilty of some criminality. There has, till now, not been any criminality that he could be charged for, let alone be found guilty of. The idea of Obama, at this, potentially being pardoned by Trump, is both silly and idiotic. 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
30 May 2020, 15:01
#9
30 May 2020, 15:01#9
Trumpanzee gate continuing....  Most of the civilised world sees Obama as 10 times a human being than the piece of shit Trump.
These fairy tales that Obama is going to be arrested is a joke. Trump has over 100x chances of being arrested after his term is over. 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 15:06
#10
30 May 2020, 15:06#10
Arrested on which charges?
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
30 May 2020, 15:19
#11
30 May 2020, 15:19#11
I am not saying he is going to be arrested, but if by chance he does - there will be many more opportunities to arrest him than Obama.
Blackmail would probably be the most likely. Trump routinely uses this tactic, which he calls negotiation. However, Trump looks like he will do anything to win the next election. Maybe just give him enough rope to hang himself.


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 16:18
#12
30 May 2020, 16:18#12

“ Trump has over 100x chances of being arrested after his term is over.  “

..,....

“ I am not saying he is going to be arrested, but if by chance he does ”

Forget about the cool sheepskins. Check the chrome tail pipes. 

“ Blackmail would probably be the most likely. Trump routinely uses this tactic, which he calls negotiation.  “

Examples of known cases?

“  Trump looks like he will do anything to win the next election.“

None as desperate at the moment than the Dems with their train wreck candidate .


SH
sharkbokCaptain23,209 posts
30 May 2020, 16:41
#13
30 May 2020, 16:41#13
Meandering...The bottom line is the Trumpanzees are irrelevant. The world thinks they are their little conspiracy theories about Obama and whatever else are a joke.
Some of the relics of Apartheid like Comrade Mike and Captain Ceradunce, see Trump  as an extension of their legacy....
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 16:56
#14
30 May 2020, 16:56#14

And there we go again. Acknowledgment that you have lost the argument. 

Listen to two left of left wingers talk about Obama. I bet you wouldn’t have the gal to watch the entire clip. 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2020, 17:41
#15
30 May 2020, 17:41#15

SB

What I wrote about are confirmed by IG of Justice in his report.   Since then there were  a lot of documents released exposing not conspiracy theories like you wrote above, is factual and proven shenanigans and criminality involving the Democratic Party, senior officials and the Whithouse staff - fact is it pointed to serious criminality at least known to Obama,   I know that the officials would not act criminally without instruction and protection - that is clear from documents already released that it was a co-ordinated  plot involving Obana,   There are 50 000 further documents scheduled for release and that will further confirm what was really going on.  

It is also clear that there is a multitude of charges of criminal conduct by senior officials in the FBI, the CIA and the Department of Justice coming up, as well as a review of what Mueller did, which would all be exposed to the public.  

You are in fact yourself busy with conspiracy theories.   "Blackmail would probably be the most likely. Trump routinely uses this tactic, which he calls negotiation".   

Please enlarge that CRIME - what proof have you got.  He forced the EU countries to comply with the NATO conditions as to funding and threatened them that unless they make their legal contribution he would reduce the USS contribution to the level agreed to, which in fact would result in withdrawing of most US troops from Europe.  The NATO members realized the implications and quickly started honoring their legal obligations.  That is NOT blackmail so what crime does that represent?
The other part of your theory may relate to trade agreements entered into with countries by Obama.  Trump tore those up because their were conditions in the agreements that were not in the interest of the USA.  He insisted in re-negotiating of the agreements to benefit not only the other countries - but also the USA,  What crime does that represent?
Please try something else and bring real evidence.  And leave out members of your story - that has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.    Obama is not the hero you make him out to be.- accept it because things coming out are painting a different picture of him being a crook.          

      

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2020, 21:09
#16
30 May 2020, 21:09#16

Hey, used car salesman and your master. Your medicine has arrived, guys. 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 May 2020, 11:48
#17
31 May 2020, 11:48#17

There is one statement made by Ceradyne that I disagree with and that is the issue that pardons are given only when courts find the accused guilty,  Nixon was pardoned without any charges having been finalized yet and General Cartwright was pardoned by Obama before the charges against him went for trial.   The fact is that I believe that if in Court proven allegations against Obama, Biden and Clinton come up - Trump would pardon them before any legal steps are taken against them.

They have thoroughly disgraced themselves already and worse is to come.

I think Trump will act once the legal representatives of the accused insist that the three crooks  be called to give evidence in court in defense of their subordinates,  He is likely to protect the crooks to stop the resultant unrest which may follow should they be implicated in criminal activities,  .            

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
31 May 2020, 15:46
#18
31 May 2020, 15:46#18

Point taken. A person that has been charged can be pardoned. 

This, however, makes no sense at all:

“ The fact is that I believe that if in Court proven allegations against Obama, Biden and Clinton come up - Trump would pardon them before any legal steps are taken against them. “

How can “... in court proven allegations...come up” and then, at the same time Trump pardon them “before any legal steps are taken...”. How can you have in court proven allegations without any legal action being taken?

I cannot, in my wildest dreams, see Trump pardon any of Obama, Biden or Hillary. What I’m saying is that there are, at this stage, no grounds for legal action against Obama. And I say it again, like I keep on saying, at this time. Irregularities and unethical BS, yes, but criminality? Nothing so far. Biden’s quid pro quo? Yeah maybe.


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
01 Jun 2020, 09:30
#19
01 Jun 2020, 09:30#19
.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Jun 2020, 11:37
#20
01 Jun 2020, 11:37#20

After selling out the US Uranium reserve to Russia and refusing to allow arms sales the Ukraine during the war between the Russians and Ukraine - that strong leader Obama sold out the USA lock, stock and barrel first to Russia and next to China.   He was total shit as a President of the USA running it like a Mafia operative.

He fucked up the whole situation in Libya and the middle east totally as well,  

Aside from that his administration was the most corrupt in the history of the USA,     

 

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