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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  The Trump administration sinks to a new low – opening fire on drowning men ..... SIES !

The Trump administration sinks to a new low – opening fire on drowning men ..... SIES !

Started by bobbok...29 REPLIES579 VIEWS· 06 Dec 2025, 00:09
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BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
06 Dec 2025, 00:09
#1
06 Dec 2025, 00:09#1




The Trump administration sinks to a new low – opening fire on drowning men

Jonathan Freedland


These deadly US boat strikes are the latest example of a president corrupting both the law and morality

Fri 5 Dec 2025 18.12 GMT



The Trump administration looks ever more like a criminal enterprise – and now it seems to have added war crimes to its repertoire. Though even that may be too generous a description.

On Thursday, word came that the US military had launched yet another deadly strike on a small boat moving through international waters. This time the attack killed four people, bringing to at least 87 the number of people the US has killed in a series of 22 such strikes on what it says are drug boats – vessels carrying illicit narcotics in the Caribbean or eastern Pacific.

This has been happening for months, but the issue has only just drawn political heat thanks to a Washington Post investigation of the first such attack on 2 September. The paper reported that US forces hit the targeted boat once, then hit it again – the second strike killing two survivors clinging to the wreckage. According to the Post, the defence secretary, Pete Hegseth, had issued a verbal command to “kill them all”.

Now that incident is under congressional scrutiny, with even some Republicans uneasy about what appears to be a clearcut case of a war crime. The defence department’s own Law of War manual forbids precisely this kind of action, spelling it out in black and white on page 448: “Members of the armed forced and other persons … who are wounded, sick or shipwrecked, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.” Not that you should need a manual to tell you that. The law of the sea demands that you rescue those at risk of drowning; basic human decency demands that you don’t fire on them.

Trump loyalists have denied that Hegseth gave an explicit order that everyone on board be killed and have tried to argue that the two men in the water were legitimate targets because they had proved themselves to be still “in the fight”, perhaps by calling in help from fellow “narco terrorists” nearby. Democrats who have seen the same classified footage of the incident say that, on the contrary, the video shows the killing of men in distress, their vessel destroyed and posing no threat.

That would constitute a war crime, but for one thing: there is no war. The Trump administration says that the boats in its sights are ferrying drugs – fentanyl and the like, which kill Americans – from Venezuela to the US and that the traffickers are part of a “designated terrorist organisation”. In effect, it argues that the “war on drugs” is an actual war, in which the US military has the right to act as it would against any other armed enemy.

But the laws of war don’t work like that. As Sarah Yager of Human Rights Watch explained to the Guardian, a US president “can’t just make up a conflict”. Of course, Donald Trump would dismiss the demand that for a war to be legal it has first to be declared by a congressional vote, but harder to brush off is the fact that the supposed enemy in this case poses nothing that could reasonably be described as a military threat. These are small boats that may or not be carrying drugs, with no serious means of defending themselves. The right way to deal with the danger they represent is the way they were dealt with under previous administrations – as a policing operation involving interception and arrest.


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In other words, the problem here is not just the “double tap” incident that killed those two shipwreck survivors. It is the entire, months-long operation which has killed 87. In Yager’s words: “Nobody on those boats can be killed legally by the United States military.” Viewed like this, we are not contemplating a war crime on 2 September so much as a string of crimes: extrajudicial killings that, simply put, look like murder.

There could hardly be a graver charge, yet how has Hegseth himself responded? By posting a mocked-up cover of a children’s book, depicting the much-loved character Franklin the Turtle apparently aiming a rocket launcher at a group of boats, under the imagined title, Franklin Targets Narco Terrorists. As Logan Roy might put it, this is not a serious person.

There is no need to pretend that Hegseth’s actions amount to the sullying of a previously clean reputation; no one is under any illusions as to the long and appalling record of the US in Latin America. Even so, the Trump administration is somehow managing to plumb new depths – and not only in that part of the world.

Europeans have long been alarmed at Trump’s lopsided approach to the Ukraine war, evinced most recently by his unveiling of a supposed peace plan that the White House was compelled to deny had originated in Russia, so closely did it resemble a Kremlin wishlist. The sixth and latest visit to Moscow of Trump’s golfing buddy and personal envoy, Steve Witkoff, this week, and his chumminess with Vladimir Putin, did little to dispel that impression.

For a while, this closeness to Russia intrigued observers. Could the explanation really be that Putin held damaging kompromat on the US president? It seems the answer centres on a lust that is almost as basic: not sex, but money.





What’s driving Team Trump’s push to end the war is not the hope of restoring Ukraine’s sovereignty and independence but rather the desire to cut a deal that would bring US businesses hundreds of billions of dollars. According to a major probe by the Wall Street Journal, what Witkoff and Kirill Dmitriev, Putin’s handpicked envoy, have been negotiating in closed-door meetings in Miami and elsewhere is a grand bargain that would “bring Russia’s $2tn economy in from the cold”, while giving the US a slice of the action, whether access to $300bn or so of Russian central bank assets frozen in Europe or joint US-Russian ventures to exploit the enormous mineral wealth of the Arctic. Russia would end its isolation, Americans would get even richer and – an added bonus for Moscow – those pesky Europeans would be cut out. In the words of the Polish prime minister Donald Tusk: “We know this is not about peace. It’s about business.”

And to be clear, that business motive is not solely about enlarging the coffers of the US Treasury to benefit the hard-pressed US taxpayer. Note how Jared Kushner, who joined Witkoff in Moscow this week, saw his investment fund, Affinity Partners, enjoy billion-dollar cash infusions from the very Gulf monarchies with whom he negotiated as a White House official during his father-in-law’s first term. In Trump world, the boundary between public and private does not exist: what profits the US profits Trump and his circle.

A favourite example, if only for its vivid clarity, was the meeting this summer on board a superyacht moored off the coast of Sardinia. Present was Witkoff and a member of the ruling family of the United Arab Emirates in charge of $1.5tn of the UAE’s sovereign wealth. The two men had much to celebrate. In May, it had been announced that one of the sheikh’s investment firms would deposit $2bn into World Liberty Financial, a cryptocurrency outfit founded by the Witkoff and Trump families. Two weeks later, the White House granted the UAE access to specialist AI computer chips that had previously been off-limits, thanks to national security fears that the chips might find their way to China. What a happy coincidence it was that those two unrelated events followed each other so swiftly, and how convivial that encounter in Sardinia must have been.

The word corruption can be used in two ways. In its legal sense, it can refer to dishonest conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery. But it can also have a deeper meaning, referring to the corrosion of standards, the decline of norms and the removal of moral restraints. If and when Donald Trump and those who serve him, and themselves, are eventually called to account, they will be confronted by that single word, in all its shades – and all its force.

  1. Jonathan Freedland is a Guardian columnist


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2025, 06:44
#2
06 Dec 2025, 06:44#2

So the drowning men are importing drugs into the USA killing over 100 000 people a year in the USA. The fact is the Obama,adminstration advocated the same idea and the Autopen's son was a druggie too who saw nothing wrong with the importing drigs ino the USA and even cocaine was found in the most secire part of the WH in Washington.


Trump closed the Mexican border totally and a dofferent method of getting drug s into the USA was found, S o tha above article is promoting that new system of gettin g dru g s into t he U SA to help in effectin g murder more than 100 000 peoee a ear in the USA,


The rest is Garbage about attacki g people actively TRYING TO STOP Wars in Ukraine and the slur that people are enriching themselves when they promote investment and job cretioin the USA - not the Chinese who bribed the Autopen Administration and promoting the massive corruption in relation to the Ukraine War in both Ukraine and Washington. Take money from the taxpaying people to enrich yourself through bribery and corruption. Fuck me - the BS on this site is amazing.


SIES SIES SIES SIES SIES SIES SIES SIES - A THOUSAND TIMES,


BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
06 Dec 2025, 09:04
#3
06 Dec 2025, 09:04#3
Suspected smuggling boat struck twice by military was reportedly moving drugs to South American country, not US –as it happened


BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
06 Dec 2025, 09:06
#4
06 Dec 2025, 09:06#4

Suspected drug smugglers killed in September attack were moving drugs to Suriname, not US - report

The US admiral who directed an attack on suspected drug smugglers in the Caribbean on 2 September told lawmakers this week that the small boat destroyed by the US military is a series of strikes was moving narcotics to a larger vessel bound for the South American nation of Suriname, not the United States, two sources with direct knowledge of the testimony told CNN.

That information seems to contradict the case made for the attack by Donald Trump when he wrote on social media, hours after the four strikes on the boat, including those that killed two survivors clinging to the wreckage: “The strike occurred while the terrorists were at sea in International waters transporting illegal narcotics, heading to the United States.”

As the former Pentagon lawyer Ryan Goodman points out, the testimony of Adm Frank Bradley, that the drugs were bound for Suriname, makes it unlikely that they were ultimately destined for the US.

“Suriname is a transit country for South American cocaine, the majority of which is likely destined for Europe,” according to the US state department’s 2025 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report.



BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
06 Dec 2025, 09:08
#5
06 Dec 2025, 09:08#5

Now aint that a shame ?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2025, 15:44
#6
06 Dec 2025, 15:44#6

Now taking the side of criminals - you should be ashamed of yourself SIES a thousand times. How do you know that the boats were traking the drugs to Suriname anyway,. But with all your BS you supporrt drug smuggling - whereveer it goes the consequences ends up in death.


In any event if that myth of the boats carrying drugs to a mysterioua ship is true the U SA Government would have bordered the ship and see what cargo the boat is carrying. It is just sucked up BS,


But it is clear the criminals involved are both political criminals like Goodman and people that believe the BS. spread by two anomonous sources. You believe spreading BS onsite by idiots like you is ever credible, That hearing you refer to was secret and none of the info was available to outsiders, You have never realized that th DP is a ciminal-based political party



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
06 Dec 2025, 19:49
#7
06 Dec 2025, 19:49#7

Leinster is still a super team, especially with their top internationals.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
07 Dec 2025, 00:08
#8
07 Dec 2025, 00:08#8

Are you suggesting Leinster are smuggling drugs into America via small boats?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Dec 2025, 02:24
#9
08 Dec 2025, 02:24#9

I wouldn’t put it past them

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
08 Dec 2025, 22:20
#10
08 Dec 2025, 22:20#10

What's happened to 'Innocent until proven guilty'?

Under Trump its become Execution without trial....i.e. premeditated murder.


BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
08 Dec 2025, 23:34
#11
08 Dec 2025, 23:34#11

& the soccer suckups give him a peace prize ...

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Dec 2025, 05:56
#12
09 Dec 2025, 05:56#12

Drugs have killed hundreds of thousands of people in the USA. The Border with Mexoco has ben closed and the Canadian border monitored The only remaining way is smuggling drugs by using sea routes The gamgsters have been declared a teirism an waned their boats will be destroyed The question above is totally irresponsible and misleading. When terrorsts attack - are people not allowed to defend themselves?

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Dec 2025, 06:47
#13
09 Dec 2025, 06:47#13

"Are you suggesting Leinster are smuggling drugs into America via small boats?"


I was lost for words and Leinster just scored a try so that popped into my head...thought it would fit in nicely in this thread, seeing there wasn't a Leinster match thread...

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
11 Dec 2025, 21:52
#14
11 Dec 2025, 21:52#14

g

CR
CrusadersfanPro3,099 posts
12 Dec 2025, 00:19
#15
12 Dec 2025, 00:19#15

So dumbmike it's OK to exterminate drug smugglers on the high sea, so why are there not death squads doing the same on American streets?


And why limit it to drug peddlers, should they also execute all the other criminals without trial?

Who decides what crimes justify the death penalty without trial?


Careful for what you wish for because this is exactly the path Germany went down and would you still support this if one of your family members was executed on the spot?


Got to love our resident Christians they are always the ones baying for blood except the unborn they have to be saved (well until they are born then their life is worth spit like everyone else)


Law and order is the only thing holding the wolfs from your own door, don't always think you couldn't find yourself on the wrong side of the line


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2025, 03:10
#16
12 Dec 2025, 03:10#16

Wolves…not wolfs

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Dec 2025, 06:43
#17
12 Dec 2025, 06:43#17

He was hungry...

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Dec 2025, 10:05
#18
12 Dec 2025, 10:05#18

Dense Denise talks about premeditated murder!!!

What in the World does this clown think importing deadly drugs into the US is???

The US Congress should devise a law whereby drug peddalars coukd face the death penalty.

This whole drug thing is out of control. It can and must be stamped out.


XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
12 Dec 2025, 11:24
#19
12 Dec 2025, 11:24#19

"Today, the Department of State announces the designation of Tren de Aragua (TdA), Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13), Cártel de Sinaloa, Cártel de Jalisco Nueva Generación (CJNG), Cártel del Noreste (CDN), La Nueva Familia Michoacana (LNFM), Cártel de Golfo (CDG), and Cárteles Unidos (CU) as Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) and Specially Designated Global Terrorists (SDGTs)."



Trump got y'all simping for drug cartels and terrorists.

Where was the outrage when Bush and Obama were drone striking weddings and hamlets in Afghanistan and Pakistan.


Those boats have been designated as military targets and as such can be fired upon without warning and repeatedly until gone. Also since the border with Mexico has been strengthened the new route for fentanyl into the US is via Venezuela.


Is this the only reason the Trump administration is pushing for conflict with Maduro... I doubt it. There's oil, natural gas and a shit ton of rare earth minerals to be had in Venezuela all with Xi Jinping's name on em and where there's oil there'll eventually be "freedom".


Faux outrage for drug mules is cringe and gross.


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Dec 2025, 12:24
#20
12 Dec 2025, 12:24#20

Well said Xavi

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Dec 2025, 18:44
#21
12 Dec 2025, 18:44#21

"Faux outrage for drug mules is cringe and gross."


Exactly. MS13 and drug cartels are the new martyrs...WTAF?


Pity we can't have a Saffa leader standing up to the crime syndicates...over here the government is the crime syndicate...

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
12 Dec 2025, 19:19
#22
12 Dec 2025, 19:19#22

The US Congress should devise a law whereby drug peddalars coukd face the death penalty.


Exactly, that would be a good starting point, thanks for arguing my point.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Dec 2025, 19:36
#23
12 Dec 2025, 19:36#23

Your point was moot the moment drug catels were declared as terrorists organizations...and rightly so.

XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
16 Dec 2025, 15:15
#24
16 Dec 2025, 15:15#24

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/12/designating-fentanyl-as-a-weapon-of-mass-destruction/


Fox two gents, fox two.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Dec 2025, 16:37
#25
16 Dec 2025, 16:37#25

This is the most cynical anguish the Woke crowd have produced yet….sympathy for murderous drug peddlers. They have a fool proof way of avoiding any injury, simply stop trying to bring drugs across in boats.


Next the Wokistas will be wringing their hands about the lack of government support for those that are the victims of dangerous drugs.


ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
16 Dec 2025, 17:13
#26
16 Dec 2025, 17:13#26

Trump administration declares drug dealers terrorists. The US starts blowing up small boats off the coast of a Venezuela, in the Caribbean and Pacific that allegedly carrying drugs.


Opponents ask the following questions. How do we know they were carrying drugs, how do we know if those boats or their cargo were heading for the US, should we not have detained them as opposed to killing them outright, you know like you just did with that tanker, what about due process?. If drug dealers can be declared terrorist and killed without due process what other groups could be deemed terrorist by the Trump administration? Is this really about drugs, or about toppling Maduro, is the US going to get involved in a regime change in South America?.


Trump administration declares anyone questioning the blowing up of these boats is simping for drug dealers.


Draad, Xavi, DA and Moz on being given their lead from the Trump administration.



Fuck sake it's so easy for them, they can say anything and you will just regurgitate it.



TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
17 Dec 2025, 07:10
#27
17 Dec 2025, 07:10#27

This is the most cynical anguish the Woke crowd have produced yet….sympathy for murderous drug peddlers. They have a fool proof way of avoiding any injury, simply stop trying to bring drugs across in boats.


Next the Wokistas will be wringing their hands about the lack of government support for those that are the victims of dangerous drugs.



This is another revealing of the liberal mindset as they keep trying to rationalise their failure to abide by their own tenets. Hundreds of years ago, this brutal absence of logics would have elected the person to be considered insane. Liberals are not insane though, they are liberal.


Liberals would like to enforce the absence of an idea that the merits of an institution of justice are gauged by not people who confront the institution of justice but by people who do not confront. Respect the law and the institution of justice will be impeccable. Which is the case of all institutions of justice, including tyrannical institutions. The first and primary benchmark to assess the merits of an institution of justice are people who allegedly behaved in an illegal way.


It does not stop here as liberals also floats the idea that groups organised not to break the law should break the law to mirror the behaviour of people who are not organised to break the law or even more, the behaviour of people who are organised to break the law. It sounds insane but now, they are not insane they are liberal. Liberalism is the issue, not insanity.


Groups like the police or the military are organised so that members of their forces do not break the law. Liberals even go as far as claiming members of these organisations take an oath. Yet the members must mimic the behaviour of people who are organised to break the law. It tells a tale of utter failure. People who are organised not to break the law are dictated their behaviour by people who are organised to break the law.


It is a deep seated failure that gives the magnitude of what freedom is to liberals. The total absence of logics that people must own guns because criminals own guns. Criminals are the ones providing the standards for the rest of society. Outlaws dictate the rule of law.



Last point: a growing and powerful force among liberals is that people who do not respect the law lose any right. It is so serious that liberals have been revealed to have escalated this mindset to the stage of feeling comfortable with people who do not cross streets using pedestrian crossings being run over.


Notice that the same absence of arguments applies: people who are run over by a car while not crossing on pedestrian zone have a means of not being run over: crossing on pedestrian crossings.


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
17 Dec 2025, 20:58
#28
17 Dec 2025, 20:58#28

This is the most cynical anguish the Woke crowd have produced yet….sympathy for murderous drug peddlers. They have a fool proof way of avoiding any injury, simply stop trying to bring drugs across in boats.



It is another funny thing. Woke is dropped as dehumanisation. That is not even sympathy for human beings who may be drug peddlers. Which liberals by their own tenets are forced to be. It is about the acknowledgement of the bizarre situation liberals are willing to force about anyone else.


Not dismissing what woke is supposed to be, and indeed a woke person is implied to have noticed, but a lot of people are able to do the same.


Liberals advocate for a group of people organised to not break the law to behave the same way as groups that are organised to break the law. Liberals have troubles distinguishing themselves from outlaws, which is a major novelty in human history. Liberals promote a vast and deep social malfunction.


This is when dehumanisation is mandatory. Liberalism converge toward totalitarianism. Totalitarian societies have this peculiar they can not bear any semblance of resistance, they must flatten out every sign of resistance. Of course, when people point out the malfunction advocated by liberals, this sign of resistance must be flattened out.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
18 Dec 2025, 02:52
#29
18 Dec 2025, 02:52#29

extract:

First, complying with the laws of war can provide a battlefield advantage. This year I read Antony Beevor’s classic history of the end of Nazi Germany, “The Fall of Berlin 1945.” I was struck by a fascinating reality: Hitler’s troops fought fanatically against the Soviets not simply to preserve Hitler’s rule (most knew the cause was lost) but also to slow the Red Army down, to buy more time for civilians and soldiers to escape to American, British and French lines.

In short, because of our humanity and decency, Germans surrendered when they would have fought. The contrast with the brutality of the Soviets saved American lives.


https://archive.ph/KOcWn




TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
18 Dec 2025, 04:34
#30
18 Dec 2025, 04:34#30

In short, because of our humanity and decency, Germans surrendered when they would have fought. The contrast with the brutality of the Soviets saved American lives.


It is funny how liberals have troubles treating people in a similar way. When looking at liberal Israel, liberals usually give a free pass based on the behaviour of Gazza inhabitants, even though the absence of proportionate force is blatant.


The situation on the eastern front was such that, and that is an event rarely broadcast by liberals than Germany had to try in the middle of the war its own soldiers for crimes of war. Yes, peeps, you read that well: nazi Germany tried its own soldiers for war crimes.


The main reason Germany preferred to surrender is because Germany went all in against the soviet, aiming at eliminating so many of them retaliation could not have been possible. Germany sort of went all in and the fear of the retaliation indeed compelled them to fight to the end. And soldiers did not fight to protect civilians, they fought to avoid accountability. And considering that the US were to treat nazis better than their own soldiers (black soldiers), it is a smart decision to be made.


Even though the soviet army behaviour had nothing to do with the absence of proportion showed by liberal Israel, if the soviet army had only taken that path, the present times would be very different. Germany would be a thing of the past..

— END OF THREAD —

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