‘Time for a GOP revolt’: WSJ urges senators to force Trump’s hand

The conservative Wall Street Journal urged Republican senators Monday to stand up to President Donald Trump and force through action against Russia — even if their leader opposes it.

In a column titled “Time for a GOP Senate Revolt on Sanctions Against Putin,” the editorial board of the Rupert Murdoch-owned newspaper complained that Trump was unlikely to stand up to Putin.

But, the writers added, his party’s senators could do it despite him.

The column was written after Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the worst attacks against Ukraine yet — and Trump seemed surprised.

“I’ve always had a very good relationship with Vladimir Putin of Russia, but something has happened to him. He has gone absolutely CRAZY!” he said over the weekend.

The editorial board wrote, “Mr. Trump may be the only person in the world still surprised by how Mr. Putin is behaving. The Russian is the same man he’s been for two decades, bent on reconstituting as much of the old Soviet empire as he can get away with. Ukraine is his obsession.

“He’s not going to modify his ambitions merely because Mr. Trump alternates between begging for peace and scolding outbursts on social media.”

It went on to call Trump naive about Putin, expecting to talk the Russian leader into peace without taking any real action.

But, it said, there are others in the GOP-controlled Senate who aren’t as naive.

“The good news is that the U.S. Senate still has some genuine realists when it comes to Russia,” the board wrote.

“As GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham writes … , he has 82 co-sponsors on a bill that would hit countries that buy Russian oil and gas with tariff sanctions. Energy sales are Mr. Putin’s financial lifeline. President Biden refused to apply these so-called secondary sanctions, and Mr. Trump can’t make up his mind.

“If Mr. Trump signaled that he supports the Graham-Tom Cotton-Richard Blumenthal sanctions bill, it would sail through the Senate. Combined with the promise of more arms to Ukraine when the current supply runs out, these sanctions might change Mr. Putin’s calculations about the price of war.

“But GOP Senators can act whether or not Mr. Trump approves. They can vote on the sanctions bill, and force the President to face the hard reality of Mr. Putin’s ambitions that Mr. Trump would rather avoid.”

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Rupert Murdoch laying it out, Trump's pussyfooting will end and he'll go down as a toothless tiger.

Disregard Trumps naive outbursts that Putin has changed, I called it months ago that Putin was playing Donnie.

I ask again, who in hell would boast that he gets on well with an evil dictator and murderer. Sucked in he was, all Putin was interested in is whether Donnie was going to support Zelensky.

Donald is a standup comic. Certainly not presidential.

I see, now sanctions are a good thing. And we have to put sanctions on China for using Russian oil. Weren’t you just bemoaning sanctions every day on here?

It’s a very basic proposition, China is propping up Putin’s Ukraine venture. So sanction China. That strengthens the relationship between Russia and China and escalates this conflict. It makes Taiwan more likely not less likely.

Graham should recall his own words….the moment we stop trading with China is the moment they invade Taiwan.

Trump put unnecessary pressure on himself by suggesting this is easy, it’s fraught with dangerous consequences on all sides. The desire to be tough begs the question, where do we draw the line on toughness. Sanctions hardly ever work and these oil sanctions won’t…do we then see NATO fighting on behalf of the Ukraine against a nuclear power?

The WSJ editorial board looks a bit silly on the tariff issue where, contrary to their expectations, good progress is being made. So they have pivoted to the Ukraine war with the’ get tough’ rhetoric. We have heard it before with regard to Iraq, Iran and Russia. When has it changed anything?

This reminds me of the rush into the Iraq war, hopefully we won’t be as stupid again,

As I've repeatedly said, Donnie should cement his frivolous mouth.

1) Did you hear the Hurrays and high fives in the Kremlin when Donnie said that he gets on well with Putin?

2) He should never have berated Zelensky in front of a world wide audience.........even more hurrays and high fives at the Kremlin.

3) He should never have said Putin will only attend if I attend.......that was another awfully clumsy statement.

Your hero Donnie breathed life into Putin....he energized him and gave him confidence., It made him feel good and justified in front of his people.

As for a nuclear war......Putin wouldn't dare take on America.

"He should never have berated Zelensky in front of a world wide audience"

Then Zelensky should have also been more respectful

More respectful se gat ... that was an ambush, you know it.

Zelensky was naive, stupid and disrespectful ....

If you want to go and ask for assistance, with someone like Donald Trump .....and then make this comment below in front of the world's media about the USA..... then good luck to you .... you are dumb.

"You have nice ocean. And don't feel it now. But you will feel it in the future"

If he expected things to go well after saying this to Trump and Vance, then he is far more stupid than I thought

Zelensky needed to act respectfully….if he had the pressure would have been on Putin to respond. His recalcitrance may have changed nothing, but the subsequent press criticism on Trump’s position never helped.

As for the notion that Putin will never take on America in a nuclear sense…war games have shown how easily these things escalate. One mistake and it’s all over.

It’s not worth the risk. The prior generation did a credible job of avoiding brinksmanship. Things are more dangerous now.

Nor will it deter the Xi/Putin axis it will encourage them to get tougher…they are not accountable to voters, if the world goes into recession it furthers their cause. It’s time to be smart….any fool can be tough.

It's pretty clear the Oval Office bust up with a pre-meditated set-up, the goal of which was to make Zelensky look as bad a possible in front of the worlds media. Trump saw and probably still does see Zelensky as an impediment to his peace negotiations as he is never going to agree to Putin's demands to end the war. Putin in turn is not going agree to Zelensky's terms either but from Trump's perspective Zelensky is much easier to get rid of. Hence discredit Zelensky and try to pressure him into calling an election. Hopefully from both Trumps and Putin's perspective, Zelensky gets voted out and someone more amenable to Russia gets elected making Trump/Putin peace deal more likely.

We know that in the period after the bust up, the Trump administration sent out feelers to Ukrainian opposition politicians to see if they would be in favour of having an election, but they all declined to support an election.

However not for the first time and no doubt not for the last Tump's plan backfired. Immediately Zelensky's popularity surged back home, taking him from second place in polls back to first place and European leaders immediately circled the wagons around him offering unwavering support . The reaction among European commentators and media outlets was similar, while some partially criticized Zelensky for not "playing the game" and others said he was right to defend himself as he would have lost more credibility had he not responded, virtually all were absolutely aghast at the behaviour of the American's and in particular JD Vance's role in what had happened. It was widely seen by both the media and public (regardless of political leanings) as a disgraceful and traitorous stab in the back from a supposed ally on a widely respected leader who's done an incredible job guiding his country through a period of immense difficulty, a man who could of cut and run on day one when the world and his dog thought Ukraine was done for. In America the perception of the events largely fell on party political lines but a YouGov poll take in March 2025 had 51% of American's saying the felt Trump was disrespectful to Zelensky while 32% thought Zelensky was disrespectful to Trump.

If he expected things to go well after saying this to Trump and Vance, then he is far more stupid than I thought

The man was a successful comedian, speaks 3 languages, is a qualified lawyer, successful ran for President in Ukraine, has led his country through three years of warfare, while maintaining quite high levels of public support , is versed in the history of many countries that allows him to tailor his speeches to the country he's appealing too and has been successful in obtaining vast quantities of military and economic aid, yet somehow Zelensky is stupid?

As for the notion that Putin will never take on America in a nuclear sense…war games have shown how easily these things escalate. One mistake and it’s all over.

It’s not worth the risk

Better hand over Taiwan to China right now so.

Nor will it deter the Xi/Putin axis it will encourage them to get tougher…they are not accountable to voters, if the world goes into recession it furthers their cause.

So given Russian concession's or giving into some of their demands will deter China how exactly? Also at this rate if there is a global recession it will likely be caused by Trump.

It’s time to be smart….any fool can be tough.

Why have I a feeling if Trump's approach was to be extremely tough on Putin right now, threatening additional sanctions and military aid to Ukraine, you'd be supporting that position and saying its the position Biden should have taken all along.

Zelinksky had received meaningful support financially and in terms of intelligence. His attitude in the meeting was far too arrogant, especially if, like you, one believes this was a set up. He needed to express gratitude not belligerence, if not for himself…..for his people. If Trump is capable of being vindictive, why didn’t the little men in suits prepare him to avoid triggering a response.

Better hand over Taiwan to China right now so

Rather than WW3…you betcha. But that of course is a stupid way of looking at things. Helping Taiwan to build protection and at the same time keeping Xi in the community of nations is the best way to avoid the agonizing decision of helping defend Taiwan.

So given Russian concession's or giving into some of their demands will deter China how exactly? Also at this rate if there is a global recession it will likely be caused by Trump.

Placing sanctions on China for using Russian oil won’t deter China…it’s tantamount to forcing China to follow the West’s foreign policy…Xi will never accept it. So given it won’t have the response we want, what is the point of antagonizing China in the process. It serves no positive purpose. Capiche?

Why have I a feeling if Trump's approach was to be extremely tough on Putin right now, threatening additional sanctions and military aid to Ukraine, you'd be supporting that position and saying its the position Biden should have taken all along.

You have the feeling because that’s how your mind works, you have been programmed to hate Trump so anything he does is automatically bad. I think it’s a mixed bag, and I call it on a case by case basis.

I criticized Biden for not engaging enough before the war started. I still believes that’s legitimate. I never felt a more aggressive US military approach was advisable and I don’t now.

Experienced people try to be just a little more nuanced and see people as shades of grey. They try not to be suckered by tawdry phrases like ‘we have to be tough’ when it will only make matters worse. They think rather than following their emotions.

Try it…..very few situations in life are absolutely black and white,

Zelinksky had received meaningful support financially and in terms of intelligence. His attitude in the meeting was far too arrogant, especially if, like you, one believes this was a set up. He needed to express gratitude not belligerence, if not for himself…..for his people. If Trump is capable of being vindictive, why didn’t the little men in suits prepare him to avoid triggering a response.

Not from Trump, at least not since the full scale invasion of Ukraine happened. It was the Biden administration the provided the aid during which time Trump directed the Republicans to temporarily block aid to Ukraine, a decision that no doubt cost Ukrainian lives.

Zelensky wasn't arrogant, the very first thing he did was to say thanks for American support, something he's done on numerous occasions in public as he's done with all his international partners. Everything was fine in the meeting until JD Vance interjected about American diplomacy, to which Zelensky pointed it, diplomacy had already been tried and Putin had failed to live up to his end of the bargain on more than one occasion. At which point Vance turned hostile and the whole thing kicked off. It was a set up, like why was Vance even in the room, he didn't need to be there. The crap about Zelenksy not wearing a suit, MTG's boyfriend asking about it, the fact that staff from Russia Today was allowed into the oval office for a while, no way any of that happened unless Trumps staff are mind boggling incompetent.. But somehow Zelensky is the one with the attitude problem yet he somehow it was never had an issue with Trump's predecessor or pretty much any other world leader.

As for the little men in suits, you do realise Ukraine isn't part of the EU?

Rather than WW3…you betcha. But that of course is a stupid way of looking at things. Helping Taiwan to build protection and at the same time keeping Xi in the community of nations is the best way to avoid the agonizing decision of helping defend Taiwan.

Trump's current negotiating tract send a clear message to China. America doesn't have the will to stand up to it. China might have to endure a few years of being cast into the economic and political wilderness but eventually the US will cut a deal with them.

Building up Taiwan's defences is a good deterrent but compare the size of China versus Taiwan if China did make a move on Taiwan, the Taiwanese would need continued support from the US to survive, no amount of pre-emptive build would allow for Taiwan to endure indefinitely on its own. The US would then faced with same decision, help Taiwan defend itself or leave it to its faith because the risk of nuclear war is too high. Also didn't the west keep Putin in the community of Nations until he invaded Ukraine in 2014.

Placing sanctions on China for using Russian oil won’t deter China…it’s tantamount to forcing China to follow the West’s foreign policy…Xi will never accept it. So given it won’t have the response we want, what is the point of antagonizing China in the process. It serves no positive purpose. Capiche?

Emm who was talking about sanctioning China?

You have the feeling because that’s how your mind works, you have been programmed to hate Trump so anything he does is automatically bad. I think it’s a mixed bag, and I call it on a case by case basis.

No programming, I can just see through the bullshit better than you. You use to support Trump and I do believe you genuinely soured on him after January 6th, but you still feel compelled to bat for him, maybe more so out of loyalty to your team and ideological reasons or you just can't bare the thought that the other side might be right. If a democratic politician said or down even a fraction of the things Trump has you would quite rightly say that person would be unfit for office.

I criticized Biden for not engaging enough before the war started. I still believes that’s legitimate. I never felt a more aggressive US military approach was advisable and I don’t now.

Well go ahead and criticize him. You just come across as incredible naive if you don't understand at this point the Putin wanted this war and wasn't remotely interested in good faith negotiations.

Experienced people try to be just a little more nuanced and see people as shades of grey. They try not to be suckered by tawdry phrases like ‘we have to be tough’ when it will only make matters worse. They think rather than following their emotions.

You think Trump can do nuance? Tawdry phrases, "like you have no cards"?

The world was soft on Putin in 2008, and then again in 2014. You ever going to learn from history?

But yeah for the man who feels compelled to have the last word in every debate just so he can perceive himself as to have won the debate debate on a random internet forum, please go on tell us about thinking rather than following emotions.

Try it…..very few situations in life are absolutely black and white,

Indeed, that's why complex situations like Ukraine are beyond Trumps ability.

Schooling you is pretty much a full time job….here, read and learn:

The Sanctioning Russia Act of 2025, which Graham introduced earlier in April with Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D., Conn.), would impose primary and secondary sanctions against Russia and countries that back Russia’s aggression in Ukraine if the Russian government refuses to negotiate a peace agreement, violates a peace agreement or invades Ukraine again in the future.

The bill also would impose a 500% tariff on imported goods from any country that purchases Russian oil, gas, uranium and other products.

Graham’s office said the tariff provision likely would have the biggest effects on China, India and Iran.

….

If you want to comment on a topic, it works better if you familiarize yourself with just a few details. But please don’t view this as the last word…that should be ‘thanks’ from you.

LOL Moz a 5 year old trapped inside a seniors body.

Ah so the rules of the game is that you now need to know about about proposed legislation in countries you don't live in.

If you want to comment on a topic, it works better if you familiarize yourself with just a few details. But please don’t view this as the last word…that should be ‘thanks’ from you.

Emm didn't Shark have to explain to you recently that VAT was not a tariff?

Indeed, that's why complex situations like Ukraine are beyond Trumps ability.

Now if you reversed the situation and had Biden in charge then he'd be shrieking from the sidelines it would never have happened if I was POTUS........ and oh that little classic......I'll fix it on D1.

Bwhahahahahahaha

Ermm didn't Shark have to explain to you recently that VAT was not a tariff?

"yet somehow Zelensky is stupid?"

In that specific moment, at that particular time, under said conditions, with those two individuals.... in the middle of a war that those same two individuals are assisting you with ....in front of the world's media .... then yes, he was incredibly dumb, stupid and naive to think that he could make those comments about the USA and not get the response that he got.

At least be sensible here for one moment..... imagine anyone at all saying the exact same thing to Putin or XI under those exact same conditions.... the response would actually probably be a hell of a lot worse.

Since when do your qualifications in life prevent you from doing something stupid.... it's a very weak response.

Stav

You claim you see through the B S - but you have no way you do. You prefer what you believe is not BS according to what the Guardian tells you is the case. The fact is what you want to do is to try and prevent any settlement in Ukraine and blame Trump for not allowing Ukraine to get the Crimea where nobody wants to be part of anymore, That ype of shit clouds your whole thinking process, In that process you do not realize that te whle waar was an exercise in amximum corruption - both in Ukrine and in the USA.

There sis one prolem you have yet to realize. In the Senate tere is a division between Republicans on the sisue of budget cuts - Trump has cut the Bdget to ensure that targets are met he set. The division is that the cuts should be deeper,

The only Department to get an increase is the Defnse Department - after the Biden administrative fucked up royally. The money given to the Department in budgets was wasted and the Defense Force of the USA is at its weakest ever military position since WW1, Armaments is outdated or money fo Defense was used tio appoint DEI clerks in the Defense Department. If you think The Sena te si going to allow for increasing of the Deb ceiling you must live in cloud cuckoo land,

The fact is whatever computerization were introduced in teh 1990 - some agecies do not have any system at all, An example is that 94% of the federal staff did not go to their offices since 2021. Under the Biden dministration the debt ceiling went up from $26,5 trillion to $37 trillion on a deadly rush to economic collapse, At this stage the USA spent more on services the Federal Governent debts than they spent on defense,

If you think that the USA can fund the whole Ukraine Government with money borrowed from China Like happeed when the Biden clique were ruining the counry - think again. The idea of Trump was to promote peace in Ukrane - in broader sense an inconvenient minor war - while you think to provoke WW3 is the way to go,

But somehow Zelensky is the one with the attitude problem yet he somehow it was never had an issue with Trump's predecessor or pretty much any other world leader.

Yes Zelensky does have a attitude problem, and it was on display again, just last year..... in fact it became big news back then because it involved Biden

Biden got upset in a conversation with Zelensky and Biden had to tell Zelensky to show some gratitude towards what the USA had done, when he apparently got disrespectful with Biden over the phone.....by insisting that they do more.

Zelensky has a habit of doing this ... hence why I say, he doesn't always play the cards he is always dealt with, he pushes the boundaries and comes across as arrogant or disrespectful

Same as when Zelensky publicly rejected German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier's planned visit to Kyiv in 2022 because he accused Germany of being too soft on Russia?

That led to German Chancellor Olaf Scholz delaying sending heavy weapons to Ukraine and only did so weeks later when Zelensky walked back his comments

Zelensky also criticised Macron for maintaining dialogue with with Russia, when all he was doing was trying to bring the war to an end.... this also strained their relationship at the time.

Zelensky was also seen as exploiting Israel by pressuring them to supply weapons to Ukraine by comparing the war to the Holocaust ...which upset a lot of people at the time

Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene previously used Zelensky's tone and attitude to try and and argue against supplying him with weapons and aid, such was his perceived arrogance.

Zelensky is desperate to save his country, minimise deaths, and get the war stopped..... I get it.... .we all get it.... but he needs to tone down his attitude towards world leaders and also not try to paint them in a bad light if they don't assist him straight away or provide enough.... or pressure them into doing something they are hesitant or don't want to do ....... because that is when his arrogance and disrespect comes to the fore.

In that specific moment, at that particular time, under said conditions, with those two individuals.... in the middle of a war that those same two individuals are assisting you with ....in front of the world's media .... then yes, he was incredibly dumb, stupid and naive to think that he could make those comments about the USA and not get the response that he got.

Could Zelensky possible have handled it better, possibly, but bear in mind this happened after he travelled on a long flight and the conversation was occurring in his third language. You have to acknowledge that when people are attacked like that the natural inclination is to fight back. Trump doesn't seem to understand his words have consequences. For example his constant insulting of Justin Trudeau and threat against Canada pretty much on their own turned Canada against the US and single handily changed the course of the Canadian election, people and countries do not like to be bullied. It's the same when it comes to his trade/tariff policies.

In the run up to the meeting with Zelensky Trump made misleading or outright false statements about the war in Ukraine and was pushing a narrative that Ukraine needed to take whatever deal he was working out with Putin because Ukraine was in a dire position. With that in mind Zelensky couldn't just go along with everything Trump/Vance was saying in the meeting because if he did it would give credence to Trump's claims and possibly make other countries question whether they should continue to provide aid to Ukraine and also it would have undermined his own position back home.

And as I said a majority of both American's and majority of the population in the western world felt the confrontation reflected far more poorly on Trump/Vance than on Zelensky.

At least be sensible here for one moment..... imagine anyone at all saying the exact same thing to Putin or XI.... the response would actually probably be a hell of a lot worse.

That is not being sensible, that's inserting a nonsensical hypothetical situation. Aside from that saying Trump/Vance handled the situation less severely than authoritarian leaders who have a huge amount of bold on their hands is not exactly high praise. The question is why of all the leaders of Democratic countries that's it only with Trump that such a situation occurred. That blow out would never have occurred with any other US President or any other democratic world leader (maybe Orban the exception).

You know as well as anyone that Ukraine is the victim in this war. Zelensky has so far proven to be great leader. He's not perfect, no man is and yes he can be blind to the political considerations of other countries, but at the same time he's no doubt been extremely frustrated about western countries vacillating making decisions while Ukrainian lives are lost so some times he can come across as bit curt. But neither him nor Ukraine deserved to be attacked like that by another democratic country, especially not from the supposed leader of the free world.

Since when do your qualifications in life prevent you from doing something stupid.... it's a very weak response.

They don't. Might want to tell that to the people who cite Elon Musk's achievements as a reason why he can't be doing or saying stupid things.

"The question is why of all the leaders of Democratic countries that's it only with Trump that such a situation occurred"

I have already clearly explained to you...... it was not just with Trump that this occured

You paint Zelensky as a saint, and he is very far from it.

I know he is fighting for the very survival of his people ... so in many ways I get why he sometimes responds the way he does.... he is frustrated and often times desperate........but that old adage about biting the hand that feeds you always comes to mind with Zelensky.....he is often behaving arrogantly and disrespectfully ... but you don't see it like that, while other world leaders besides Trump...do.

"That blow out would never have occurred with any other US President or any other democratic world leader"

You can surmise as much as you want to, but his actual historical track record would say that the possibilities of it happening with other democratic world leaders are actually quite high under those same conditions

"They don't. Might want to tell that to the people who cite Elon Musk's achievements as a reason why he can't be doing or saying stupid things."

I'm not the one defending that statement saying that you can't call someone stupid because they know 3 languages, were a qualified lawyer and a president ....etc etc ... you are.

Yes Zelensky does have a attitude problem, and it was on display again, just last year..... in fact it became big news back then because it involved Biden

Biden got upset in a conversation with Zelensky and Biden had to tell Zelensky to show some gratitude towards what the USA had done, when he apparently got disrespectful with Biden over the phone.....by insisting that they do more.

It's only an attitude problem to Trump type supporters. Most people know the score.

What happened between Zelensky and Biden is not the same. Firstly it wasn't a public conversation. Secondly put yourself in Zelensky's position. Biden and other world leaders slow walked a lot of decisions, from tanks, to F-16, to HIMAR's to range restrictions. Each time world leaders said no at first and Zelensky and Ukraine would keep having to ask and keep pressuring them usually by simply moralizing the west, that saying no and delaying was quite truthfully resulting in Ukrainian's dying and Ukraine being in a worse position over all. Eventually western leader would change their mind and the Russian threat's of apocalypse would be time after time repeatedly be proven to be hallow. Most people can understand that Zelensky has to thread the line between being grateful to his western supporters, which he's done hundreds of times at this point and trying to pressure them through moralizing that they need to do more. But what else is he supposed to do, when they say no, say well that's grand, we won't ask again, we will accept the decision as final even if it results in many Ukrainian deaths?

Same as when Zelensky publicly rejected German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier's planned visit to Kyiv in 2022 because he accused Germany of being too soft on Russia?

That led to German Chancellor Olaf Scholz delaying sending heavy weapons to Ukraine and only did so weeks later when Zelensky walked back his comments

I can't find any evidence of weapons delay online because of that spat. It did cause tensions between Germany and Ukraine though.

Zelensky also criticised Macron for maintaining dialogue with with Russia, when all he was doing was trying to bring the war to an end.... this alos strained their relationship.

Well he wasn't the only one. Several other countries criticized his comments about not humiliating Russia or providing Putin with an off ramp. Again it might have caused some strained relations at the time, though I don't recall the French directly responding to the Ukrainian comments. Macron later defended his approach but admitted it didn't yield any results.

Zelensky was also seen as exploiting Israel by pressuring them to supply weapons to Ukraine by comparing the war to the Holocaust ...which upset a lot of people at the time

Again Israel has been criticized for not doing anything much to help Ukraine and not just from Ukraine. I remember after a Russian missile strike on Kyiv that damaged a Holocaust memorial, Israel remained largely silent which elected criticism from multiple sources not just from inside Ukraine. Israel has deep ties with Russia so didn't really want to rock the boat. They have condemned Russia's invasion and provided humanitarian aid but provided no military aid to Ukraine and not enacted sanctions against Russia. Relations have deteriorated recently with Russia criticising Israel's actions in Gaza but there is no sign of Israel changing stance. In fairness as much I'm a critic of Israel's action I wouldn't expect to send Patriots missiles now, they need them themselves but Israel's muted response to Russian actions isn't a great look for them and it's got nothing to do with Zelensky's comments.

Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene previously used Zelensky's tone and attitude to try and and argue against supplying him with weapons and aid, such was his perceived arrogance.

MTG sorry how should I put this politely, is one of the most obnoxiously ignorant, stupid and offensive people to have ever existed. A joke of a politician if their ever was one. A moron of the absolute and total highest order and anything she says or done should be dismissed without a moment of consideration. She's so fu****g stupid she makes Sarah Palin sound like Aristotle...hell she even makes Mike sound like Einstein, she's that pants on head retarded.

Zelensky is desperate to save his country, minimise deaths, and get the war stopped..... I get it.... .we all get it.... but he needs to tone down his attitude towards world leaders and also not try to paint them in a bad light if they don't assist him straight away or provide enough.... or pressure them into doing something they are hesitant or don't want to do ....... because that when his arrogance and disrespect comes to the fore.

It's not arrogance to want minimise deaths. He has to walk that fine line of keeping the pressure up and not pushing too hard, but no person on the planet is going get it 100% perfect. I'm sure if Zelensky was asked to weigh the risk of offending people versus saving lives I know which side he come down on as would most people. Tell me this if Zelensky didn't pressure western countries to change their positions on certain matters, like F-16 or HIMAR's or whatever other weapons system, do you think they would all eventually changed their mind when they did. Do you think if Zelensky wasn't constantly asking them for more or for them to change their mind, they might conclude well Ukraine already has enough?

have already clearly explained to you...... it was not just with Trump that this occured

No those spats were no where near the severity of what happened in the Oval office and the one with Biden wasn't done in public.

You paint Zelensky as a saint, and he is very far from it.

No man is, but I don't get why you say he's very far from it. He's done a great job given the circumstances.

I know he is fighting for the very survival of his people ... so in many ways I get why he sometimes responds the way he does.... he is frustrated and often times desperate........but that old adage about biting the hand that feeds you always comes to mind with Zelensky.....he is often behaving arrogantly and disrespectfully ... but you don't see it like that, while other world leaders besides Trump...do.

Its Trump supporters that try to paint this picture or take such issue with it. Everyone else seems to understand Zelensky needs to keep the pressure up and he may ruffle a few feathers along the way but that's virtually unavoidable given we have human beings negotiating in high stakes situations.

You can surmise as much as you want to, but his actual historical track record would say that the possibilities of it happening with other democratic world leaders are actually quite high under those same conditions

Yet it hasn't happened with any other leader. Zelensky has criticized other world leaders and some have offered criticism in return but nothing that reached the level of the oval office. Countries and political leaders have those type of disagreements all the time but there is always behind the scenes work to bring the temperature down and rest relations, Biden and Zelensky repaired their relationship after the phone call in the background. No other world leader would dream of inviting Zelensky or any other world leader to their office only to ambush them. Yet Trump has now done it twice.

I'm not the one defending that statement saying that you can't call someone stupid because they know 3 languages, were a qualified lawyer and a president ....etc etc ... you are.

Well you don't seem to understand human nature. You seem to except Zelensky to be flawless or just for him to remain totally passive while Trump and Vance talked rubbish that was potentially detrimental to Ukraine.

LOL Moz a 5 year old trapped inside a seniors body.

Ah so the rules of the game is that you now need to know about about proposed legislation in countries you don't live in.

If you want to comment on a topic, it works better if you familiarize yourself with just a few details. But please don’t view this as the last word…that should be ‘thanks’ from you.

Emm didn't Shark have to explain to you recently that VAT was not a tariff?

……….

Nice try Anger…..you make a snide remark about who was going to put sanctions on China. I provide the article which was the subject of this string, in whichsanctions against China and others are specifically anticipated.

And your response is not to acknowledge your mistake but whine about the legislation not being in the tax haven? If you want to comment you are expected to inform yourself. We are talking about the article which started the string.

And no Shark did not have to explain to me that VAT is not a tariff. But I did have to explain to you that a large portion of the European deficit in services was Irish payment of royalties as part of the Tax Haven apparatus….after which you took the deep dive.

….

A moralist trapped in a tax dodgers body?

Or hold on….is that a tax dodger trapped in a moralist’s body? You choose.

"Moz a 5 year old trapped inside a seniors body."

Glad I'm not the only one who sees that.

I find it helps to picture Moffie sticking out his tongue, putting his thumbs into his ears and waggling his fingers while saying "nyaaah nyaah nyhaah nyyaaaaaaaahaa".

It reminds me of what I'm dealing with.

LOL Moz is already going for the in case of debating emergency break Irish tax heaven glass.

Rooidoos

This is the most twisted hatemongering and warmongering I have ever seen from the most brainwashed idiots on earth.

It seems to me wjhenever a politician is corrupt - and Zelenskyy pocketted billions allocted by the dumbfuck and brainwrecked idiot ever in teh WH is amazing, Biden was not even President - it seems the job were shared between Jill and Hunter Biden and three senior Democrats, As much as they could possible get in backhanders from Ukraine and China - the more money was available for looting in both Ukraine and in Washington the more was stolen from that lot/

It was not a situation other than mafia rule of the USA by crooks and if you think Trump is going to fall for that shit the more you lot are being mrmbers of Morons of the World Unite, You are to be happy to spread Goebbels style fake media propaganda totally controlled what little is left of your ability to think for yourselves. Before Ukraine get further aid from the USA there will have to be forensic Audits of what happened to teh money already supplied, Wih Zelesnkyy in charge in Kiev - he and his crooked partnes will not allow it be done.

So dream on - the cxorrupt sage of State and taxpayers money will end and Trumps knows what happened in the past will not allowed it to continue,

. .

Ou Maaik, you appear to be saying something about how much you dislike Biden and the wicked Democrats.

We know. I think even posters who don;t speak or understand Shitoric know that you don't like Zelensky and you don't like Biden . . . and you can add Andre Esterhuizen.

We know you don't like them. You've told us before. Many times.

We get it.

No it’s just that prescribing morality to other countries when your own country lives off being a tax haven is highly hypocritical. Apparently it doesn’t worry you.

The debate was easily won when you didn’t realize that sanctioning China was part of the revolt and you produced your Irish ‘emm’.

ROFL!

"Emm didn't Shark have to explain to you recently that VAT was not a tariff?"

In this context, it's the same fcn thing...

Arguing with Anger is like swimming in Golden Syrup...and then the ants get you.

No it’s just that prescribing morality to other countries when your own country lives off being a tax haven is highly hypocritical. Apparently it doesn’t worry you.

You heard it here first folks, Ireland's tax arrangements absolve all other countries of any transgressions. German's and the holocaust, well that's nothing compared the to the double Irish. The most heinous crime in humanity's history. No weapons of mass descruction in Iraq but hundreds of thousands dead, the rise of ISIS and a massive refugee surge into Europe...well boys that's nothing compared to Ireland tax arrangements with Apple (hey isn't Apple an American company complicit in this...shhhhhhhhh!!!)

The debate was easily won when you didn’t realize that sanctioning China was part of the revolt and you produced your Irish ‘emm’.

And there it is again for the umpteenth time, the desperate need to convince himself he win's every debate. It would be sad if wasn't so pathetic.

Arguing with Anger is like swimming in Golden Syrup...and then the ants get you.

At least that sounds tasty...arguing with you only achieves in one getting splinters up their arse from all the fence setting.

"And there it is again for the umpteenth time, the desperate need to convince himself he win's every debate. It would be sad if wasn't so pathetic."

Stav, has Moffie ever demanded that you integrate x squared before?

To this day I am convinced that Moffie once got a gold star on his forehead for integrating x squared faster or better than the other plodders.

He uses it as his measure for whether someone is smarter than him or not.

I kid you not.

LMAO!

Na, I think the spoofer knows it won't work on me.

Actually it no longer works because Chat can differentiate or integrate. But for 20 years poor old Cooker was stumped by that simple bit of calculus.

One poster says it’s counterproductive to sanction China….his protagonist says ‘emm’’ who is proposing to sanction China….the debate winner says, the article which is the subject of the string you are on.

….

Have you finally figured out the link between the TAX Haven and the EU services deficit?

Did you hear that, Stav? He wins . . . yet again . . . on a thread where we're talking about his obsessive need to win every encounter.

the article which is the subject of the string you are on.

You mean the article which is behind a paywall?

Have you finally figured out the link between the TAX Haven and the EU services deficit?

Have you finally figured out bringing up Irelands tax arrangements in every single thread that I post in regardless of what's actually the topic of discussion isn't the debating masterstroke you think it is, but pretty much an admission you can't stand over your own positions and arguments, all you can do is try to distract.

Did you hear that, Stav? He wins . . . yet again . . . on a thread where we're talking about his obsessive need to win every encounter.

Gasp...No not our Moz that paragon of humility and modesty.