Wow not sure who followed the fight last night but what a performance by the "Old fat man who cannot punch".
Sure proved many a boxing pundit wrong.
Made a few bucks on the fight by betting on Fury winning and the fight not going the distance.
Tyson Fury really dominated the fight from the opening bell and silenced many a critic who gave him little to no chance of beating Wilder.
Like he said in an interview prior to the fight "All bullies fade when you stand up to them".
He sure showed them.
What a fantastic and skillful display of boxing from the Gypsy King
What Fury does for such a massive guy, is really quite something to see.....
Wilder was nowhere after round 2, he was simply bullied around the ring by the bigger and far more skillful boxer
It just shows you, that the old adage still stands...… a good boxer will always beat a good puncher on any day of the week...including Sunday morning
I saw the fight too, AJ.
Were the odds really 5 to 1 in favour of Wilder? I read that somewhere.
Anyhow, here is my take on it.
Wilder needs to sack his coaching team. They knew Fury was coming in heavy and would be less agile than last time. Wilder is a natural light heavyweight and instead of working on his movement, they relied only on plan A.
Fury is not as explosive or as fast as Wilder in any aspect of boxing. I can't understand why, after so much time as a pro, nobody has worked on his lateral movement with him.
Moving and taking less damage is always less draining than not moving and taking damage.
After round one, when it was very clear that Fury was doing what he said he was going to do, Wilder should have been instructed to move. Run if necessary, get fury tired and frustrated, d not let Fury execute his gameplan and then capitalise later on.
Especially considering he has that bomb of a jab follow-up. Which is available to him until round 12.
If I were his coach I'd have had him dancing circles in the ring for months on end. He's a very light heavyweight so a strong lateral game should be mandatory. By now he should be in the habit of using his speed advantage to get around opponents, make them miss and then deliver his hammers.
Wilder thinks in such straight lines that even while the ref pulled them apart, Fury would intentionally walk around so that Wilder ends up in the corner while Wilder, now with his back to the corner just stands there waiting for the fight to continue. That's some seriously low ring IQ. Nothing stops you from laterally positioning yourself during a reset, when there is no pressure on you, so that you don't restart with your back tot he corner.
Mike Tyson had exceptional movement because he generally had a shorter reach and would use his movement to get on the inside, make them miss, and then punish them. If Mike never had a lateral game, nobody would know his name today. And it's not necessarily about running in circles. Lateral head and upper body movement are just effective. Wilder has zero.
TLDR: Wilder is very light for a heavyweight and should have a bigger gas tank. He's prone to getting outboxed before knocking opponents outs. His strategy should be to move as much as possible to limit damage taken, until the fight slows down, and then capitalise on gaps to land his KO.
Wilder has always depended on his knockout punch against opponents who are backing away from him.
Sure he has a great punch as his record indicates and especially when his opponents are afraid of that "PUNCH".
Fury is typically an in your face boxer and credit to his new trainer for making use of that aggression plus employing this tactic as Wilder was not familiar with an opponent coming at him.
Prior to the fight Fury made no bones about the tactics he was going to employ during the bout and he did just that as Wilder, unfortunately, found out.
Hats of to Wilder though he was man enough to admit that the better boxer won and never came up with some lame excuses as most losers always make.
Trust that the injuries he sustained during the bout are not as serious as was first reported and that he recovers fully and takes some time to revalue his career in the ring.
Seldom do boxers recover completely from such a fight be it physically or emotionally because they tend to live, hope and thrive on what once was and cannot accept the true reality.
Never to be the same boxer that they once were.
I watched a BBC interview with Fury Senior (his dad) and he mentioned some interesting points about Tyson's boxing ambitions and career from when he was just six years old.
Wilder has openly admitted on many occasions, that he relies on his right hand and does not care to win rounds in between the fight, because that right hand will come at some point.
That is a very stupid outlook to have in any fight.... I have done martial arts for most of my life and if you genuinely believe that you can just stand in front of a decent fighter, and wait or hope for that punch to land......or back up in a straight line against a heavy handed fighter, then you deserve the beating you are certainly going to get.
Wilder has never had to fight off the back foot... ever, and he could not do it when he needed to against Fury. The most devastating puncher in heavyweight history was just bullied by the more skillful boxer. Wilder cannot even jab properly moving backwards.....he prefers to wait and counter with his right hand when the opening comes.....
In some instances in this fight, Wilder was telegraphing that right hand so much, that Tyson could have made a cup of tea in the time that it took to land, yet land it did...… quite a few times.
Tyson made no qualms at all about what tactics he was going to use well before the fight even started.... he hid nothing from the Wilder camp at all..... Fury senior even offered David Haye a $100 000 bet, which he refused, that Tyson Fury would knock Wilder out inside 8 rounds, and he was absolutely spot on with that prediction.
Tyson Fury very easily beat Wilder after being out of the ring for 3 years, and he was still heavily unfit and flabby in that first fight...…. so the confidence to beat Wilder properly after a full training camp was naturally through the roof.
Tyson has proved many people wrong in the past, so well done to him.....I just hope that Wilder is ok
Too true Draad
Tyson's gas tank can carry on far longer than most people actually realise or give him credit for.... but he is hittable..
Now I see that Wilder has already confirmed that the rematch will definitely take place
I also see now that Wilder has blamed his attire for weakening his legs.... because it apparently weighed 18 kgs with materials and batteries.. which apparently weakened his legs from the walk from the dressing room to the ring..
This is a first....
He has also fired his trainer for the towel incident.... on principle
I still think that his coaches must take most of the blame. The only thing about Wilder that has improved in the last five years is his jab, marginally.
No head movement, no foot movement, one combination, poor cardio and no adaptation to match situation or opponents.
Seriously, a kid can learn a new combination in one day and commit it to muscle memory within a week or two. Foot movement isn't that complicated either.
Wilder seems to be surrounded by yes men. And as always, that caused him to pay the price.
Here's a link to the guy that I quite like on Youtube. He generally does some nice post-fight breakdowns and hardly ever misses the mark in his assessment.
His run-down of Wilder vs Fury 2
Wilder's team must definitely take responsibility, but Wilder himself has also been extremely arrogant about the power in his right hand.... he has openly stated before that he does not care about winning any rounds..... because that right hand will land.....and that is just plain stupid.
"No head movement, no foot movement, one combination, poor cardio and no adaptation to match situation or opponents"
Yep, exactly why I mentioned the backing up in a straight line..... with no movement...... you are a sitting target
Wilder should have definitely have learnt more movement given his experience already
A bit of a shame. I had hoped that he could have been that miracle fighter who beat everyone while not being able to box.
Nothing stopped him from learning how to box though. Ultimately, he'll be remembered as arrogantly relying on talent alone.
Probably a bit harsh but it is tough to get past the fact that he literally had no plan B.
Did neither him or his camp ever wonder what could happen if the much bigger guy came at him like he said he was going to from the start?
Not much to say about his walk-in other than if Tyson's came into the ring while "Everything White" was playing...we'd never hear the fucking end of it.
Imagine in years to come for Wilder... sitting on the stoep, reminiscing about the good ole days
"Hey Grandpa….how did you ever lose that Tyson fight when everyone had you winning it quite easily"
Yeah my boy... well..... that's quite a story hey...…. you see......my robe and my headwear were just too heavy for me...... and the weight killed my legs and basically made them go to sleep during the ring walk
Lmao..… what a story for the grandkids
Wilder is a lazy fighter. He has a right hand and nothing else.
He doesn't work a round to win it ... he depends on his right hand to save the day.
Well ... he was taught a lesson ... but somehow I doubt it's a lesson learnt.
It's good to see him put in his place.
He sure was put in his place.
A straight-up ass whipping.
There's rumours about him firing the guy that chucked in the towel.
" but somehow I doubt it's a lesson learnt."
May turn out to be true.
He should be thanking the guy on the account of saving him some face, in both senses .
Tyson however, is already talking about retiring.
Bullshit. Big bullshit!
I think he wants to come out of retirement twice to reclaim the title.
Wilder is really embarrassing himself now, he genuinely is
The worst part is, is that most very experienced commentators and well known boxing pundits around the world are ridiculing and chastising Wilder non stop, for this low level use of excuses for losing this fight.
Most experts are actually saying that they themselves would have stopped this fight in the 5th round already.
Kenny Bayliss has also been quoted as saying that he himself was about to call off the fight.
So, to summarise Wilder's loss
Wilder has now also accused the ref of favouring Tyson Fury in the exchanges and letting Tyson get away with deliberate fouls, despite deducting a point from Tyson...
He has also blamed the loss on his team, for throwing in the towel too early, and has since fired the person responsible
He has now also blamed his 18kg costume for weakening his legs..... the same costume that he told his closest aides, will be worth millions after he retires from boxing...… and the same costume he wore a few times beforehand, to get the fit correct, because it cost him $40 000
Wilder has also blamed it on another boxer who is friends with Tyson's trainer from the Kronk gym.
Wilder must man the fuck up and just accept his loss like a grown man....
So many people in the boxing industry are now comparing Wilder's pathetic and childish reaction after his loss to Fury...............to Joshua's recent loss to Ruiz, and they are stating how much of a clear class act Joshua was and is and how much a genuine man he is...... compared to the cry baby that Wilder is after his first real loss
Yeah, I have been watching him for a while already
I believe he dropped Joshua in sparring as well
Huge.. huge puncher, but also with some boxing skills to go with it
Also been keeping an eye on him.
I think he's still being protected for now. Hopefully in the next year or two he gets a crack at the big time.
He reminds me of both Foreman and Holyfield in equal parts...If that's even possible.
PS, I think I've watched the Fury fight about 8 times already.
Lomachenko is fighting next month.
Awesome!
Wilder has asked for a rematch as per contract so a third bout will take place hopefully this year.
I hope it takes place in Vegas as it will be sold out no doubt and a must-attend bout for me.
Yep, it looks set for the 18th July
Mayweather wants to train Wilder to beat Fury
WTF is Wilder gonna learn in three and a half months?
Out of 19 rounds, he won 2. And even those two are debatable.
It'll be career ending for him if Fury smashes him again.
Most ex boxers and commentators are saying that Wilder is incredibly stupid to enforce this rematch clause, so soon after this bad loss
A lot of them are actually saying, just stay the fuck away from Fury, period.
Wilder always knows best, besides being comprehensively thrashed in two fights already
I don't see a third fight going any differently
I think Wilder will come out throwing bombs. Probably trim down and have a bit more gas.
A punchers chance, and literally nothing but nothing else.
I'd say, envoke the rematch clause and then have a few other fights first. Meanwhile, get yourself into the best possible condition to win what is obviously your last bite at the fury apple.
What a tit.
DA
Wilder has zero defensive muscle memory. 90% of his defence is centred around aura and the fear of walking him down. .
For me, Widler's best shot is to hire someone that used to train Fury. Find out where he is defensively the weakest, and then train just to exploit those weaknesses and get the KO.
Fury does have some defensive frailties. One glaring one is, when he moves his head defensively, it's always a bit slower compared to when he moves his head before striking. His head then comes to a dead stop when he strikes.
Just an example, but exploiting that pattern from Fury wouldn't be too tough. Spot quicker head movement, watch left shoulder, as the shoulder moves even slightly forward move laterally and counter. Physically the shoulder must lead the arm when jabbing.
When Fury moves his head faster, he is basically saying, "I'm about to jab you."
Normally you'd only get the shoulder and have to watch while avoiding everything else too.
With Fury, in those situations, you now have a two-tiered warning system that gives you a window were you can safely focus just on the shoulder and then rely on muscle memory to evade and count. If you get it down pat, the counter could even be off the front foot.
If Wilder can find a weakness like that and be lucky enough for it to be a core part of Fury's game, exploiting it would probably be his best shot.
Perhaps Mayweather has spotted something like this in Fury's game and thinks he can drag Wilder over the line with it.
Time stamp 1:35 - that's the pace of head movement that always precedes that jab from Fury.
"I'd say, envoke the rematch clause and then have a few other fights first"
This I agree with Plum.... let him get down to a better fighting weight and try that new weight out with one or two journeyman fights, and then if it works out for Wilder, then go for the third fight
The only way I see Wilder doing anything with Fury is by landing a bomb.... nothing more will do in my opinion, Fury is genuinely a very skillful boxer, and he moves bloody quickly for a man his size....but I was also extremely surprised by how easily Fury took those right hands from Wilder, but was directly down to the extra weight that F ury put on for that fight
...and what do you make of "the hands turned in the glove conspiracy" to give harder impact.
Jeff Mayweather reveals flaw in Tyson Fury glove conspiracy theory vs Deontay Wilder | Metro News
I think it's just that, a conspiracy theory ...by sore loser Wilder.
Fury will take this rematch.
Then hopefully Lomachenko, now that will be a fight to remember. I'll back Vasyl on this one...the best fighter around for quite some time now since the Olympic success.
Awesome points that you have made here Plum, and another thing that was harmful to Fury was his very bad habit of resetting himself by wiping his nose and touching his head before moving forward, which Wilder picked up in the first fight...
It is incredibly difficult to train something like that out of a fighter, a bad habit......and I see that Fury did it again to some degree in the second fight with Wilder as well
"Physically the shoulder must lead the arm when jabbing"
"you now have a two-tiered warning system that gives you a window were you can safely focus just on the shoulder"
Well picked up Plum, you clearly know what you are talking about, because this is precisely what I did when I was fighting full contact, and it most definitely works once you have practiced it long enough
Thanks, DA
Question is, will 3.5 months be enough time.
Perhaps if he were 25, then yeah. At 35, not quite an old dog, but new tricks?
"Then hopefully Lomachenko, now that will be a fight to remember. I'll back Vasyl on this one...the best fighter around for quite some time now since the Olympic success."
Seb, one simply has to love Lomachenko. Everything about him screams legend. And he's just so likeable as well.
His next fight is against a very hard punching little powerhouse though. Hard punching and lightning-fast. Not quite Gary Russel levels of hand speed, but not a million miles away either.
Seb, even the purest of Wilder fans have completely distanced themselves from all his comments.
He has come across in such a bad way since he lost this first fight.... ungrateful to his team, unsportsmanlike behaviour….
He immediately said in the ring after his loss that he had complications running up to the fight, but said that the better man had won...
Then, within days after the fight....
He blamed his costume
Then he blamed the ref
Then he blamed a conspiracy with another boxer to get his team to throw in the towel
Now we hear about the gloves from other people
Give Fury the recognition he deserves...… if anything, it is Fury who should feel aggrieved because he should be 2 - 0 up on Wilder already, and the first fight, if Fury had got the proper decision, it would have gone down as the best ever comeback in the entire history of boxing.
Depression, drugs, and alcohol abuse for 2 - 3 years, and ballooning up massively in weight, and then coming back and beating the most feared puncher in the history of this sport..... spectacular achievement, anyway you look at it
"Question is, will 3.5 months be enough time.
Perhaps if he were 25, then yeah. At 35, not quite an old dog, but new tricks?"
I personally don't think so myself, but Jeff Mayweather seems to believe it can be done... but only in time..... how much time that could take is anyone's guess, is it is at all possible
Wilder is just too set in his ways, which is why he was twice exposed by Fury.. completely
Wilder only has a decent chance to win if he loses weight, and fights on his toes with constant movement around the ring..... staying away from the weight of Fury.....and utilising his long jab repeatedly…. all the time...….even double jabbing......and follow with thte right bomb.....and by staying off the fucking ropes, which was an amateur move on Wilder's part, which he did often in the last fight
Just the weight of Fury leaning on Wilder alone did a lot of damage to his stamina and legs, hence why he has to keep Fury off himself with constant ring movement
Problem is, Wilder cannot really fight going backwards, and he is also not used to it at all
I recently saw Mike Tyson talking to Sugar Ray on a podcast, where Mike starts crying..... it is heart breaking to see what this man goes through everyday..... and how much he misses boxing, but he is also too scared to let the old Mike out, because he says "Then hell will come with it"
What a humble man who displays such humility these days.....and Wilder reckons a prime Mike would have no chance...… LMAO
Fury wants Lomachenko to put on weight. Has a lightweight ever beaten a heavy weight, I'm not sure but I saw a middle weight take a heavy to the cleaners.
Does boxing now allows this, I'm not sure.
Lomachenko is the best I've seen for a very long time and his style, footwork and movement is pure dynamite and yes can you imagine if he was a light heavyweight.
If they break the ruling I'm certain Vasyl would take him, history is meant to be broken.
Middleweght Roy Jones Jnr versus John Ruiz Heavy weight.
https://youtu.be/NSlFSq3pLLk
Sorry to butt in here guys, but I just want to know if I'm understanding something correctly . . . is Tit seriously suggesting that Tyson Fury (115kg) and Vasyl Lomachenko (60kg) would fight each other in the same ring . . . and Loma would win?
Is that what I'm reading here?
Some good points made on this thread by some of our posters who clearly know their boxing . . . but then Tit comes along with this laughably stupid idea and all credibility goes out the window.
Seb,
Huh?
Lomachenko at 90KGs would be a little muscular creature, hardly able to move. Even then, he'd land punches on Fury but it'll be like a mosquito in front of a train.
Yeah, there's a big grey area in the middle section of weights.
At a stretch, you could perhaps bulk up a superwelterweight to potentially compete against a cruiserweight but unless he's already a tall guy with lots of room for bulking, it'll be a lost cause. It would be a huge mismatch, even if the welterweight had everything in his favour.
Lightweight to heavyweight, I can't see it happening...outside of some exhibition match .
So Plum, are you reading Tit's posts the same way I am? He's seriously suggesting a fight between Lomachencko and Fury . . . and not only that, he's actually tipping Loma to win such a fight?
LMAO!
I'm fully aware that's out of the question, just supposing if weights could be manipulated in fantasy, if that were possible, obviously it's not.
But then Fury is either brain damaged or smoking something.
In an interview he said this:
https://youtu.be/WfgzNPdL5r4
Oh shut up Rooinek, always poking your snout in, I was not talking to you and it's none of your business.
Always twisting things out of context, heard of tongue in cheek "if they break the ruling".
Fury was asked who he liked to fight and he said Lomachenko if he moved up in weight.
You cannot take anything with a pinch of salt and always take things literally and have no sense of the ridiculous.
What an idiot.