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FORUM / RUGBY /  A rugby topic: Super Rugby judiciary rulings raise questions over rationale for bans; by TOBY ROBSON

A rugby topic: Super Rugby judiciary rulings raise questions over rationale for bans; by TOBY ROBSON

Started by Just_win7 REPLIES262 VIEWS· 24 Feb 2015, 15:57
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
24 Feb 2015, 15:57
#1
24 Feb 2015, 15:57#1

The explanation and rationale for bans handed down to Crusaders prop Owen Franks and Blues lock Hayden Triggs are flawed at best - a joke at worst.

It's hard to know where to start, but lets start by giving judicial officer Robert Stelzner a pat on the back for giving Highlanders prop Kane Hames an enforced five week holiday.

Hames punched Crusaders lock Dominic Bird in the face during their Super Rugby derby in Dunedin.

Bird was defenceless lying at the bottom of a heap of bodies when Hames decided to attack him from above. It was unprovoked and left Bird with a badly damaged eye socket.

Stelzner considered the punch in the mid-range of offending, gave Hames seven weeks due to the damage he caused, then cut back to five for guilt and remorse. 

Fair enough.

But if Stelzner got off to a solid start, his next two rulings were difficult to follow.

Triggs, cited for punching Stormers No 8 Duane Vermeulen during the Blues loss in Cape Town, was suspended for just one week.

Triggs retaliatory attack was deemed at the low-range entry point for offending, but where things got odd was the justification for reducing the ban from two weeks to one.


"The adverse effect of the player's actions on his own team's prospects of winning by his being ordered off at a relatively early part of the match, after his team had been awarded a penalty which could potentially have put the Blues in the lead, further played a role in recommending the sanction," Stelzner wrote in his ruling.

So, if the Blues had gone on to win, would Triggs have got two weeks? Does the severity of offending change depending on the score at the time? Or the final result? Or what happened during the immediate play before you punch someone?

The logic seems bizarre.

And so does Franks' two week suspension for twice slamming his arm into the head of Highlanders prop Josh Hohneck at Forsyth Barr Stadium.

"The player submitted that he was attempting to remove the Highlanders player from the wrong side of maul," Stelzner wrote.

"His intention was to remove the player, who was quite [a bit] bigger than him, by grabbing him around the chest which would require some force, then using his bodyweight to attempt to force his opponent down and away from the ball."

Hohneck is 1.90m and 118kg. Franks is 1.85m and 118kg. That's just 5cm difference.

And while it's plausible Franks was trying to remove Hohneck from the maul in the first instance, once he'd pulled his opponent to the ground it is difficult to understand what his second strike was trying to achieve.

The judiciary found Franks had been "reckless", but that his offending was "not intentional". A third week was added to his suspension, but taken off due to his long and blemish free record. 

Whatever the case, his two week ban seems lenient compared to Hames' five. Even more so when a Crusaders training match during their bye round has been included in Franks' suspension. 

With top All Blacks already having their playing minutes restricted in World Cup year, as well as two enforced rest weeks, it is difficult to understand how, or why, Franks would be adding a training match into his schedule.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
24 Feb 2015, 16:02
#2
24 Feb 2015, 16:02#2
Mozart has succeeded in luring most into a "debate" on subjects that will never reach resolution. Fair enough but at least lets make these debates somewhat rugby related. 
The global warming debate sounds like it is fuelled by copious amounts of hot air, lol
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Feb 2015, 16:21
#3
24 Feb 2015, 16:21#3
 JW 
Thanks for this article.  I am not a lawyer - but Stelzner's reasoning quoted above has zero - bugger-all - to do with the applications of the rugby laws and everything to do with trying to manipulate outcomes of matches.   He should be severely reprimanded for that comment alone and should preferably not deal with any further hearings of the relevant nature since he made a complete idiot of himself in the cases he dealt with.
What is all this talk about provocation about - there was no real evidence about provocation on the part of Vermeulen and one would like to know  what brought this one into the mix.  
The comments published show a complete contempt for the refereeing as well - Triggs should not have been red-carded and the Blues could have won the game.  After all the decision caused a turnaround of a penalty which would have put the Blues in the lead - what has that to do with the legal aspects at all.   If at all that should worsen the contravention and increase the sentence.     
This is a recipe for disaster in future hearings of the relevant nature - especially when the potential winning or losing of matches becomes the criteria for determination of sentences.
    
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Feb 2015, 09:27
#4
26 Feb 2015, 09:27#4
 It would be quite interesting to see a full transcript of the proceedings. How it can be a low range entry point is beyond me. Provocation, remorse??? What kind of evidence?IMO all transcripts of hearings should be m ade public because at this stage the bizarre differences in sanctions does the game more of a disservice than the offences in the first place.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Feb 2015, 09:51
#5
26 Feb 2015, 09:51#5
 DbDraad
I could only judge from the published comments - but if those are correct we have a huge problem here.   We have a case of the potential outcome of matches taking precedence over the rules/laws of rugby and that by the judicial officer concerned.  That is absolute BS.   Any reference to that type of thing should never be put in writing and if the judicial officer is indeed a lawyer - he should be aware of the implications that would have - especially if it used to soften the sentence.    
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Feb 2015, 11:21
#6
26 Feb 2015, 11:21#6
 Ja Mike, it should be all about intend and not the outcome. Hy threw 2 punches to the face. 2 x offence. 2 x 2 weeks minimum! The aftermath has nothing to do with the act and thus should not have bearing on the sanction.  Sounds like he was trying to find a reason to give the absolute minimum sanction. 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
26 Feb 2015, 15:04
#7
26 Feb 2015, 15:04#7
There has to be more consistency & logic to these rulings. Sometimes these blokes sound like mad men. So much effort is put into trying to ensure the game is above board (& kiwis lead the way of course) and these statements in the press don't explain what look like major incons istencies. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Feb 2015, 00:12
#8
27 Feb 2015, 00:12#8
 JW
Not sure Beeno will agree on your "& Kiwis lead the way of course" remark on this score
Myself I think that we have been at the receiving end of too many NZ skulduggery programmes to be sure of your remark as well.    
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