FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  A time to learn....I swear it's not to late

A time to learn....I swear it's not to late

Started by Mozart21 REPLIES432 VIEWS· 30 Nov 2014, 16:24
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2014, 16:24
#1
30 Nov 2014, 16:24#1

The lesson was there for us to see in the S15 semi....Lambie and Reinach were unable to provide any impetus to the Shark's effort. Hard working, support players like Coetzee became irrelevant. We had no dominance. Yesterday was the same....a feeble un Bok like performance.

 

 

Contrast that with last year  where a fresher Vermeulen, Louw and Alberts dominated the breakdown. Apart from the Welsh test last year....where we had Lambie playing a very similar befuddled game at flyhalf....we cruised in our matches. Wales was rescued by a beautiful long strike Habana try.

 

 

The Boks need to dominate up front. To do so we need Willemse/Flip a blocky lock and one more power loosie, Alberts if he recovers from injury. It would be sheer madness to rely on Coenie and Coetzee is a sub.....he is neither a fetcher, nor the power runner we need at 7.

 

 

Leaving out Pollard, the one Bok back that worries opponents is a mistake. This Lambie experiment which is now in its 5 th year has to cease.....he is a fullback and quite a decent one. We also cant continue with Hougaard at all....the man is a wreck. Reinach can be used as a sub providing a late match running option.

 

 

Yesterday saw all the legitimate fears come true.....time to get real again. It was so obvious with the departure of Schalk, Habana and JP we had a very vulnerable team. Something else to lose....the fear of using overseas players. We are not the ABs.

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
30 Nov 2014, 16:35
#2
30 Nov 2014, 16:35#2
 Reinach is 2nd in my pecking order with Du Preez first, he's one of the only older and foreign players that is the best in their respective positions. The other being Habana.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
30 Nov 2014, 16:38
#3
30 Nov 2014, 16:38#3
Had Faf De Klerk not been injured I would have picked him but Reinach has looked decent at test level. I don't particularly know what you expect from the scrum half but his service was good enough and his kicking whilst not perfect didn't let the team down. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2014, 16:48
#4
30 Nov 2014, 16:48#4
 Mozart the ilkusssionist is at it again.   
"Contrast that with last year  where a fresher Vermeulen, Louw and Alberts dominated the breakdown."

Albert dominating the breakdown is a serious joke - Alberts never does ball protection - neithr ball recvery and his favourite pplay is tostand around behind mauls - so  here we have an illusion at work a agian.   So what went wrong yesterday The weak link in the Tight 5 was again the spal Matfield - weakiening our mauls ad brekdoiowns immeurably.   He was the one that cost us forward domination.
Easy to blame Lambie - normally Mozart's target.   What happened when Lambie made a good break early on and was in the open?    Where was De Villiers, Serfontein and he wings to support the breaks and to be running in support to take passes from Lambie - nowhere in site.   When he made a kick downfield where were the players to follow up the kick - nowhere.   
The question is what did De Villiers do of any substance when he got the ball before his injury - nothing.
The swweepingstatements is so void of substance - iti is amazing.  Suiddenly we need a power runnner at 7.  Who is this power runner?  Alberts - I suppose. the playyer who makes 1 meter and is then tackled - showing what power-runs?   TYhe so-called power-runner who in a season managed to never pass balls.  Of what effect  is such  "power-runner".
 "Yesterday saw all the legitimate fears come true.....time to get real again. It was so obvious with the departure of Schalk, Habana and JP we had a very vulnerable team. Something else to lose....the fear of using overseas players."  
Three foreign-based playesrs listed  - pf which only Burger and Habana - with a question mark added - was of any use this year.   Pietersen was poor and seriously lacked pace.   What about the othr freign-club players - those who should not have been anywhere near the Springbok squad - Botha, Steenkamp and  Steyn?  We should eb seriously scared of using them.   Botha retired realizing he was not good enough anymore - yet from a tight  5 perpective he was better than Slappies Matfield.
Mozart  always tell us the Bulls won more matches when atfield returned to tplay form them - so here we have another example - the Springboks lost more matches since Matfield returned for them.   Compr ehande?    
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2014, 16:58
#5
30 Nov 2014, 16:58#5
 What a crock of shit.....what this tour confirmed is that Meyer is a useless coach out of touch with who his best players are. The selection of the pathetically useless Matfield epitomises this.
I said we would lose all our tests to Oz and NZ, I was wrong but that has been surpassed by losses to Ireland and Wales. It's simply not good enough. If the board had any balls they would sack the utterly useless Meyer now.
The guy can't even get the basics right like selecting the best 15.
Sack Meyer NOW

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2014, 17:17
#6
30 Nov 2014, 17:17#6
No the tour showed we had very special players 5 years ago....now we have older special players and very few youngsters that can compete with the best in the game. There is no obvious answer, and it's not going to be easier next year. If we had gone the Sapp route we wouldn't have won one game in the RC. The absence of Habana, Schalk and JP since England is massive. 
You had the team you wanted, except for Matfield, Jean and Mohoje who is compulsory ....and we lost
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2014, 17:46
#7
30 Nov 2014, 17:46#7
Mozart 
Older special players - who are they?    If you say Matfield - go and consult your shrink - maybe he would eb able to bring you back to reality.    Bar schalk - what exactly did Habana and JP do in the game against England?
Shall I remind you by quoting their stats?
Pietersen0/001/1/4500012/40/000/
Habana0/000/2/31000112/00/020/0
How massive is their absence compared to what they actualy acheved a gainst England?    The only thing of significance Pietersen did was to miss more tackles thn eh made - and Habana had the signature achioevement fo goicving away two penalties - nothing else.   
So what massive thing we missed since the English test?   
 Stop talking general tripe and get down to the real issue here.  What in a broader sense is wrong with Myr's team and squad selections?  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2014, 17:46
#8
30 Nov 2014, 17:46#8
Duplication
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2014, 17:48
#9
30 Nov 2014, 17:48#9
 Wrong our best players by some distance have been the youngsters like Willie,  Serfontein,  Pollard,  Lambie, Reinach, Hougaard,  Etzebeth, Coetzee and Vermeulen. .....Carr showed us the same last week.
Had Meyer invested in more of the youngsters and not relied on the utterly useless geriatrics our rugby might have moved on by now.
With the inclusion of a player like Matfield our rugby had regressed. Why would it not for goodness sake he is 37.
Meyer started well but instead of showing faith in his choices he was hell bent on introducing the old and with it has come the embarrassment of the EOYT. His treatment of players like Pollard,  de Allende and Lood sum the man up.....he is clueless.
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
30 Nov 2014, 18:48
#10
30 Nov 2014, 18:48#10

The difference between this and last year is for me:


The Boks maul has become very porous lately. We do not have strong enough players (locks?) in there to seal it off which then allow the opposition to create a turnover or to regain a potential turnover for us. Oupa and Victor seems guilty in this endeavour.


We are too slow to get enough players to the breakdown to compete for the ball on the ground and this is where we need a player like Jaco Kriel. Schalk Burger would have been the ideal player but age has caught up with him and he has lost a lot of speed. Alberts has never been a fetcher and will probably never be one. He prefers to play from the ball and not to the ball.


Our scrum has gone backwards despite the fact that we still have the same starting front row in Jannie, Bismarck and Beast. Jannie and Beast are no longer what they used to be. Their replacements Coenie, Guthro/Nyakane are not up to the task. Coenie showed some improvement yesterday, but I do remember a scrum where we were pushed back quite seriously. I fail to understand why Meyer just bluntly refuse to give the props of the Lions front row a chance - what more does one want in Schalk van der Merwe and Dreyer or Redelinghuys?

The deterioration in our lineouts is worrying. Victor has lost some of his mojo and it is further noteworthy how often he calls for the ball to go to Etzebeth and not to him.


The arrival of Pollard has resulted in our backline standing very shallow, but the grubber or chip-kick has not been utilised because we do not have enough speed or ball handling skill to recover the ball from such kicks.


There has been a serious decline in Willie's game and we keep on playing scrummies like Hougaard who has lost the plot completely. Faf de Klerk's injury may serve as an excuse, but from what I saw this far, Meyer will not select him and will rather again go with the now too slow Fourie du Preez.


An early exit at the RWC is on the cards if Meyer is not prepared to gamble and drop those that can no longer deliver. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2014, 20:24
#11
30 Nov 2014, 20:24#11
 Blikkies 
I have to agree with 90%  or more with what you wrote above.  Matfield has become a serious liability in the team and Meyer refuses to even loo at it.   
I have serious reservations about some of the players that seems to be back from the 2007 WC.  For heavens sake it is more than 7 years later and even if they were youngish then - which the majority were not - they would be way past their prime at this stage.   
Lets be brutally clear - in the 2007 WC squad there were only two youngsters - Francois Steyn and JP Pietersen.  For a variety of reasons they have not performed well since 2012.   Both are supposedly in their prome playing years - both showed up 100 % worse than older teammates - Habana and Burger.   Make no mistake - Burger plays well at times - but he has also done very little in some games - ie against Ireland.   Habana as been off the boil in virtually all tests this year and one really has doubts about what he would be like next year.  
I think he major problem encountered at present preceede the  Meyer years.   Between 2007 and 2011 only minimal changes were made to the 2007  WC winning squad and the senior players took over the deicidng role in the team - D e Villiers were too feeble a personality to control them.   By 2011 the team was in serious decline and it showed in the 2011 WC campaign.
Meyer - when he was appointed as coach - did not know the way out of the dreadful 2011 performances.   He panicked and went for most of the players who were in the team or on the fringes in 2011 after being  unsuccessful in his efforts to get Matfield and Du Preez back to take on the captaincy.  He had a whole 2012 Super rugby season to assess players to get an idea of who to select.   He ignored the performances of players  and the result was a revolving door of Bulls players in and out of the squad - in fact 14 of their 15 frontlie players were involved) and then after an iffy RC campaign decided to call up Gurthro Steenkamp into the EOYT.   Gurthro flopped - but Meyer kept him in all subeseuqnet squads.
2013 showed some improvement in performances - but again,  after dropping Morne Steyn from the team becaue of atrocious performances  in 2012, the Morne  Steyn problem kicked in again  and he ws a disaster in the tests against the All Blacks.  Panic sets in again and this time the number of foreeign club players went even higher with Bakkies being included.   Bakkies failed in both tests he played in - but that did not stop Meyer from including him in all subsequent squads.
Meyer turned a blind eye to the failures in the squads he selected - with a result that the squads became a comedy of failed playeers and a situation where it was impossible to solve the problem of under-performance by players.   At this stage we have a highly-problematic squad of players with failures being in critical positions and serious difficulties in replacing them.   
In essence the problem was that poor squad seection and the non-identification of failed players - especially among the forwards have us in a situation where we are at present.       
  
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
30 Nov 2014, 20:50
#12
30 Nov 2014, 20:50#12
 Our lineout has been fine, according to BBC it was the second best line out this season and with the most average steals per game.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2014, 21:03
#13
30 Nov 2014, 21:03#13
Good stat Shezza....it's hard to keep it real with all the disinformation from the OOm.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2014, 21:21
#14
30 Nov 2014, 21:21#14

I have no issue with Matfield's ability in the line-outs, its as good as any other lock out there.......but that's where it ends with the old man.


A liability of the highest order in contact......evidenced again yesterday  

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
30 Nov 2014, 21:26
#15
30 Nov 2014, 21:26#15
Etzebeth, Vermeulen and Mohoje have made the most steals this season. Matfield has only made 2 steals in 12 games for the Boks. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2014, 21:38
#16
30 Nov 2014, 21:38#16

As I said Matfield is no better than any other lock out there in the line-outs, so what he is doing in the side is beyond me given he has been so exposed physically.


 

TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
30 Nov 2014, 21:44
#17
30 Nov 2014, 21:44#17
 The steals is easy to explain. The opposition rarely throws where Matfield is standing. So the Boks know if they want to contest it will usually be at one of the other positions. His presence makes the opposition throws predictable.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2014, 21:56
#18
30 Nov 2014, 21:56#18
Bullshit......Matfield is no threat in the line outs these days......his presence in the side is an asset to the opposition
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2014, 22:25
#19
30 Nov 2014, 22:25#19
The problem is not only Matfield steals - it is when teh opposition steal balls where Mafield is.  Watch the line-out steal by the All Blacks before they scored a try late in the game.    
The number of line outs taken by Matfield has declined drastically since June - and he is nothing but an aver gae line out player at pesent.   However,  average int aking line outs and weak subsequently.   The opposition jut pushed  him out of the way in the case of attemoted mauls and that is a fact. 
Mozart
Whjat abou the statistical proff that Matfield line out takes deecreased by circa 30% in June?  is that disinformation too?     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2014, 23:12
#20
30 Nov 2014, 23:12#20
 Yes we did watch that All Black steal. And as the commentators said the ball was under thrown. Matfield remains  a lineout master. He delivers the ball faster than any lock in the game. He also made 10 tackles yesterday, safely took numerous kickoffs....and stopped a Welsh try on the line when Wales were a man up...which drew a " brilliant tackle" from the emotional Welsh commentator
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2014, 23:30
#21
30 Nov 2014, 23:30#21
Crap all locks deliver the ball at speed, Etzebeth has mastered the art........right at the start of the game, a Welshman ran straight through weak Matfield......he was owned in contact all game as he has been all year.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2014, 23:45
#22
30 Nov 2014, 23:45#22
 Mozart
The line out master took exactly 3 line out throws form own thro yesterday and wonder-above wonder - he took one on oppositon throw in as well.  That is not the work of a line out master at all - so come up with the answer.   Matfild called line outs to him in June and took a number of line uts - since then his takes has been decreased by 30% on own throw?  Why does he prsist in calling balls to other players and not to him.
You came up with the excuse about Matfield's line out miss against the  AB's before - and the excuse was a complete hash of garbage.   That is not the only throw he missed recently - there were others as well.   One was even yesterday - but the impact was not as bad as was the AB one.   
He took exactly one kick of yesterday - period - not kick -offs - don't manufacture more.   His only claim to fame now is he took 10 tckles - what a joke - why does it happen?   Because he does not do his work in Tight 5 play and loiter around behind mauls and make some weak tackles when a player carry the balls in that direction.
In the emantime he is a serious liability weakening the Tight 5 completely.  Watch the mauls yesterday and see howthe  Welsh just pushed him out when the Springboks tried to drive.   It really is amazing that you refise to admit that Matfield is a Tight 5 liability.    
      
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news