All Blacks - Performance

Sasu

There is something that has been bothering me in the performances of the All Blacks and the New Zealand teams in Super 15 during the past year and I want to soind you out on this one.   In Super 15 games too often o this forum  I referred to handling errors and even defensive lapses - whilst praising the New Zealand teams for very entertaining rugby,   I am not dealing with the final here - I think the Sharks ran out of gas and could not compete in the final.

However, I would more specifically refer to the tests played this year.   The Irish has gone badly back in performances - and is not really the team they were four or five years ago.   Too many of their players are in the team on the basis of reputation - not actual performances.   It is very much lie it is in New Zealand when it comes to McCaw or will be in time to come - it is unthinkable to leave out O'Driscoll.   There are a few others as well that is not up to standard anymore.   The first test was an easy win for the All Blacks - the second test a near disaster - the third one the All Blacks won with a record score.   In the third test the Irish was exceedingly poor - so it is a difficult yardstick to be used to determine quality of performances by the All Black players.

Then came the test against the Wallabies in Sydney and the All Blacks won - but not really all that convincingly.   In the second test they performed much better - but they still failed to score four tries.   Then came the game against the Argentinians and again they were not very convincing.  They won in the end - but it was with some degree of difficulty.

I predicted a huge win by the All Blacks against the Springboks and although they won - they were practically handing the victory on a platter by three very poor players in the SA team, namely Griessel, Morne Steyn and Kirchner.   Without those three impediments the All Blacks would not have won - so the problem remains, what is amiss in the New Zealand team?    About the Springboks - I think that the poor three will be out of the team sooner rather than later and then the playing field would be much more even and more difficult for the All Blacks.

However, what is wrong in the All Black team?   I believe there are problems on various fronts - and am going to give my opinion on several of those:-

*    There are players like Weepu and even Hore that should not be in the team at all.   New Zealand has so many younger players with vast potential - why stick with those two.   The props are also not up to standard..

*   There are some players who did not perform well yesterday.   Those are some key players in the All Black set-up and I am going to get burnt for what I am writing here.   I would say the under-performers yesterday were Romano, Whitelock and Reid.   The latter did one thing well - the off-load to Dagg - but for the rest he was a serious liability giving awy too many penalties.

*   Now for the really problematic one and that is McCaw.   He was not very visible yesterday - bar the follow-up of the missed pemalty late in the day and the incident involving the idiotic Griessel.    Question is - is he really getting worse and is the age factor coming into play?   I know I will be crucified for this one - but I nonetheless think there is a problem in his case.   He definitely is not the player of two years ago.

 *  Insofar as Cruden is concerned - he definitely is a good player - but certainly not on par with Carter.   On Saturday he was not much better than Morne Steyn and it is reported that Steyn had an atrocious game.   That leaves a serious problem for the All Blacks - since Carter is to my mind injury-prone at this stage of his career.

In essence I think the All Blacks coach should look at the team and team members objectively and decide on a renewal programme - if not I see difficulty for the All Blacks in years to come.

By the way - I don't think Meyer would dare to stick with the under-perfmers in the team and I foresee that Lambie and Goosen will come into the picture sooner rather than later.   In any event - the question remains - how much did you guys pay Griessel to play for New Zealand?   LOL

Mike a very valid question and respectfully asked. I am afraid though the typical ab fan as represented by saSUE, Hakwa and brycy have their heads buried in the sand. Denial is their game.

fat boy weepooo is there for the haka. fat boy mealmu is overthe hill.  Hore is ordinary, mccaaaw is there for the post match interviews. Nonu is not the force he was. carol jane is ordinanary and Read their claimed greatest player on the planet is way overrated as well . A half fit Vermuelen outplayed him comprehensively. I cant see what the fuss is re this ab side. No wonder the Boks dominated the game.

Anyhow is good to see the ab bubble has burst as it had lasted far too long.

Meyer will make the changes necessary as he sees who can and who cant.  The writing is on the wall abs.

We have to help the ab fans to lower their expectations. I fear for their mental state once the Boks take over. Bwahahahahahahahaha

come come Beeno, just because we are passionate and die-hard ABs supporters does not mean we are blind and stupid! Mozzie makes valid points!

This is a grafting period for the ABs - the grafting in of young talent while we phase out the old! This is also a period of studying the methods of Meyer and Argentina and locking that into the data bank. This is also a period of experimentation for the new Coaching Team, to fine tune what works and discard what doesn't! We are wise enough not to get carried with the wins (they are bonus) and if we lose one or two games along the way, we use that as a springboard to learn about the methods of the other team and maybe incoorperate that into our own and also highlight our own weaknesses and players and how to improve them and our methods.

Boys, we have a very balanced and global outlook with the retaining of the Bill in 2015 as our Primary Goal and it certainly doesn't hurt to retain the Rugby Championship and Bledisloe along the way.

@clevermike,

nice read and i will reply laters after work, but i made similar sentiments in the way the All Blacks performances to date. agree with some of what u say, but will reply later. :o)

@clevermike - interesting post mike cheers! Good to get some really different approaches at times......

I havent had the advantage to go over the game again as I have been away with work but nonetheless I was sincerely surprised and will definatley have to eat some of my own words! However, I also had questions about the game and particuarly after your post. Interesting that we are breaking down the AB's performances to ascertain why maybe we can 'see more light' where maybe the tunnel was pretty dark for Bok rugby or am I assuming something different here?

Nonetheless, I did state in one of my last posts that playing the AB's always brings the 'best' out of us, and looking at the matchups on the field the Boks should have lost by heaps. However it is fantastic to see some pride for the first time this year. Very proud to see the majority of our forward pack match up against the AB's and though we only scored 1 try it was pleasing to see that we did create other opportunities. 

On a negative we 'lost' when we should have won - much like the game against the Wallabies! I just hope that our team confidence levels do not wane too low as this will be dangerous. We need some luck and hopefully we get that when the last two games are played at home. I dont wont to get into the debate around those kicks we missed or the yellow card or missed trie scoring opportunities as it gets a bit painful...sob sob

So any way here are some of my thoughts. History has always shown that those nations that have won the RWC have struggled the proceeding year for various reasons.

Such as:

• retirement of senior players
• new coach
• new ideals
• new culture
• winning the ultimate prize and crowned RWC diminshes motivation
• new playing strategy from new coaching regieme
• change of player leadership roles
• changes to game rules maybe?
• etc etc etc

Against the odds this year the AB's have managed to stay unbeaten in 7 tests so in fairness they have gone aqainst the trend that has proceeded since the RWC first started in 1987 that winners of the cup have very average years proceeding. They already have the Bledisloe, the Mandela and probably have secured the RC.

So I am disagreeing on some of your points and for good reason. One is that when you look at the history between our nations there has never been a soft test no matter who has walked onto the field. I am convinced that both nations whom are vigorously proud could put on 3rd level teams but they would stil run out and play rugby with intensity and pride.

And that is why we need to be careful to not read to much into this close game for what it was. That takes nothing away from what we achieved and how we played but you are judged on your results and again we were on the negative end of the ledger. SA had nothing to lose so all the pressure was on NZ and when the return game comes back to SA the pressure will be reversed to SA to not go down to the AB's again.

Also we need to note that we may have woken them up and that the AB's now know what to expect and wont be so arrogant the next time out in SA. I envisage that their tactics will change to counter what we delivered - cant wait to see the return match.

I have said more than once that we need to analyse what the AB's are doing well or do better than us and try match it or better it but do it with our competencies and framework. Change the old dated game plan even though it came close this time most often it doesnt come off against the big guns.

 I would have to say that HM needs a pat on the back for motivating the guys and obvioulsy leaning on various stratergies that worked for long periods of time. But he also needs to be shot in the head for continuing with tactics that are obviously outdated and have been out thought many times over and before. Maybe that is his lack of international inexperience showing its ugly face.

Also when over the last 20 years has SA rugby dominated the international lanscape to a point that NZ has? Pretty easy to answer really, not many.  The reason I point this out is that the NZ renewal programme has always been better than everyone elses and that can simply be justified by their win loss ratio against every one else so I am sure they are intelligent enough to know what future proofing is all about - unlike SA whom has lost hundreds of test caps in the space of 10 months and as soon as we get injuries our game struggles.

Dan Carter/Aron Cruden/ Beadun Barret interesting point as it is as much debate as it is with Morne and Johann only difference is that NZ have one of best in the world and have a deputy that is gaining more and more experience as time goes bye.

Turn that around on us and it is clear that Goosen is in the books and will be fed in slowly nonetheless we have Morne and when you look at the depth after he goes it starts to look very thin with experience!

I hope the AB;'s leave Weepu on but after seeing him taken off at halftime I think his days are numbered and NZ certainly have a few good backups. Mealamu and Hore I think are both slow coaches and Bissie seems to dominate them every time he goes up against both. As for McCaw I agree that he has definately slowed up and past his best but the game I watched the guy was everywhere so not sure what you meant about him not being visible.

Plenty of hope shown and lots of pride finally delivered by our boys, however I suggest we put all our attention on getting our injured guys back and upgrading our fitness and conditioning programmes so that we can start to compete on a leve; playing field and finally deliver the promise that we know we have!!

Go the Bokkie!!!!!

@radtad spot on as always mate

Radtad

I posted this in an effort to get a response from the New Zealand guys on this site.   In essence I agree with what you said - but there is also some reason for disquiet on the part of the All Blacks.   They have not been consistent this year and seems to win - but not always convincingly.  

When writing the above - I have borne in mind some things mentioned by the panel on the Re-Union programme.   Would still like to see the response.

Meyer - yes I do give him credit for inspiring the guys - but certainly I do not give him credit for his team selection.   He has been playing around with selection of players like Greyling and Kruger - both serious flops - and then also with Kirchner and to a lesser extend Morne.   I have had serious reservations about Kirchner and analyzed careful what he was up to on Saturday - what I see was very bad (as outlined in another post).   The guy seems to have lost it - he tries to be anyweher at once and nowhere most times.   Other negatives as well.

Then Meyer is sticking with Morne at flyhalf and the dolt as backline coach.    That is not very promising.   I have a feeling Meyer is going to see what went wrong on Saturday and take further action.  

Clevermike, Good read... I agree with some of your points. However....

"*    There are players like Weepu and even Hore that should not be in the team at all.   New Zealand has so many younger players with vast potential - why stick with those two.   The props are also not up to standard.." ~ Weepu is the most experienced halfback in the squad. He wasn't on song on Saturday however he is still a great impact player (ie Pumas test). If he was to be omitted from the squad, the senior half would be Smith with 7 caps... In regard to Hore and Mealamu; They are starting to look old and tired. NZ has a problem with depth at #2.

"*   There are some players who did not perform well yesterday.   Those are some key players in the All Black set-up and I am going to get burnt for what I am writing here.   I would say the under-performers yesterday were Romano, Whitelock and Reid.   The latter did one thing well - the off-load to Dagg - but for the rest he was a serious liability giving awy too many penalties."  ~ Agree with you here. Read has been a penalty magnet recently (last two games). However in the Bledisloe tests he was HUGE! This guy plays with a lot of flair, needs to find his mojo again.    

"*   Now for the really problematic one and that is McCaw.   He was not very visible yesterday - bar the follow-up of the missed pemalty late in the day and the incident involving the idiotic Griessel.    Question is - is he really getting worse and is the age factor coming into play?   I know I will be crucified for this one - but I nonetheless think there is a problem in his case.   He definitely is not the player of two years ago." ~ People have been saying this for years! Could not disagree more on this one. Seriously, check out his stats for this season. Sure, he is not the No.1 "fetcher" but his overall game is still second to none. He can give ANYONE a run for their money at 6, 7 & 8... His experience as a player and captain cannot be replaced! Two more victories will be his 100th (from 112)!!! Forget 100 caps..... 100 test wins!!!!  

"*  Insofar as Cruden is concerned - he definitely is a good player - but certainly not on par with Carter.   On Saturday he was not much better than Morne Steyn and it is reported that Steyn had an atrocious game.   That leaves a serious problem for the All Blacks - since Carter is to my mind injury-prone at this stage of his career." ~ Agree, Good player but has been exposed as inexperienced and a little one-dimensional (bit harsh comparing him to Morne :P). He lacks balance at this stage in his career (still early days) and struggles without SBW. Barrett is showing signs of composure beyond his years. He has attacking flair, can pull off the 'conservative' approach and has a great kicking game to boot. He should be master Carter's successor IMO.

This (close to full strength) AB team is definitely beatable and the last test exposed some frailties (on the ground unexpectedly). The best thing going for them is their resolve; Their ability to grind out wins whilst not quite clicking. Just watch out for when they do...        

@clevermike,

i posted something on abs.com very similar to ur comments, basically i was saying we dont want to go to soccer city playing the way we have been, cos other then the 3rd irish test, we havent been able to string together a complete performance, we had a good run in the first irish test with a dominant win, but it was still filled with errors.
IMO while the All Blacks havent preformed the way everyone would expect, their is really only one measuring stick to be measured by, and that is victory. the hallmark of a champion team is being able to win matches that they could have easily lost

i never really predicted a huge win against the Boks, IMHO the All Blacks bring out the best in the Boks and the wallabies for that matter (and the worst in some of their fans, lolz) and because of this, the Boks and wallabies are always able to find something inside of them that facing a team like the pumas or england just cant bring out or spark. im not saying they dont want to win any less, but the rugby DNA inside of everyone knows that an All Black scalp is the rarest in the world, i mean for the last 12 years, the Boks have won 9 from 30 test matches against the All Blacks and only two in NZ.
i wouldnt look too much into the way the All Blacks preform against the wallabies and Boks, we hold our breaths in NZ or OZ in my case when we face them, as they have beaten us before many times before.

its easy to make excuses for why the All Blacks arent really synergised at the moment, but thats probably a good thing for world rugby, cos theres not a team in the world that would match us if the fundamentals were executed with more efficency.
like i said, All Blacks have heaps of room for improvement, especially in attack and hopefully we can get it right, cos the Boks in soccer city and the wallabies at suncorp are the All Blacks two hardest matches of the year and if our SANZAR brothers gain the upper hand, then we could very well lose both, especially if we perform the way we did last week.

to some of those points u mentioned as to why we might having so much problems, holy crapamondo, everything that wfunston said is like he took every word out of mouth, agree 100% with everything he said, berween him and radtad1, i really didnt have anything to say except i concur, lolz,,,but cheers for another great read, :o)

AB's are reminding me a bit of the 2003 RWC champion English side won the most important games no matter how ugly it was.

Sasu and others

Thanks for the response to my posting.  Just one more thing  - I normally do not take note of the balls written on this site by some contributors - but from what Meyer said on his return and some comments by experts - it is clear that the forwards (even without Greyling) really dominated forward play and got the better of the All Black forwards.    Also think that was not really far off the mark.   Time for some serious homework for the AB's 

Spot on Mike all we have to do now is backup our performance and maintain the intensity and consistency and I am certain we can start to challenge - We should beat the Wallabies easy at home but the return AB game wont be so easy as they will of learnt as much about us from that last encounter.

As I said in an earlier post we do need some luck to come our way and maybe its not to far away