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FORUM / RUGBY /  Allister Coetzee - Should he stay or should he go?

Allister Coetzee - Should he stay or should he go?

Started by Denny11 REPLIES275 VIEWS· 28 Jan 2017, 13:23
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DennyCaptain12,893 posts
28 Jan 2017, 13:23
#1
28 Jan 2017, 13:23#1

Johannesburg - The South African Rugby Union have had a tough and extremely complicated decision to make: To retain Springbok coach Allister Coetzee or sack him after a poor 2016 season.

It now appears, however, that Coetzee will stay on at least for the June home series against France, after which a decision on his continued involvement will be taken.

Jacques van der Westhuyzen looks at the pros and cons of keeping Coetzee in the job.

Pros:

It’s the right thing to do: 

With government pushing for greater representation - and rightly so - it’s massively important to have a black coach, for Saru’s sake and for the good of all of South Africa.

Coetzee’s had domestic success with provincial teams and he was a World Cup winner in 2007 so it’s not as if he’s become a poor coach overnight; rather he possibly didn’t get a fair crack at things last year after being appointed as late as he was.

Also, it didn’t help him that some of his assistants weren’t up to scratch.

He knows what’s in store:

There is no doubt coaching the Springboks is one of the toughest jobs in world sport, but after four years with Jake White and having gone through what he did in 2016, Coetzee knows what to expect and possibly what to do to turn things around.

He would’ve learned a massive amount in 2016 about himself as coach and selector, Test rugby and his players - that is who’s up to it and who isn’t. Keeping him in the job at least means the Boks aren’t starting from scratch; well, not quite. And he’ll be desperate to turn things around.

It can only get better:

Let’s be honest, the Boks will surely not be as bad this year as they were in 2016. So, the only way is up and if it’s not Coetzee at the helm, then who else is there to coach the side?

Not many will want the job with all the prescriptions that go with it and the pressures involved, Coetzee has also invested in certain young players and he’ll hope they come good this year having gone through the rigours of 2016 - and he’s likely to have more fit men to pick from this year. There’s a new core and they’ll be better off for it this year, with Coetzee leading them.

Cons

Results:

We simply cannot get away from the fact that the Boks under Coetzee in 2016 were diabolical. They won just four Tests out of 12 and also lost to the Barbarians.

There were embarrassing defeats, against Ireland, Argentina and Italy and they took beatings from the All Blacks, among others.

One can say without hesitation the Boks took several steps backwards in 2016, didn’t look like a side that knew what it was doing half the time and Coetzee simply couldn’t shake off the conservative tag that has been pinned on him since his days coaching in the Western Cape.

Selections:

More than once last year, Coetzee’s selections were questioned. Firstly, he picked a captain, Adriaan Strauss, he supposedly knew would be hanging up his boots at year’s end, and then when Strauss failed to fire, he wasn’t prepared to change him, for a new leader and hooker, be it Bongi Mbonambi or Malcolm Marx.

There was never certainty around the props and loose-forwards, while the centres he picked most of the time played on reputation rather than form. A player like Willie le Roux was axed and then recalled and it seemed Coetzee was never sure about his choices.

Progress:

One has to ask what Saru think will be different by keeping Coetzee on for another year or series. Is the national team actually going to show progress and development - improvement, if you like - in 2017 with the same coach and major decision-maker in charge? What is going to be different?

He will, after all, largely pick the same players - or not? And is his game-plan going to change to be more dynamic and attack-minded? And having backed certain assistants in 2016, what’s to say they will be better off a year on?

The reality is the Boks showed no signs of being a world force last year and there’s no indication anything will be different in 2017.

The Saturday Star

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
28 Jan 2017, 14:14
#2
28 Jan 2017, 14:14#2
 So much bull in this article.
One example is that it claims he didn't have a fair crack at it since he was appointed late. Well  after having the team for most of the year he went and lost to Italy and a poor Welsh team. 
The list of nonsense we continues throughout the article. 
Namely also that it's good for all of SA if the boks have a black coach. In other words it is good for all of the country if we keep an incompetent person in a job simply on the basis of his skin color. Sorry but doesn't our Constitution prescribe against all forms of discrimination? In other words it's good for all of the country if we actively discriminate against a minority and thus contravene the supreme law of the land. 
Oh wait their is a limitation on that clause of the Constitution. Namely that only "unfair discrimination" is unlawful into a river filled with crocodiles and AIDS.
Thus as long as we say that we do x y and z because apartheid existed then we convert just about any unlawful act into a lawful one. 
Fu.k Stuck and Coetzee. I hope a goat eats their balls while they sleep. But most of all I hope our wonderful sports minister drives his ill-gotten Range Rover off a bloody cliff.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
28 Jan 2017, 14:20
#3
28 Jan 2017, 14:20#3
 The article lines in fact two points for Coetze to go, points that were made some time ago in a thread titled "Coetze must go"

Starting from the bottom,, the article admits rightly that SA rugby is not a force to reckon with, that SA play loser rugby. This point is meant as a point for sacking Coetze.

Given that SA plays loser rugby, SA is in a situation shared by many other rugby countries: how to get people to support a team playing loser rugby.

The article first point is about one means to achieve the result: representatity. One can support a team that is representative.

Except that this representatity is artificial in SA case. One point commonly made on this board is all non white players are boosted. SA has not yet managed to train one single non white player who could play for SA without being a quota player. A comparison to England shows the abyss: with a much narrower base, England has managed to train non white players who are not boosted.

There is no pro in the article: Coetze must go. His presence is one way excellent men use to keep rugby going in SA when rugby must be terminated.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Jan 2017, 16:20
#4
28 Jan 2017, 16:20#4
 Plum anybody suggesting Coetzee should stay on is obviously a racist anc stooge.One has to wonder how incredibly dense dense denise is to post something like this. Bwhahahahhaahahaha

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Jan 2017, 19:07
#5
28 Jan 2017, 19:07#5
 GO...ASAP@
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jan 2017, 20:39
#6
28 Jan 2017, 20:39#6
 The above article is BS in capital letters.   First of all it starts with the 2007 WC - where Coetzee ws supposed to be the backline coach.   He was so useless that White had to appoint Edie Jones to deal with backline usage and performance.   No credit for Coetzee there.
In the case of the WP=Stormers their performances over the past four years with Coetzee as coach was not successful - they were known more for their inability to score tries.   Bad news that record and playing style the Springboks produced this year was a replica of what the provincial franchise produced in that period.  
Clueless will never succeed as a coach.   The sooner he goes the better.

   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jan 2017, 20:39
#7
28 Jan 2017, 20:39#7
 The above article is BS in capital letters.   First of all it starts with the 2007 WC - where Coetzee ws supposed to be the backline coach.   He was so useless that White had to appoint Edie Jones to deal with backline usage and performance.   No credit for Coetzee there.
In the case of the WP=Stormers their performances over the past four years with Coetzee as coach was not successful - they were known more for their inability to score tries.   Bad news that record and playing style the Springboks produced this year was a replica of what the provincial franchise produced in that period.  
Clueless will never succeed as a coach.   The sooner he goes the better.

   
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
28 Jan 2017, 21:30
#8
28 Jan 2017, 21:30#8
 Have to stop posting from my phone. The autocorrect really hates me.
I promise that I do know the difference between "their" and "there".
Anyway, yes this article is so full of nonsense that it's barely worth discussing. I think Traditionalist may have penned it.
One can see how crap like this comes about though. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jan 2017, 21:41
#9
28 Jan 2017, 21:41#9
 'It's the right thing to do'.....since when do people get to keep jobs when they so obviously are failing. There is no good reason for not getting the Boks a leader as coach. If not, our WC coach will inherit one of Coetzee's fake excuses...being appointed too late.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
28 Jan 2017, 21:53
#10
28 Jan 2017, 21:53#10
The corruption and incompetence of SARU and the sports minister ensured that Coetzee was a late appointment, who did not get to choose his coaching team. 
However, Coetzee is like the bus driver. If he has been with them 1 week or 10 years, he is not going to improve the performance on the pitch. 
If he could have chosen his own defence coach, backline coach and forwards coach, he might be better of now than where he was. He is a team manager, not a coach.
As the year went on the team got worse and worse. The backline was a joke that changed each week, and ball retention at the rucks was pathetic- which partially was due to no game plan- where players isolated themselves
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Jan 2017, 11:54
#11
29 Jan 2017, 11:54#11
  
Status: Rugby Legend 
P osts: 5998RE: Allister Coetzee - Should he stay or should he go?
January 28, 2017, 21:53:22

The corruption and incompetence of SARU and the sports minister ensured that Coetzee was a late appointment, who did not get to choose his coaching team. 
However, Coetzee is like the bus driver. If he has been with them 1 week or 10 years, he is not going to improve the performance on the pitch. 
If he could have chosen his own defence coach, backline coach and forwards coach, he might be better of now than where he was. He is a team manager, not a coach.
As the year went on the team got worse and worse. The backline was a joke that changed each week, and ball retention at the rucks was pathetic- which partially was due to no game plan- where players isolated themselves
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Jan 2017, 11:54
#12
29 Jan 2017, 11:54#12
 Spot on Shark.
— END OF THREAD —

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