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FORUM / RUGBY /  Another Shocker by the Fool - Meyer

Another Shocker by the Fool - Meyer

Started by clevermike31 REPLIES742 VIEWS· 23 Sept 2015, 11:13
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Sept 2015, 11:13
#1
23 Sept 2015, 11:13#1
This is another shocker  \by the bloody fool Springbok coach:-
15   Willie le Roux14   JP Pietersen13   Jean de Villiers (c)12   Damian de Allende11   Bryan Habana10   Handre Pollard 9    Fourie du Preez 8    Duane Vermeulen 7   Schalk Burger 6   Francois Louw
 5   Victor Matfield 4   Eben Etzebeth 3   Jannie du Plessis 2   Adriaan Strauss 1   Tendai Mtawarira
16   Schak Brits17   Trevor Nyakane18   Frans Malherbe19   Lood de Jager20   Siya Kolisi21   Ruan Pienaar22   Pat Lambie23   Jesse Kriel
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Sept 2015, 11:17
#2
23 Sept 2015, 11:17#2
 Not too bad Mike, although I think Jean should have rather been on the bench...Maybe Victor as well. Is Bissie injured?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Sept 2015, 11:29
#3
23 Sept 2015, 11:29#3
 Meyer made a drastic slip-up in dealing with the team.  he spoke about his friendship with De Villiers and Matfield - so we must accept that it is a jobs-for-pals selection.
Now lets look at the team itself:-
JP Pietersen has been slow and pathetically poor in Super 15 during the past season and the tests he played for the Springboks during the past year.
Meyer said last week that he does not think De Villiers is a 12 - not a 13.  Suddenly he changed his tune and now De Villiers is at 13 - where he always was weak.

Fourie du Preez is part of the lottery system in squad and team selection introduced by Meyer as an selection criterium.  He did come on last week and was better than Pienaar, but anybody - including my dead granny would have been better.  I have a suspicion he is going to fail - like Pienaar did last Saturday
Louw is a the lowest work rate loosie ever after the traditional loafer Alberts - so what is going to happen with that free-loader as a loosie?
Meyer said the Samoans are a tough lot to deal with - yet he selects the weakest Tight 5 lock in SA and demotes the only forward showing anything last week to the bench - all because he is a pal of Matfield.  This is a bad joke on the Springbok team by the useless coach.
Jannie and Beast played for 15 minutes last week and then went AWOL - but they are still in like flint.
If this was not so serious - it would have been one of the biggest jokes this year.
Bismarck and Coenie was punished for the fiasco last week - the other dolts got off scot free.
 
      
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Sept 2015, 12:08
#4
23 Sept 2015, 12:08#4
 Related article Link Vermeulen is starting although he is coming back from a neck injury. It would have been better if he had been used against Japan. The game against Samoa will be very physical. Boks need him desperately so they are chucking him in as a starter. 
Back line has some capacity to score points - wee Willie should add spark but his 50/50 plays will have to come off or else he will be a liability. Hope the defense holds up. Kreil on the bench so if the Samoans tire he will have an impact late in the game.

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
23 Sept 2015, 12:24
#5
23 Sept 2015, 12:24#5
    This is not going to work.
As expected JdV and Matfield are going to start again. Is very simple, they are not fit to test level so they weaken the team, Matfield the tight5 and the forward pack itself and JdV the backline. Their leadership abilities, if they have some coz last saturday they showed so many flaws, get diluted in their lack of fitness.

There are more question marks over this team,..... to bench the only player who kept a stiff upper lip, De Jager, doesn't seem to be the best way,....... these are desperate times for the team but seems risky to start against the phisycal Samoa to start a player coming from a long neck injury and surgery,........ FdP is a complete puzzle, though the only posible solution atm,......  there's no real openside and Bismark is not playing, so who's going to lead and fight for the breakdowns? Jannie? Vermeulen is the only forward with breakdown abilities but with his recent neck injury it doesn't seem the most apropiate task for him,..... still too many passengers, JP, Louw,.....
doesn't look any good for the boks, many probabilities to lose IMO...... and this would mean to take the way home the first week
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
23 Sept 2015, 12:28
#6
23 Sept 2015, 12:28#6
 Can any of you SA bloggers explain to me why Kriel and De Allende are not the starting centre combo. They teared the abs to pieces a few months ago, it defies logic. Lord, you have so much depth, that team is no where near where I would go. It is just your selection policies that are holding you back, that's it.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Sept 2015, 14:21
#7
23 Sept 2015, 14:21#7
Because they cant tackle and have lost two tests (oz and Japan)  in the last move missing tackles....does that help? 
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
23 Sept 2015, 14:59
#8
23 Sept 2015, 14:59#8
I'm not the slightest surprised. At least Meyer is loyal, he will stick with his faithfuls through anything. If the Springboks fail to impress and more importantly the has beens, he better head to Syria.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Sept 2015, 15:08
#9
23 Sept 2015, 15:08#9
So what would you have done....played Kriel who got smashed by the Japanese against the most physical backline in rugby?  Played Stephanie who meandered around like a spare part watching the ball on the ground being pilfered rather than getting down and competing?
The only real choice was Victor  or Lood to start. But Lomp and Eben  typically play 60 minutes, so if Victor subs on at 60 minutes....one of the two has to play 80 minutes in a very physical game. Victor has no problem going 80 so the balance is far better each young  lock playing 40.
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
23 Sept 2015, 15:13
#10
23 Sept 2015, 15:13#10
Victoria can play 80 because he cannot impose himself physically.  
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
23 Sept 2015, 15:43
#11
23 Sept 2015, 15:43#11
Meyer just pushed all his chips to the middle of the table. 
He's not bluffing though - holding a full house 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Sept 2015, 15:50
#12
23 Sept 2015, 15:50#12
Low Life 
Victor is KAK - he has no problem in lasting 80 minutes because he does not do his work as a lock in the Tight 5 and stands around in the backline.  
For Meyer to admit that he picks players because of being his friends is highly unethical. Naledi Victoria is in the squad because of that friendship - not because he deserves to be in the squad.  
Loyalty does not win tests - performance does.  Meyer better start praying virtually continuously that there is not another disaster in the offing.   Another loss and we are out of the WC in the pool stages.  Not that it would surprise me at all - the squad Meyer selected is the worst one any coach has ever selected to represent SA in any WC tournament so prayers will the only answer be - the duds in the squad will not contribute to performance in games.
Please explain that the best player of the SA team ag ainst Japan  is benched to accommodate the physically weakest lock in the competition.     
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Sept 2015, 15:51
#13
23 Sept 2015, 15:51#13
 4 duces beats a full house, ask Japan!
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Sept 2015, 16:21
#14
23 Sept 2015, 16:21#14
THE IRISH TIMES.

Gordon D’Arcy: Surviving at centre not easy – just ask Kriel

 "Centre as an art form begins with defence. Not tackling, defending. Japan’s Ayumu Goromaru running through the Springbok defence unharmed was a replica of Brian’s try against Cardiff in 2012 that I mentioned last week. Exact same move. If nothing else Eddie Jones and Joe Schmidt are eternal students of the game.

Jesse Kriel, the young South Africa 13, made two of the worst reads a centre can make during that sequence and for the winning Japanese try.

Both times Kriel broke a golden rule of defending in midfield: stay relevant.

 

 Rob Kearney scores against the All Blacks: “It’s very hard to find a weakness but they are beatable. Ireland players know this now.” Photograph: Dan Sheridan/InphoGordon D’Arcy: When offload doesn’t come naturally, don’t use it

It’s no fun having to tackle someone like Mathieu Bastareaud if he gets a 10-yard run on you. Photograph: Billy Stickland/InphoGordon D’Arcy: New breed will define World Cup

Follow all the Rugby World Cup action

A centre must develop spacial awareness to survive in Test rugby. If you get too close to an attacker, you end up following him into the space and it’s almost impossible to get back out. It’s about hovering two or three yards outside the tackle area so if he doesn’t get the ball you push off to the next guy.

If you dive into that hole and don’t make a clean tackle you disappear from view and it looks like someone else has missed a tackle. Your team-mates know who is to blame. So does your coach.

So, probably, did Eddie Jones. Kriel is 21 and a genuine talent who has played a lot of rugby at fullback or wing. It showed.

Japan flooded the space Kriel should have been holding and he took the bait. Then he emptied their outhalf late to leave a gaping hole for their blindside winger to run into. That might look like a worthwhile exercise to the untrained eye but rugby players know what he did.

For Japan’s winning try he was handed off by Al Mafi as punishment for invading the space too early. That forced the covering Springbok defender to go towards Mafi and leave JP Pieterson with a two-on-one scenario.

High stakes

High pressure, high stakes, two bad decisions by a young outside centre and South Africa lose the game.

Some people are good tacklers. You can pick them out in a sea of eight-year-olds on a Saturday morning. They know when to drop, when to power in, how to instinctively generate that surge through their second foot. Most players tackle and plant their foot without taking another crucial step in. Those players almost always lose the contact.

I was a decent tackler but had to become an international standard defender. Usually it’s a prerequisite for a good defender to be a good tackler but the great one’s might only make three or four primary hits in a game. It’s about being in the right place at the right time.

Jared Payne instinctively gets this. Conrad Smith and Brian are the masters of outside centre play – it’s their longevity and brilliance in defence that made them great players as much as the magic they conjured up passing out of contact or breaching defences.

Smith’s body shape in the defensive line is fantastic. His ability to move when crouched really, really low, laterally, forward or backwards means he rarely misses a tackle.

Now, there are times when the space around an attacker must be filled at all cost. See Luke Fitzgerald’s attempted intercept last Saturday that ensured Canada’s try just before half-time was disallowed.

Jamie and Johnny stopped Aaron Carpenter inches shy of the line but scrumhalf Gordon McRorie spotted the overlap and flung it wide. Luke made a brilliant decision going for the ball and not the man as he forced Nathan Hirayama’s forward pass. If Luke had sat off, it would have been catch, pass, try.

His performance in general showed how much he has grown as a rugby player. He’s older now and more attuned to rugby so it’s not just about getting the ball and trusting his natural talent. He looked really sharp, his decision-making with ball-in-hand and, more importantly, his accurate execution was quality.

It was probably his best game in a green shirt and it was at inside centre. Does that change things for Italy and France? Probably not.

Dave Kearney did enough to keep 14 so it’s between Luke or Keith Earls for the left wing but Robbie must perform now against Romania or Italy.

It’s the ideal situation really.

I also think Payne has become the second most important player in Ireland’s backline, possibly even the team. A fullback by nature, he has become a reliable Test centre and that’s down to fundamental skills.

He does the right thing at the right time. Even the two kicks that didn’t work out, one off Johnny’s brilliant cross-field laser and chipping that ball into DTH van der Merwe’s hands for Canada’s try, were the right plays; it’s just his timing was off.

The outside centre channel gives you a split-second more than inside centre to decide to attack or pass. If you back yourself, the rewards are there if you execute well. At 12, it’s more a case of carrying in strong traffic without much time to react.

I know both roles well. I was coasting along as a winger until Gary Ella asked me to train at outside centre one morning in January 2004. It went well, so my first game wearing 13 was later that weekend against Sale at Edgeley Park in the European Cup.

Slow motion

Brian was injured. They had Jason Robinson attacking from their back field and I remember putting him down twice. They had beaten us the previous week at Lansdowne Road but we won 23-16 and I just loved it.

It felt like everything was happening in slow-motion. Off our first attacks I saw their winger Mark Cueto was sitting off a fraction so I demanded the ball and galloped into the space. I created Brendan Burke’s try and cut up the Sale midfield a few times. It was a particularly special night and Eddie O’Sullivan was watching.

I stayed there against Cardiff the next week and in Biarritz before Eddie picked me alongside Kevin Maggs for the Six Nations opener in Paris. Up against Yannick Jauzion and Damien Traille. A huge and brilliant centre pairing, my intent as soon as the team was announced was to force Jauzion into marking me and not the other way round.

Eddie was a believer by then. Having left me out of the World Cup squad six months previously, his words of advice were simple: if it’s on, go for it.

He was very protective of me back then, so no media. He probably still saw me as a potential liability but he backed me, aged 23. Better late than never.

It was my sixth cap, five years after the first against Romania at the 1999 World Cup. It was also my Six Nations debut. Traille and Jauzion combined for a nice try. So did myself and Tyrone Howe; a rare offload in a 17-year career but we were 18 points down. I used to look at Jauzion and think if I was his size I’d have so much fun playing rugby. He was all class, made it look so easy. I always enjoyed going up against him. Ma’a Nonu was like tackling a rhinoceros but Yannick was like trying to grab a deer. He was as graceful as he was powerful.

The toughest centres to defend? Mathieu Bastareaud and Nonu. There wasn’t a game I played against Bastareaud when he didn’t swat me aside. Nobody remembers the six clean hits I made. You just can’t be left alone on him. In Paris in 2013 I chopped him perfectly in the first minute. The second charge was not so great but we survived.

Holds the space

Bastareaud is actually a good defender. Many teams have targeted him but he holds the space so well that they end up running into him. And there is a lot of him.

I was always excited about testing myself against these players. I refused to let myself be outclassed by my peers, They were the best so I knew if I could deliver against them I could call myself a rugby player. I held my own about 90 percent of the time.

My career at 13 was shortlived. Two weeks after Paris, Brian was fit for Wales in Dublin. I presumed I would be gone but Eddie dropped Maggsy. And that’s how I became a 12 for the first time in my life.

Inside and outside centre are vastly different positions. Twelve is a slot with tighter space and less time on the ball, plus you invariably running into a seven. At 13, you have more space and can run at the outside shoulder.

Two different jobs that make up the one whole, but only if the partnership does their individual jobs correctly. Both players must be selfless, especially in defence.

A lot the time I had to fight to get into a good defensive position to help Brian. The easiest thing is to drop under and head for the corner but if you actually fight to get up field and stay attached to your 13, it makes his job so much easier. It makes for a solid shape too. If the attacker does step back inside, you can accelerate into contact.

I’ve mentioned all the monstrous modern centres bashing over the gainline but Matt Giteau outshines them all.

Smaller and lighter than me, he’s not only highly skilled but at 32 still possesses genuine, darting pace. A ballsy defender, great distributor and boasting a world-class kicking game, he is the definition of what the southern hemisphere rugby people term a second-five-eight.

Robbie Henshaw is getting there. The Irish gameplan is very clean.

Extracting information

Other teams go through the phases before seeking their game-breakers, their power men. We combine in twos and threes to create opportunities. For Connacht, Robbie is one of those power men, so his role for Ireland is almost the opposite. But he gets it. He was constantly extracting information from myself and Brian these past two years.

The Canadian defence was soft last Saturday. Hence the multitude of loop plays. I can’t see us doing that against Italy or France – it was a fit-for-purpose tactic to beat Canada. Van der Merwe shot up a few times but the rest of them stood off.

Johnny’s try came after running six or seven loop plays before Seán O’Brien got the ball. The defence sat off so Seánie went back inside to Johnny, who headed for the corner. The move was to play another loop but two good rugby players saw what was on.

The warm-ups weren’t about the opposition – it was about preparation for the World Cup. But in this first game I could see the intent and work that has been done. Dave Kearney’s try was straight off the training ground.

My only concern was on turnover ball when we didn’t really take full advantage. That was down to execution but it’s a work in progress.

What I liked most were the late tries. A real foot-on-the-throat attitude. It’s hard not to switch off, but Seán Cronin and Ian Madigan were never going to let that happen. The fact that Luke and Jared combined seamlessly together was important. Now we have that option. We also know Luke or Keith can play 13. Darren Cave will get his chance against Romania.

I do feel for Jesse Kriel. The ramifications of missing your read at outside centre are more punishing than anywhere else on the field. He now knows just how unforgiving life as an international centre can be."

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
23 Sept 2015, 19:29
#15
23 Sept 2015, 19:29#15
Another wager for me....unfortunately not for the Proteas.
But in my heart I hope I lose.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
23 Sept 2015, 19:41
#16
23 Sept 2015, 19:41#16
 Rather Jean and Kriel than Damian and Jean. Jean cannot play 13 and Damian cannot play 12. Damian is the worst defensive centre of the modern era. Tragic.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
23 Sept 2015, 20:06
#17
23 Sept 2015, 20:06#17
Interesting stuff from D'Arcy, thanks Draad.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Sept 2015, 20:17
#18
23 Sept 2015, 20:17#18
  Desewrt Disaster
There are two much worse defensive centers in SA at present - Frans Steyn and Juan de Jongh.   That has been proved time and again in games over the past three years,   Tragic.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
23 Sept 2015, 21:34
#19
23 Sept 2015, 21:34#19
Squad is looking better, not sure Coenie will earn another cap at this world cup after his poor performance coming off the bench.
Just need to get rid of Victor and Jean. Really disappointed not see the like of Reinach or Faf in the team. Both players ask questions around the ruck and really good pace. I don't see any of our 3 scrummies making a break for it and scoring. 
I don't think you can blame Jessie Kriel for one of the tries. Jean clear moved out of his space to create a gap in his channel. He is actually the worst defender.
If they wanted room for Jean in the team then they should have just played on the wing. JP just doesn't cut it at the moment.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Sept 2015, 22:11
#20
23 Sept 2015, 22:11#20
 Jean is a great. The best position in ghe team would be 14 as a starter or on the bench. Reminds me of a non starting captain like Claasen. He volenteered to be relegated to the bench. Meyer and the rest of the team(except Bismarck, if the rumors are true) would have none of it. Kriel is not too considerable( was supposed to be comfortable ?) at 13 yet. This team are going to walk through fire, brimstone and lava for Jean, Heineke and for the jersey. Will it be enough to make it to the play-offs, who knows? If they do however, I'm glad I'm not supporting the teams that does. Jean is a fighter and a gentleman. Give him the respect he deserves! Meyer and the rest of the team may be wrong about him and a few other things, but the constant bile by the rest of the country is not helping one little bit either. If you can't do that FCK the hell OFF!

GO BOKKE!
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
23 Sept 2015, 22:54
#21
23 Sept 2015, 22:54#21
 So much is said by so many people who regard themself as experts but have never coached and many have not even played at a level higher than schoolboy.
From where I sit it seems as if Meyer is on his own mission - he never listened to the advice given to him.  But, there are stories of the players not doing what he instructed.
I would rather lose against Japan than lose the semi- or final playoff. Maybe the Bokke will peak at the correct time and then, will the experts say they are sorry if the Bokke win?  No I do not think so.  Yes, we are cross, we are disappointed, we are sad but swearing at the coach and dissing players will not make it better.
At least Thor Vermeulen is back and some of the ill disciplined players are not in the team.
Go Bokke
Salaam!
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
23 Sept 2015, 22:59
#22
23 Sept 2015, 22:59#22
 Draad, good read dankie .
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
23 Sept 2015, 23:13
#23
23 Sept 2015, 23:13#23
 Draad.......they are going to have to face one of the most physical teams in world rugby first this Saturday.
Lets see what they can deliver.I would love to see them win the WC but I am also a realist.
Jammer......
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Sept 2015, 23:20
#24
23 Sept 2015, 23:20#24
 True Arthur, I'm  concerned as well, but the cards have been dealt and the chips will fall where they will...it's time for getting behind the team regardless and to stop bitching or willing them to lose, just to be vindicated in a silly internet argument....GO BOKKE!!!!!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Sept 2015, 01:00
#25
24 Sept 2015, 01:00#25
Kriel got smashed did he......Moffie not only are you a racist pig, you are a fucking liar. Smashed......what a fucking pathetic lie. 
Let me guess we wont see Hooper play for Oz again after he was smashed to his arse by a Fijian in a tackle attempt.....is that how it works you ignorant prick.
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
24 Sept 2015, 03:14
#26
24 Sept 2015, 03:14#26
 Who cares Kriel got smashed, he is young he well learn. But he offers more to me then Jean does at present.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
24 Sept 2015, 06:50
#27
24 Sept 2015, 06:50#27
 
The only reason Kriel vanished is because he had De Villiers on his inside. Pretty much obvious. Jean has never been able to get his outside man into space.

He may be a fighter and a gentleman but that's not a valid reason for selection. He isn't on form and shouldn't be on the park.

Pieter Steff played out of position. Duh!!! He should either be starting at lock or be on the bench as cover.

Matfield should have been dropped altogether. Simply useless.

Vermeulen should have been brought back from the bench with Burger shifting to 6 ...

Meyer knows his head's on the block and is quite prepared to sacrifice Duane in an attempt to save it.

The man has no shame.

He drops Lambie for Pollard making it clear that Pollard is the play maker. Why couldn't he had afforded Lambie the same courtesy?

The man has no shame!

Coenie should never have been there to begin with.

What Beast and Jannie are doing there the fcuk alone knows.

Go Samoaaaaaa!!!


 
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
24 Sept 2015, 08:42
#28
24 Sept 2015, 08:42#28
 CC says ;

Go Samoaaaaaa!!!


Didn't someone here call you a backstabber ??
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
24 Sept 2015, 09:18
#29
24 Sept 2015, 09:18#29
 
Backstabber??

Not sure!! Maybe!!

I've been called a lot of things.

If you wanna say something to me, blob ... go ahead ... don't cower in the corner!!

Shall I say it again ... just in case you're a little unsure ... ???

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMOAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Happy now??

I would love it if Zuma's Goats exit the WC without getting into the play offs. It would make my day.

Japan are a credit to there country. Georgia are a credit to their country.

The Bokke?? How about the Bokke, blob?

Are they a credit to their country or an embarrassment?

Gooooo Samoaaaaaaa!!!




BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
24 Sept 2015, 09:32
#30
24 Sept 2015, 09:32#30
Pasop, there's a sh! tload of bad karma coming your way .
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
24 Sept 2015, 09:37
#31
24 Sept 2015, 09:37#31
 
Well blob ... I checked on my chickens this morning and could have sworn I heard them muttering something under their breath.

When I stepped a little closer to listen  ... this is what I heard.

Gooooooooooo Saaaaaamooaaa!!!

Seems my chickens and I are in sync.



GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
24 Sept 2015, 12:59
#32
24 Sept 2015, 12:59#32
HM's Lament


Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far away.
Now it looks as though they're here to stay.
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

Suddenly I'm not half the man I used to be.
There's a shadow hanging over me.
Oh, yesterday came suddenly.

Why we had to lose, I don't know, they wouldn't play.
I did something wrong, now I long for yesterday.

Yesterday rugby was such an easy game to play.
Now I need a place to hide away.
Oh, I believe in yesterday.



Mm mm mm mm mm mm mm  
— END OF THREAD —

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