I have seen such little of Arno Botha, but it is obvious that he is a top player that should be starting for the Bulls- or at least getting 30 minutes as the bare minimum per match.
The Bulls lost a quality looseforward last year, forgot his name to the Irish. Fool Ludecke was also not playing him, instead he persisted with both of the donkey Potgieters.
@sharbok,
thats cj strander ur thinking of.
i kind of thought that maybe arno was not 100% hence his limited game time, but theres been no evidence to suggest that.
in stranders case, IMO it was the fact that he announced he was signing up with munster (i think???) which was the main contributor to him starting on the bench,
he was a regular in my team on foxsport last year & i was forced to get rid of him cos ludeke was not professional enough to clearly pick one of the best looseforwards in the country.
i wouldnt be surprised if arno botha was to go else where, IMO he would be a fantastic recruit for the cheetahs.
Sharkbok
I firmly believe Ludeke has had a brain implosion and is suffering from that dreaded disease called STUPIDITUS.
Here we have by far the best loosie in the Bulls team constantly on the bench. We have seen all this before - problem is the Bulls prefer donkey-brains beforeanything else. Thinking players like Stander and Botha - are unacceptable to them.
I agree the Cheetahs would be a better proposition for him - he can play at 8 there. Even the Stormers may e better - but then he would run into another coach suffering from Stupiditus.
Wrong Sas, CJ Stander was quoted as saying the reason he signed with the Irish was because he was disillusioned with spending much of his time on the bench. Once he signed, Ludeke then used him even less.
Ludeke is a complete idiot for treating CJ as he did and he appears to not have learnt his lesson given his current treatment of Botha.
Meyer was equally stupid for not giving CJ a Bok cap last year. If he had been savy enough, he would have secured CJ's services moving forward, safe in the knowledge that he could play his rugby in Ireland, but always be available for the Boks. We lost a star there and lets hope by some miracle he returns.
@saffex,
something dosent add up bro, cos being the fanatsy nerd that i am, i have saved in the drafts section a spreadsheet of cj standers spXV figures in 2012, he & marcel coetzee were always in my fanatsy teams last year when ever they were starting, so i followed thier spXV careers through a microscope.
the point is, cj stander was on the bench for the bulls first two games of the season in 2011, but he started every single match from the bulls 3rd game onwards.
on june the 20th cj stander announced he was leaving at the end of the spXV season to go play for munster. which was right in the middle of the june test sereis.
the last match the bulls played was on the 2nd of june against the stormers which coincedently is the last time that stander started a match for the bulls.
when the teams resumed after the june test series and after cj stander revelaed his future, he then found himself on the bench.
i never once heard anything remotely close to what u said about cjs reasons for leaving hence why i said in my post it was my opinon that stander was benched because of his future munster plans.
however, if what u said is true, then my value of cj stander has definately gone plummeted. i mean he starts two games of the bench in his debut season before starting every single match after that & he cites being benched all the time as the main reason why he left??? o_O
thats quite a prick of a thing for cj to say consdiering the evidence to the contrary.
I dont recall where I read the article but it stressed that the financial reward was not the reason he left and that it was along the lines of ......'.However, it may be that the Bulls' preference for their own loose trio of Pierre Spies, Dewald Potgieter and Deon Stegmann, coupled with the arrival of Jacques Potgieter and the up-and-coming former SA under-20 captain Arno Botha, may have something to do with the decision.'
@saffex,
i dont doubt for a sceond that u read it, but i do find cjs reasons rather divaish. i mean his debut year in spXV he started on the bench for the bulls first two games and then started every match after that??? not too many young guns kick of their careers like that.
i wouldnt be surprised if cj stander made all that stuff up about being benched being the reason to go, cos the reports were he got a real massive pay packet to sign with munster and im not surprised cos u only had to watch his games in the spXV to know he was something special.
what i dont think cj counted on was the public backlash for him leaving, could be that all got to him and under that duress he said being benched was the reason he was leaving. after all he could have signed with any SA club given that his contract was up, or even negotiated more starting time clauses, somehting to that effect which on the back of his 2012 perofrmance wouldnt have been hard to negotiate.
but its done and dusted now and SA really lost a player with massive potential, but just like NZ, when one door closes another one opens, such is the depth of both our nations.
Agreed, big loss and he could have played for any side in SA if game time with the Bulls was an issue. I am very disappointed he has turned his back on SA and it is pretty sickening listening to him on video on the Munster site talking about playing for Ireland one day. What a wanker I say
saSUE one cant lose top players and expect to be a top side. CJ going was a big blow.
However the problem remains. How does one counter the NH offers? Bryan Habana will earn R500,000 a month!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jaque Fourie gets R20 million for two yers work in Japan and ou Bekker is off like a shot to go there as well (he will be quite a curiosity there).
Given the risk of injuries curtailing your career - make hay while the sun shines. If Stander does play for Ireland which is very likely he will be a rich man by the time he finishes. Its actually astonishing more top players dont go.
Of course I have to also add playing for the bulle and living in Pretoria cant have been an attractive option!
No some serious sponsorhip needs to be found.
Beeno, I heard that you were loaded, why not sponsor a few players here in Cape Town for us. :)
Ek I was thining of it as I would love to be a rugby philantopist and dole it out to the Stormers but given the absence of assets realised it was simply a fantasy rugby notion of rootwitian proportions.
I think Warren Buffet might have a problem stopping the exodus. These NH twits need to be dealt with by SARFU who must try and negoitiate and encourage them to use their own players no matter how putrid they are. Unforunately this will not have occured to them and these boneheads probably have no idea that players are leaving en masse and that it impacts negatively on our prospects.
The main objectives of these oaks is to jockey fo positions on the gravy train - their gravy train prospects are all that excercises their "mind" Ek. Bwhahahahahahahaha
I am afraid money is and remains an issue - especially for players attracted to play in Japan and France. However, in the Japan case the money is not the only attraction. The players play far fewer games per year than what they require to play in SA. And the payment is very, very generous especially if the exchange rate is borne in mind. By the way I believe that Fourie in fact is being paid $2 000 000 per year and his contract is for two years - so he is laughing all the way to the bank. I would be surprised if Bekker's contract is not for something similar.
The problem with the Japan contracts is that they comply with the IRB rules - but there is one very complicated problem. They can play international rugby - but the penalty clause in the case of an injury whilst playing intrnational rugby is so heavy - that the players themselves decide not to be available for international duty. That way the IRB rules are in effect being nullified by the clubs without in fact breaking the rules.
Players like Bekker and Habana have at most three years left in their playing career and they must now make th money that will cover them for the rest of their lifetime. In fact I regard it as their pension fund for the future. They can get othr jobs - but not on the income level whatthey are accustomed too - so who can blame them for taking up foreign contracts.
I really am more worried about theyounger players leaving. The NH and Japan clubs have agaents here who are continuously hunting for talent. They see promising young players and they go for them as well. Look at the Ebersohn brothers and Elstadt for instance. The lure of playing for other countries - like Ireland in the case of Stander and Strauss in the case of Scotland is also a problem.
If I was Meyer I woud pick the endangered player to play off the bench once and keep them for falling into foreign hands by the lure of international selection. I would do that with people like Elstadt and Robert Ebersohn - obviously already prime targets of overseas agents. By doing that I think they remain as international players for the benefit of SA. Lets call it an insurance policy. Meyer can in fact do that against the weaker foreign teams in June in particular. Will he do it? I doubt it very much.
Please note that since they play at Under 20 for SA - Du Toit, Botha and Serfontein aret available for foreign selection.
What needs to happen is that these bloody NH sides need to introduce a cap on the number of foreign players they can sign up. I know there is talk of that in England and the French coach has bitched about the number of foreigners polluting their game and diluting the depth of players the French can draw on.
We cant compete on the salary stakes, but what SA rugby needs to pay attention to, is identifying young talent that they need to invest in and make sure these players are not lured away. Or if these kids do leave, then be aware of the fact, keep abreast of their performances and if they are up to it, select them as Boks.
If I was Bok coach, I would be well aware of the likes of Quinn Roux, CJ Stander and co and I'd be in regular contact with them encouraging them to compete for Bok positions. If we cant stop the youngsters leaving, then at least keep them in the frame for Bok selections.
@beeno1 aka storminged,
"saSUE one cant lose top players and expect to be a top side. CJ going was a big blow."
i was reffering to the Boks my bru, the bulls suffered a huge loss, but ludeke has proven that he some serious flaws in his coaching game.
the Boks on the other hand have more then enough talent comeing thorugh which IMO makes cj standers depature nothing more then a whisper.
@saffex,
thats a pretty crazy thing for cj stander to stay about wanting to play for ireland, especially as hes has no real connection to ireland.
i wonder why he dosent want to play for the Boks??? this is a worrying trend considering that timo sweil dosent want to play for SA either, o_O
this looks like a job for patrick jane and shrlock holmes, :o)
but seriously, whats the go??? O_o
Sas, who knows, he captained the Baby Boks and now talks of playing for Ireland - a wanker - if that is what he does, may he fall short is all I can say. Harsh but true - there will be no well wishes from me
