Assuming no injuries and no quotas pick a merit test day squad of 23

Beast (Playng very well), Marx and Malherbe (some doubts as to who is our best tighthead but he did okay on Saturday)

Eben, Snyman

Marco, Du Preez, Du Toit

That constitutes a powerful pack to make mince meat of the wee abs!

Backs

Faf and Pollard

Allende and Kriel (So far they are clearly the best combo)

Dyanti, Mpimpi (Nkosi) Le Roux.

Bench:

Kitshoff, Akkers and Louw.

Kolisi, Louw (Brink)

Van Zyl (Papier needs more experience) Willemse, AM

Not all players selected here have no competition and some calls are very close. Put up your own selection before objecting tomine oaks. Lets cut out the snarky oaks who sit on the sidelines and carp away in a most objectionable manner!

Kolisi was a passenger most of the game. He had some powerful carries, but they tended to be in space. He has no business wearing the captain's armband as he absolutely no presence on the field at all. I watched the game slowed down, so I missed absolutely nothing. He was nowhere. Am, Dyanti and Mpimpi are not quotas. Beast is not a quota. The two question marks are on Whitely and Kolisi. Malherbe was actually very good. His best test that I can recall, by far. Louw, Eben, Beast and Du Toit were the most prominent forwards by far. So much pay ran through them in some way. Our primary leads in PODs were Beast and Du Toit. I thought we'd have seen more Kolisi as he has good hands.

Obviously Beast etc are not quotas as my team, as stated, is a merit based team.

Kolisi might make a good impact player. He is not as poor as you make out.

Beeno

You are in most respects correct.

There are obviously an over-supply in Tight 5 players - with Etzebeth and the best other one De Jager still injured - together with Du Toit, Mostert and Snyman.at lock.

The problem remains with the loosies and that is due to the very real under-performance of Louw and Kolisi, as well as to a lesser extent Whiteley.   The latter is physically not competitive enough in all aspects of games.   There is another problem which raised its ugly head on Saturday,   Neither Louw or Whiteley made any contribution to line-out jumping where we cannot rely on the contributions by the locks only,   That is part of the reason why some line-outs - especially in the Argentine 22 misfired.  

We cannot proceed without a third line-out option and that is why I think either Mostert or Du Toit should be moved to play as a loosie.   Of those two Du Toit is by some distance the better player - but the question than remain as to which position will be more appropriate.   I am afraid that nothing will be done to deal with Kolisi as a loosie - he will remain.   There is one other issue and that is to use him as an opensider a\or blindsider.   I think he will do more damage as an opensider than as a blindsider,   

So lets get back to the loosie selections.   Despite the BS spread by some -  Louw was the sworst loosie by a huge distance.   To keep him in the mix in the longer term will definitely not be advisable,   Although claims are made to the contrary stats does indicate productivity in games and Louw's stats were shockingly poor.  Keeping him at the age of 32 - 33 next year - will be totally taking us back to the Meyer geriatrics of 2015 and our demise against Japan.   I would therefore -

*   retain Kolisi as a blindsider (not on merit - but as a result of politics beyond our control) :'

*   retain Van Staden as opensider and also look at players at  present not in contention to strengthen the position and there are a number of players to be looked at; and

*   replace Whiteley with the physically more competitive Du Toit at 8

I have no real problems with the backline.   I think there are question marks around the center pairing - but I do not mind getting back-ups in the form of Esterhuizen and Am.   Perhaps we should even look wider than that and also think of Serfontein.   What I do say is that Fat Fransie is a no-no.  He is as a rule atrociously poor in both defense and attacking play.

So your team seems to be in order - with adjustments to be made to the loosies.                         

I haven't counted the lineouts, or the different formations used, but I did notice a strong tendency towards a 4 man lineout. We had enough variety, Argentina kept throwing to the middle jumper with the grey scrumcap. I'll post all the details about the lineouts later in the week if anyone is interested.

Does a third lineout option really compensate for the work Louw brings? I really do think thinks so. Louw was one the three hardest working players. His ruck cleans etc were very good. I'm not a fan of Kolisi, but he isn't entirely incapable. Whitely had his moments too. Alot those ruck cleans were by Louw and Whitely. Whitely supported alot of what was done. He was involved in most if not all Lineouts. 

Serfontein was my choice at 12 or 13. If Esterhuizen can settle, I think Serfontein shoring up 13 would be good. Unless of course Am delivers. As for Frans? I don't know what he has been up to the past couple of years, but he set t he benchmark as the most complete 12 South Africa has ever produced. For many years he was among the three premier 12s in the game: Nonu, Roberts, Frans. You only attack him because you felt he threatened Damian. Damian was, however, so far down the food chain he threatened nobody but the team itself. 

Beeno - best advice - forget about the prejudiced BS and keep to facts.     

Beeno - best advice ignore the BS spreaders.  

All of them are quotas because SA rugby has only put out quota players. No NH club is interested in any of the named quota players.

Stop the storytelling. Terminate rugby in SA.

Allende and Kriel against the wee abs last year was the best center combo for the Bok seen in many a year. Esterhuizen and Am hardly impressed. Esterhuizen shows very little but an inclination to barge the ball up. Am looks a bit delicate.

Well Am and Esterhuizen have a chance to establish themselves but what they have been dishing up has not been good enough to date.

Rohan Janse van Rensburg is a big guy who has great footwork and power and decent pace. Wish he also was available - understand he is injured.

The loose trio will prove to be a problem until Kolisi proves his worth in the big matches. To me the guy has improved. Pity he is no fetcher.

Stop the tale. This player is a quota player as all the others. He wont make it in the kenyan squad. KE. This tells again the situation in SA rugby.

KE, newcomer to rugby, trained by a cricketeer and their players are already better quality than SA quota players.

Stop the tale. Terminate rugby in SA.

Beeno, it is exceedingly rare for me to say something like this, but it's the truth. Damian, as a rugby player, is worthless. Kriel, as a centre, is worthless. They have brought nothing to the jersey but abject mediocrity and failure. Why do we keep persisting with non entities and drive away what little talent we possess? It makes no sense, and appears to be a distinctly South African behaviour. 

We've never fielded a worse defender than Damian. I've never seen a player with so little sense of basic fundamentals that school children know innately. So passive, and repeats his mistakes every single game. It's a shame, he sounds like a nice humble fellow. He just isn't a good player. 

Kriel was a fullback who was converted by Meyer out of desperation. I think if de Jongh went to the World Cup, we beat Japan and maybe fared a little better against New Zealand. In my mind, defence from 13 is the first box to tick. I don't know why Serf was discarded seeing how poor Damian was through the RC. So little provisional for an injury to Jean, who had barely played at all in such a long time.

In last years close New Zealand test, Serfontein was 12. Looking at the loose trio for those games, what the heck was Coetzee thinking? 

Beeno

Esterhuizen was poor in his first two tests and somewhat better to satisfactory level on Saturday.   That does not make a top center choice like some BSters now pretend he is.  Just ignore there tripe and prejudice - they are not worth taking note of.  

Where has anyone on site claimed he is a great centre? Do you see how quickly you stray from the truth? What many have said is that they were stable and functional and we can build on that. What we can't build on is two turnstiles who are attacking cul-de-sacs who need open lanes to mount any kind of attack. These are not the qualities of a centre. 

Beeno

Beware - t he stupid BSter cannot read English as well. 

Beens

Cumon man. Saturday's performance from the two spring chicken Boks was solid. Neither of them made any mistakes and both were solid on defense. 

They know each other and certainly didn't look out of their depth. Two years ago we'd already seen as much as what we'll ever see from Kriel and De Allende. 

Let's give these two at least until the RC and end of year tour ends before we boot them.

Many of us have for a long time been saying that both Kriel and Linda are missing basic skills. Tackling, ball retention, passing(both when to pass and how to pass), decision making and more. 

On Saturday, we had a midfield who did not set the world on fire but who were solid and didn't make glaring match losing errors out of brain farts.

Right now, I think most fans will settle for that.

Ultimately I'd still much prefer to see Kwagga and JSVR/Serfontein there. Same as you.

Damian cost the Boks 3 tries against Australia, nearly a 4th had Folau not lost a simple ball from Giteau. He was befuddled in every tackle and did nothing on attack. Almost all his metres were made when Pienaar sent him clear into space for a long run into Aussie territory. He had poor awareness of the runners around him though and ended as a cul-de-sac. What happened? The media gushed and swooned: "Damian is the best 12 in the world. He is the form player we simply must have going into the World Cup". They kept claiming he ran over everyone, that he was the most creative back. A great many people even said he was better than Sonny Bill Williams,not that he ever played anything like Sonny. He predictably flounders through the rest of the calendar year, though Meyer was clever enough to implement some schemes to get as much as possible out of him against Scotland and Wales before he was exposed against New Zealand.

Now we have a 12 who shows power, calmness, positional awareness, good communication, solidity in pressure situations, good basic skills. When play broke down he made good decisions and was able to think beyond the instructions they were given. He and Am alleviated pressure. All this, and we are told that he is barely okay, that we must still look elsewhere for answers. This dishonesty is what I abhor. Even worse, I get told I am prejudiced when framing this in proper context. Look at those ruck cleans, Esterhuizen was like a forward. His Carries into traffic were immense. He literally, with one arm, thrust his opposite number to ground and powered past him. We never see these things from Damian. Send Damian into the middle from first phase and you have yourself splat ball.

There is no comparison between the two. It just disappoints me how the most in effective players receive so much glory, which can often propel them to 40 caps or more. It can take years before they are ever called out. The same happened with Spies when he came onto the scene. Ironically when he ironed out his game and became a highly effective carrier and dependable defender, the fans turned on him. It made little sense. I can only deduce fans like the sight of someone overtly doing something unusual/different. They don't understand enough about the game to discern its value, so think it must be great. They glorify reckless play.

So, all things considered, I am happy with what Esterhuizen produced. Will we beat New Zealand? No. I am expecting us to be taken apart. However, if this Centre pairing can hold up the remainder of the year, we must keep them. One of Meyer's mistakes was to ditch de Jongh after a very solid EOYT in 2012. He was rewarded with one of the most porous defending at 13 I have ever seen for the Boks, more so than Jacobs. We never did recover from that, aside from Fourie's 100% defence on the 2013 EOYT a few months later. 

Rohan is recovering from ankle surgery .

So wat can we make out from the BS written by the serial BSter on site.  First one he lied ax per normal and has no supporting evidence.   What a fraudster the bugger is.

Nkosi over Mpimpi? Seems harsh. I'm not an Nkosi fan, and Mpimpi was rock solid. Beast was immense. Serfontein is logical though. The loose trio is not one I'd go with. 

Reinach? The most unskilled imitation 9 I have seen? The man is a small wing. 

Combrinck is too slow. Damian is too unskilled, locks any sense for rugby at centre. Too passive and not intelligent enough for test rugby. 

Kwagga is one of a list of insane calls regarding what position a player should play.

Dr Moz and Alucard etc etc etc Augen, please understand that players can improve and grow. Allende and Kriel have been outstanding this season.

Esterhuizen had a very good super rugby season showing nice off loading and passing skllls - but in the tests he has played to date what happened? He went into his shell and played very limited rugby. Rassie will be working on his confidence no doubt.

Jan Serfontein would thrive as a player under Rassie's astute coaching as would the gifted Rohan. Thanks for the update Pakie re Rohan's ankle injury. We dont want biased oaks slamming Rassie for no reason as is their wont! Although to be fair it would appear some oaks are begi nning to realise how smart Rassie is

Saffex you are barking up the wrong tree regarding Vorster he is pap and ineffective! He does next to nothing match after match.

To me the jury is still out re Am, i am keeping an open mind.

The sad truth is that Rassie inherited a complete mess. The great team Jake built was eventually decimated and Bok rugby set back years under PDV Meyer improved matters only to have that disaster Coetzee take over!!!. Oh that Jake had had another 4 yeas followed by Rassie where would we be today.

Damian is the same Player he was all those years ago. Don't fall for media hype again! In 2015, he had a poor Super rugby campaign, but was lauded. He was exposed. He, like Kriel, are not centres. They will never better what Am and Esterhuizen delivered.

Esterhuizen used what was given to him. We play through our forwards. That said, Esterhuizen and Am both alleviated pressure and we're solid in everything they did. Damian and Kriel are lightyears behind these two. 

I think Serfontein would thrive, he is a good reader of player, and organiser. Good communicator. I would not deny him a chance as 12.

Augen be guided by Beeno on this matter. Allende currently is the best all round 12 although Rohan needs a shot to see what he could do for the Boks.

Anybody thinking Allende has not had a good season has missed the plot!

Beeno

You must always be careful - we have liars on site who use falsified info to attack players.   That happened even th is week in the case of Louw and  by one such in writing about De Allende.

The problem is there are seriously prejudiced posters who do not care about the truth,   I am not sure what positive Meyer in fact played ultimately - other than to get back over-the-hill players and then found a losing streak between November 2014 and September where the Springboks won only three tests of 8 played - one win of which was a friendly against Argentina - who actually played more fringe players to get them involved in team selection for the WC.

That was followed by the Japan disaster - where Meyer picked the "most experienced side in Springbok history".

Meyer also made some classical remarks about his team selection:-

*   South Africa does not have the skilled backline players who can play a ball-in-hand game.

*   I know what the players are selected are capable of - weird since he forget that the capabilities was what had happened was more than 7 years previously.

*    I made the mistake of players I am acquainted with - after picking 14 Bulls players to play or being on the bench in the 2012 tests with disastrous consequences.

The first one above was clearly confirmed where forwards became first receivers from the scrummies of more than 65% of passes made were to the forwards and not to the flyhalf.   That is why I mentioned that Burger became the "stand-in flyhalf"  in WC tests - which totally neutralized the backline.

All of the above showed a declining performance record under Meyer that reached alarming situation in 2015. 

For the rest I agree with you in essence about what you wrote.      

Ou maaaikie had it not been for wee matfiled, the pappest "lock" ever to play for the Boks, we would have beaten the wee abs and doubtless won the WC under Meyer it was that close. Meyer was a respectable coach but not a great one.

Perspective ou maaaikie perspective and of course balance!

Actually, it was mostly Sharks players who floundered in 2012, though there were Bulls too, like Kruger. The majority of the team was laden with Sharks. In the first England test it was 7 Sharks to 4 Bulls. In the second, 8 Sharks to 4 Bulls. Gradually we found more WP players. So no, your narrative that Meyer loaded the Boks with Bulls is a lie. In the first RC game, The number of starting Bulls dropped to 3. We had one more in the return fixture. 4 against Australia and 5 against New Zealand, the test where Goosen folded like a deck of cards and New Zealand scored 2 tries as a result. In the second Aussie and All Black test we had 2 Bulls in the starting XV. On the EOYT we had 3 Bulls start in every game. You have made a fool of yourself, again! 

The scape goats were Hougaard and Morné, their replacements played much worse. The New Zealand commentator bemoaning the aimless high balls and box kicks of Pienaar.

As far as the backline was concerned, who did Meyer bypass in the backline? 12 and 13. He tried very hard to get some grunt out of Damian. It worked against Scotland in the first half, and he was more stable against Wales, but fl oundered completely against New Zealand, again. You mention a quote that makes no mention to specific players. I can tell exactly what he was doing from play on the field. You lie again. 

It gets worse. You reference the experience of the Japan Bok team, but neglect to account for the fact that just 3 players accounted for 340 caps! The average age of that team was 28.3. Take Matfield out and it drops to 26.6. Your narrative is disgraceful. I could make this worse by listing all the new caps Meyer dished out! He always went to youth first. 

Beeno

Don't believe the BS spreader.   In 2012 there were 14 different Bulls players starting or on the bench in tests played.    

I do believe that players like Morne Steyn, Steenkamp and Matfield was part of the problem.  Morne was eventually dropped in 2012 and twice in 2014 after poor performances against the Welsh and the Aussies respectively .  

Steenkamp was on the bench for his Toulouse club and was piss-poor in scrumming.  When he and Jannie played against Argentina the two managed to go backwards in scrums at jet speed. in at least 4 tests.   It is debatable who was the wort of the two props mentioned,   

In the case of Matfield - he buggered up badly in three tests - ie the English test won by SA - but nearly lost by the yellow card of Matfield.  

In two AB tests he buggered up badly:-

*   In the Wellington test of 2014 a penalty was awarded to the Springboks five minutes before the end of the game when the AB's was leading 14 - 10.   They kicked for the corner to try for a pushover try.   Matfield fumbled the ball in the line-out and the rolling maul idea was nullified.

*   in the succeeding test in Joannesburg the Springboks were leading by 6 points when there was a  line-out on own throw about 5 meters out.   Easy for the AB's to outjump Matfield and the AB's scored a converted try.   The win was only sealed after a penalty conversion from 55 out by Lambie.  Incidentally the leading BSter said that it was not a pressure conversion.  

In both cases our local liars screamed murder when it was exposed and the falsified cover-up was really too funny to believe.   Lies can be amusing - you know.         

Matfield didn't feature in the 2012 and 2013 seasons through retirement Clever Mike. Gurthro played two tests in 2012, on the EOYT. Both wins with a powerful scrum. He played 10 further games under Meyer from the bench with 3 further starts (all wins). In fact, under Meyer, we lost 2 out of the 15 tests he featured in. He must have been a lucky charm!

Morné was dropped, yes. Morné was no problem against Wales. He was hounded out because of a failure to find touch with a long ball into Aussie territory. Let's not lose sight of the truth, Freifrau Clever.

The rest of your points are errant. The only fact was the yellow card, but you neglected to mention that Victor made the most ruck cleans in that game, and a potential try saving tackle when Lambie was run over deep in Bok territory. He was solid on defence. What of Lambie's missed kick to touch when England was down a forward? Or his hospital pass to Serf with numbers out wide? Or his aimless high ball to nowhere? Or all of his poor tackles? Or his two charge downs in the Bok 22? All this yet you berate Victor? Shameless. Absolutely shameless.

Matveld was a disgrace and should never have got beyond third league club rugby. As the great Bakkies said - Victor doesn't always play in the backline. That says it all.

Cant think any stat saying wee matfield made the most clean outs is accurate as wee victor avoided the physical stuff like the plague! Kolisi is a monster compared to pap victor! So the pap fraud made a few tackles - heck he had to make a contribution sometime during his stay out in the backline!

No the very stupid penalty the very experienced matfield handed to the wee abs cost us the match. Cost Meyer his Bok coaching position. Why the heck did he bring back this old never has been pap "lock" back must be his recurring nightmare. He could have been a WC winning coach if only he had listened to Beeno!!

Meyer could have been a world cup winning coach had he selected centres who could defend! It certainly would have helped against Japan. Of course, selecting Lambie when he could have had the assurance of a tactical kicker and distributor would have been another better option. Lambie's first order of business losing the ball forward in an attempted carry. There was also the terribly out of form Willie who played poorly throughout the World Cup. This of course severely limiting our backline and left us pinned in our half throughout the entire All Black test. Did the Boks enter New Zealand's 22 once? I don't recall one instance. There were far bigger problems than Victor. Note Lood's totem pole defence and Damian's failure to shutdown Nonu. Anyway you slice it, the media darlings cost the Boks more than Victor, Louw, Schalk et al. The plastic fans always attack the most productive players.

And Beeno, it's not playing in the backline. This notion that Victor literally played in the backline is as ignorant as anything I have ever heard from Clever Mike, which is saying something indeed! 

D ave  - not to worry - the liars are trying to take you on through manipulation of facts into lies..   

Augen my full sympathies are always with Bakkies who had to do the work of two!

The worrying thing is this, the Boks physically dominated Argentina, but Kolisi was still nowhere in sight most of the game. What will happen when we face New Zealand? I suspect New Zealand's more dynamic and physical pa ck will have the upper hand. This man can't be captain. Absolutely ridiculous.