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FORUM / RUGBY /  Biltong...just a reminer

Biltong...just a reminer

Started by Mozart8 REPLIES224 VIEWS· 12 Dec 2014, 05:32
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2014, 05:32
#1
12 Dec 2014, 05:32#1

You claimed it wasn't your point of view that we couldn't win and so you would  just pick a  new team. This extract from your Nov. 12 post  kinda blows that out the water: 



Drop 'em all.
November 09, 2014, 13:05:17


"Lets face it, this Bok team is not going to win the Rugby World Cup, you may argue this is an over reaction, but the same issues in this game has plagued us against Wales, Argentina, Australia and New Zealand.

Meyer is relying on experienced players as his leadership group and they are not showing the ability to adapt, I therefor say get rid of them all.

Apart from the fact that Matfield is not physical enough, de Villiers have not shown any of the form that made him great last year, there is criticism of form against all the older players.

Forget about winning the World Cup in 2015, it is not going to happen, accept it and move on by building a new team, put a group of youngsters together and build a team for 2019, but start now.

Agree or disagree, but these so called experienced players are not going to take us any further."

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
12 Dec 2014, 06:53
#2
12 Dec 2014, 06:53#2

 RE: Biltong....as requested
December 11, 2014, 21:21:41

I'm not expecting much agreement, and to be honest I don't really care. The challenge is obvious....what do you do when your putative centre pairing is a class down from the NZ, Wales, Oz, French centre pairings? The answer is obvious, bottle up the centres and counter attack. But when you can't even see the problem, the solution is likely to be elusive.

 

A "me too" strategy never works with inferior resources. You need a unique strategy that allows you to shape events in your favour.

 

Or you adopt Biltong's view....we have no chance of winning so lets just play wide open rugby.



RE: Biltong....as requested
December 11, 2014, 22:31:04

You're wrong about my view. My view is to start developing a new team. 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
12 Dec 2014, 06:54
#3
12 Dec 2014, 06:54#3

 Blows what out of the water?


If you are going to nitpick, at least be correct.


BUILD NEW TEAM is not the same as PLAY WIDE OPEN RUGBY.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2014, 08:06
#4
12 Dec 2014, 08:06#4
 I read this one and cannot see the point Mozart is trying to raise here.   Elsewhere he indicated his preferred team which he admitted -
*    would not win the WC; but*    would be "challenging".
There are two issues here in my view.   The first thing is why take a team to the WC that cannot win the WC?   Secondly what is meant by "challenging"?   Is it winning the round robin matches and losing in the quarterfinals? 
If the latter is the case it would be a much better proposition to take a squad to the WC that can be a surprise package - but players would gain experience in playing WC rugby and as a result by 2019 would be really competitive.   
Lets face facts the form of the following players have been very questionable in Super 15 and tests the past year:-
*   JP Pietersen,  Jean de Villiers, Francois Steyn, Bryan Habana, Willem Alberts, and Jannie du Plessis;
*   Victor Matfiled showed serious physical deficiency in tight  5 play and his famed line-out superiority dribbled down to a very low number;
*   Fourie play above-average scrummie play in one game and if he has to play the next game a week later - his performance in th second game becomes a lottery ticket - cannot perform if he has to play  a game a week due to deficient stamina.
Even if Jean de Villiers cannot play - the above means that nearly half of your starting line-up shows serious deficiencies in performance - so why both er with them in the first instance?
I agree in essence with Biltongbek here - get rid of the above and take a gamble in performance - we may do better than expected.      Just another issue - there is a scarecrow - also used by Mozart and other members - that if you oppose the selection of certai players or question the playing style of the Bulls and this years Sharks -  you have to be a supporter of playing wide open rugby.    Nothing can be further from the truth   What is meant is less predicatability - better execution and variation of play based on proper reading of the game - more accuracy in execution of plays in the game.   .    
 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
12 Dec 2014, 09:00
#5
12 Dec 2014, 09:00#5

Mike, some don't understand what playing positive rugby means.


As soon as you suggest we have to be less predictable, ore creative and more positive, the brain shuts down and thinks.


We gotsta play da ball wide. Duh.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Dec 2014, 12:46
#6
12 Dec 2014, 12:46#6

For a start, our centre pairing is as good and potentially better than any other test side out there.......NZ have two old men in Nonu and Smith, with Fikato a real hot prospect and the return of SBW for how long really......so we will give NZ the edge for now......but they have no class young 12's coming through. If Crotty is the best then that proves my point.

 

Oz have recently discovered that Kurandrani is a real threat, but that's where it ends. AAC tends to play all over the shop in that side and the likes of Tomua and Liafano are hardly world beaters. So Oz are NOT better than us at centre, not even close

 

Wales have old man Roberts at 12 who is past it like Jean is and in Davies they have a class act at 13......it ends there. They are not better than us at centre.

 

France......hell they change their centres weekly. The only class act here is Fofana at 12, but he is not better than Jan......the French are certainly not better than us at centre.

 

Give me Jan and JJ/de Allende over any international centre pair other than SBW/Fikato  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2014, 17:47
#7
12 Dec 2014, 17:47#7
I must say, it's entertaining:

1 Biltongbek wants to give up and build for 2019.
2 The Oom wants to take a " surprise package" to RWC 2015
3 And Dave thinks Jan,  yes he did play against Wales  Stepfontein, is better than Fofana.

Three different HM detractors, three different fantasies about the future.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Dec 2014, 18:27
#8
12 Dec 2014, 18:27#8

Without doubt Jan is better than Fofana who has not done anything of note in a test all year. Don't get me wrong, he is good but Jan is better.

 

But my real point was that you are so wrong regarding our centres versus the rest out there......you need to be a little more loyal and positive about our players Moz  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2014, 21:41
#9
12 Dec 2014, 21:41#9
 Mozart
You are the ignorant member who posts a team and then said they will not win the WC - but will be challenging in performance.   I ak you what you meant by challenging - no response.
What Dave, BB and I wrote is not fantasies - looking at your comments - you are the one who lives in Cloud Cuckoo land and fantasizes.   Wanting to send a team to the WC - whom you said youraself will not win the WC - while we think it would be better to send one w ho can gain experience in WC rugby and be of much more value in 2019.
That is not fanatsizing - that is fcing up to reallity.
    
— END OF THREAD —

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