Blue Print for Beating the AllBlacks

 to be updated......

1. A fetcher(e.g. Brussouw) to create turnovers and slow down opposition rucks. The All Blacks thrive on quick ruck ball to get their backs into the game.  (the Fetcher must not be a liability under current rules and be a penalty machine.)

2. A fetcher to clean out our own rucks to ensure less turn overs, and also quick recycling of the ball to get our players(forwards and backs) to run onto the ball flat on the advantage line. One on one if our players take the ball over the advantage line with the opposition on the back foot we dominate the collisions. (Bulls Super Rugby champion style).

3. Get our outside backs into the game. The All Blacks are the best rugby team in the world. However applying both of the above points to put them under pressure, and suddenly their defence is not very strong. Every team that beats the All Blacks puts them under pressure and suddenly their defence becomes weak. The French have done this in many world cups. The boks have done this- example Marius Joubert getting 3 tries against the All Blacks, and close to a 4th. As good as the All blacks are- put them under the same pressure that they put other teams- and they crack. 

It is just about being getting quick possesion and slowing their possion down, and then getting the outside backs into the game and then the AllBlacks are very beatable.

On the topic of brussouw- when he was playing his best for the Boks- he has never lost to an All Black team. Although his form in last years world cup was poor, he seemed to be returning to form before another injury- when is coming back from injury. It is interesting that Meyer announced that he is not considered due to injury. Against the Sharks he was really good in 1st half. Perhaps if he did not get injured the Sharks would have lost, or at least not got 4 tries for the bonus point.(last SP15 game) The Sharks were losing the 1st half, but Brussow did not enter fo the 2nd half

Sharkbok

The two so-clled fetchers - McCaw and Pocock had horror games on Saturday and they caused penalty problems for their own teams.   Slowing down balls in ,mmost situations is not allowed anymore and led to penalties as well.   Sorry I do not agree with you about Brussow - but I would never ever select him ahead of Coetzee.  

The difference between this AB team and AB teams in the past is that this team can adapt to any situation they are thrown in on game day.   Dunno about the bok backline but I havent seen it at its best since JW and Eddie were in charge.

sharkbok as always your on the money. great post again.

@clevermike fair point but that is few and far between. brussouw against the sharks nailed us at the breakdown in the cc. that is the effect that a fecther can have on a game. they play the laws that is a given but its up to management and the coaches to sit down and discuss how and where they can use the fetcher best. the influence that a a fetcher can have on a game is huge. securing ruck ball is paramount when you play the likes of AB and the wallies.

as sharkbok as said the best way to defend against them is to attack them. they are so attack intensive that they do tend to leave the defence open at times. with the boks combative direct style the defence wall will crack sooner rather than later. in saying that one needs a player that targets that breakdown area so ensure quick ruck ball (yes beeno with quick ruck ball one can score trys...quick ball=less time for defence to restructure=more gaps=more tries). with our ball carriers rucks should be the main focus area. to ask 4 to 5 forwards to track the length of the field to secure every ruck is impossible. so it makes logical sense to pick a player that make the workload less for the rest and frees up the big boys to only  running with the ball.

it fits perfectly with the playing pattern of using big players and allows a steady ball supply to our players. in regards to our backline well all i can say is there poor cohesion and form wont change until they there is a shift of the tempo at which the ball is being generated. they back get the ball very static as well. morne has played better but is still way off the mark. frans had a shocker on saterday so he needs to step up

its not rocket science but looking after the basic aspects of rugby like retaining you ball and making sure the quality is quick and effective goes along way to beating any side.

I like your strategy and thinking Sharkbok, but its not going to happen while we have Meyer in charge. The Sharks are now playing the game you suggest and i believe if it was not for the hectic travel schedule, they would have walked away with that Super title. Just look at the Cheetahs, who were utterly useless when they played the old skop en jaag, but just look at them now. Its clear that an up tempo game with quick recycle ball at the breakdown is the winning rugby of the modern era.

Unfortunately our coach does not believe in this style of play and he will stick to the ten man rugby kak. I wonder if he will pick Goosen when he's fit again. Fransie is a great player, but will have to slim down and stay away from KFC and Wimpy. JDV is way past his sell by date and Jordaan needs to be blooded in. Hougie is best suited to wing and Pienaar is the best halfback at the moment. The guys who need to be left completely out of the Bok set-up are Jannie DP, Flip Flop VDM, Jaques Potties, Spies, Morne, JDV and Kirchner. Guys to be brought in are Brian Mujati, WP Nel, Heinrich Brussouw, Duane Vermeulen, Goosen, Paul Jordaan and Juan DJ.

great selections there green.....that is the making of a great team there...mujati has been massive overseas. why he is not in the team i will never know.

i will tell spies to drop 5 kg when i will pick him on the wing. vermeulen is much better suited to that barge style of play. a combo of him and the human wrecking ball alberts can be a nightmare to defend. add offloads to there cv and you have a direct style that creates space right there.

To beat the All Black is easy, we only need our own version of...

anyone who thinks that McCaw is a fetcher has no idea about McCaw and the state of All Blacks rugby at the moment. after 2007 RWC McCaw has evolved his game away from the specilaist pilfer and devloped a more all round game. he still pilfers the odd ball after all it was his trademark move that united nations in their disdain at how effective he was, but it is no longer his one and only trick unlike bursoow and pocock.
McCaw is now a more complete player who can crashball with the best of them, link up with the backs when attacking with NZs epansive flair, defend at a level that belies his 31 years and still tick off all his flanker to do list.
also McCaw has been IMHO the best loose forward of the 2012 international season, theres no else in the world u can put in at 6,7 or 8 like McCaw and still deliver the stats that he is doing and so far in 2012, no one has.
last weekend is a prime example of what im talking about, just look at the numbers which never lie and u will see McCaw deliever another complete performance as he outplays his SANZAR counter parts,,,
runs
McCaw - 5
pocock - 6
coeztee - 11

meters made
McCaw - 27mtrs
pocock - 1mtr
coeztee - 30mtrs

linebreaks
McCaw - 1
pocock - 0
coeztee - 0

tackle breaks
McCaw - 4
pocock - 0
coeztee - 2

offloads
McCaw - 1
pocock - 0
coeztee - 0

handaling errors
McCaw - 1
pocock - 0
coeztee - 1

tackles
McCaw - 15
pocock - 4
coeztee - 9

miss tackles
McCaw - 0
pocock - 1
coeztee - 0

penalties conceded
McCaw - 1
pocock - 2
coeztee - 1

lineout takes
McCaw - 2
pocock - 0
coeztee - 0

its obvious to see that McCaws game revolves around whats best for the team and even though coetzee got that good try, i hope he dosent become like hgginbotham and lurk around the backline waiting for the ball to come out to him, cos he should take a page from McCaws book and get involved with the rough stuff up front, the number on his back should be enough for him to do it with me mentiong it, lol.

i dont agree with sharkboks plan but i do hope they bring back back brussow, especially over coetzee cos that will make the All Blacks job a lot easier.
the problem with sharkboks plan is even if u do use a specialised fetcher like brussow or how the wallabies did with pocock, hes only as good as the other 7 forwards. if they dont commit to the breakdown with numbers and with determined aggression, then the All Blacks are going to shit all over u like they did with the wallabies last weekend, like the chiefs did to the sharks in the finals and the crusaders did to the bulls in the qualifying finals.
this is one area where NZ are head nad shoulders above both SA and OZ. SA and OZ also struglled in these areas against england and wales in their test series where ball pilfering from the oppoisiton was ripe, even the lowly pumas got a fair share of their ball from the breakdowns, all because the Boks had an almost nonchalant attitude in this area.
im afraid u wont find any such compalency with the All Blacks here and if the Boks continue to approach the breakdown with the same level of gusto they have in all 4 tests this year, then it aint gonna matter if brussows there or not.

as for this 100% record that brussow has against the ALL Blacks, puuuurrrrrrrllleeeeaaaaassssse, LMAO.

brussow has faced the All Blacks 4 times, 3 in 2009 which was a painful whitewash to swallow on the back of du preeze and mornes brilliant kicking game and the Boks 10 man rugby plan aided by the rules which were subsquently changed the following year and in the last All Blacks/Bok test where NZ sent a team to PE missing McCaw, carter, conrad smith, b thorn, kerean read, m nonu, mills muliaina, no excuses cos the better team won, but still thats only 3 tests against the All Blacks stars where he accumulated his winning percentage.

considering hes been playing for the Boks since 2008 but only racked up 20 tests, shows that hes been injured longer then McCaw has his entire 107 test cap career (testemant to McCaws toughness and vitality) and fallen out of favour with the national coach ala eng test.
IMO he should play a few more games of the high level rugby before empahsising his what is IMO not so illustrious record, but each to their own.
if how ever that 100% record does hold water, then how about his 100% losing record against france and ireland, i mean seriously IRELAND??? o_O,,,,,oooopppps, sorry boys i forgot, just cos the All Blacks dont know what its like to lose to ireland dosent mean that the Boks dont, my bad. memo to self,the irish are only weak to the All Blacks, lmao,,jk boys, :P
 

Sasuke, you certainly have the bragging rights at the moment and rightfully so! I agree that Richie has adapted his game and is looking more all rounded in the test series, but was off the mark in the Super rugby comp. That might have been because he was working his way back in from injury so I would not be saying he was the best loosie in the super comp.

What we need to do in SA rugby is change our mindset, so that we become more attack oriented as opposed to the old bully them upfront and kick strategy that we currently employ. It will take a while, but I think that many are starting to see the reason and logic in employing the more expansive game which requires speed, ball skills, footwork and insight, which have never been the strong points of a Bok team. But this shift in mindset needs to happen at the early developmental stages and I was really happy to see our under 20 team using these strategies and that is how they beat the ABs at the recent championship in CT. It speaks volumes of what is required to beat the Kiwis and we have the capability, but HM is not the man for the job.

 @sasuke- Mccaw is more than just a fetcher, I think everyone is aware of that. This is why he plays in other positions in the backrow other than just openside. He has however made his name for himself at the breakdowns and this is where he is usually most influentual. He is not a stronger ball carrier than say Alberts. Brussouw has allways dominated the breakdown when playing against New Zealand and this is why every game against the All Blacks the boks have won with Richie being Brussows bitchie. When New Zealdand get beaten at the breakdowns they lose. (Their is allways someone on the All blacks teams who pushes the limits at ruck play to retain possesion, get faster possesion, turn overs or slow the opposition ball down.

Sean Fitpatrick used to live inside the ruck. I remember one time when he felt the rath of many sprigbok boots to rake him out of the ruck on our side. When teams get fast possesion from the rucks and turnovers- the All Black defence becomes very vulnurable. In 2009 the boks domainted the breakdowns and won all 3 games against the All Blacks. The Kicking game of Fourie Dupreez was very good and the All Blacks missed many up and unders in the air- or on the floor from the ensuing ruck that was cleaned out by the boks. 

Sasuke wrote:

"im afraid u wont find any such compalency with the All Blacks here and if the Boks continue to approach the breakdown with the same level of gusto they have in all 4 tests this year, then it aint gonna matter if brussows there or not."

This is bang on In my opinion. The All Blacks, and Kiwi teams in Super15 are dominating in the breakdown because of their pure aggression, and speed to which they arrive at the breakdown. For some reason they seem to take this area of the game a lot more seriously, or at least it looks like they do, then OZ and SA.

its simple you lose the battle at the ruck you lose the game. with teams well organised on defence these days slow or bad ball is a headshot to any attacking team.

AB are masters at the breadown only because our coaches apart from plums and naka dont think for some reason that the breakdown is that important. stats also tell that the teams that lose the least amount of rucks are almost 99% of the times the winning team. there is many techical areas where one can increase the recycling speed like placing the ball as far away as possible from the body ext to ensure that counter ruckers are lest effective but this basic skill is lacking from our players. poor body form at the rucks are also a problem. our players like the mindless android potgieter (i am trying to be sebastian chebal lookalike but i use a GHD to straighten my hair) is case and point..

sorry i am getting off topic here

if we can change our mindset with the amount of players and structures that we do have to our use there is nothing that can stop us here in SA beating every side in the world on a weekly basis. i feel teams like the cheetahs and the sharks are getting that mix right with there attack and defence. its just up to the other teams to change as well.

1. "............its simple you lose the battle at the ruck you lose the game..............."

2. You select Morne Steyn, you loose.

Which one is it?

the point i was trying to make is the ruck is ultra important and we dont handle that area of the game very well....morne steyn alone can lose us the game but he does get some really slow poor ball sometimes as well so that also just compounds the problem.

LOL. True Muncher. Was a bit tingue in cheek as well. Fact is that rugby is a team sport, but the basic truth is that, as you say,  the moment the forwards buckle the team will buckle, no matter what your game plan is. Be that running or kicking or whatever you want to call it. Having said that, we have to bear in mind, many times have I seen a game where the forwards crumbled and then the fyhalf and/or fulback kick them out of the smelly stuff.

 Sometimes even when the Springbok forwards dominate possesion we still lose- an example being in the world cup to Australia in the quarters.

We can have ball carriers dominating the advantage line, but the slower the ball takes to come out the more phases are required to create space. More phases mean more chances of turnovers. The boks allways look good when the ball is cleared quickly and cleanly from rucks. An example being in the 2nd test, first half against the English. That is when the boks start looking invincibale as our strong ball carriers start to play the type of game we believe and know they can.

In the 1st test against the English, especially the 1st half the ball was very slow to come out of rucks. Pienaar is much better at digging out the ball quicker out of rucks to increase the tempo of the game.

Dumb Potgieter is a liabilty at the rucks. He is too thick and clumsy and probably knocking his own players over the ruck by charging into it. We need intelligent players who can stay on their feet and get to rucks quickly. 

Argentina were all over our rucks. We should have scored at least another 2 tries were it not for poor ball retention at rucks. Although I did think at least one of them should have got a yellow card given the amount of warnings they got from the referreee.

The AllBlacks are very consistent in ball retention by quick rucking and also slowing opposition ball down. Quick clean ruck ball and we can beat them. 

I am still keen to play brussouw- but only if he is in top form. It looked like he was getting back to that in the Super15 game against the Sharks but got injured once again. 

spot on sharkbok as always....its not rocket science quick ruck ball = more space less organised defence more tries. having a brussouw that gives one that chance to create that ball retention is paramount. the AB and wallies have picked those type of players for years and the way the play and the results they have gotten over the years proves that there is a massive need for it....you do lose out at lineout options and a little bit at a scrum time but if one looks at the amount of rucks there are in a game then under the new elvs one can see its almost 80 + rucks a game these days and lineouts and scrums combined are not more than 20-30 odd.

so being perfect at your ruck skills wise and tactics wise is should be a given.