Bok starting 15 for Aus!

South Africa: 15. Zane Kirchner, 14 Bryan Habana, 13 Jean de Villiers (captain), 12 Frans Steyn, 11 Francois Hougaard, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Juandre Kruger, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Beast Mtawarira. Substitutes: 16 Tiaan Liebenberg, 17 Pat Cilliers, 18 Flip van der Merwe, 19 Francois Louw, 20 Johan Goosen, 21 Patrick Lambie, 22 Lwazi Mvovo

Happy to see Goosen and Louw, but Lambie should've started at 15. Sorry but I don't see this team winning in Aus and NZ

the team is still not the best team with the players available, but it is getting better.
one crazy thing im wondering about is, both lambie and goosen are on the bench so if the game is close, will meyer replace morne??? games to date indictae thats a no and that tactical substituions has also been a great wekaness in meyers game.
but lambie will get a shot on the field at some stage, but most likely to replace krinchner and i will be very intrested in seeing how vermeulen goes, especially with wallaby lock timani who proved to be a real asset for his team with some of the end of the line defence he produeced at eden park against the All Blacks.

Thanks BokBe and have to agree re Lambie at 15.

saSUE I am not with you re your comment about Vermuelen and that lock Timani? Vermuelen may be the size of a lock but will play number 8. Vermuelen must make the first half - take a break and play say 10 minutes in second half.

Goosen may get a few minutes esepcially if we have by then put Oz away.

We could get away with Juandre against Oz, as they tend to be less physical and because we have a pretty physical loose trio to pick up the slack.

This is a much stronger team than we had against the Pumas. I am glad guys like Bekker, Mvovo etc that have really not performed well have been cut from the starting line-up. I am also very happy for Vermeulen, and I think he is exactly what our loose trio needs. Also, the tactical switches with Hougard and Alberts are also good moves. Don't really know why Kirchner is still starting, but as unexciting as he is, he is still relatively solid under both the high ball and in defence, so he should at least be able to hold his own. I think it is too soon for Goosen to be playing for the Boks, both because of too little time to get match fit after a long injury layoff and because I think he is too inexperienced...still, a part of me is glad he is there. Overall I think a lot of the weaknesses we had against the Pumas have been rectified.

I feel positive about this team!

A slight improvement as a result of moving of Hougaard to the wing and Vermeulen at no 8   However, the continued inclusion in the team team of Kirchner is problematic.   Apparently the very average Kruger is preferred to Bekker - and the worse Van der Merwe is on the bench.   That can only imply a weakening of the team.   The loosie combination is better than in the Argentinian test.

The selection indicates that Bekker and Potgieter got the blame for the Argentinian disaster.   Rightly so.

The question remains - how is this team going to perform against the Wallabies?    I have tried to analyze the situation by comparing combinations and believe that the following is in evidence:-

*   15 -   Beale when he is bad - he is very bad, but he can also be brilliant and given the circumstances he is a much better player than the clueless Kirchner.   Beale 70 - Kirchner 30

Wings -   I would say 50-50 in this case

Centers - Depends on whether Francois Steyn wakes up and start playing - but the center combination of the Wallabies is way ahread of the Springboks - 60-40 in favour of the Wallabies.

Flyhalf - Cooper 80 - Steyn 20

Scrummie - Here I am going to surprise people by saying 50-50

Back line summary:-

Australia  310 - Springboks 190 

No 8 :   Vermeulen is a much better player than he is credited for - 60-40 in favour of the Springboks

Loosies :   60-40 in favour of the Boks

Locks -  Etzebeth is a class act - but Kruger is very, very average : 60-40 in favour of the Springboks.

Props -   50-50

Hooker - 50-50

Forwards Summary

Wallabies  -   220 :  Springboks - 280

Overall score

Wallabies 530 - Springboks 470

In total the situation is that the Springboks will have an advantage over the Wallabies in respect of the forwards - but the advanntage is too small to off-set the massive difference in the backline.   The Wallabies would be wise to spread the ball wide and run at the Boks continuously - and to launch attacks after kicking by the Boks.   They should also  pepper Kirchner with high and effective kicks - he is guaranteed to misfire in such an event. 

Based on my personal evaluation - the Springboks are going to lose by 9+ points.

There is one danger for the Wallabies and that would be an early replacement of Kirchner and Morne Steyn by Lambie and Goosen - that could change the situation somewhat in favour of the Springboks.

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 The Woolie Boolie aside, this is the best backline under HM. The pack is also improved with Vermeulen for Potgieter. It's just a pity HM couldn't go the whole hog and replace Coetzee with Louw. We desperately need a fetcher vs coetzees open side runner role. 

Pathetic locks are a total screw up. I understand why Bekker is gone, he stank the whole game in Bargentina. And part of it was his management of the lineouts, in addition to his poor play.....so much so he lost it mentally. Buy Flip as the sub....why in heavens name. Etzebeth plays the whole game usually andbekker as a sub, with his greater pace, feels so much more dynamic.

Kirchner and Flip Flop have to go.

 Not the sure whether the changes have really made the team better at all. Good to see Faceplant Potgieter not starting but then you have vermeulen who has only played two games and are only 40% in terms of match fitness and sharpness. Good to see Pienaar getting a run, not sure whether Hougaard should have been shifted to the wing. Some like Mozart may say that Mvovo isa lazy runner, but the back play has been extremely poor with really flat ball and not great back line play which means the ball just gets shuffeld out wide. 

Kirchner and Morne is still there so this hasn't really improved the team at all. Don't like the bench at all. Flip Flop, Cilliers and the fact that we have two Flyhalfs on the bench makes me wonder. Goosen has had only one game and should be playing CC to get match fit. 

Will see if Meyer will still play the same rudderless game plan. 

 I am really glad for Both Vermeulen and Goosen, However I think it's still too early, they are both still in the recovery process and need at least another two or three games.

Bekker Is all Brawn and no brains. We need some brains there to run the Lineouts. Kanko would have helped but Juandre can do as well. I see the other thing is Bekker's back maybe it's psychological with him.

Glad for Flo, he brings some versatility to the loosies which is good. He can be used as a big strong ball carrier as well as a scrounger. Hope he gets another look in. Maybe the Loosies would have been better balanced with starting with Flo and Coetzee off the becnh but that is open for speculation.

Flip I am no sure about really. Zane actually gains alot of metres from the back and is safe under the ball without bieng anything special. However i would like to see the same plus someone that is special. We all know Lambie has that, but he hasn't showed it in a while. Mayhaps we will be reminded come Saturday if he gets a chance, I surely hope so.

Hougaard is a better choice on the Wing than Mvovo at this stage. Mvovo looks as someone mentioned a bit lazy, Hougaard's workrate at least will make up for that.

I really Hope Pienaar can get the ball out fast, as we saw how it helps if a scrummie clears the ball out quick in the WP Bulls game over the weekend. No matter who the outside backs are, they just have more space and time to play with.

Ek

Sorry to differ from you about the Krischner situation.   He is a real liability in the case of high balls coupled to pressure - normally knocks them on.   Also - he may join the backline and receive balls - but evidently has no idea of passing - so the balls die with him and often enough that results is turnover of the balls and even penalties,   Happened repeatedly in the Argentina game and will continue to happen in future.  

He is the real weak link in th backline.   Steyn can be slightly better than rated - but if he continues to kick aimlessly - the Aussies will start attacks from deep and that could be a real problem for the Springboks.   I only hope - and said that aboe - that Francois Steyn improves and start to play rugby - in the previous tests he was a negative.   If he continues in present vein - we are dead ducks. 

This is a much better side than previously with just two changes I would of preferred, ie. Lambie @ 15 and Flouw to start at 6 with Coetzee moving to the bench.

Hopefully Morne will fire because of the pressure placed on him by both Goosen and Lambie. Love the idea of Pienaar at nine, it will make a massive difference to the service to Morne which might go a long way in giving him more time to execute. Great to see Willem Alberts at blindside flank, a position where he certainly plays his best game from.

My prediction, it's gonna go down to the wire with the Bokke showing better discipline than the Wobblies and clinching it in the end, Boks by 3.

well first off i agree with mike, green, kingcorn and sasue....first off why louw and lambie is not in the starting line up is mystery. dr roboto aka zane is nothing short of predictable and easy to read in both defence and attack. nothing of the way he plays will give the opposing teams a sleepless night before the game. louw should have been a must a fetcher is a must against the aussies even more so against the ab but alas he is on the bench so that will in my view come back to haunt the one track minded meyer. i love coetzee's play but he does not offer or compliment the lose trio in terms of fecthing abilty unless he has added another dimension to his skillset over the last couple of weeks.

louw is the poormans brussouw so at least he offers some form of breakdown skills. great to see goosen there he will grow and learn from this expierence. so lets hope he is up for it. it does not get any bigger than this. morne is feeling the heat and rightfully so. another poor showing and he needs to go.

it all offcourse depends on what type of game HM goes out with. if we see another penile limp sterile forwards obsessed kicking game then i can assure you it will be a long night at the office.

the aussie pack is very very streetsmart so we wont dominate them so lets hope we can somehow create a few try scoring chances. the real battle will be to win the breakdowns and playing quick attacking rugby

Green was it you who suggested Louw at 6, Coetzee at 8 and Alberts at seven? Vermuelen on the bench. That to me made a lot of sense.

I think Meyer left Coetzee in as he was scared of the collective speed of Louw, Vermulen and Alberts.

Gald to see ou muncher agreeing with with Mike, Green, Kingcorn and saSUE - even though they dont agree monst themsleves - Hahahahahaha

 some good changes here. Potgieter not in the squad is good. Kirchner should also be dropped with Lambie in his place. Hope Duane Vermuelen is ready for the pace of test rugby after his injury layoff, and that 

I probably would have started with Louw to try get the rucks in order. Then brought on Vermuelen later in the game.

Louw is as Muncher has descriped- the poor mans Brussouw. Would be good to get Brussouw back in the mix.

Wonder if Goosen will get a run. I think he should remain on the bench until the home games. Maybe give him a run in the last few minutes. He needs to get match fit. 

 I’m glad to see that both Vemeulen and Goosen are in the team but just worried that it may be too soon. We also have to look at their match fitness, both have been out of the game for 4 months and neither of them has played at this level. I would perhaps either introduce them at home or in the end of year tour, but to ask to make your debut against the likes of the Aussies and AB is a big a ask.

Alberts for me is a fantastic ball carrier and great defender, the type of player that can swing the momentum of the game. I also wonder whether plumbers got it right when he moved Alberts to 4. The sharks really started to get momentum and things started to swing around for them. I don’t like the fact that your back three have to be the guys doing grafting in the back three. You have your tight five to do that. They have the body type and weight on their side. You need your back three that can get stuck in but also are able to be an extra back that can link between forwards and backs. You also need mobile and robust players that can get around the park and slow the opposition’s ball down. For me Brussouw had a fantastic 09 and hit has been a dam shame that we haven’t been able to produce more players of his type or have depth in that area.

At least it is good to see that he has dropped Faceplant Potgieter. I like Coetzee and see him more as an attacking 7, Vermeulen has the ball skills to get over the advantage line and off-load in the tackle or act as a pivot in broken play.

With Bekker misfiring perhaps Meyer should have gamble more and select the following starting 8.

1.       Beast

2.       Struass

3.       Jannie

4.       Alberts

5.       Estebeth

6.       Louw

7.       Coetzee

8.       Vermeulen

I also think that this combination could work for the boks with what we have in the squad

1.       Beast

2.       Liebenberg

3.       Jannie

4.       Estebeth

5.       Bekker

6.       Louw

7.       Coetzee

8.       Alberts / Vermeulen in the last 20 min

My thinking behind this is that Liebenberg is a solid scrummager, good thrower and has been playing with the Stormers locks for some time, not to mention the likes of Vermeulen and Louw which should give the boks plenty of line out options through out the match.

I just don’t think that Flip Flop or Juandre are up to scratch to compete at this level and shouldn’t even be considered. 

@kingcorn,

this forward pack u mentioned ,,,

1 beast, 2 a strauss, 3 j du plesiss, 4 w alberts, 5 e ezebeth, 6 f louw, 7 m coetzee, 8 d vermeulen

has a lot of promise IMO, but only against the wallabies, not the pumas or All Blacks, i would have also called up elsdatat and put him on the bench along with kruger or bekker, just to cover the bases.

the wallaby locks are not balnced IMO, with sharpe always playign hard and timani very green with only one good test cap to date, so playing alberts at lock does have tremendous bennifits, but against the All Blacks and hypothetically speaking the pumas, it wouldnt be so good, as they have great locks who play a more conventinal game and the Boks would want to match them there.

Louw in for Alberts. Alberts on the Bench.

Bekker on the bench instead of Flip

Lambie at 15. Don't mind Kirchner, but if Lambie is being taken advantage of with the high kick, replace him with Kirchner at half time.

Would still love to see goosen in at 10. I know he probably needs more time, but he just seems to me like one of those guys that can play anywhere, anytime, at any pace, no matter who he is playing with. He seems very adaptable, and improvises well. He's young, not scared of anything, and full of piss and vinegar.

I think Meyer is starting to see the writing on the wall.

 Hehe, Full of Piss and Vinegar you say Can :) very descriptive...Yes you might have a point, but just remember piss and vinegar cuts both ways, it can backfire spectacularly as well :)

Why would you replace ALbert with Louw, if anything I'll replace Coetzee with Louw. Bekker's back has some issues so I understand to leave hi out totally and see if he is ready for NZ next week.

Ek,

I actually don't mind Coetzee. Louw Could replace either Alberts or him if you really ask me. To be honest, wouldn't know the best combination as well as you and the other guys on here, but Either way I think Louw should be in there.

Bekker I understand, but I would prefer Elstadt to flip. Heck, gimme J Strauss off the bench. :P  I just don't think Flip should be wearing that jersey at all.

Ne1 who wnts to rplce Mrcl Ctzee is a rtrd who shldnt be tlkng abt rugby!!!